EPT[Hero] Razor - Page 2
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
I'm still mixed on how to build this hero. I'm tempted to try going drums/bracer, urn/bracer, aquila, wand, phase/treads though. I don't favor mek on this hero too much since his mana pool isn't too great and you won't be getting arcanes. | ||
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edgemega
United States239 Posts
In all, items on razor are very very flexible, although i would avoid BKB unless they have tons of aoe spells or your team really needs you to produce damage, since if you tank up and just eat stuns you throw out purges to everyone around you. and i would rarely get treads on razor unless you are so behind and just need all the hp you can since move speed is king on razor with his kit | ||
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wairai
Malaysia1000 Posts
Generally speaking tanky razor will allow this refresher or any luxury item to be blown out of proportion. His BAT is so meh compared to other AGI heroes. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On September 12 2013 03:12 TheYango wrote: This. Additionally, many of those lineups want you to have magic resistance more than magic immunity. It seems nonsensical, but here's why: When you become magic immune, those spells that the enemy would have cast at you don't go to waste. They get cast at someone else. In some lineups, this is fine, because there's someone else in the lineup who can take those nukes. But it's also frequently that those nukes/disables going on the other 4 heroes on your team ISN'T better than you just taking the hit--especially since you typically itemize a lot of survivability, have two spell effects that remain active while you're stunned regardless, and have a passive that punishes people for nuking you. Here's where you and I disagree - the reason BKB is almost necessary on Razor comes from the need to not be locked down during his tether. This hero is utterly dependent on having his tether be maximized to the point of absurdity, and good players will recognize the need to stun this hero as soon as tether is cast. If he can't get his tether to drain a decent amount of damage, his contribution to teamfights is diminished heavily (granted, yes Eye is still strong, and yes, plasma field is still strong, but weakening the enemy carry or just having a larger right click to use with the armor reduction of eye is so ridiculously important). While it does seem a waste to not maximize the strength of his E, and yes it is a very powerful ability that synergizes well with pipe and mek, I would argue having a more guaranteed tether is more important than synergizing his E. This isn't to say mek or pipe is bad on this hero, just that BKB should usually be considered a core item. It's something you usually will feel more ingame than talking about in a forum, but this hero really gets punished from not being able to use his mobility freely in fights. I also would argue scepter should be considered core as well. Also, you might want to consider that this hero's skill build is very different depending on the matchup he has in lane. Sometimes, you might need to max e over plasma field (ie. OD) | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
You can't put a blanket description of Razor's teamfight role over all teamcomps like that. It varies based on both teamcomps and the usefulness of BKB varies along with this. Yes it feels like it sucks when you can't move that freely around the teamfight and keep a strong link up, but in the context of your team's fighting ability as a whole, a lot of the time it's very reasonable to eat stuns for your team. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On September 14 2013 00:49 TheYango wrote: It depends on the game, Comeh. Sometimes the threat you create by tethering their carry is more important than the actual damage steal from the tether itself, and in certain lineups you need to utilize that to create space for your team, as opposed to blocking all opportunities to deal with you. Taking their carry out of the fight is not always stronger than making space for yours, depending on what the lineups are like. You can't put a blanket description of Razor's teamfight role over all teamcomps like that. It varies based on both teamcomps and the usefulness of BKB varies along with this. Yes it feels like it sucks when you can't move that freely around the teamfight and keep a strong link up, but in the context of your team's fighting ability as a whole, a lot of the time it's very reasonable to eat stuns for your team. Somewhat agreed, however a lot of the time if you can stun/slow razor (say a VS stun - not a big deal) and forcestaff his target, this takes away his tether - this isn't a significant investment in a teamfight (of good players) for the effect that it will have, and can pretty much neuter this hero pretty well. I just think in most situations, having a BKB gives more to the team, even if another hero eats a stun, than an item like a Pipe would give (razor is still somewhat vulnerable to right clicks if he can be locked down). I suppose there are situations where the other team has numerous through-bkb stuns (a bane, beastmaster, and batrider) where I WOULDNT get a BKB, but I think its pretty necessary to stay mobile and not locked down - this hero in many ways is about his mobility more than his tankiness. *shrug*. