How to get out of super low mmr ranked?

On January 29 2014 07:43 BallinWitStalin wrote:
Check out Kwark's guide to jungle lycan. At low levels it's pretty damn good, I've single-handedly won ton of games using it. Pubs are typically not co-ordinated enough to stop strong solo pushers, so as long as you understand counter/split pushing, you're probably going to do okay.

On January 29 2014 08:26 Sn0_Man wrote:
Kills Deaths and CS do not determine the outcome of Dota games.

On January 29 2014 07:58 Sn0_Man wrote:
There are 2 possibilities here:

Possibility one: you are around as good as your party mmr. You should win solo games pretty easily regardless of how bad your allies are because your enemies suck.

Possibility two: you are around as good as your solo mmr. You should break even on solo games because you aren't actually better than your allies or your opponents. This would imply that you got carried to your party mmr.

Based on the situation you are describing (can't win consistently in solo), option 2 seems vastly more likely.

On January 29 2014 09:25 Ayaz2810 wrote:
If you're in MMR hell, your teammates could feed the opposing carries relentlessly to the point that you can't kill them anymore.

On January 29 2014 09:25 Ayaz2810 wrote:


Not sure I completely agree. If you're in MMR hell, your teammates could feed the opposing carries relentlessly to the point that you can't kill them anymore. Or, your teammates will be so uncoordinated that they don't help you fight and you get smashed. Or, your teammates don't help push, they afk jungle farm, or any other of a dozen scenarios that will completely fuck you over. None of which you have any control over. That's what I tend to run into @2600 MMR. People just running around doing whatever the hell they want while screaming at you in not-english while you try to win a 1v5 game. It's not as easy to win games like that as people make it sound.

On January 29 2014 13:14 crc wrote:
I'm in a slightly different situation. I've been watching dota 2 for ages, but only started playing recently. So I have all these theories in my head about things like what heroes in what lane, who goes well together, dynamics of split pushing, gank timings, etc. But in low MMR games, no one cares/knows these things. Should I be bossing everyone around? Like ordering mid to gank the offlane, forcing tri-lanes to happen, telling people to smoke gank, etc. Or let everyone play the natural game they are comfortable with and do with my hero what I know is best? How do I get out of low MMR?

On January 29 2014 13:14 crc wrote:
I'm in a slightly different situation. I've been watching dota 2 for ages, but only started playing recently. So I have all these theories in my head about things like what heroes in what lane, who goes well together, dynamics of split pushing, gank timings, etc. But in low MMR games, no one cares/knows these things. Should I be bossing everyone around? Like ordering mid to gank the offlane, forcing tri-lanes to happen, telling people to smoke gank, etc. Or let everyone play the natural game they are comfortable with and do with my hero what I know is best? How do I get out of low MMR?

On January 29 2014 15:10 KUNGJAH wrote:
im at 4.3k and whenever i lose its due to getting these incredibly stupid teammates that makes whatever stupid decision ranging from picks,items,ingame decisions. im 100% sure i could hang at 5k-5.5k mmr but there is no way to climb there having to play with these people. 1 dude cannot carry a game of dota like you guys make it sound. the mmr tries to keep you at 50% win and its doing a pretty damn good job matching you up with complete morons whenever you win 100-200 rating to bring you down again



edit: saw the post above me and to clarify obviously i make mistakes sometimes aswell, everyone does but its just unreal the kind of people im getting matched with. ive played for like 2-3 days now when my gf was working and i go +- 0 everytime i logg off.

On January 29 2014 16:23 ZerG~LegenD wrote:
Got calibrated in at 4.7k and never really played played much solo after that. Decided to give it a try last week by playing only my best hero, taking breaks between games and trying to be really, really focused on the game. Got ~80% winrate and I'm up to 5.1k now.

