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On July 27 2014 12:48 NeoRussia wrote:
You don't need that much farm on legion, just a moderately fast blink and levels. LC does not care if she shoves the wave because she just zones out 3 heroes by doing more than 300 damage to them every 18 seconds. Then she tower dives and slays them all. LC is basically axe but does not get countered by ranged heroes.
the hardest part of offlane is the first 5 minutes, and legion has 0 tools to survive that aside from a small burst heal. For example if the enemy safelane is void/skywrath+1, the skywrath will stand way in front of the wave and spam your face, keeping you far away from the wave. the +1 will pull/double pull, and if the void has any sense of lane control, you are in bad news town and need to jungle recover immediately.
unless you are at the level where any hero can offlane, you could use the same argument for shadow fiend off lane, or tiny off lane.
i just don't see any situation where a legion would be allowed to get levels or farm by any competent tri lane, or even most decent dual lanes.
she's a good solo laner, put her mid
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well i guess 320 base movement and the movement buff from OO might give her more survivability than I originally thought, so i'll give you guys that much. but still, she doesn't have offlane tools unless they are shoving your tower, which is not what trilanes are for.
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So I've been practicing against bots with LC and today I played my first game (unranked) and managed to go 21-5-11.
My build is to go: PMS>QB>sage mask>brown boots>armlet>blink>BKB>BoT>AC.
I've seen two popular items with her, and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around them. Power treads and blademail. Armlet seems like a far greater item for her. You get the HP bonus from its active and it gives you attack speed and armor and regen. And it takes up one slot.
So why are people prioritizing bladmail and power treads? For the return active and the measly movement speed?
Sorry if I'm coming off as an ass, I'm just genuinely curious.
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I don't like QB on any non-hard carry heroes unless its specific rare situations, pms and sage's mask are a waste of item slots because you won't have many with those. I dislike armlet, typically blademail is what I follow blink with, its probably better than any other early game item. BKB is unneeded I like heart better because heart blademail makes you basically untargetable in duel when your teammates follow up, I don't really get any hp items other than treads and the occasional drums until heart which comes usually after AC. Medallion or halberd against linken's sphere buyers. I have not experimented much with armlet phase build, but the times I've tried it, it was simply not as good as treads blademail. The only other item I really get is mjollnir/maelstrom, its what you get when you are snowballing, soul ring for offlane and bottle for mid. Also shadowblade sucks cause you usually can't land SB hit, press the attack, blademail, then duel all at the same time without the enemy responding after your shadow blade attack.
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Treads are the most cost-effective DPS item in their price bracket given that I already have brown boots. As an added bonus, Treads switching means my Basi flat mana regen goes further.
Also, QB is fine if you can't consistently last hit at level 1 without it but bad if you can't consistently last hit with it.
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On August 05 2014 14:36 NeoRussia wrote:
I don't like QB on any non-hard carry heroes unless its specific rare situations, pms and sage's mask are a waste of item slots because you won't have many with those. I dislike armlet, typically blademail is what I follow blink with, its probably better than any other early game item. BKB is unneeded I like heart better because heart blademail makes you basically untargetable in duel when your teammates follow up, I don't really get any hp items other than treads and the occasional drums until heart which comes usually after AC. Medallion or halberd against linken's sphere buyers. I have not experimented much with armlet phase build, but the times I've tried it, it was simply not as good as treads blademail. The only other item I really get is mjollnir/maelstrom, its what you get when you are snowballing, soul ring for offlane and bottle for mid. Also shadowblade sucks cause you usually can't land SB hit, press the attack, blademail, then duel all at the same time without the enemy responding after your shadow blade attack.
You don't need any items before blink on lc. No need for HP no need for damage. You just need to use blink to help gank, which gets you a few successful duels. It also gets you gold, which you spend on items that allow you to solo kill targets. After that you spend on bkb so that you can do so in the midst of teamfights. Really you don't need armlet before blink at all. You can even go stout qb blink before boots.
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-Yeah QB is really more for junglers or straight ricers/split pushers. LC already has great base damage, you shouldn't need QB to last hit.
-An early ring of Basi is also a great laning item for LC too, and can turn into a lot of useful items for LC like Medallion, Urn, or Vlads.
