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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
This team would make any power farming carry with decent map sense a superstar yeah he had clutch plays when it mattered But also makes big positioning mistakes, gets picked when he doesn't have to many times over For me it's clearly 1) Jerax 2) Topson 3) Ana And Godlike) 7mad and N0tail for the drafts and team morale In terms of impact | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On August 27 2018 23:58 nuketurnal2 wrote: ok, after rewatching highlights - ive decided my mvp vote goes to ana because of that clutch play where he sold items/grabbed the bounty to secure buyback insert chatwheel - the next level play I think that's the most insane play I've ever seen | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
On August 28 2018 04:00 LemOn wrote: You guys are overestimating Ana and downplaying the rest of the team This team would make any power farming carry with decent map sense a superstar yeah he had clutch plays when it mattered Literally the most important thing for any carry. The euls echo dodge. The secret shop item selling for BB. The instant gust TP. The map awareness to outplay a godlike Tiny hunting you and escaping. The dopple dodges on PL and abusing the level 25 to perfection. Just optimal positioning in teamfights overall. Not getting caught out like Ame did blindly TPing to fountain. Or RTZ classic farming while ahead and getting picked off. Or EE sacrificing himself and never catching back up. He just made the plays when it mattered and that's all you can really hope for in a carry. He was instrumental to their win and the space Topson/Jerax was making for any lesser carry would just be wasted. Farming is easy, but performing when it matters is how you become champion. No point in ranking them, but with any other carry they would have lost. Ana was on fire that tournament. | ||
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Zea!
9589 Posts
 .For me Ana, Jerax and FY mvps of the tournament. Ana probably best player in the world right now. | ||
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nuketurnal2
62 Posts
On August 28 2018 17:49 shouldbeworking wrote: Literally the most important thing for any carry. The euls echo dodge. The secret shop item selling for BB. The instant gust TP. The map awareness to outplay a godlike Tiny hunting you and escaping. The dopple dodges on PL and abusing the level 25 to perfection. Just optimal positioning in teamfights overall. Not getting caught out like Ame did blindly TPing to fountain. Or RTZ classic farming while ahead and getting picked off. Or EE sacrificing himself and never catching back up. He just made the plays when it mattered and that's all you can really hope for in a carry. He was instrumental to their win and the space Topson/Jerax was making for any lesser carry would just be wasted. Farming is easy, but performing when it matters is how you become champion. No point in ranking them, but with any other carry they would have lost. Ana was on fire that tournament. This. | ||
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3474 Posts
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crocshark
139 Posts
On August 28 2018 04:00 LemOn wrote: You guys are overestimating Ana and downplaying the rest of the team This team would make any power farming carry with decent map sense a superstar yeah he had clutch plays when it mattered You know who can farm all day and not mattered at all in the end. hint: EG pos 1. You could give the EGboi Spectre he wouldn't be able to carry the team. Anyway, i think Fly left the team was probably the best thing ever happened to OG from outsider's perspective. His 5 roles are not that well played and his limited pool made him less desireable during draft stage. For instance, no team would ban his heroes. I still stand on my point that Notail is a terrible carry. He has zero sense of playing it, his farming capability is really bad except on multi-units hero and he always join fight that sacrifice his exp and golds. So with Fly out and Notail went back to pos 5, it worked out in the end. I underestimated Ceb for a long time. I read his blog and his reddit post about ban/pick pre-TI3, i thought he was just all talk. Boy, he proved me wrong. OG run in this TI is probably the best Cinderella story yet. | ||
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goody153
44280 Posts
He was the most consistent carry player in the tournament. Like he made plays, he farmed from behind, he didn't get pickeoff too much and most importantly he actually carried games. It was his perfect balance of aggressiveness and stability that kinda put OG in good position regardless if Jerax/Topson failed to make plays. Obviously everybody played a part. Like Ceb/Notail are clearly the emotional/strategical core of the team, Topson/Jerax mostly playing the playmakers and well Ana himself winning games through his "doesn't matter how bad my game goes i'm making a comeback" that we have seen from him when they won like 4 majors or something. