Team Secret Discussion - Page 202

On August 18 2016 10:53 hariooo wrote:


One day EE will get the criticism he derserves but it is not today. Not only has he mentioned being happy to be relieved of the burden of captaincy I really wonder in what world you can look at EE's 2013-2016 career and call him a bad player.

On August 18 2016 17:39 nayumi wrote:

I call it how I see it. So you're saying his recent performance (including TI6) was him being "happy" and "relieved of captaincy burden". He's remembered more for his "EE's moments" which already speaks a lot of volume. It means that he often made bad mistakes at crucial moments which led to his teams losing big. So yes, that's my definition of a "not good player". He didn't win anything significant before joining Secret, his only Valve event championship was pretty much on the back of w33 and PLD. His signature "carry making space" often resulted in stupid feeds which most of the times lost him the game.

His biggest accomplishments were forming C9 after the Alliance's kick and giving birth to Rtz. Full stop. He's influential as a captain and a leader, both in/off game. But no he's not a good Dota player in my book. I give credit where it's due. I'm sorry if you want more from me, I just can't.

On August 18 2016 10:38 TomatoBisque wrote:

To add on to what to spudde said (and again only responding to you because you're asking), the irony of the Liquid flair is that Kuro has a history as a choker in high pressure LAN situations, and you can even see this in Liquid's results throughout the year--Liquid overall did worse than Secret if you look at pure monetary earnings, and the overall prestige of their results is at least comparable--Secret won a major and finished 2nd in another. They did worse at TI but had more top LAN wins (all in the fall though). They made about 50% more money throughout the season (2 mil vs. 1.3 mil)

edit: supposedly (and this is just hearsay), Bulba would argue with Puppey during drafts

On August 18 2016 18:13 Dysisa wrote:

MLG Columbus wasn't significant?

Now I'm anything but an EE fan, but I think you give him far less credit than he deserves. You're (almost) correct on his lack of first place finishes, but all those second place finishes C9 were famous for are nothing to scoff at. Constantly getting second might not mean you're the best, but it does mean you're still better than most.

On August 19 2016 00:57 pyrocumulus wrote:
I really do think this all comes down to us not knowing what's going on behind closed doors. We can guess at what happened to make them lose, whose fault it was, and whether or not EE is a good pro player, but really, we don't even know what's going on in the matches (communication-wise).

On August 19 2016 08:22 LemOn wrote:
These are not individual mishaps, it's their shot calling in game and coordination in heated moments... A team like this has to either stick together for a very long time to get used to each other and move as one unit... Or not exist at all as I doubt they will ever adapt the one overriding führer go to shot caller that has the last word in fights as is Innocence, PPD, and like rotk and xiao8 were at ti4 and I assume Kuro is at Liquid that can start winning relatively quickly as they only have to learn to listen to one voice instead of multiple shot callers trying long and hard to find harmony.

On August 19 2016 08:22 LemOn wrote:
I watched their last game at TI at .25 and the issue isn't Envy at all, both he and RTZ went in in the wrong times when team was retreating and vice versa, Envy played really well with Illusions , farming.
RTZ got caught at top when farming in a typical bait scenario. Sedms like an easy pick off, trap is sprung, Secret that were all at the side of the map wipe LGD. Except they didn't, they were 10 seconds away, clumped up.

Same with Envy at bottom left push...first the whole team clumps up for curse and all 4 kill him, LGD fake retreats with half health under moonlight shadow and Envy goes in to use the buyback and full health...and nobody follows.

Same when puppey swapped mirana they could kill her if all focused her...Instead only 2guys start hitting her others aren't nearby, save by wyvern comes, mirana pops cheese instead of being blown up.

These are not individual mishaps, it's their shot calling in game and coordination in heated moments... A team like this has to either stick together for a very long time to get used to each other and move as one unit... Or not exist at all as I doubt they will ever adapt the one overriding führer go to shot caller that has the last word in fights as is Innocence, PPD, and like rotk and xiao8 were at ti4 and I assume Kuro is at Liquid that can start winning relatively quickly as they only have to learn to listen to one voice instead of multiple shot callers trying long and hard to find harmony.

On August 18 2016 17:39 nayumi wrote:

I call it how I see it. So you're saying his recent performance (including TI6) was him being "happy" and "relieved of captaincy burden". He's remembered more for his "EE's moments" which already speaks a lot of volume. It means that he often made bad mistakes at crucial moments which led to his teams losing big. So yes, that's my definition of a "not good player". He didn't win anything significant before joining Secret, his only Valve event championship was pretty much on the back of w33 and PLD. His signature "carry making space" often resulted in stupid feeds which most of the times lost him the game.

His biggest accomplishments were forming C9 after the Alliance's kick and giving birth to Rtz. Full stop. He's influential as a captain and a leader, both in/off game. But no he's not a good Dota player in my book. I give credit where it's due. I'm sorry if you want more from me, I just can't.