-Speaking of which, am I the only one who builds support items on LC? I really like going Basi -> Vlads after Blink. Mana regen is always nice early for LC and you're going to need assistance to kill targets during duel ganks early on, so Vlads becomes very cost effective and it scales into late game. IMO it is far superior timing item than Armlet for LC. I feel Armlet is simply built way too often on LC. Late game I then build into AC.
-Medallion is also very nice alternative if you need something even cheaper/quicker and opens up some fast Roshan shenanigans. Medallion is pretty nice for its flexibility to either stay tanky with the armor or use the active to try to down someone in duel faster.
-I'm not a fan of Phase Boots on LC. You already have a built in chase with OO and Treads makes her tankier along with the DPS. I always tend to build her more tanky after Blink instead of DPS as her DPS is naturally going to build up from her ult regardless.
-I not a huge Blademail fan, but I admittedly having experimented with it too much. Using it as an alternative to BKB is interesting concept.
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After playing LC for like 500 games in the 5k+ bracket...
LC is garbage in the offlane, is an extremely timing dependent hero and putting her in the offlane slows down alot of her timings. You want to have the safe lane or mid lane (preferably mid). She is much stronger in mid than given credit for, and can easily bully around alot of the weaker heroes in lane that have lower hp pools. Puck/QoP/Storm/etc. in theory should beat her, but most players are not familiar with the match-up against LC and end up eating a few MoCs and OOOs and run out of regen quick and will pretty much flat out lose the lane or die. Not to mention bottle crowing with LC makes your opponent want to rage out especially if you're building her correctly (1 MoC, Max OOO, then Max PTA)
Treads/Blink should be your first few items, they give you map presence and scares the opposing team into community farming. Immediately following blink you build Maelstrom, period, pretty much 100% of the time unless you are severely behind. It is by far the most cost efficient item on LC. It gives you attack speed, damage, a lightning proc that also procs during duels/MoCs, and is an easy and cheap build-up. BKB is a dick bad 2nd item; LC is a 100% snowball reliant hero, and BKB does nothing to assist you in this endeavor. You should never duel a carry until way later in the game anyways. Most of the time you can easily hit a 30 minute window where you'll have Treads/Blink/Maelstrom/BKB anyways.
Later pick ups should be Mjoll/AC/BKB. Finish off with a Heart/BoTs if necessary. LC thrives heavily on attack speed, so pick up as much as you can. Armlet is cool and all, but seriously, Maelstrom is the same cost and just straight up better from an overall cost standpoint. Armlet is much more efficient as a singular item, but Maelstrom makes farming alot easier and allows you to reach other items quicker. Basically it makes you less dependent on kills and shit. Not to mention, the more duels you get, the stronger Mjoll/Maelstrom is due to how flat damage/aspd scaling works.
If you are forced into the jungle by your team they are dumb as shit. Basically your game is make or break on your 8 minuteish blink. From the mid/safe lane, you can play her as a tempo hero with levels because you're leveling OOO which is basically one of the best non-ultimate teamfight spells in the game. With a shit ton of creeps/units around heroes, you're doing like Echo Slam levels of damage (500+) in a huge AoE. In the offlane she can be ok but it has to be a weaker dual lane, otherwise you'll get shut out of the lane and you will have no way to recover.
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I suppose I should respond to that post, and SQSA thread feedback, by sharing my 'jungle b' laning strategy for Radiant. I don't have large enough sample to be confident in the results, but the pure timings appear to work out. Legion commander is notionally a trilane support here but spends most of her time in jungle.
0:53 - Stack outer medium camp
For X=1 to X=5
X:13 - X:48 - Pullthrough
X:53 - Stack the hard camp near the pullthrough (I fail an average of one stack here)
5:53 (or level 5) - Clear hard camp stack with Overwhelming Odds then return to base for mana/hp refill.
7:00 - smoke gank the XP starved offlaner or any exposed hero.
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On August 06 2014 03:12 superstartran wrote:
After playing LC for like 500 games in the 5k+ bracket...
