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Digital Chaos Discussion - Page 23

Forum Index > Dota 2 Player & Team Discussion
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Anamorph
Profile Joined September 2015
236 Posts
August 14 2016 10:54 GMT
#441
Game 4 was not bad played. They were behind and he tried to get them in the game.
He made awesome slark plays, hyper aggressive and impressive ones that secured a lot of fights.

In the end, very good final games, I liked watching them. Wings is a step behind all teams at this stage, mainly because they re to flexible to prepare.
LemOn
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United Kingdom8629 Posts
August 14 2016 11:10 GMT
#442
Awesome stuff, for me even bigger Cinderella story than CDEC last year. Enjoy your millions!
Much is the father figure that I miss in my life. Go Daddy! DoC.LemOn, LemOn[5thF]
Anamorph
Profile Joined September 2015
236 Posts
August 14 2016 11:42 GMT
#443
After tax (average calc of 50%) and the part the organisation will get (1/6) , each player should have at least 300k USD.
If you just look were they live.. urkain, romania, .. most of them should be damn happy.. in ukrain this would be a lifetime sallary, same goes for romania or macedonia, and they still have a regular income.

I know its more about the pride, but in the end they achieved something in life they would have never achieved in other ways. They should be proud, and they can support their familys so much now.
Seeing it from the dota-perspective, they performed extremly good. Misery made strong drafts and each person of them showed up. No reason to disband, just go on, try to get more out of it, enjoy.
LemOn
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-14 11:44:49
August 14 2016 11:44 GMT
#444
Much is the father figure that I miss in my life. Go Daddy! DoC.LemOn, LemOn[5thF]
LightTemplar
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Ireland481 Posts
August 14 2016 11:53 GMT
#445
So happy for the team, it really cut me up that they couldn't go the whole way but I didn't even dream that they would get so far. I'm glad Misery finally gets some recognition. It was really cool to see him shouting in game. I remember the first LAN event I went to, Dreamhack Summer 2014 and sitting in the crowd with Misery screaming his way through a Mouz game on the first day.

Also so happy for Moo, been following him for a while and its so great to see him achieve, hes such an incredibly good offlaner.
"Thoughts are always there, the mind can't stop" - Grubby
the bear jew
Profile Joined August 2014
United States3674 Posts
August 14 2016 12:32 GMT
#446
On August 14 2016 19:54 Anamorph wrote:
Game 4 was not bad played. They were behind and he tried to get them in the game.
He made awesome slark plays, hyper aggressive and impressive ones that secured a lot of fights.

In the end, very good final games, I liked watching them. Wings is a step behind all teams at this stage, mainly because they re to flexible to prepare.


They didn't keep their composure and aggression is good, but it wasn't always smart aggression. They got baited and out played.

They could of won, but it would always be an uphill struggle since Wings overall was the better team. It was possible to beat them but they couldn't stay in the mental place needed for it. They had a great run and I hope they continue to perform like this in the future.
DeMoN pulled off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
Xendarii
Profile Joined December 2014
327 Posts
August 15 2016 07:20 GMT
#447
It's really a strange feeling being a DC fan right now. On one side, I'm so happy for the team for what they've accomplished because I don't think anybody would've thought they'd reach the finals. I'm especially happy for Misery that he's finally got a great result at an International, and he seemed to be so happy after the third game vs. EG, it was such a pleasure to see. On the other side though, they could've done the unthinkable and win the whole thing, particularly after being ahead one game, but I guess Wings was simply too strong this year. I really hope they stick together as a team and don't have any roster changes.
hariooo
Profile Joined October 2013
Canada2830 Posts
August 15 2016 20:51 GMT
#448
I think swapping w33 and reso on slark/mirana was a really clear sign of the lack of confidence. Didn't see that when they dropped a game to EG, for example.
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
August 15 2016 21:03 GMT
#449
On August 16 2016 05:51 hariooo wrote:
I think swapping w33 and reso on slark/mirana was a really clear sign of the lack of confidence. Didn't see that when they dropped a game to EG, for example.


Wasn't it cause DC was expecting Bat mid and Axe bottom. So they wanted to put w33 mid with Slark. Turned out bad cuz Wings went one step ahead with Faith solo mid.
hariooo
Profile Joined October 2013
Canada2830 Posts
August 15 2016 21:30 GMT
#450
On August 16 2016 06:03 DucK- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2016 05:51 hariooo wrote:
I think swapping w33 and reso on slark/mirana was a really clear sign of the lack of confidence. Didn't see that when they dropped a game to EG, for example.


