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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On May 09 2015 04:48 FHDH wrote: Yeah I mean who are NiP, only one of the top considerations for a European invite. ? nip didn't get invited EU got 4 invites (which is a lot) and it wasn't close | ||
Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
On May 09 2015 04:48 FHDH wrote: Yeah I mean who are NiP, only one of the top considerations for a European invite. For fanboys, I guess. And it's not because of their performance, but their stability. | ||
FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On May 09 2015 04:49 Sn0_Man wrote: ? nip didn't get invited EU got 4 invites (which is a lot) and it wasn't close I didn't have them in my brackets because they weren't one of the top four. And no it wasn't close. But if you go outside the top four it's extremely tight with them and the nearest. NiP have been quite good. Obviously not top-tier. No one is contending BU was either. Of course, NiP has been on a slide too. Hooooraaaaaaaaaaaaaay | ||
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Matthias_
Netherlands89 Posts
On May 09 2015 04:34 Tephus wrote: If you consider beating NiP or middle-of-roster-changes Na`vi a big win for them, then we are in agreement that they generally don't belong in the same 'tier'. Well you mentioned it as 'big' which implies you didn't consider the Empire an actual big win in the first place. I'd rank Na'vi and NiP at roughly the same level, Na'vi slightly lower at that point in time cause their performances were awful. But NiP and Empire 1-1'd around that time. So I'd say that at that point in time they were equal, unless it was a clear outdraft from either team. | ||
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Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
On May 09 2015 05:06 FHDH wrote: I didn't have them in my brackets because they weren't one of the top four. And no it wasn't close. But if you go outside the top four it's extremely tight with them and the nearest. NiP have been quite good. Obviously not top-tier. No one is contending BU was either. Of course, NiP has been on a slide too. Hooooraaaaaaaaaaaaaay It was maybe close between a couple teams not named NiP. The problem wasn;t that you were saying burden was top tier, it was that you were contending that BU belonged in the same discussion as other much-better teams: Na'Vi - outside chance of qualifying NiP - close to 0 chance of qualifying Alliance - Good chance of qualifying Tinker - Good chance of qualifying Newbee - invited HR - Decent chance of qualifying Burden - ?!?!? Your list, not mine. | ||
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Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
On May 09 2015 05:06 Matthias_ wrote: Well you mentioned it as 'big' which implies you didn't consider the Empire an actual big win in the first place. I'd rank Na'vi and NiP at roughly the same level, Na'vi slightly lower at that point in time cause their performances were awful. But NiP and Empire 1-1'd around that time. So I'd say that at that point in time they were equal, unless it was a clear outdraft from either team. It was a poor choice of grammar on my side, I was attempting to add emphasis. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On May 09 2015 05:14 Tephus wrote: It was maybe close between a couple teams not named NiP. The problem wasn;t that you were saying burden was top tier, it was that you were contending that BU belonged in the same discussion as other much-better teams: Na'Vi - outside chance of qualifying NiP - close to 0 chance of qualifying Alliance - Good chance of qualifying Tinker - Good chance of qualifying Newbee - invited HR - Decent chance of qualifying Burden - ?!?!? Your list, not mine. I know it was my list, I did write it. Burden out the gate looked about the same level as VPP. They looked to be on the verge of becoming legit. But let's go through that list: Na'Vi: Has mostly looked like trash since TI4 with emotionally crushing flashes of promise NiP: Until recent weeks looked quite competitive. They were mostly losing to teams that were invited to TI5. Alliance: Same as Na'Vi except with their very recent roster changes have suddenly looked like contenders Tinker: Only stand a chance of qualifying because they are in NA Newbee: There's a debate about this. They did look like *complete trash* at DAC but there are justifications for inviting them and they may be better than they've been performing. HR: No better chance at qualifying than NiP, let's be real. Burden: ... Still has ~61% winrate after losing 8 of their last 9. Their two most recent losses, their captain was absent. They got knocked out of two tournaments on the same day with their captain missing. Them having a competent captain - which is how MyNuts certainly appeared - is a big part of assessing them as possible up-and-comers -- which is how I assessed them. Not as guys who were going to get invited to TI some shit. Oh look, they were invited to qualifiers, like every other team on that list except the TI4 champions. Holy shit. Here's my list, again: Na'Vi NiP Alliance Tinker Newbee HR Burden United Here's Valve's list for EU: Vega Burden PR NiP Alliance London Conspiracy HR 4ASC It's easy in retrospect to go oh, well they went on a total nosedive and are losing to teams they once would have won against, and are getting crushed by teams they would have been competitive with, so your analysis was FACTUALLY INCORRECT. But that's not how forecasting analysis works. You can make good analysis that still turns out to be wrong. Based on watching Burden's games they definitely looked like they had potential. Something has clearly gone wrong and denying that is just silly. Even if their potential was less than I thought it was (which is literally impossible to prove), they are far, far worse than they were. They basically look like Tinker during their worst times. | ||