LC is garbage in the offlane, is an extremely timing dependent hero and putting her in the offlane slows down alot of her timings. You want to have the safe lane or mid lane (preferably mid). She is much stronger in mid than given credit for, and can easily bully around alot of the weaker heroes in lane that have lower hp pools. Puck/QoP/Storm/etc. in theory should beat her, but most players are not familiar with the match-up against LC and end up eating a few MoCs and OOOs and run out of regen quick and will pretty much flat out lose the lane or die. Not to mention bottle crowing with LC makes your opponent want to rage out especially if you're building her correctly (1 MoC, Max OOO, then Max PTA)
Treads/Blink should be your first few items, they give you map presence and scares the opposing team into community farming. Immediately following blink you build Maelstrom, period, pretty much 100% of the time unless you are severely behind. It is by far the most cost efficient item on LC. It gives you attack speed, damage, a lightning proc that also procs during duels/MoCs, and is an easy and cheap build-up. BKB is a dick bad 2nd item; LC is a 100% snowball reliant hero, and BKB does nothing to assist you in this endeavor. You should never duel a carry until way later in the game anyways. Most of the time you can easily hit a 30 minute window where you'll have Treads/Blink/Maelstrom/BKB anyways.
Later pick ups should be Mjoll/AC/BKB. Finish off with a Heart/BoTs if necessary. LC thrives heavily on attack speed, so pick up as much as you can. Armlet is cool and all, but seriously, Maelstrom is the same cost and just straight up better from an overall cost standpoint. Armlet is much more efficient as a singular item, but Maelstrom makes farming alot easier and allows you to reach other items quicker. Basically it makes you less dependent on kills and shit. Not to mention, the more duels you get, the stronger Mjoll/Maelstrom is due to how flat damage/aspd scaling works.
If you are forced into the jungle by your team they are dumb as shit. Basically your game is make or break on your 8 minuteish blink. From the mid/safe lane, you can play her as a tempo hero with levels because you're leveling OOO which is basically one of the best non-ultimate teamfight spells in the game. With a shit ton of creeps/units around heroes, you're doing like Echo Slam levels of damage (500+) in a huge AoE. In the offlane she can be ok but it has to be a weaker dual lane, otherwise you'll get shut out of the lane and you will have no way to recover.
i pretty much agree with this 100%
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On August 06 2014 04:05 Buckyman wrote:
I suppose I should respond to that post, and SQSA thread feedback, by sharing my 'jungle b' laning strategy for Radiant. I don't have large enough sample to be confident in the results, but the pure timings appear to work out. Legion commander is notionally a trilane support here but spends most of her time in jungle.
0:53 - Stack outer medium camp
For X=1 to X=5
X:13 - X:48 - Pullthrough
X:53 - Stack the hard camp near the pullthrough (I fail an average of one stack here)
5:53 (or level 5) - Clear hard camp stack with Overwhelming Odds then return to base for mana/hp refill.
7:00 - smoke gank the XP starved offlaner or any exposed hero.
The problem with LC from the jungle is that she becomes a glorified shitty version of Batrider that can sorta scale if she gets out of control. The issue with LC jungle is that you're ignoring a fast level 4 OOO timing which is pretty much the best non-ultimate nuke in teamfights early in the game. If you force 3-4 people to TP and you hit a level 4 OOO early, you autowin that fight due to how much damage OOO does. It's pretty stupid IMO to jungle her because if your first two ganks go bad, you're way behind and suddenly useless for the rest of the game outside of your one buff (which is a good buff, don't get me wrong, but it's still not enough to pick her solely for that).
LC is most dangerous is if she gets ahead and reaches late game with +150 dmg. At this point, she can basically duel supports for free damage and it just gets exponentially way crazier. I've had games that went 50-60+ minutes and I would have like 300+ damage and I would just absolutely obliterate carries.
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Me and my brother did some experimenting in playing her as like a 4th position togheter with drow. It worked out quite well, since PtA is really good on drow and as soon as both hit 6, the enemey need to commit alot of heroes to stop their push/make sure LC doesn't get alot of free duel wins. Besides, LC dueling someone usually makes people focus her so drow can just have free reign dishing out her DPS. Think the build on LC was something like blink into mek.
