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On August 29 2016 06:16 5-s wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2016 06:11 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 29 2016 06:08 5-s wrote:
You guys think the skill level of the 5 matters at all in competitive Dota? Is that why liquid and secret did so poorly, because they lacked skilled players? To be fair 5-s I do think skill matters a little bit But I do think bulba has it in him Right but we're comparing different 8k players on the 5 position, as if the difference in skill level makes a big difference when their job is to tank smoke ganks and place wards. I'd much rather have someone who could read the game situation and communicate than someone who can make a huge play once every 20 games when they're not just a creep.
You are right.
However, there was a 2 month period when Jerax played ES/Tusk, and looked like the best player in the world from the 4. He almost when undefeated on ES/Tusk in officials. Of course with the new patches, that's no longer the case.
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Bulba's played mid, he's played support, he's played offlane. He's captained teams, built teams, joined top teams. And has only ever had mediocre results.
Maybe he needs the right team to be able to shine...but if that's the case, he apparently needs a lot of conditions for a team to be "right".
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I'm a huge JerAx fan and would hate to see him go, but if we assume JerAx decided to leave for some reason (as I can't imagine him being kicked unless there was some huge internal conflict which seems unlikely between jerax and kuro), then what other options would kuro have? I'm sure he would like to have someone like zai or crit but I think those guys are going their own merry way.
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On August 30 2016 01:29 zolasell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2016 01:18 Anamorph wrote:On August 29 2016 23:26 zolasell wrote:
MC used to be a pretty bad player too.MAYBE bulba just hasnt found his team yet ? MC got no professional career before playing with liquid. And he was awesome in those FPL, Faceit-Pro League stuff where he was discovered as a clockwork pro. There was no time he was BAD. There is still a time where he needs to improve in handling pressure on-stage. When he was picked up by liquid he wasnt really that good though.clearly the weakest link of the team and a below average offlaner.NOW he is great and a player to look out for.not saying that the same think will happen with bulba infact i doupt it but we can never rule out the posibility
Saying MC wasn't good isn't really true. He was inexperienced and nervous, yes. All the big games he'd just not show up and kuro basically gave him dark seer every game to create a comfort zone for him. Waga said on a panel a while back that MC is great to play with in pubs because he is unselfish and plays any position and carries the team half the time. He had decent success on Aftershock/Basically Unknown with both lower skilled players and a revolving door of teammates. Just because someone wasn't on a well known team before liquid doesn't mean they weren't good. They had to do something to get noticed
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So all the big teams have at least anounced their leaving players right now, but nothing from liquid. All this waiting is really a pain in the ass...
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On August 30 2016 17:49 hunter_x wrote:
So all the big teams have at least anounced their leaving players right now, but nothing from liquid. All this waiting is really a pain in the ass...
just 5 more days
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On August 30 2016 17:49 hunter_x wrote:
So all the big teams have at least anounced their leaving players right now, but nothing from liquid. All this waiting is really a pain in the ass...
This either means that there wont be any changes in TL, OR they are still negotiating Jerax's'contract.
Probably the second part is true, as im kind of convinced that Miracle will replace Fata mid, so the only unknown part is Jerax.
Fingers crossed for Liquid'Jerax For at least one more year!
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im not sure replacing miracle for Fata would be better.Fata provided the team stability while miracle was a star player like sumail.i feel like this is too much like RTZ sumail EG where none of the 2 could reach his best
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Since EE/Rtz didn't work out everybody is saying that you cann't have two greedy cores. But the secret problem was that they had 4 gready players + pld.
And Rtz/Sumail did work out quite ok. Sumails best heros got nerved so he dropped off a bit. Saying it was RTZs fault is not entierly true in my opinion.
Also Miracle can nearly play every hero at a top level. He is kind of like fear in that regard. Miracle joining Liquid would be an improvment.
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But switching bulba with jerax would make us worse, even with miracle
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On August 30 2016 02:18 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Bulba's played mid, he's played support, he's played offlane. He's captained teams, built teams, joined top teams. And has only ever had mediocre results.
Maybe he needs the right team to be able to shine...but if that's the case, he apparently needs a lot of conditions for a team to be "right".
he played under the flag of the 2 top teams EU and NA with PPD and PPY as a drafter and before he played in liquid.
So we re talking about 3 tier 1 teams to show up your skill under the flag of 2 of the best drafters so far.
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Sure is a lot of judgement going on in here.
Lets see how things pan out before declaring that you know better than most pros who is good and who isn't.