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Murkinlol
United States366 Posts
The qualifiers are 3 weeks away and a lot can happen in that time. For example, 3 weeks ago Burden have only dropped like 1 or 2 Bo3s since forming and now they have lost 5 in a row. 3 weeks ago Navi beat Tinker, Hellraisers, VP, and Empire, now they've lost 3 Bo3s in a row this week. Anything can happen during these EU qualifiers. Whichever team practices the most, drafts and executes the best on that day, will advance. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On May 09 2015 05:56 Murkinlol wrote: Debating "tiers" between these uninvited teams is just ridiculous. Sure you'd pick Alliance over LC for example but it wouldn't be a surprise if LC would take 3-4 Bo3s out of 10 off Alliance. There isn't enough of a gap between the best teams of these 9 and the worst teams of these 9 to warrant some tier list. The qualifiers are 3 weeks away and a lot can happen in that time. For example, 3 weeks ago Burden have only dropped like 1 or 2 Bo3s since forming and now they have lost 5 in a row. 3 weeks ago Navi beat Tinker, Hellraisers, VP, and Empire, now they've lost 3 Bo3s in a row this week. Anything can happen during these EU qualifiers. Whichever team practices the most, drafts and executes the best on that day, will advance. Right. And what it won't do is settle the question of who is the best team in the group. It will only decide who is going to TI. | ||
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Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
On May 09 2015 05:56 Murkinlol wrote: For example, 3 weeks ago Burden have only dropped like 1 or 2 Bo3s since forming and now they have lost 5 in a row. 3 weeks ago Navi beat Tinker, Hellraisers, VP, and Empire, now they've lost 3 Bo3s in a row this week. Before 3 weeks ago, 1-2 polar 1-2 m5 0-2 Vega 0-2 BBC Please don't just make things up. They tied 3 bo3s(pr, hr, alliance), and won 11(f3, yellowsub, goomba, col, crucial, bbc, navi, bbc, vega, empire, nip). Playing mostly against bad teams will inflate your winrate. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
Only HR was a team that stayed together and got better and better each month (ask Envy he said so himself), but all other teams form and see if they win some to maybe earn a sponsorship, else disbanderino. Dota2 doesnt seem a teamesport at all. | ||
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Murkinlol
United States366 Posts
On May 09 2015 07:06 Tephus wrote: Before 3 weeks ago, 1-2 polar 1-2 m5 0-2 Vega 0-2 BBC Please don't just make things up. They tied 3 bo3s(pr, hr, alliance), and won 11(f3, yellowsub, goomba, col, crucial, bbc, navi, bbc, vega, empire, nip). Playing mostly against bad teams will inflate your winrate. Ok, I didn't bother to go through their entire match history like you have, excuse me. My point still stands, 3 weeks is a long time and teams can change form quickly. Their winrate was high because they were playing well and they were beating navi, empire, nip so it's not that hard for people to put them on par with those teams. It wouldn't be a surprise if they hit that form again during these qualifiers because we have seen it before. | ||
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Furikawari
France2522 Posts
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goody153
44236 Posts
fwosh on the burden united bootcamp | ||
Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On May 09 2015 23:15 goody153 wrote: https://instagram.com/p/2dstMpmBKo/ fwosh on the burden united bootcamp I think that was Burden during their match against Empire, actually | ||
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Rodrak
United States165 Posts
On May 09 2015 23:17 Elyvilon wrote: I think that was Burden during their match against Empire, actually It is indeed | ||
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cuckoo
595 Posts
after this game 1 between empire vs vici i'm not even mad about the loss today. | ||
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Furikawari
France2522 Posts
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Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
On May 09 2015 20:26 Furikawari wrote: The haters should watch the on going game... Watch them lose? Was it entertaining or something? | ||
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Furikawari
France2522 Posts
On May 10 2015 03:21 Tephus wrote: Watch them lose? Was it entertaining or something? Stubborness has limits... | ||
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