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On August 06 2014 03:12 superstartran wrote:
After playing LC for like 500 games in the 5k+ bracket...
LC is garbage in the offlane, is an extremely timing dependent hero and putting her in the offlane slows down alot of her timings. You want to have the safe lane or mid lane (preferably mid). She is much stronger in mid than given credit for, and can easily bully around alot of the weaker heroes in lane that have lower hp pools. Puck/QoP/Storm/etc. in theory should beat her, but most players are not familiar with the match-up against LC and end up eating a few MoCs and OOOs and run out of regen quick and will pretty much flat out lose the lane or die. Not to mention bottle crowing with LC makes your opponent want to rage out especially if you're building her correctly (1 MoC, Max OOO, then Max PTA)
Treads/Blink should be your first few items, they give you map presence and scares the opposing team into community farming. Immediately following blink you build Maelstrom, period, pretty much 100% of the time unless you are severely behind. It is by far the most cost efficient item on LC. It gives you attack speed, damage, a lightning proc that also procs during duels/MoCs, and is an easy and cheap build-up. BKB is a dick bad 2nd item; LC is a 100% snowball reliant hero, and BKB does nothing to assist you in this endeavor. You should never duel a carry until way later in the game anyways. Most of the time you can easily hit a 30 minute window where you'll have Treads/Blink/Maelstrom/BKB anyways.
Later pick ups should be Mjoll/AC/BKB. Finish off with a Heart/BoTs if necessary. LC thrives heavily on attack speed, so pick up as much as you can. Armlet is cool and all, but seriously, Maelstrom is the same cost and just straight up better from an overall cost standpoint. Armlet is much more efficient as a singular item, but Maelstrom makes farming alot easier and allows you to reach other items quicker. Basically it makes you less dependent on kills and shit. Not to mention, the more duels you get, the stronger Mjoll/Maelstrom is due to how flat damage/aspd scaling works.
If you are forced into the jungle by your team they are dumb as shit. Basically your game is make or break on your 8 minuteish blink. From the mid/safe lane, you can play her as a tempo hero with levels because you're leveling OOO which is basically one of the best non-ultimate teamfight spells in the game. With a shit ton of creeps/units around heroes, you're doing like Echo Slam levels of damage (500+) in a huge AoE. In the offlane she can be ok but it has to be a weaker dual lane, otherwise you'll get shut out of the lane and you will have no way to recover.
Thanks a lot for your help! If you can't go mid is sage mask a bad item for her?
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Your mana costs are relatively low and your CDs are fairly long, and LC has a pretty good Int gain. I don't think you really need a mana item on her, although I suppose Basi or a Sobi would give her a lot of sustain due.
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soul ring for offlane and bottle for mid. Medallion and blademail both give mana and are good items on her.
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On August 06 2014 11:37 NeoRussia wrote:
soul ring for offlane and bottle for mid. Medallion and blademail both give mana and are good items on her.
I hate Medallion on her and Blademail is extremely situational.
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Her INT gain is pretty sick for a STR semi-carry and her mana costs aren't really prohibitive at mid-game.
I'm pretty sure you don't really need another mana item outside of bottle or soul ring, tbh. After blink you can get a (BKB somewhere or Mael if you can easily nuke someone down with PtA/MoC) Desolator or AC in whatever order to tank you up or just go for those duel kills easier, but AC helps with both but you can do some clowny shit for pushing with deso. If you're looking to counter a high DPS hero, sure, blademail's active and damage can be decent but you should rly only get it for the active before you need the armour and especially the INT.
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Super(man)startran, whats your opinion about a sange after boots+blink for a mid/late halberd?
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On August 07 2014 05:43 govie wrote:
Super(man)startran, whats your opinion about a sange after boots+blink for a mid/late halberd?
I stick to tried and true glass cannon LC. Halbred is useless since Duel purges it off from what I remember (I never buy the item on her so I don't remember if it is still this way), and you don't get Evasion while you are dueling.
It's just a bad item in general on her. Your most cost effective items are blink, Maelstrom, bkb, and armlet. I prefer Maelstrom over Armlet for various reasons, mostly because proccing multiple Lightnings with Autos/MoC is just absolutely devastating.
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EPT
