EPT[Hero] Ogre Magi - Page 6
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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soanparlell
United States49 Posts
I have 2 potential builds for him at a 3 position, depending on what your team needs to do. I like either a standard--mana boots into blink into aghs--or going for a push build--mana boots, mek into necro book. The issue is securing enough farm to hit either blink of mek in a short enough time, and snowballing into your expensive item fast enough before bkb's. How are you guys building him? Do you think Mana boots can be skipped in favor of something like phase or treads (for faster farming)? For 4 position, I think blink is your major goal. I don't think you can get mana books mek fast enough to press an advantage (I generally don't like having supports build mek except for Chen or Enigma who can farm it fast enough). Do you guys go for anything like medallion, glimmer cape or Urn? Also, I am impressed by how well Ogre can jungle with one level of bloodlust and a quelling blade. He can't do it at Jugg speeds, but he can be efficient enough to allow a support farm a lane once he has something like mana boots. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
Mek can obviously be good in the right game, but I doubt Necro is that good of an item. It doesnt synergize with him at all pretty much. And its not that strong of a pushing item honestly, they die from a few towers shots and some random nukes if you send them into towers. On top of that you wont get Necro3 until enemy carries are farmed enough to easily kill them. Even if you go Mek you should probably either go Greaves or move into Glimmer/Force afterwards. Force/Glimmer is strong both at 15min and 50min while Necro loses a lot in value as the game progresses. Personally I like building some mana item into Agh. Naked Agh will put a strain on your mana situation. And items like Mek and Glimmer are hard on your mana too, so if you build those its hard to get that much use of Agh. My favorites are either Mana boots + Force (lots of extra mana, some basic regen from force for sustain) or tranq + Eul (regen and mana from Eul, hp regen from tranq, synergize well with the move speed) and then Agh. This also means you get Agh closer to your lvl 16, which is when Agh really starts to pay off. If Im having a bad game and feel I wont make it to Agh, or make it way too late, I'll probably get both Glimmer and Force, maybe a Ghost scepter too. | ||
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soanparlell
United States49 Posts
On October 06 2015 09:56 Kreb wrote: Im not a fan of Blink unless youre doing super well and can afford to Blink into fights. Is this because Ogre's tankability falls off in the later game? I have had a number of issues being close enough to use my stun on the proper enemy. I don't know if Ogre is good enough in a game where he cannot effectively use that stun. On October 06 2015 09:56 Kreb wrote: Mek can obviously be good in the right game, but I doubt Necro is that good of an item. It doesnt synergize with him at all pretty much. And its not that strong of a pushing item honestly, they die from a few towers shots and some random nukes if you send them into towers. On top of that you wont get Necro3 until enemy carries are farmed enough to easily kill them. I have been impressed by how effective the necro units can be with bloodlust. (It is the same reason why you would build necro on Beastmaster, because the attack speed aura synergies so well with the low base attack speed melee unit) The real issue (as you have said) is getting the item fast enough, as Ogre needs a mana regen item to be effective, usually wants to tank up some to be a front liner, and Ogre is not effective at flash farming. I might be asking for too much from an Ogre core position, but it strikes me as a possible build especially as necro continues to be buffed. On October 06 2015 09:56 Kreb wrote: My favorites are either Mana boots + Force (lots of extra mana, some basic regen from force for sustain) or tranq + Eul (regen and mana from Eul, hp regen from tranq, synergize well with the move speed) and then Agh. This also means you get Agh closer to your lvl 16, which is when Agh really starts to pay off. If Im having a bad game and feel I wont make it to Agh, or make it way too late, I'll probably get both Glimmer and Force, maybe a Ghost scepter too. I have not tried force or eul too much. I have never felt that Ogre needs mana regen after mana boots, if you are careful about your mana management; although, I have not tried force often when I support with him (usually opting for blink or rushing aghs). Does Euls give anything more than the move speed or mana regen? Do you only build that in a game where the dispel effect is wanted (against Ember or Silencer)? What do you think about Atos? The hp it gives seems like it would synergize with Ogre's high armor, but the effect is always lackluster as when a support would be able to afford it, it is usually already countered. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
