EPTBasically can you skip some of the utility items you sometimes build, remain relevant while midasing around and then spend the extra gold to keep yourself strong late game?
[Hero] Nyx Assassin - Page 3
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Bacillus
Finland1959 Posts
Basically can you skip some of the utility items you sometimes build, remain relevant while midasing around and then spend the extra gold to keep yourself strong late game? | ||
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Verrou
France193 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:08 hariooo wrote: It's more than possible you can't 100-0 an enemy core, especially now that sheep has no break mechanic. Just imagine AM/Void/Bristle/Spec/basically a lot of cores. Sustained control is more useful most of the time now. Your analysis concluded with shit like the enemy team needs 3+ int heroes for this to be worthwhile. That's such a specific conclusion based on really flimsy and specious reasoning. Butterfly is so irrelevant to this discussion it's absurd. Blink Sheep is the only scenario where Scythe wins out. Any other likely scenario (t3 high ground defence) and Oct Core is so obviously better I can't take you seriously when you say something like "it's as useful as butterfly". If you want sustained control, you can buy a cheaper aghs that gives you a similar cd to impale with longer range, why go for octcore then? Especially since you're talking about base defense/siege. My analysis concluded with my opinion. Read as much into it as you want, I don't pretend to have definitive knowledge and would gladly admit to being wrong if proven so. Why are you so focused on the comparison with butterfly? I believe both items aren't fit for Nyx, they have similar costs and can be tempting, octcore since nyx has four actives and butterfly because he's an agi hero. Comparison ends here. And why'd you missquote me saying octcore is as useful as butterfly, when i said they can have uses on him without qualifying how useful they'd be? On May 11 2015 05:06 Bacillus wrote: Completely out of theorycrafting, do you think there are situational cases where you'd want to go midas on nyx in some games? Nyx isn't exactly a good farming hero, but both Aghs and OctCore seem pretty decent uses for extra gold floating around. Basically can you skip some of the utility items you sometimes build, remain relevant while midasing around and then spend the extra gold to keep yourself strong late game? I don't know, since the golden rule of dota is "everything is situational" I'd say "probably?" but I wouldn't know in which cases. Probably very slow games where you and your team can't push highground yet but you have a big advantage and want to guarantee the lategame? | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
you're expecting people to buy into the premise that people think butterfly is ever viable on nyx to support the argument that oct core is similarly useless. you're comparing the usefulness of butterfly on a hero that never autoattacks to the usefulness of having 3 active skills that can control fights up 33% more often. either you're really bad or you think the rest of the thread is bad enough to humour that stupid comparison | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
I think both can be good depending on the situation. | ||
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Verrou
France193 Posts
On May 11 2015 12:37 hariooo wrote: buying aghs does not prevent you from buy oct core afterwards. it's not relevant we're talking about late-game scythe vs oct core you're expecting people to buy into the premise that people think butterfly is ever viable on nyx to support the argument that oct core is similarly useless. you're comparing the usefulness of butterfly on a hero that never autoattacks to the usefulness of having 3 active skills that can control fights up 33% more often. either you're really bad or you think the rest of the thread is bad enough to humour that stupid comparison If you're talking about a 6-slotted nyx, then yeah, go buy it, compare to scythe, see how it goes. Sincerely since you can't argue without telling me that i'm bad, stupid, and that what I say is shit, I don't want to answer you. I don't even want to consider your arguments, which I already adressed in my previous answers. Still, have a nice day  | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
I generally don't like Core on heroes such as nyx. I don't think the shortened CD on his skills are superior over Dagon/eblade/hex most of the time despite the usefulness. So it depends on whether you really need the other items. I do agree though that the analysis is pretty useless. It is not so much about justifying Core quantitatively, but to do so qualitatively. | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
the "i know it's tempting just like buying butterfly on Nyx because he's agi" is like i said just disingenuous or plain stupid | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On May 11 2015 17:06 hariooo wrote: of course it's situational. but that was the point the entire time. how can someone say it's as useless as butterfly though? the "i know it's tempting just like buying butterfly on Nyx because he's agi" is like i said just disingenuous or plain stupid I agree that no comparisons should be made with butterfly in the context of nyx. That item has no place on that hero. Even if we ignore the CDR of Core, the fact that it contains Soul Booster worth of stats make it way more useful than Butterfly. | ||
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Verrou
France193 Posts
Sincerely though hariooo, drop it with that judgmental attitude, you can have your opinions about my ideas but you don't need to attack me personally. Did I say you were a fool for considering octcore? Did I tell you that your fixation with the comparison I made was close to retardedness? I didn't, and I wouldn't do it not only because it's wrong to do so but also because you're not the subject of the discussion. I wasn't the subject of our discussion. Why'd you feel the need to constantly call me names? | ||
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GtC
United States546 Posts
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
I'm not sure of any alternative interpretation of that sentence. On May 12 2015 01:52 GtC wrote: What graphically happens when rubick lifts a lurker-fied nyx? What you'd expect, unless there was a change in the b patch. You're just moved. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
it simply isn't 5900 gold more valid than blink stun on whatever the cd is now | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
having 4 2.77s stuns in a 20s fight during a rosh protection or high ground defence can have much more impact | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
keep in mind refresher is as many stuns in that circumstance, plus extra item uses and other spells. O-core only outperforms refresher once you've cast the spell 4 times on-CD etc | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
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Verrou
France193 Posts
On May 12 2015 03:35 hariooo wrote: "Final point being: yes, Octarine has its uses on Nyx, like Butterfly has its uses on Nyx" I'm not sure of any alternative interpretation of that sentence. Having uses is not the same as having equal usefulness. As I said higher, On May 11 2015 11:42 Verrou wrote: why'd you missquote me saying octcore is as useful as butterfly, when i said they can have uses on him without qualifying how useful they'd be? Basically, you interpreted my words in a way that was never intended by me so you could discuss them. That's not how discussions work. There's even a name for that logical fallacy, although it's so common I won't bother mentioning it. | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
Butterfly has literally zero uses on Nyx. Therefore the above statement implies that Octarine has zero uses. If you intended a different meaning then it just means your English isn't great. | ||
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