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Besides the uncanny ability to quiet down and just perform when the pressure's at the highest when it matters in the endgame. He is on par with Reso, RTZ, matumba when it comes to farm throughout the game. What a person that doesn't pay close attention doesn't see is that the comeback game after game Ana makes when he's behind on farm is not that much his accomplishment compared to other carries, but the strategy of the whole team. Most of their drafts when they put Ana on a greedy core they just come from behind and they do it by - ridiculous amount of stacking creeps. I've never seen what they've done in the qualifier, 3-4 stack ancients, damage them all to 20% with 2 heroes and Ana just passes by to pick up the last hits over and over again for an 800+gpm Luna - The best space making Duo in the game in Topson + Jerax where the draft is made around making space (especially for spec on Ana ) - Often sacrificial 7mad picks like wyvern that are there mostly for Ana combined with more push delays like Topson Zeus, Pugna, QW Invoker Just a flawless abuse of cheap buybacks on other heroes 2 heroes died, Supernova down on their phoenix? We'll buy both back just to get Ana a roshan. Ana's biggest weakness is actually getting caught out of position time and time again it happened almost every game I watched FP multiple times His strengths are ability to keep up farming tempo throughout mid and late game And as long as he wasn't caught out of position before it started again, perform in decisive teamfights in decisive games where he rarely chokes - the two attributes n0tail lacked that are vital this patch. Maybe I'm a carry player and don't find what he does that special besides the clutch plays in several high pressure moments that make highlight reels, but what Topson and jerax do throughout the game along with the overall strategy of the team just leaves my head baffled. | ||
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crocshark
139 Posts
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
On August 30 2018 20:12 crocshark wrote: Those clutch plays what made Ana able to pull through fights. Anyway, you are right about it's not about ALL Ana. Game 4 was probably Ceb and Topsson play. They made so much space for Ana and a quick spriit vessel on invoker kind of made morphling killable. But i can't see it they win the tournament without their full lineup, Ana farming and clutch play, Topsson unorthodox build yet works, Ceb's out of meta offlane heroes, Jerax's incredible support, hotblooded Notail that has his heroes banned. Excuse me but game 4 invoker was pretty bad, and didn't have any impact until hex came in (tbf he was behind by a lot so its not easy). Btw he didn't build a spirit vessel this game at all. this game was all ceb early game securing important kills with call+sunstrike and farming a very quick vanguard and blink, then Ana got online and played out of his mind to kite LGD around https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4080778303/builds not hating on Topson, he definitely is responsible for a lot of their wins, just not much this game | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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VvvV1251
Algeria142 Posts
On August 30 2018 17:39 LemOn wrote: I watched Ana FP a few times I don't find him to have that big of an edge over other carries Besides the uncanny ability to quiet down and just perform when the pressure's at the highest when it matters in the endgame. I don't know what to say about the contradiction on this sentence. Being able to deal with pressure and delivers when it's matters it's what differentiate good players from the greatest. (in all form of competition, be it sport/e-sport, real life....etc). Being able to delivers when it's matters is one of the most sought after skill (if not the most), because everyone can be good, but not everyone can deliver when it's matters. | ||
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goody153
44280 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On August 31 2018 11:19 goody153 wrote: I think OG is following a w33ha formula when it comes to topson. They just let him do whatever he wants on what he's most comfortable and well it works. He makes tons and tons of play and as much as he flops at times they didn't seem to stop him from doing his thing. Don't mind that part, just think he needs more heroes. Felt like LGD banned some of his heroes and then set up counter against invoker and that kind of worked. And if he had two or three more heroes that couldn't be done. He just turned pro and played little with the team so OG didn't have time to prepare more and the yolo worked. | ||
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YBBUB
70 Posts
Well it's about a week since I watched the unbelievable Cinderella run. Just wanted to write my opinion after re-watching games again & again:All the stars aligned: 1. s4 & Fly leaving (previous TI winner & stuck in old playstyle) 2. ana in (been out for a while, brilliant mid to late game sense & teamfight play as carry evident from last yr) 3. Topson in (weird-ass hero pool [Invoker/AW/MK/Pugna as mid?!?] & confidence of a new player trying risky things) 4. n0tail to 5 (never would have been there with Fly there; his heroes were high-priority bans) 5.Ceb was a coach who never achieved much as player [offlane tree, wyvern & axe!] 6.ppasarel as coach & drafting genius 7.JerAx seemed not as good since Earth Spirit nerfed 8. 1st LAN so no-one can figure you out 9. Underdogs so no pressure (TI6/7 OG didn't do well underpressure) 10. Evolve the meta from staid thought of win lanes win game - there are other ways! 11. First matchups in groups against LGD/Liquid/EG - I thougth 1-5 was great result & then they powerd thru after that to get 9-7 upper bracket (9-7 last year got them lower bracket) There's a great Ceb interview that also mentions 8-9 things aligning on https://www.vpesports.com/dota2/7ckngmad-ti8-interview-jerax-notail-and-i-were-going-to-turn-it-into-fire-into-something-great/ To see all those close games: IO-Spec with CW vs EG game 3; ana PL 1v4 in GF game 4; & then GF game 5 have ES on opposite team & pick Rubick/Magnus/Ember/Zeus and actually win! [hate Magnus - seems bad] Been longtime lurker & OG fan from beginning as Monkey Business, just wanted to say thanks LiquidDota for best website for keeping track of DotA pro scene & replays and hello to good DotA fans. I see above about Topson needing to increase hero pool - he'll need more now everyone will study his play (that's the beauty of 1st major LAN where it's not so important). Hope Topson keeps high confidence & taking those risks because without all the ingredients, this OG win would not happen, imo. | ||