Well, its true you can Bloodlust Necros. So theres some synergy there. But then again you likely have 2-4 other targets you want to BL over the Necros. I like Force against typical melee heroes. Force is amazing against heroes like Alch, WK, Ursa, Sven, PA, Troll, and similar. Wait for them to commit on a target with their Stun (alch, wk, sven) or slow (ursa, troll) or jump (PA) or whatever, and force your buddy away. That can be fight winning. Eul is as you say more against Silences and as interrupt. You can Eul a windranger whos focus firing your team mate, but often times you cant force your team mate since he might have got shackled facing the wrong direction. You can Eul a Void in chrono (although it got a lot harder with the range nerf), but not force you buddy in chrono. You can Eul an enemy LC in duel, but not force your buddy away from the duel. These are just 3 examples, and theres plenty of silencing heroes where its an option too. I always try to consider how an Eul would perform vs Force against the enemy abilities. And dont forget about glimmer too. Its an amazing item used right. Sometimes I wonder if I should just screw Agh and get Force+Glimmer all games. I generally dont get it because I wanna get Agh, but thats just my playstyle really, and I like to dream about those 2x4 Multicasts  . Not really sure its the best way to play him though.Oh and I do agree Ogre doesnt need mana beyond mana boots...... until Agh. So from a mana management perspective the force or Eul is generally more as a preparation for the Agh to come, since just mana boots -> Agh might both give you lacking health sustain throughout the game as well as make it hard to get multiple unrefined fireblast off in a fight once you got Agh. | ||
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RolleMcKnolle
Germany1054 Posts
And in the case you have aghs I would always prefer a soul ring over arcanes anyway. Since u have the extra mana more often and unrefined isn't sucking away that much mana, since you have a smaller pool anyway. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
On October 08 2015 00:51 RolleMcKnolle wrote: Why are people so big fans of manaboots on him? If my team doesn't really need my arcanes I prefer having tranquils + soul ring. It is a bit more expensive but gives you a lot more. Especially since a supporting ogre might not have that fast force/blink and every bit of movement speed is really helpful then. And in the case you have aghs I would always prefer a soul ring over arcanes anyway. Since u have the extra mana more often and unrefined isn't sucking away that much mana, since you have a smaller pool anyway. I usually grab it if I'm doing really well early on, since it benefits my allies too. But if its a slow game, I'd too prefer tranq sr. | ||
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HammerKick
France6190 Posts
You want arcane boots when your team needs them. | ||
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rabidch
United States20288 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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rabidch
United States20288 Posts
On December 21 2015 23:54 Logo wrote: He's pretty beastly in general now. Aether lens, if you can get that far in his build, makes him a monster in teamfights even more than he already was. i usually get it after my core spell spam items, and after midas if i think the game is going to be slow or im doing well. offlane pretty much ensures that you'll enough levels to kill people and once u kill people u can make your merry way to lens tranq+SR (i skip tranq if im doing TOO well) notes: the rop change back to 175 helps him a lot since he can walk into lane with an extra little something and the 3 armor doesnt help all thta much since you have 8 armor naturally lmao. then with 3.5 regen you pretty much shrug off most right clicks and walk back to regen to green with tango. its IMPOSSIBLE for a single support to zone out ogre magi, support ALWAYS needs help with zoning and if ogre gets soul ring its impossible to stop him from laning since he just throws a ignite after ignite and not many heroes can deal with that (also note he'll have 7 hp/sec at this point). if u have a team that believes in you you can say "tp/gank if they dive top " since it takes a kitchen sink to kill him whats actually different with this version is that aether lens is way stupid on this hero since it gives him every stat he needs and it makes his casts better than ogre magi back when he was actually being played in competitive dota. you cast ignites from across the screen to harass/cancel daggers and now u can actually fireblast from far range which is really annoying. the hero gets stalled a bit if midgame is slow since his farm speed is meh, so i usually go midas on him to make the lens -> aghs transition a lot better (a lot like pheonix) as once u have lens + aghs u pretty much lolmulticastlolmulticastlolmulticast. unfortunately in every game i've played him i've never been able to get octarine since the game always ends before 30 minutes this hero usually cant win a game on his own but he can make life hell for the other team. | ||
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village_idiot
2436 Posts
With mana boots, soul ring, lens, aghs and core this hero becomes a stun machine gun. Extremely satisfying to play, if you manage to get that much farm before the game ends. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
Lens does seem like a great pickup though. I think Lens is overbought overall (when initiators like Lion get Lens over Blink i cry a little inside) but Ogre is just a damage dealer in fights, not an initiator. Also he isnt squishy to the point when he needs glimmer or force just to survive like cm/disrupt/skywrath/whatever needs. Ogre can focus on improving his range/damage without being hurt too much. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
If you dont go Agh brown boots should suffice. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
If you do get tranqs it's more about the ability to quickly close in on people, not the regen. | ||
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rabidch
United States20288 Posts
i think dual offlane is only good with ogre sometimes if u can farm off of the lane, he really needs the extra levels | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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