EPT[Hero] Legion Commander - Page 13
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On August 07 2014 11:11 TheYango wrote: Duel doesn't purge Halberd's debuff, but all effects that prevent attacking during Duel are overridden by Duel (as in, if you Halberded someone near the end of Duel, they would continue to attack during the Duel, but the Disarm would still be active as the Duel ended). Well yeah but that kind of defeats the purpose of the Duel, because during a Duel you wanna kill the character as quickly as possible. Mostly I'll be targetting supports anyways in the early to mid game, and then switch over and kill off enemy carries particularly ones like Void that rely on their passive to survive end game fights. So in a sense it's not 'purging' but it's pretty useless anyways. You don't get the Evasion during duels and you can't disarm them (in a technical sense). | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On August 09 2014 02:32 Skyro wrote: What about if you are your team's initiator? You can't build glass in that case. Do you go for Vanguard so you can immediately push towers after ganks/teamfights? Ur innately tanky with a good heal. If you feel the need for raw HP you can go armlet or sange (both of which are pretty meh) or BKB. Sange would build best into SnY imo. Vanguard is, as always, FUKKIN AWFUL. Vanguard doesn't help u push towers lmao if u wanna push u actually need a mana item to spam waves with Odds. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On August 09 2014 02:32 Skyro wrote: What about if you are your team's initiator? You can't build glass in that case. Do you go for Vanguard so you can immediately push towers after ganks/teamfights? LC is surprisingly much tankier than given credit for. Between her stat gains, press the attack, and MoC + wand, it's actually incredibly difficult to kill her if you don't burst her down instantly. Maelstrom is just way 2gud on her to not get. Like, it's legitimately one of the most cost efficient items in the game, and it just makes it 100x easier for LC to farm. Not to mention, it's one of the few items that procs during MoC, so you can do crazy amounts of damage if you get lucky procs. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
And OO is on an 18s CD, it's not spammable. Besides I meant in the context of 'win gank/teamfight', immediately punish tower, not split pushing or whatever you are trying to say here. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On August 09 2014 02:58 Skyro wrote: Obviously I meant for the purpose of tanking tower damage/creeps (like Axe). And LC feels pretty damn glassy to me if you are your team's initiator since you're rushing Blink as well unless you have follow-up initiation from your team that can keep you from being immediately blown up. And OO is on an 18s CD, it's not spammable. Besides I meant in the context of 'win gank/teamfight', immediately punish tower, not split pushing or whatever you are trying to say here. You don't initiate with LC, you play her as an assassin and use the blink to jump weaker heroes. It's actually incredibly bad to initiate as LC for the reasons you listed. The only time you should be playing intiator is if you have a big AoE ult backing you up like Ravage or Chaotic Offering. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On August 09 2014 02:57 superstartran wrote: LC is surprisingly much tankier than given credit for. Between her stat gains, press the attack, and MoC + wand, it's actually incredibly difficult to kill her if you don't burst her down instantly. Maelstrom is just way 2gud on her to not get. Like, it's legitimately one of the most cost efficient items in the game, and it just makes it 100x easier for LC to farm. Not to mention, it's one of the few items that procs during MoC, so you can do crazy amounts of damage if you get lucky procs. So you still build glassy even if you are your team's initiator? Is the team coordination just high enough at 5k+ MMR that the follow up initiation is enough to keep you alive? | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On August 09 2014 03:00 superstartran wrote: You don't initiate with LC, you play her as an assassin and use the blink to jump weaker heroes. It's actually incredibly bad to initiate as LC for the reasons you listed. The only time you should be playing intiator is if you have a big AoE ult backing you up like Ravage or Chaotic Offering. Yeah I know I was saying if you are essentially your team's only initiator. I know that's not optimal but I'm sure you've run into occasions where that was the case. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On August 09 2014 03:01 Skyro wrote: Yeah I know I was saying if you are essentially your team's only initiator. I know that's not optimal but I'm sure you've run into occasions where that was the case. Most of the time your offlaner is your initiator of some sort. Darkseer, Tide, Panda, w/e it is. Unless your team went ultra greedy, you should not be the initiation of the team. If you are, you need to counter-initiate and not go on the opposing team until they engage. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On August 09 2014 03:07 Skyro wrote: Hm ok. So in your opinion it's basically never worth it to try to build her as an initiator at all unless you have very strong follow up initiation. Thanks. No, you always build blink on her, it's so easy to kite her without it. The issue is that you can't be stupid and blink into the opposing team and expect your team to help out, especially if they don't have the tools to back you up. If you don't have a big aoe follow up, do not initiate ever. You can get stunned, hexed, etc. too easily. If VS/SD/OD are on the other team you will also be very sad. Wait until the fight starts, then go in and duel a hero. The only time you should initiate is in ultra late game situations when you have BKB + shit tons of damage and you are certain you can kill the hero in 2-3 seconds (assuming you have no AoE back-up). In terms of ganks and shit, obviously go in and duel immediately if you can get easy pick offs. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On August 09 2014 05:27 TheYango wrote: I'd argue that your 10s BKB Duel can be used to initiate in certain games, particularly because there are a lot of lineups where if you Duel 1 guy with your 10s BKB going the others can't do shit about you. But that's pretty situational and lineup dependent. That's an extremely rare situation. The only time I do that (as in 2nd BKB item) is if I have to lock down something like Tide and they don't have BKB piercing disables. It does happen from time to time, but most of time you will see lame heroes like Batrider/Bane/Beastmaster/insert other lame BKB piercing disable hero. Not to mention other heroes make it a nightmare for you to duel people, like OD/VS/SD. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On August 09 2014 08:08 Nightmarjoo wrote: Is there math that supports treads over phase? My gut instinct was always that she has two as buffs already, and that her passive made the damage count more. Treads is obviously nice for straight-up fights once she has bonus damage, but shouldn't her opening items maximize early duel potential? Treads ASPD scales nicely with her mid to late game damage (the more duel damage she gets, the better treads becomes) and the ability to tread switch while using bottle/soulring/press the attack makes it a much more viable option. Chasing shouldn't be a problem when you have blink dagger, and not to mention I'm pretty sure MoC animation finishes faster with aspd (I haven't actually fully ever tested this out, it's just from what I've seen from actual play), which means more autos during duels, etc. Treads in general is just a better option overall due to the utility you get from it and how it scales better later on. Phase gives you extra oomph damage early and some chasing power, but it drops off quickly. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 09 2014 08:10 superstartran wrote: I'm pretty sure MoC animation finishes faster with aspd (I haven't actually fully ever tested this out, it's just from what I've seen from actual play), which means more autos during duels, etc. It does finish faster but it doesn't benefit the scenario you're describing because MoC attacks don't function off your normal autoattack timer. The MoC attack doesn't change or interrupt when your next attack would normally come, so you're not gaining more benefit from it by having AS. | ||
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