I think you need to be good at communicating with and leading your team in order to be successful in solo queue. Do everything you can to foster a good team spirit and then try to provide some direction. Avoiding a bad team fight can be game changing, but most of the time someone has to take the initiative to pull back. Also, items like smokes, wards and flying courier are insanely price-worthy. If the support isn't getting them you should even if you're playing mid or carry. Asking nicely once or twice first might be worth it but there comes a point where you're just being annoying and hurting your team. And whatever you do, never ever rage or blame someone else in chat.

Sometimes you lose but if you just move on your wins will come. However, if you go on tilt you'll drag your team down and will likely keep losing. Of course how well you play your hero individually matters a lot as well, but I think a lot of people focus too much on that part. You can boost your rating by quite a bit by just being nice to your team mates and taking their needs into consideration. Even a bad void can carry the game if you secure three early kills on his lane, and if he's 500 gold away from completing his bkb you should know that and try to not force a fight.

On January 29 2014 16:44 Tobberoth wrote:
Best way to play: Assume everyone is good, but play as if they are just acceptable. Mute people who bad mouth immediately, never join in. Don't write in chat unless you have something good or useful to say. If you see someone doing something stupid, always assume they just had a temporary brain AFK, or that they are really tired or something. Just thinking "This dude sucks" quickly makes the game terrible.

On January 29 2014 16:44 Tobberoth wrote:

Such great advice, I really think a big reason people are doing worse than they should is the fact that they judge their allies harshly and then start to rage at them, breaking the team down. It's so easy to check items on one of your allies 10 minutes in, disapprove of a choice they made, and then have a bad image of them the whole game, every single mistake they do seems like game-losing level terribleness. I'm sure most people have been in that position themselves, such as when you have very good K/D/A, you've done several successful ganks, you've set up tons of wards etc... then you make a slight misclick and suddenly everyone hates on you. That's the problem with Dota, people are blind and only see mistakes, only criticize.

Best way to play: Assume everyone is good, but play as if they are just acceptable. Mute people who bad mouth immediately, never join in. Don't write in chat unless you have something good or useful to say. If you see someone doing something stupid, always assume they just had a temporary brain AFK, or that they are really tired or something. Just thinking "This dude sucks" quickly makes the game terrible.

On January 29 2014 09:22 AndyJay wrote:
This is what happens when a 5k player solo queues on a 3.5k account. http://dotabuff.com/players/110289963/matches

Compare and contrast with your own match history.

On January 29 2014 18:30 Zealos wrote:

Holy hell, thats a pretty convincing argument ^.^

On January 29 2014 18:30 Zealos wrote:

Holy hell, thats a pretty convincing argument ^.^

On January 29 2014 13:14 crc wrote:
I'm in a slightly different situation. I've been watching dota 2 for ages, but only started playing recently. So I have all these theories in my head about things like what heroes in what lane, who goes well together, dynamics of split pushing, gank timings, etc. But in low MMR games, no one cares/knows these things. Should I be bossing everyone around? Like ordering mid to gank the offlane, forcing tri-lanes to happen, telling people to smoke gank, etc. Or let everyone play the natural game they are comfortable with and do with my hero what I know is best? How do I get out of low MMR?

On January 29 2014 13:14 crc wrote:
I'm in a slightly different situation. I've been watching dota 2 for ages, but only started playing recently. So I have all these theories in my head about things like what heroes in what lane, who goes well together, dynamics of split pushing, gank timings, etc. But in low MMR games, no one cares/knows these things. Should I be bossing everyone around? Like ordering mid to gank the offlane, forcing tri-lanes to happen, telling people to smoke gank, etc. Or let everyone play the natural game they are comfortable with and do with my hero what I know is best? How do I get out of low MMR?

On January 29 2014 16:18 Tobberoth wrote:

You are showing signs of the same misunderstanding as people who claim to be in MMR/ELO hell, which is rare in people with decent rating (and 4,3k is more than decent, no matter what classic TL elitists would say).