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On August 31 2016 01:47 Anamorph wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2016 02:18 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Bulba's played mid, he's played support, he's played offlane. He's captained teams, built teams, joined top teams. And has only ever had mediocre results.
Maybe he needs the right team to be able to shine...but if that's the case, he apparently needs a lot of conditions for a team to be "right". he played under the flag of the 2 top teams EU and NA with PPD and PPY as a drafter and before he played in liquid. So we re talking about 3 tier 1 teams to show up your skill under the flag of 2 of the best drafters so far.
*Cough*Team Tinker*Cough*
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On August 30 2016 23:23 TriCkster135 wrote:
Since EE/Rtz didn't work out everybody is saying that you cann't have two greedy cores. But the secret problem was that they had 4 gready players + pld.
And Rtz/Sumail did work out quite ok. Sumails best heros got nerved so he dropped off a bit. Saying it was RTZs fault is not entierly true in my opinion.
Also Miracle can nearly play every hero at a top level. He is kind of like fear in that regard. Miracle joining Liquid would be an improvment.
im not saying that it wouldnt be good.i said that it would be like EG RtZ sumail.a constant top 3 but never top 1
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On August 30 2016 22:41 zolasell wrote:
im not sure replacing miracle for Fata would be better.Fata provided the team stability while miracle was a star player like sumail.i feel like this is too much like RTZ sumail EG where none of the 2 could reach his best
Nope it will not be like that as those are two very greedy cores that if don't get space will struggle. IN our case Matu is not that greedy, he can often play and did play some heroes that create space for Fata
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Now Fata is an awesome player, very stable, and even if he stays i'd be happy, TL will still be able to win against any team, BUT... he is not that kind of a player that with that much space and farm provided will win the game pretty much alone. Unfortunately there are not many players that can do that. However Miracle is one of them.
Ill agree with Trickster here - Miracle will defo be an upgrade. We can also add MC play style to the equation - and that means another player that if has a good game can shine a lot, but if not - he will provide space for his mid. The more i think about it the more i like the Miracle option.
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I'd have a few things to say about Fata's supposed stability, but I'm at work so I can't go at length now. His play the last 6 months or so was far from reliable, let alone stellar. Going by what was said around the time of the C9 collapse, Fata's personality isn't exactly as chill as the other 4 guys on the team, so that might have been an issue in the end.
That being said, form is temporary and talent is permanent. We know that Fata can perform, but nobody knows how well Miracle can or will do on a different team. He's only ever been on one team that didn't even go through a single roster change, and it is entirely possible that he just clicked extremely well with the rest of the team and the captain. He could very well turn out to be another Universe and crumble the moment he moves away from that ideal environment.
Obviously he's a very talented guy and doesn't seem to be an ass, but that is no guarantee that things will work out.
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On August 31 2016 18:03 Talin wrote:
That being said, form is temporary and talent is permanent. We know that Fata can perform, but nobody knows how well Miracle can or will do on a different team. He's only ever been on one team that didn't even go through a single roster change, and it is entirely possible that he just clicked extremely well with the rest of the team and the captain. He could very well turn out to be another Universe and crumble the moment he moves away from that ideal environment.
Obviously he's a very talented guy and doesn't seem to be an ass, but that is no guarantee that things will work out.
TL will fit Miracle better than OG did for sure. We have more versatile offllaner, that is far less greedy than Moon was, Matu plays several heroes very good that don't need a lot of farm, not to mention his ability to farm on the dangerous parts of the map. This all means more space for the #2 position so the Miracle can happen. When comparing the #4 support Jerax also creates more space than Cr1t did as he is more aggressive, this also creates more space for the midlaner. And we all know what happens when this guy is left alone - he single-handedly wins you the game.
Aslo the one thing he will have this year that he didn't have last year is Experience. The cocky plays Miracle does that literally risk the game when things are not going very well are significantly reduced.
Like you said - talent is permanent. Miracle has a lot of it, imo the synergy with the team will be better especially if Jerax stays.
Of course all that is speculation because we have nothing better to do atm 
However even if TL roster is changing Fata--->Miracle is pretty much the only way Liquid Dota team can get better with roster changes without completely changing the roster.
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Jerax leaving confirmed as predicted. The question is if fata announces retirement or only a break?
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On September 01 2016 01:42 5-s wrote:
Jerax leaving confirmed as predicted. The question is if fata announces retirement or only a break?
We will see about FATA-, altho it was rumored before, I am still pretty sad about JerAx. Oh well, new season, new(ish) team, lets hope Bulba owns.
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fuck this game seriously
I have half a mind to follow Jerax into his new team :/
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EPT
