EPT[Hero] Ogre Magi - Page 5
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34491 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
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Veles
United States3280 Posts
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
In general it is not an argument about whether aghs is better than forcestaff. Duh, it costs twice as much. Its a question of whether it is just too greedy to build nothing but stats for 20 minutes after buying your arcanes. Maybe longer. Again, my opinion is that it is pretty hard to justify this if you are playing hard support buying wards/smoke/vision for obvious reasons. Edit: I would also find a blink vs forcestaff discussion to be more useful laying out the pros/cons of that and when for each. If there is no other blink stunner on my team I always go blink if possible because, sure, its not as good as blink into an aoe stun; but initiation is always good and so is the general mobility provided. Ofc you need other heroes who can follow you up. I have made euls a few times and find it very underwhelming on this hero unless there is a special reason for it. I have gone tranquils/urn/blink/force many times and actually find it a quite nice build. Early tranquils/urn is also the best roaming build hands down over arcanes/soulbooster from the aghs build. Blows it out of the water and plays on the heroes strengths a lot more. | ||
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
but yeah it all depends on how the game is going, who your initiation is, etc | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
On October 18 2014 08:57 Atreides wrote: I also dislike arcanes on him early game, but it is not remotely fair to say buy a point booster instead of arcanes because the decision to go aghs in and of itself kind of necessitates arcanes because of how phenomenally strong on demand mana items are with unrefined fireblast. soul ring is enough usually, isn't it? | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
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Fleetfeet
Canada2558 Posts
On October 18 2014 07:36 Atreides wrote: I'm less interested in this continued argument about whether aghs is good or not, and more interested in people discussing the reality of when/how you buy the damn thing. I mean on any other support with an expensive luxury item (aghs/sheep/whatever) people would just laugh and say "look dude, ofc aghs is amazing on disruptor, you won't get it many games though and its not the point of the hero". I think that is completely overlooked in this whole argument. To reiterate what I said previously, in my experience playing this hero as support in pubs most games you can't actually get an aghs before the game is already decided unless you straight up rush the thing after arcanes. (going aghs necessitates arcanes rather than tranquils) In general it is not an argument about whether aghs is better than forcestaff. Duh, it costs twice as much. Its a question of whether it is just too greedy to build nothing but stats for 20 minutes after buying your arcanes. Maybe longer. Again, my opinion is that it is pretty hard to justify this if you are playing hard support buying wards/smoke/vision for obvious reasons. Edit: I would also find a blink vs forcestaff discussion to be more useful laying out the pros/cons of that and when for each. If there is no other blink stunner on my team I always go blink if possible because, sure, its not as good as blink into an aoe stun; but initiation is always good and so is the general mobility provided. Ofc you need other heroes who can follow you up. I have made euls a few times and find it very underwhelming on this hero unless there is a special reason for it. I have gone tranquils/urn/blink/force many times and actually find it a quite nice build. Early tranquils/urn is also the best roaming build hands down over arcanes/soulbooster from the aghs build. Blows it out of the water and plays on the heroes strengths a lot more. On the discussion of greedy / not greedy support items - Outright completely onesided stomps are 25 minutes at LEAST. You're not winning games in 15 minutes anymore, and more likely in games where you've had and maintained a steady advantage, you're not actually closing it out 'till 30-35 minutes. The game's slowed down a lot, and while yeah getting an Aghas on Kotl/ogre/disruptor was for the most part reserved for luxury situations, that's less the case now because the game IS going to last longer, and AoE bounty gold will mean you're a bit richer than you used to be. The last few patches have put more gold in supports' hands. It isn't really the case anymore that one otherwise "luxury" item is in your hands come 40 minutes, especially if you're surviving through winning teamfights. About needing arcanes for aghas - I go / have gone tranqs -> urn > blademail -> aghas. I'm not convinced you need to get the second or third rounds of normal fireblasts off in a teamfight to be useful. Obviously it is beneficial, but soul ring/wand would be enough to get you there, you shouldn't need arcanes as well. About blink being awesome - Yes, blink is awesome :D | ||
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FuzioNda1337
Sweden159 Posts