You are right, you can't carry every game yourself, sometimes you get dumb people or trolls and there's literally nothing you can do, no matter how well you play. However, that's not every game. It's not every second game. It happens, from time to time, and it happens just as often to everyone else at your MMR. Other people can advance, there's nothing special about your position and you're not being paired with worse people than anyone else. Over the longer term, it IS up to your skill. Make a good impact on every game where your allies aren't morons/trolls, and you'll get way more than 50% win ratio. If you really think you get morons/trolls more than 50% of your games, you are definitely overestimating your own ability.

There's no such thing as MMR/ELO hell, unless you're specifically talking about games being unenjoyable because of terrible allies/opponents.

On January 29 2014 07:58 Sn0_Man wrote:
Possibility one: you are around as good as your party mmr. You should win solo games pretty easily regardless of how bad your allies are because your enemies suck.

On January 29 2014 20:55 ZerG~LegenD wrote:


Swiftending is a 5.6k player though, and the account he's using started out on 2.9k. The difference is enormous. It will be interesting to see what wr he can maintain when he reaches 4.5k and 5k - he's at 3.8 right now. I think he'll still manage 70% but who knows.

On January 29 2014 22:11 Tobberoth wrote:

Bossing people around never leads to good games. These people are trying to enjoy a game, they did not sign up for a teacher. In low MMR, you don't try to use advanced pro tactics, that doesn't work. What you do, is pub stomp. Pick a hero with a lot of impact, win your lane, then transfer your advantage to your teammates. For example, pick viper mid, get a kill or two, then gank the crap out of the other lanes.

Just like in SC2, you don't tell a bronze player to learn massive macro and drop micro to get to silver, you teach him basic macro and a-moving. Fundamentals rock the crap our of strategy and fancy plays.

On January 29 2014 23:31 Rhyme wrote:
is Elo Hell whining a reportable offense in this forum?

On January 29 2014 23:24 KUNGJAH wrote:



im pretty sure if i was at 5k-5.5k i would maintain a higher winrate than at 4k so obviously its kind of a mmr hell if i cant advance. dota is not some advanced game where you need super high skill to play at higher rating. the better people you play with the better winrate you will have if you have good/basic understanding of dota.

On January 29 2014 23:24 KUNGJAH wrote:
im pretty sure if i was at 5k-5.5k i would maintain a higher winrate than at 4k so obviously its kind of a mmr hell if i cant advance. dota is not some advanced game where you need super high skill to play at higher rating. the better people you play with the better winrate you will have if you have good/basic understanding of dota.

On January 30 2014 01:26 Tobberoth wrote:

No, the better people you play with, the better your opposition. The rest of the people in the game are paired with your MMR, you are the varying factor. It's up to you to be better and push your winrate up, if you suck and play with good people, all you're doing is lowering their winrate, yours will not improve since you're being a burden to your team instead of a carry.

Take two equal teams. Take a player in team A and exchange him for a much better player. Now which team will most likely win? You have to be that player.

On January 30 2014 01:36 nojok wrote:
Why pay when you can instalock earthspirit? Only few days left!

On January 30 2014 01:27 Laurens wrote:
I'm surprised you haven't offered Alur's boosting service yet :D

OP, I'll gladly powerlevel your account for the cheap prize of 10 rares / 100 MMR gained.

On January 30 2014 05:47 Alur wrote:

I've yet to get any customers, yet Ryze is actually getting customers while being a hundred times more expensive. I need to fire my marketing team.

On January 30 2014 05:54 ZerG~LegenD wrote:

Ryze is actually getting customers? Wow. That's just ridiculous imo.

On January 29 2014 11:13 emythrel wrote:
Well i think I finally have proof that winrate doesn't matter..... new account 63-38 win/loss or 62% winrate. My MMR on this account? Almost the exact same as my 48% winrate main account with 1000 games. So either its just taking me a while to up my MMR or it really is somewhat independent of winrate. My most recent page on dotabuff is 14-6 win/loss so in my last 20 games I have 70% winrate and my MMR barely went up in that time.