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MetalMercury
United States1161 Posts
However, I can't help but feel that they managed to catch lightning in a bottle. They had wonderful strategies and they abused the current buyback better than any other team at the event. And while Ana, Ceb, and Jerax all played in the top 5 of their respective positions during the tournament, Topson was probably a bottom 5 mid player in this event (and I don't mean any disrespect by this; the competition this year was outstanding) and Notail struggled pretty badly in most laning stages of the tournament with heroes that shouldn't, like Silencer and Chen. It all feels very "Wings" to me, where they might have another good event or two in them but I haven't really seen any evidence yet that this a sustainable performance level for this group of 5 in events going forward. But more importantly than all that, it's good for Dota in general that a team like this won TI. This might be the biggest "feel good" moment Dota has ever had, and it came on the biggest stage with more people watching than ever! | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On September 03 2018 11:43 MetalMercury wrote: They played quite a tournament; they were on a teamplay level unlike something we've seen since Wings at TI 6. It's actually a pretty interesting comparison for me; while Wings put up a more dominant performance in both the group stage and the playoff bracket than OG did they both did it on the back of tremendous team play and coordination, as well as a few off meta picks. They lost the laning stage all the time and still managed to win their games in a way that has been almost unheard of in this patch. However, I can't help but feel that they managed to catch lightning in a bottle. They had wonderful strategies and they abused the current buyback better than any other team at the event. And while Ana, Ceb, and Jerax all played in the top 5 of their respective positions during the tournament, Topson was probably a bottom 5 mid player in this event (and I don't mean any disrespect by this; the competition this year was outstanding) and Notail struggled pretty badly in most laning stages of the tournament with heroes that shouldn't, like Silencer and Chen. It all feels very "Wings" to me, where they might have another good event or two in them but I haven't really seen any evidence yet that this a sustainable performance level for this group of 5 in events going forward. But more importantly than all that, it's good for Dota in general that a team like this won TI. This might be the biggest "feel good" moment Dota has ever had, and it came on the biggest stage with more people watching than ever! As i remember N0tail did play one of the best early games Silencer and stole crazy amounts of int against TL, but later played less well and OG lost that game. Think N0tail brought so much spirit and game insight and motivation to the team, that he was the most important reason they won, they could have switched him with Solo and they wouldn't have came close to winning this TI. For me he would be MVP for TI, can see Jeraz or Ana also. | ||
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YBBUB
70 Posts
I reckon Wings could also be considered to be lucky in TI6 because the other 3 favourites tanked badly (OG/Liquid/Newbee). It also did feel "Wings" to me too knowing they set & changed the meta/playstyle - but Wings were one of the TI6 favourites while my hopes for TI8OG was only to be competitive, never mind winning any games in main event. People seem to think Wings did very well all throughout TI6, but they did NOT dominate group stages - they had 8-6 record equal 3rd/4th in group, losing to 0-2 to Navi & TNC. That's comparable imo to OG's 9-7 in TI8. But yeah going forward, other teams/analysts will figure them out along with Icefrog nerfs to oblivion. But that's always happened, so who cares?  @Sapaio, I agree with what you wrote: in group stages, I was hoping n0tail got Silencer more than any other hero because I could see the team doing well with it. n0tail's heroes were banned a lot in 1st phase including Chen. Same with Topson Invoker - if it wasn't banned in 2nd or 3rd phase, they would likely pick it. It's also not a coincidence that OG took less-known players Miracle-, ana, Topson that transformed into standouts. | ||
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Typhus
Norway122 Posts
On September 03 2018 14:59 Sapaio wrote: As i remember N0tail did play one of the best early games Silencer and stole crazy amounts of int against TL, but later played less well and OG lost that game. Think N0tail brought so much spirit and game insight and motivation to the team, that he was the most important reason they won, they could have switched him with Solo and they wouldn't have came close to winning this TI. For me he would be MVP for TI, can see Jeraz or Ana also. Notail played some very impressive games. He won the solo as bane versus enchantress/venge in game 3 vs. EG. I remember all the analysts were panning OGs lane and though spectre would get nothing. Notail secured Ana a very good amount of early game farm. edit: I dont think we should forget that Notail got a fair amount of heroes first phase banned against him as well. Always an advantage to draw target bans against pos 5 heroes. | ||
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