Wasn't it cause DC was expecting Bat mid and Axe bottom. So they wanted to put w33 mid with Slark. Turned out bad cuz Wings went one step ahead with Faith solo mid.


Maybe Wings did expect that originally but if you put w33 on Slark at the beginning of the game isn't that a pretty big sign saying "Slark is mid"? Not like Resolution is any stranger to the mid lane.
neozxa
Profile Joined August 2011
Indonesia545 Posts
August 16 2016 14:24 GMT
#451
On August 14 2016 19:54 Anamorph wrote:
Game 4 was not bad played. They were behind and he tried to get them in the game.
He made awesome slark plays, hyper aggressive and impressive ones that secured a lot of fights.

In the end, very good final games, I liked watching them. Wings is a step behind all teams at this stage, mainly because they re to flexible to prepare.


ironicaly he was both the saving grace and the reason why his team lost,

game 4 during the later part of the game when DC was behind after losing a teamfight he took a huge risk and decided to pick off one of wings supports at their secret shop.

he went solo with no backup from his team since his team was on the other side of the map if i recall. unfortunately for him he died in the process leaving his team to 4v5 the team, then mirana got picked off also and they had to force w33's buyback.

perhaps if w33 didnt go for that play maybe dc would have had a better shot of winning but maybe the game was practically over at a progamer's viewpoint that he had to take the risk and try for a pickoff.

although i dont blame him for making that play, it was in the heat of the moment and they had to make something happen. just...damn. He could have sunsfanned dota 2 if they somehow won against wings and won ti6. such a shame, really.
Keep moving forward
Anamorph
Profile Joined September 2015
236 Posts
August 24 2016 07:40 GMT
#452
If reso really left, I dont see a future for this squad, because he and w33 were an anglepoint and skillwise are the best in this team, not far away from saksa.
Because it seems to be clear, that the skilled carries (miracle- . .etc) are in different teams, there is nothing left with the potential of reso.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-24 09:15:35
August 24 2016 08:46 GMT
#453
On August 24 2016 16:40 Anamorph wrote:
If reso really left, I dont see a future for this squad, because he and w33 were an anglepoint and skillwise are the best in this team, not far away from saksa.
Because it seems to be clear, that the skilled carries (miracle- . .etc) are in different teams, there is nothing left with the potential of reso.

Based on these tweets, I get a strong feeling they're actually sticking together.
+ Show Spoiler +






But it could go either way, I guess.
+ Show Spoiler +




It might also be important to note that Resolution already survived one roster switch at DC where his entire team left, and still he stuck with sunsfan. I wouldn't be surprised if he actually felt dedicated to staying on the team despite being granted a bit of a star status. Still, its the post-TI roster shuffle and anything could happen. I'm desperately hoping they stick together for another year, as I did when I first saw them come into their own as a team at the TI group stages.

Not only because I really like the current DC roster, but also because I really want to stick it to DucK-:

On August 12 2016 15:52 DucK- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2016 13:12 a_flayer wrote:
On August 11 2016 01:48 DucK- wrote:
On August 11 2016 01:45 a_flayer wrote:
On August 11 2016 01:21 DucK- wrote:
On August 10 2016 21:27 wims80 wrote:
Saksa is vastly underrated IMO. He was one of the first players that reached 8k, he's v v strong


He and yapzor are players to look out for if they get in a top team!


Why not let DC stick together and work up to a point where Misery doesn't have to do all the captaining alone and instead they can work together as a cohesive unit in all the games they play? So far, the games they've lost it mostly seemed like they were just faltering in their teamwork (feeding 1 by 1, not being able to execute teamfights properly), which is something that can be improved upon over the span of a year.

I mean, I don't see any particular weakness in any of their players. You can call out Moo if you like, but even the best Nyx players will miss a stun. And the attempted vendetta hit into stun against Naix is something that he now knows to avoid trying in the future. Moo seems aware of his own shortcomings and appears very dedicated to improving his own plays, based on the interview here on TL.

I hate all this "oh he's a good player, lets get him in a top team". Why not have some more Wings/CDEC instead of trying to funnel all players into existing "top" teams? Although CDEC fell apart because of precisely that funnelling, which also made me sad.


Well I don't really see this stack (and Escape) becoming the next OG/Liquid. Not saying he should leave or anything, don't get me wrong. But if he/yapzor were to be part of a top team, they can be the next cr1t/zai. They have the potential to have that sort of recognition.

Come again?