On January 29 2014 07:43 BallinWitStalin wrote:
If you're better than where you are, pick a ganking snowball hero or a team-mate independent pushing hero (e.g. lycan or np) and go to town.

As long as you get a wr above 50%, you will progress. If you don't, you're probably where you should be.

Check out Kwark's guide to jungle lycan. At low levels it's pretty damn good, I've single-handedly won ton of games using it. Pubs are typically not co-ordinated enough to stop strong solo pushers, so as long as you understand counter/split pushing, you're probably going to do okay.

On January 30 2014 05:56 Alur wrote:

That's what he told me atleast.

On January 29 2014 23:24 KUNGJAH wrote:

im pretty sure if i was at 5k-5.5k i would maintain a higher winrate than at 4k so obviously its kind of a mmr hell if i cant advance. dota is not some advanced game where you need super high skill to play at higher rating. the better people you play with the better winrate you will have if you have good/basic understanding of dota.

On January 29 2014 11:13 emythrel wrote:
Well i think I finally have proof that winrate doesn't matter..... new account 63-38 win/loss or 62% winrate. My MMR on this account? Almost the exact same as my 48% winrate main account with 1000 games. So either its just taking me a while to up my MMR or it really is somewhat independent of winrate. My most recent page on dotabuff is 14-6 win/loss so in my last 20 games I have 70% winrate and my MMR barely went up in that time.

On January 30 2014 01:26 Tobberoth wrote:

No, the better people you play with, the better your opposition. The rest of the people in the game are paired with your MMR, you are the varying factor. It's up to you to be better and push your winrate up, if you suck and play with good people, all you're doing is lowering their winrate, yours will not improve since you're being a burden to your team instead of a carry.

Take two equal teams. Take a player in team A and exchange him for a much better player. Now which team will most likely win? You have to be that player.

On January 30 2014 06:27 _SpiRaL_ wrote:


No it will be the same, ~50%.

On January 30 2014 09:51 KUNGJAH wrote:




yes. 50% at higher play. better games = more fun

On January 30 2014 17:32 fdsdfg wrote:
I have never played ranked, but I play some with my friends, and some solo. Is my MMR for each of these separate?

On January 30 2014 21:54 Mutineer wrote:
My MMr by some reason fluctuated between 2800-3200. I do not know reason.

On January 30 2014 09:51 KUNGJAH wrote:



yes exactly . i want my team to be better and my opposition to be better. not be in low scumbag bracket with intentional feeders and shit

On January 30 2014 16:07 Tobberoth wrote:

Obviously. The problem is that the people you would play with wouldn't agree since you're dragging them down. If you were good enough to play on their level, you would be. At the moment, you're good enough to play in "scum bracket". I mean, I don't even play ranked yet, I would LOVE to play with pro players, the games would be awesome. For me, that is, obviously not for them.

On January 31 2014 03:19 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:


If you magically gained 1.5k MMR, your team would be better and your opposition would be better yes. But you would not be. Thus you'd be losing more games than you'd be winning, and in fact, you'd more than likely be the reason your team would be losing. (Ie. you'd be the person that you're blaming your losses on now. "Man what is this kid doing in 4k MMR he sucks." --> "Man what is this kid doing in 5k MMR he sucks.")

On January 31 2014 06:47 KUNGJAH wrote:



i can assure you im good enough to play in 5k bracket. i wrote to you in a earlier post why im losing games. it wouldnt happen if my team was better. do you see where im coming from. i dont care if the enemy is better aslong as half my team isnt semi retarded. everyone seem to think dota is some super complicated game mechanic wise. what wins and lose you games is the team you play with. controling 1 dude with 4 buttons to press isnt what i see as a hard game so i dont know why you act like this is top 10 grandmaster level