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 14 2013 01:12 Comeh wrote: Somewhat agreed, however a lot of the time if you can stun/slow razor (say a VS stun - not a big deal) and forcestaff his target, this takes away his tether - this isn't a significant investment in a teamfight (of good players) for the effect that it will have, and can pretty much neuter this hero pretty well. It makes a lot of assumptions about a particular fight when you're saying both that using a particular point-and-click stun is not a big deal, and that the enemy have a Force Staff available. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On September 14 2013 01:15 TheYango wrote: It makes a lot of assumptions about a particular fight when you're saying both that using a particular point-and-click stun is not a big deal, and that the enemy have a Force Staff available. Eh, that's probably true, but I just think this hero is really dependent on staying mobile in fights and not being locked down. As I said, I think its a bigger benefit for the team that he keeps tether active and he stays mobile than "soaking up stuns" from other team members Reasoning is several: 1. Staying mobile ensures his tether stays active, which means more right click. Obvious. 2. Removing damage from the other target helps the team out in the fight, and hurts that targets benefit from the fight. Obvious. 3. Being mobile means you can more effective use eye of the storm, but not that big of a deal because of the little amount of control you have over the spell. 4. This is hero is deceptively not tanky, and can fall victim to being focused after being stunned. Obviously mek and pipe alleviate this a bit, but I think he's more vulnerable from being locked down than from not having enough HP items. Just something i've felt as I played this hero. I'm repeating myself at this point, I just haven't been sold on Mek / Pipe for him. Probably won't be convinced either way, if it matters Yango  . just offering my point of view. | ||
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roronoe
Canada1527 Posts
1. When do you build aquila? I see sometimes people leave it as a basi ring instead. 2. If you go mid, what situations would you get a bottle and when would you not? 3. Do you generally finish mek before getting phase/treads or would you finish tier 2 boots first? Im not too familiar with the skill build yet either, but I'm sure I'll get a better sense of it with more experience. | ||
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
aquilla helps if you are being contested for last hits and need the bonus damage. basi better in uncontested safe lane for pushing the teir1 early if thats what you need to do. bottle is good if you are trading a lot of hits with the other mid or if you need to push waves with Q to keep rune control. I like bottle on mid razor a lot. this is also matchup dependant, sometimes you need the extra boost of MS to get a full static link off and dominate the lane that way. Sometimes you can just sit on brown boots and get an earlier mek for faster objectives. Depends on your team comp and the goals you have. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On September 03 2014 05:22 roronoe wrote: Just started learning this hero and I have a few questions regarding the item builds. I know the general progression of mek -> aghs. 1. When do you build aquila? I see sometimes people leave it as a basi ring instead. 2. If you go mid, what situations would you get a bottle and when would you not? 3. Do you generally finish mek before getting phase/treads or would you finish tier 2 boots first? Im not too familiar with the skill build yet either, but I'm sure I'll get a better sense of it with more experience. You don't need aquila as mid. Bottle is enough for your regen, and it is a necessity at mid. No need to delay your mek with it. If in an uncontested lane, finish mek first. Otherwise complete your phase. Skill build wise, link is the only reason why razor is a good solo. You should skill it at level 1. Whether to max it first or not is dependent on the lane. Same goes for his other skills. In general you max either nuke or link first. If against od, you can skip nuke until later. No reason to be retarded like mushi and not skilling ulti for so long. | ||
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findingthelimit
Hong Kong219 Posts
How should I optimize building razor for pub games, where I can't coordinate a push sub-30 minutes? Midas seems overkill, and fata sure didn't seem to have trouble farming with him, are there any efficiency tricks I can add to my belt while grinding this hero? | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
you want to always be bullying with this hero and that often requires grouping with 3-5 people after the laning stage when you cant anymore you farm hard with q and ult until you get enough big items to start grouping again | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
Also yes, pop ult for farming all the time you're in the jungle. His ulti, especially non-Agh, doesnt really do that much damage in fights. Yes sure you're gonna end up with it on CD once or twice in fights if you do it, but its very rarely thats the difference between a won or lost fight. Him getting a 15sec link or 2sec link is what makes or breaks his teamfight contribution. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
not that the mek build is bad, but just that I don't trust my teammates to take advantage of it when I could have done something else instead. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
I personally prefer treads for the extra attack speed to go with the damage you naturally accumulate throughout the course of a fight, drums or not. aren't the new phase boots kinda so-so for ranged heroes anyway? | ||
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