On August 11 2016 15:50 Anamorph wrote:
On August 11 2016 01:48 DucK- wrote:
On August 11 2016 01:45 a_flayer wrote:
On August 11 2016 01:21 DucK- wrote:
On August 10 2016 21:27 wims80 wrote:
Saksa is vastly underrated IMO. He was one of the first players that reached 8k, he's v v strong


He and yapzor are players to look out for if they get in a top team!


Why not let DC stick together and work up to a point where Misery doesn't have to do all the captaining alone and instead they can work together as a cohesive unit in all the games they play? So far, the games they've lost it mostly seemed like they were just faltering in their teamwork (feeding 1 by 1, not being able to execute teamfights properly), which is something that can be improved upon over the span of a year.

I mean, I don't see any particular weakness in any of their players. You can call out Moo if you like, but even the best Nyx players will miss a stun. And the attempted vendetta hit into stun against Naix is something that he now knows to avoid trying in the future. Moo seems aware of his own shortcomings and appears very dedicated to improving his own plays, based on the interview here on TL.

I hate all this "oh he's a good player, lets get him in a top team". Why not have some more Wings/CDEC instead of trying to funnel all players into existing "top" teams? Although CDEC fell apart because of precisely that funnelling, which also made me sad.


Well I don't really see this stack (and Escape) becoming the next OG/Liquid. Not saying he should leave or anything, don't get me wrong. But if he/yapzor were to be part of a top team, they can be the next cr1t/zai. They have the potential to have that sort of recognition.


That s an interesting prediction ; )
They got 2 proven major winner, in terms of carry performance a top 3 safelane carry, a 8k mmr supp player with high skill and moo.
I don t want to underrate moo, he is hard working and he is top 3 offlanes in NA.

They will have a great future if they stick. They also got players that are able to play each hero without an exception, from io to chen, to es to meepo. They got a lot of pubstars that naturally adjust fast with new meta hero pools.

I think in game 2 vs the series against EHOME last night we saw three-four players of EHOME agreeing with you and trying to stop Moo... and failing miserably. You can kill him once, you can kill him twice, but you can't keep him down ^_^ People in the live thread shitting on Moo's Timbersaw as well when he died those few times vs the 3-4 players of EHOME in his lane, including a bloody Nyx, which is an almost perfect counter to Timbersaw. Just ridiculous. Never mind the fact that this is, afaik, the first time he's been on a stage this big, or even in a pro team that can compete at this level.

I could not believe that the panel were all supporting EHOME at the start of the match. It's like they're not watching the same TI that I am, lol. And still, after they won, people are attributing DCs win to EHOME playing poorly when that's just what happens when you get SUNSFANNED.

I know they can beat Fnatic/MVP/Wings as well in terms of individual player skill and draft. It's just going to come down to whether they show up together as a team, which is entirely up to their mindset as they walk on stage. To me, it was absolutely clear that's why they lost the games that they lost.

EG might be a different beast, but purely because EG are absolutely working as a unit almost 100% of the time. It is very hard to break them. Even if one player of EG were to stand in the enemy fountain all game, he would be doing that for the team (for whatever reason).


They are having a good tournament no doubt. I still standby what I said. There won't be the level of consistency/dominance that og/liquid has shown, regardless of how high they finish here. Probably gonna do a Vega, albeit at the most important tournament. Feel free to quote me then when I'm wrong.

+ Show Spoiler +
I mean this jokingly, please don't be offended
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
common_cider
Profile Joined July 2011
342 Posts
August 25 2016 02:03 GMT
#454
reso has to be trolling us. he's acting like I'm LeBron taking my talents to Kiev T_T
Never eat at a chinese restraunt located by the pound
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
August 25 2016 02:31 GMT
#455
On August 24 2016 17:46 a_flayer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2016 16:40 Anamorph wrote:
If reso really left, I dont see a future for this squad, because he and w33 were an anglepoint and skillwise are the best in this team, not far away from saksa.
Because it seems to be clear, that the skilled carries (miracle- . .etc) are in different teams, there is nothing left with the potential of reso.

Based on these tweets, I get a strong feeling they're actually sticking together.
+ Show Spoiler +

https://twitter.com/w33haa/status/767612670296068097

https://twitter.com/Resolut1on_/status/767614860779716608


But it could go either way, I guess.
+ Show Spoiler +

https://twitter.com/Resolut1on_/status/768323172504571904


It might also be important to note that Resolution already survived one roster switch at DC where his entire team left, and still he stuck with sunsfan. I wouldn't be surprised if he actually felt dedicated to staying on the team despite being granted a bit of a star status. Still, its the post-TI roster shuffle and anything could happen. I'm desperately hoping they stick together for another year, as I did when I first saw them come into their own as a team at the TI group stages.