On January 31 2014 06:47 KUNGJAH wrote:



i can assure you im good enough to play in 5k bracket. i wrote to you in a earlier post why im losing games. it wouldnt happen if my team was better. do you see where im coming from. i dont care if the enemy is better aslong as half my team isnt semi retarded. everyone seem to think dota is some super complicated game mechanic wise. what wins and lose you games is the team you play with. controling 1 dude with 4 buttons to press isnt what i see as a hard game so i dont know why you act like this is top 10 grandmaster level

On January 31 2014 06:47 KUNGJAH wrote:

controling 1 dude with 4 buttons to press isnt what i see as a hard game so i dont know why you act like this is top 10 grandmaster level

On January 31 2014 09:44 Darkren wrote:
I am 99% positive that if you link us to some replays or your dotabuff we could find error in your gameplay and what to improve on

On January 29 2014 07:41 ItsMeDomLee wrote:
If you feel that you're the best player on your team then play solo mid and create space for the other players. If you're not dominating mid then you're clearly not as good as you think you are.

On January 31 2014 06:37 KUNGJAH wrote:




ok you dont play in ranked yet you talk about how it works..... you obviously have no clue how it even works so why are you even here talking about this issue

On January 31 2014 19:57 idonthinksobro wrote:
So i have currently 53% overall winrate at 4100 mmr.

I random almost all of my games and when i get a hero like Ancient Apparition i already know that the game will be hard because i can't do anything before i hit 6. My buff will most likely be wasted because there are only very few heros that really benefit from it. My Q is useless without a setup stun/disable or a euls, and i have literally 0 laning presence. I feel like he is wasted mid so i usually play him as role 4/5 hero trying to rush euls and keep wards up and stuff. So with this hero i generally have to trust my allies that they basically win the game for me. I have 27% winrate with this hero. There are a couple others i have terrible winrates with.

If i random storm spirit i usually get mid, crush mid, make ganks happen all around the map and basically can win the game even if my allies are shit. I have 76% winrate with this hero (and most solo mid heros are at least 60%+). If i would pick storm for my next 100 games every single time and assume that i can keep my 76% winrate that would be a plus of 1300 MMR. Sure games maybe get harder and i maybe can't keep the 76% after a couple of games but assuming I end up with 500 or 1000 more mmr would i be considered a better player because my mmr number is higher?

On January 31 2014 17:48 Laserist wrote:


I begin to believe more and more that KUNGJAH is a successful troll. This thread has no chance to be legit when someone thinks he/she can do better at +1K MMR and having 6 total posts.

On January 31 2014 06:56 hacklebeast wrote:
You seem like a pleasant person.

On February 01 2014 01:03 Laserist wrote:
You made my day son.

TL is the most refined community in SC and arguably top 3 in Dota 2.

Wanna give your account to a 5.5K player and let him/her try to increase it to where he/she currently is? I am %100 sure, he/she will legit pub stomp in first 20+ games even with the conditions you described. Elo Hell is a delusion, just it does take time to reach where you belong if you are lower than you "deserve".

Anyways, I see no productive argument will come from this.

On February 01 2014 02:30 Pokebunny wrote:
So you will consistently go up, it might just take hundreds of games to go up a couple hundred mmr.

On February 01 2014 02:44 makmeatt wrote:

And, with minor adjustments, it's supposed to be that way.
I'd love if we all stopped believing these kinds of discussions can be productive in any way, shape or form. OP has a valid issue to take care of, some tried to help, end of story. You know God damn well this is gonna be dragged forever until someone snaps, like with RMM thread.

On February 01 2014 02:30 Pokebunny wrote:
The reality is that it takes a long, long time to go up in dota 2 mmr. Suppose each player has a 10% role in the outcome of a game. That means that the most that your performance can influence the game is from 45% to 55% chance to win (given everyone else is even). So even if you pick a snowball mid hero, your performance will only decide a game maybe 20% of the time max. So you will consistently go up, it might just take hundreds of games to go up a couple hundred mmr.

