EPT3rd game I suppose the kills from the early smoke from Alliance and getting caught by the laning choices is something that may sometimes happen, not sure if they could have made some adjustments by moving the Wisp to help top. I don't think the issue there was nearly as much about the draft as it was against about getting caught out before the horn and Alliance getting the better of the laning choices. Had Secret had the lanes they wanted, they would have been completely fine.
Team Secret Discussion - Page 157
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spudde123
4814 Posts
3rd game I suppose the kills from the early smoke from Alliance and getting caught by the laning choices is something that may sometimes happen, not sure if they could have made some adjustments by moving the Wisp to help top. I don't think the issue there was nearly as much about the draft as it was against about getting caught out before the horn and Alliance getting the better of the laning choices. Had Secret had the lanes they wanted, they would have been completely fine. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
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trollcenter
362 Posts
This passivity seems to be a strategic problem since the new roster was formed, most of the times they simply stand back letting the enemy teams do whatever they want, doesn't seem like Secret has solid gameplans right now. The execution isn't there either, they very often look like they're on a different page. Hope they actually start playing more tournaments and reach their true potential, it would be sad to see them have internal issues before reaching that happens. | ||
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BigO
Sweden956 Posts
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Faruko
Chile34171 Posts
And in dota, dumb moves arent exactly weird to happen | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On May 13 2016 21:04 BigO wrote: So I am just curious, is RTZ really that brilliant of a carry nowadays. I mean, yes he still farms faster then most. But from the games I have watched he kind of gets out of position more often then he should and he doesn't seem like he is fighting very well (might just be a team issue). What I'm tryinbg to say is, RTZ is one of the best cores in dota at farming, but is that really that valuable for teams nowadays? This event he definitely at times played too far forward. For example in the DP game against NB, 2nd DK game against VP. I suppose the Razor game against A too as far as lane goes. Not sure if it is something that is just in his instincts due to how he has played a lot of the time in his career. Pretty much always Arteezy has played the "anchor" in his team, being the one who is very farmed and stands in front, and often times he has had PPD or Puppey with a defensive support behind him. Maybe he can get rid of it, maybe he can't, idk. Sometimes you need to be the one who baits your teammate out and stands in the backline. But in general I don't think Arteezy's individual performance was something that should be a primary concern for Secret. They need to make the drafts work in a way where they get something out of their supports, at least this far they didn't show they can play some of the stronger support heroes and in general they don't feel too effective early game. And also it feels to me that they have some weird issues in the midgame where they don't really know what to do and just smoke to run around for nothing. Probably it is related to the drafts as well, if they are confident in their lineup it's easier to stay calm and make good decisions. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On May 13 2016 21:04 BigO wrote: So I am just curious, is RTZ really that brilliant of a carry nowadays. I mean, yes he still farms faster then most. But from the games I have watched he kind of gets out of position more often then he should and he doesn't seem like he is fighting very well (might just be a team issue). What I'm tryinbg to say is, RTZ is one of the best cores in dota at farming, but is that really that valuable for teams nowadays? Aui can farm faster on certain heroes, yet he is not considered as one of the best carries out there. Yes he havent been playing that role in more than 3 years but the ones that remember the old Dignitas days will remember how fast he can farm. That didnt help him when he got kicked from EG after wining TI. So skill has nothing to do with that - most players that are in the top tier teams are good enough - problem is when the owners decide that one roster will earn more money through pure advertising than the other. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On May 13 2016 21:31 NInoff wrote: Aui can farm faster on certain heroes, yet he is not considered as one of the best carries out there. Yes he havent been playing that role in more than 3 years but the ones that remember the old Dignitas days will remember how fast he can farm. That didnt help him when he got kicked from EG after wining TI. So skill has nothing to do with that - most players that are in the top tier teams are good enough - problem is when the owners decide that one roster will earn more money through pure advertising than the other. Pretty sure that had nothing to do with the roster change.. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On May 13 2016 21:33 spudde123 wrote: Pretty sure that had nothing to do with the roster change.. Yeah, that was a really weird post. To be honest, I think everyone on Secret (arguable exception of EE) has been playing very poorly. It's hard to analyse what the exact problem is - I mean, not to pick on him, but why did Arteezy die before the horn game 3, for instance? There doesn't seem a good reason for that, and he's plainly capable of playing much better. I think that's just a microcosm for all of Secret's problems: individuals not playing as well as they can. Maybe they're just not comfortable together yet, or maybe they're just on tilt. Hard to say. But I still think they have the ingredients to win and I'm not too worried yet. | ||
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Souldivnr
Cuba127 Posts
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caiovigg
Brazil1802 Posts
I know secret won last one and valve always invite the last winner, but secret will have won ONE bo3 in the time spam between their roster change and manila. People were bashing the LGD invite because they "only got invited because they won 2 BO3 at starladder". I don't agree with the LGD invite (12 invites were really bad) and I agreed with the secret invite when it was announced, but now that they played everything they had to play before manila and it was a complete disaster this got me thinking. Maybe put some kind of rule of minimum games played or minimum games won for the invite? | ||
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Souldivnr
Cuba127 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
The events that happen after the invites go out are totally irrelevant for who was deserving for an invite to Manila. However, these things may matter for TI. Imo Secret is likely in the same position in Manila as they were going into Shanghai, if they don't perform well they will lose their invite status. It is possible that Valve invites all the major winners to TI or something, but it's also possible that they don't do that and look at the more recent times, in which case Secret needs a good placing. | ||
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Lafril
Belgium9 Posts
Also I see that RTZ and Universe are too eager for proving themselves in this new setting, that it allows the other teams to play this in their favor. I am looking more to see what Puppey is planning to do with his leadership... Still a good training does not do any damage them | ||
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
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t3rm1nal
Italy37 Posts
I think they will figure out soon or later how to play together...but ... it's painful now. | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
From last december until march we heard the exact same haters spiel the exact same shit. People saying "I told you so" before a major tournament has even been played are just interested in being edgy | ||
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Faruko
Chile34171 Posts
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
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Faruko
Chile34171 Posts
Why not wait untill major/ti ? That major/ti is disproportionate doesnt means jack shit, they still want to win. i really doubt that once you are inside the game you say "oh who cares, this tournament is crappy in terms of money, lets just lose" I dont think thats an excuse tbh... theres a reason why teams like EG and Secret came here, and that is to win, money comes after (after you realize you won the tournament and you have thousands of dollars in your pocket) | ||
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