Why? well if u get high regen quick after that agha you can spamm two stuns with 2 second cooldown,yes two second cooldown you heard me right. Imagine being able to do this in ganks/teamfights at 15-18 min mark. it changes up the gameplay completeley. What ppl also need to notice is compared to other tanky spellcasters or str heroes. His armor, and str gain is really good. U should not play as support being more in the backline in fights if u go midrole, you should more be like a frontliner like bristle, due to high levels and rely on team8s helping you. and eul/force staff and your team8s spells to help u out. unlike most core orge magi they play in the back wich is wrong, you dont play orge the same way as #2 role as #4/#5 role at all. I heard somone out saying midas is great,i agree somewhat however, you delay your defining blast, and that is not good. you will not i repeat you will not get your refined blast faster becuse of it. and you are squishier, less armor less hp. And if your team;s gameplan is sit back and play safe and farm with midas. Then the orge magi pick was the wrong pick to begin with. But i agree with you on Midas could be good, but its in so few scenarios, there is very few games i se midas could again be good but then again reason #1 meets reason #2 and collide and still make it obvious your pick was bad in the first place. You dont see puck with midas either, remember, that aghs is just as important for orge as a blinkdagger on sk,puck,es. That refined blast increases your stunduration and damage output signifigantly and also makes u a two button killer on any hero that is not STR based. And as i said manapool you dont need as orge magi as after refined fireblast was thought to get nerfed by the change on it it actually got buffed. just get sick mana regen, and u can cast it 24/7 thats also why euls and scythe, and vlad is core on him. | ||
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HammerKick
France6190 Posts
The armor buff and the bloodlust were minor buffs, but actually, the hero has been pretty good for a while. He's been ignored since the range nerf for some reasons, but to be honest, now that 6.85 came out, some annoying heroes for ogre have been nerfed (hey lesh), the hero is pickable again, especially after the glimmer nerf. And god, he's really strong, and he might be picked a lot at ESL. My skill build is a 2-2-1 build. I start with ignite all the time because it is in my opinion the best level one slow in the game. Huge range, decent damage per second and a 20% slow is always nice in the first minutes. This coupled with your armor and your health and your club makes you a dangerous laner. Skipping bloodlust since 6.85 is not recommended anymore imo, as it can really help when defending a tower. The problem is that you need two points in fireblast: the damage is shit at level 1, and becomes decent at level 2. I'm going arcane/urn/aghs. Aghs still core for all ogres. Glimmer is really good and euls for the reasons quoted previously on this thread. Your thoughts? | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
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Xxazn4lyfe51xX
United States976 Posts
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woojaekeem
United States524 Posts
when this hero falls behind the range on his stun becomes really apparent | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On October 04 2015 00:44 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote: I still want to see the Alch farms Ogre an 8 minutes aghs, who just goes around insta-gibbing everyone on the map for the next 25 minutes :D He needs levels and will be level 3-4 when he received aghs lol. | ||
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HammerKick
France6190 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On October 04 2015 23:55 HammerKick wrote: I'm wondering, can you get the unrefined fireblast without any points in multicast? yes, because its inherently tied to the aghs, not to multicast | ||
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Xxazn4lyfe51xX
United States976 Posts
On October 04 2015 23:08 Laserist wrote: He needs levels and will be level 3-4 when he received aghs lol. Just run him offlane. Even if he was level 4, unrefined is a 275 damage nuke on a 6s cooldown that you never are oom for. Level 2 fireblast is a 110 damage nuke on a 12s cooldown. Level 2 ignite does a good amount of damage and slow too. From full mana, Unrefined, fireblast, ignite, wait 3s, unrefined again, is 864 magical damage, and this doesn't include the clubbing you're gonna get from an ogre who even at level 4 would have at least 1.1k hp. That's scary as hell :D And then just imagine when you hit level 7. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Ogre's damage only really becomes scary with high ranks of multicast. Without 11 or 16, all the Agha does is make up for the fact that you have 2 non-nuke skills. | ||
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Xxazn4lyfe51xX
United States976 Posts
You'll be level 6 at least hopefully. 7 would be better. With a soul ring, you really don't need that much mana regen. You always have enough mana to use unrefined fireblast, so you just need to soul ring to get the first fireblast off: Unrefined fireblast -> soul ring -> regular fireblast -> wait 3s, unrefined fireblast. (this maximizes stun time since unrefined has a lower cooldown than regular fireblast). If you have the mana to get ignite off before the combo, even better. There's not a whole lot of heroes that can stand that kind of burst at this point. It's comparable to how not a whole lot of heroes can stand a full lina combo from a mid lina in the early game. Except this is an ogre, who needs no setup, and whose spells are on a 12s cooldown, one of which he will never run out of mana for on a 6s cooldown. | ||
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