On February 01 2014 04:36 Pokebunny wrote:
My post was a theoretical exaggeration, but the general idea stands: the majority of your games will not be decided by your own performance, and even if you're 500 mmr below where you should be, you'll move up pretty slow. If you're 1k+ off obviously you'll move faster.

On February 01 2014 05:40 SKC wrote:

Well, that's because 500 MMR is very little. It's not that much more than the natural variance you get, specially if you play a lot of diferent stuff/random. The majority of your games may not be decided by your own performance because most people are playing with players around the same level, but if you are a step above everyone else, which is what this thread is talking about, you can easily make a very meaningful impact in most of your games.

On February 01 2014 05:46 Pokebunny wrote:

Well if you're really 1k+ below what you should be it should be a cakewalk and you shouldn't even have to ask about how to do it.

On January 31 2014 19:57 idonthinksobro wrote:
So i have currently 53% overall winrate at 4100 mmr.

I random almost all of my games and when i get a hero like Ancient Apparition i already know that the game will be hard because i can't do anything before i hit 6. My buff will most likely be wasted because there are only very few heros that really benefit from it. My Q is useless without a setup stun/disable or a euls, and i have literally 0 laning presence. I feel like he is wasted mid so i usually play him as role 4/5 hero trying to rush euls and keep wards up and stuff. So with this hero i generally have to trust my allies that they basically win the game for me. I have 27% winrate with this hero. There are a couple others i have terrible winrates with.

If i random storm spirit i usually get mid, crush mid, make ganks happen all around the map and basically can win the game even if my allies are shit. I have 76% winrate with this hero (and most solo mid heros are at least 60%+). If i would pick storm for my next 100 games every single time and assume that i can keep my 76% winrate that would be a plus of 1300 MMR. Sure games maybe get harder and i maybe can't keep the 76% after a couple of games but assuming I end up with 500 or 1000 more mmr would i be considered a better player because my mmr number is higher?

On February 01 2014 08:08 DrPandaPhD wrote:
I am pretty high rated and whenever I play with my lowrated friends around 3-4k rating I see a lot of unpunished mistakes.

I think a lot of people learn how to survive in Dota, but not how to actually kill. You can crush your lane every single game at your rating because people make really big mistakes. You just have to learn to recognize when they do them, which means you become a better player. That's the best tip I can give as this is a pretty broad question.

On February 01 2014 08:08 DrPandaPhD wrote:
I am pretty high rated and whenever I play with my lowrated friends around 3-4k rating I see a lot of unpunished mistakes.

I think a lot of people learn how to survive in Dota, but not how to actually kill. You can crush your lane every single game at your rating because people make really big mistakes. You just have to learn to recognize when they do them, which means you become a better player. That's the best tip I can give as this is a pretty broad question.

On February 01 2014 02:30 Pokebunny wrote:
The reality is that it takes a long, long time to go up in dota 2 mmr. Suppose each player has a 10% role in the outcome of a game. That means that the most that your performance can influence the game is from 45% to 55% chance to win (given everyone else is even). So even if you pick a snowball mid hero, your performance will only decide a game maybe 20% of the time max. So you will consistently go up, it might just take hundreds of games to go up a couple hundred mmr.

On February 01 2014 19:05 rob.au wrote:
Item choice can make a pretty big difference too. Even pros don't necessarily go the standard pro build on heroes in pub games. You might think you are doing a nice pro build on a hero but then be useless during the 2 minutes your pub game is decided, or not have the tools to overcome your bad hero comp or teammates. Obviously building full retard stuff is even worse, but if you look at the top pub players they'll build heroes differently which gives them an edge in solo queue.

On February 06 2014 03:21 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote:
I got from 3600 when MMR was introduced to around 4500 by playing random hero AP. To me personally, I care way more about 200 start gold than about what role I'll play. I credit my mmr raise to 200 bonus gold.

On February 06 2014 04:10 idonthinksobro wrote:


do you play every hero?