Not only because I really like the current DC roster, but also because I really want to stick it to DucK-:

Show nested quote +
On August 12 2016 15:52 DucK- wrote:
On August 12 2016 13:12 a_flayer wrote:
On August 11 2016 01:48 DucK- wrote:
On August 11 2016 01:45 a_flayer wrote:
On August 11 2016 01:21 DucK- wrote:
On August 10 2016 21:27 wims80 wrote:
Saksa is vastly underrated IMO. He was one of the first players that reached 8k, he's v v strong


He and yapzor are players to look out for if they get in a top team!


Why not let DC stick together and work up to a point where Misery doesn't have to do all the captaining alone and instead they can work together as a cohesive unit in all the games they play? So far, the games they've lost it mostly seemed like they were just faltering in their teamwork (feeding 1 by 1, not being able to execute teamfights properly), which is something that can be improved upon over the span of a year.

I mean, I don't see any particular weakness in any of their players. You can call out Moo if you like, but even the best Nyx players will miss a stun. And the attempted vendetta hit into stun against Naix is something that he now knows to avoid trying in the future. Moo seems aware of his own shortcomings and appears very dedicated to improving his own plays, based on the interview here on TL.

I hate all this "oh he's a good player, lets get him in a top team". Why not have some more Wings/CDEC instead of trying to funnel all players into existing "top" teams? Although CDEC fell apart because of precisely that funnelling, which also made me sad.


Well I don't really see this stack (and Escape) becoming the next OG/Liquid. Not saying he should leave or anything, don't get me wrong. But if he/yapzor were to be part of a top team, they can be the next cr1t/zai. They have the potential to have that sort of recognition.

Come again?


On August 11 2016 15:50 Anamorph wrote:
On August 11 2016 01:48 DucK- wrote:
On August 11 2016 01:45 a_flayer wrote:
On August 11 2016 01:21 DucK- wrote:
On August 10 2016 21:27 wims80 wrote:
Saksa is vastly underrated IMO. He was one of the first players that reached 8k, he's v v strong


He and yapzor are players to look out for if they get in a top team!


Why not let DC stick together and work up to a point where Misery doesn't have to do all the captaining alone and instead they can work together as a cohesive unit in all the games they play? So far, the games they've lost it mostly seemed like they were just faltering in their teamwork (feeding 1 by 1, not being able to execute teamfights properly), which is something that can be improved upon over the span of a year.

I mean, I don't see any particular weakness in any of their players. You can call out Moo if you like, but even the best Nyx players will miss a stun. And the attempted vendetta hit into stun against Naix is something that he now knows to avoid trying in the future. Moo seems aware of his own shortcomings and appears very dedicated to improving his own plays, based on the interview here on TL.

I hate all this "oh he's a good player, lets get him in a top team". Why not have some more Wings/CDEC instead of trying to funnel all players into existing "top" teams? Although CDEC fell apart because of precisely that funnelling, which also made me sad.


Well I don't really see this stack (and Escape) becoming the next OG/Liquid. Not saying he should leave or anything, don't get me wrong. But if he/yapzor were to be part of a top team, they can be the next cr1t/zai. They have the potential to have that sort of recognition.


That s an interesting prediction ; )
They got 2 proven major winner, in terms of carry performance a top 3 safelane carry, a 8k mmr supp player with high skill and moo.
I don t want to underrate moo, he is hard working and he is top 3 offlanes in NA.

They will have a great future if they stick. They also got players that are able to play each hero without an exception, from io to chen, to es to meepo. They got a lot of pubstars that naturally adjust fast with new meta hero pools.

I think in game 2 vs the series against EHOME last night we saw three-four players of EHOME agreeing with you and trying to stop Moo... and failing miserably. You can kill him once, you can kill him twice, but you can't keep him down ^_^ People in the live thread shitting on Moo's Timbersaw as well when he died those few times vs the 3-4 players of EHOME in his lane, including a bloody Nyx, which is an almost perfect counter to Timbersaw. Just ridiculous. Never mind the fact that this is, afaik, the first time he's been on a stage this big, or even in a pro team that can compete at this level.

I could not believe that the panel were all supporting EHOME at the start of the match. It's like they're not watching the same TI that I am, lol. And still, after they won, people are attributing DCs win to EHOME playing poorly when that's just what happens when you get SUNSFANNED.

I know they can beat Fnatic/MVP/Wings as well in terms of individual player skill and draft. It's just going to come down to whether they show up together as a team, which is entirely up to their mindset as they walk on stage. To me, it was absolutely clear that's why they lost the games that they lost.

EG might be a different beast, but purely because EG are absolutely working as a unit almost 100% of the time. It is very hard to break them. Even if one player of EG were to stand in the enemy fountain all game, he would be doing that for the team (for whatever reason).


They are having a good tournament no doubt. I still standby what I said. There won't be the level of consistency/dominance that og/liquid has shown, regardless of how high they finish here. Probably gonna do a Vega, albeit at the most important tournament. Feel free to quote me then when I'm wrong.

+ Show Spoiler +
I mean this jokingly, please don't be offended


:D Still needs to do well in subsequent tournaments to prove me wrong
common_cider
Profile Joined July 2011
342 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-25 19:22:12
August 25 2016 19:08 GMT
#456
puppey, pie, ppd, and moon may be available. WOuld be interesting if they picked up puppey to show there are no grudges in dota. It's about winning and money.

w33 just deleted +N tweet. moo also responded to Bulldog on twitter imnplying moon had a team.

it's almost certainly moon, but I want a puppey reunion
Never eat at a chinese restraunt located by the pound
Anamorph
Profile Joined September 2015
236 Posts
August 25 2016 19:43 GMT
#457
I can understand that decision.
Moon on paper seems to be the better offlaner in terms of the wider hero pool and more stable plays. He is also better in finding farm on the map and being able to play against a 3men safelane.

Moo shines when he gets a solo safelane draw, with timber then he rly transfers into a good game winning factor. He is hard working and seems to be a very calm person.

I dont know moon or even moo in person, from the interviews I saw I would clearly favor moo as a person and I think thats one of the important facts new captains are not thinking about. They focus on performance instead of team chemistry. Also it changes your drafts - this can transfer into less success because you re not familiar to the new style.

I am pretty sure it will fire back, a lesson people like ppy learned after years.
hariooo
Profile Joined October 2013
Canada2830 Posts
August 25 2016 20:48 GMT
#458
DC were doing terribly in general until they peaked ridiculously at TI. Shuffling now doesn't guarantee success but neither does keeping the same team. I'm sure Misery is making a difficult decision with the best information he has at hand.

I don't see much value in talking about team chemistry it's mostly unknown to the community. It seems somewhat unfair to criticize teams for making decisions based on some abstract notion of "clearly they'd have more success if they prioritized friendship over talent...".
Anamorph
Profile Joined September 2015
236 Posts
August 26 2016 13:13 GMT
#459
On August 26 2016 05:48 hariooo wrote:
DC were doing terribly in general until they peaked ridiculously at TI. Shuffling now doesn't guarantee success but neither does keeping the same team. I'm sure Misery is making a difficult decision with the best information he has at hand.

I don't see much value in talking about team chemistry it's mostly unknown to the community. It seems somewhat unfair to criticize teams for making decisions based on some abstract notion of "clearly they'd have more success if they prioritized friendship over talent...".


Maybe chemistry is the wrong word in english. But do you really think people can t compare the behaviour of someone by watching interviews and compare them.

One example:
Moon made an interview (epichats #8) where he was clearly pointing out, that there was a gap between him and 'others' (he is not namedroping) when it comes to taking the game serious. He seems to think, getting better has a lot to do with taking all games (scrims too) very serious and not clowning around.

Lets go on the other side.
Watch Moo and w33 interviews at TI6. Their basestatement was: we just had fun, we were clowning around, feeding one by one, laughing, yelling, screaming and making it a fun day. The w33 interview made there, I think by a russian caster (you can find it via youtube) shows a lot.

So now people here in the forum, and me too, start discussions about "how they work together". From my perspective the points moon made are not fitting into DC. DC handles pressure by having fun in game, making clowny moves and it fits their function as a team, because they really need to fight against the pressure at stage, like each team does. Their compensation is "the fun aspect". From this point of view - moo fits way better than moon, just based on that impression I have. It does not mean its correct, but still is an indicator.

My statement is, you can make statements about "how someone fits", because you got a base of statements that reflect different aspects of a personality. You can compare them, do what ever you want, but it s not just theory. There is a fundamental base to discuss this topics, because "famous" persons show parts of their personality. I agree - its just a small part, but still its a fundamental base to make statements.
hariooo
Profile Joined October 2013
Canada2830 Posts
August 26 2016 14:18 GMT
#460
There's a huge difference between a favoured team's preTI boot camp mentality and already being in TI and having very little expectations for the team.

im talking less about Moon vs Moo specifically then the notion that teams should always stick it out together as if that's a better guarantee of success. No team older than a year has ever won a valve event.
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