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On October 24 2015 17:17 trollcenter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 17:16 Racket wrote:On October 21 2015 16:51 unkkz wrote:On October 21 2015 02:35 trollcenter wrote:On October 21 2015 01:18 Piledriver wrote:On October 20 2015 19:37 unkkz wrote:
Anything puppey touches just turns into freaking gold. You guys talk as if Puppey is playing with a bunch of noname 5kers, but honestly, Misery, EE and arguably PLD have always been on top tier teams. EE might not have first place finishes, but he has had more success than almost every other team/player on the western scene for the past couple of years apart from EG and Secret. The way I see it is these players have been trying for years to win tournaments, yet they got a title on their 2nd try under Puppey's leadership, you can't deny he's had a big impact. Same could be said about PPD too, the guy can lead you to success you wouldn't have had otherwise, provided you're at a certain skill level yourself. The fact that Puppey won with different rosters throughout the years shows that his leadership is the biggest difference maker, especially when it comes to players who weren't considered championship winning material based on their previous teams. You give someone like Ppy or PPD some skilled players who can't win with other teams, they'll make them win. This. Besides being very succesfull in Dota 1, Puppey kept Na'Vi in check and succesful with different lineups. He left Na'vi and Na'vi has been in shambles ever since. Secret was an instant success even in it's first non allstar lineup conception, it did ofcourse get even better with it's allstar lineup later on. And now, taking Misery whom tbh i have never been properly impressed by, pub star w33ha, and feeder PLD together with "cannot win lategame to save my fucking life EE" and be succesful. Sure these are no slouch players but as to on paper talent they are no old Secret and no EG. Goo captaining, good strategy and good drafting matters an awful lot in dota, and Puppey just seems to excell at all of it. Yea well, one thing is saying that Puppey excels at something or has an understanding that not every other player/captain has. That is a given, he is one of the best out there, but he has his ups and downs as any person out there. The thing is Puppey's fans are so blind that when his team performs bad or sucks it is never his fault and when his team wins it is all thanks to him. Back when Secret sucked bad and s4 took care of drafting, no Puppey fan recognized he was not up to the task, and even when Secret began to rise once again thanks to s4, they kept saying it was all Puppey's doing. Think about it this way, Dota is a religion, Puppey is the Pope, and when things go bad the believers start a witch hunt that will never point in the Pope's direction. I just hope Secret hits no slump, otherwise the other four players will begin to suffer the insufferable and this thread will be filled with w33ha sucks, no cheats no wins!!! PLD -> DDD and fEEd-sama's curse is back!.. etc. Uhm, Puppey had his slumps that he admitted himself and flaws that he's really well known for in the community (his stubbornness with certain picks, extreme greediness at times etc). He also had periods where he wasn't adapting well to meta at all and he was heavily criticized for that. Also, back when s4 started drafting and Secret started winning as a result, people talked about that ALOT, you can easily verify that if you look at old tournament threads. S4 really was the better choice for that group of players, Team Secret's drafts and plays became more stable with him and a big part of the community acknowledged that, I don't even know where you had to browse to see more praise for Puppey as the leader than for S4 back then. Unless you're one of those guys that's bothered whenever you see someone praising Puppey, even if it's in the minority. Anyway, Secret was a weird team due to having many strong personalities(egos) and different opinions about the game, it was pretty much the only time when a Puppey team switched captains around (they even had zai draft). I wouldn't call it proof that Puppey wasn't able to lead them though, they got 3rd at DAC as a newly formed team under him after all. But he was more unstable than s4, he'd give away picks that he couldn't beat, he'd try stuff that wouldn't work, whereas under S4, their drafts were just solid. Not too crazy, but solid. He also had slumps in Na'Vi, I remember him picking outdated heros like DP for Dendi and don't know what for Xboct, stuff they weren't comfortable on and that wasn't strong in the meta. He got alot of blame for that as well. Anyway, there's no point in taking things away from him because he had slumps as well (and he got criticized a lot for them, let's not act like he's been treated like a Dota god who could make no mistakes). Let's not act as if guys like EE and PLD (who hadn't won a tournament in 2 years), Misery (played since the start of Dota 2, didn't win a single LAN) and w33haa (pubstar) were likely to win a tournament like this without a captain like Puppey. It's not ALL thanks to him, these guys are skilled and earned their victory, but it's simply not realistic to act like he wasn't a big reason for their victory. He's still the most consistent player/captain in Dota in terms of results, even with his ups and downs. That's the most interesting thing to me, he always bounces back strong. The fans that praise him no matter what are in the minority, the general trend you see is based on his current form. He wins a tournament, like he recently did, he gets praised. He gets outdrafted and loses, he gets flamed. Just like with any other players.
Did you read what I wrote?
1. Right here in this very thread, people even couldn't acknowledge he was relieved from drafting/captain-ship, one of the arguments was that he held the prize in the middle of the group at ESL.
2. That was explained by Ppy, he wanted everyone try drafting to learn and understand the plans behind picking certain heroes and promote team cohesion.
3. I explicitly said he is one of the best out there, I never took something away from him. But back in NaVi, when he himself recognized he and Kuro were having problems adapting to the new support movements TI4 required, people were still blaming it on Xboct and CONTRADICTING Puppey while doing so.
4. I don't know if you troll each and every time, but do you even read Liquiddota? Even when he gets outdrafted, plenty of people try to defend him saying if the team executed his draft properly they would overcome the outdraft.
Also, last week Secret was already called the best team in the world at the moment, even by casters. I see the flaming coming, it is so close. Maybe not this tournament but next one or the one after for sure.
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On October 27 2015 18:52 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 17:17 trollcenter wrote:On October 21 2015 17:16 Racket wrote:On October 21 2015 16:51 unkkz wrote:On October 21 2015 02:35 trollcenter wrote:On October 21 2015 01:18 Piledriver wrote:On October 20 2015 19:37 unkkz wrote:
Anything puppey touches just turns into freaking gold. You guys talk as if Puppey is playing with a bunch of noname 5kers, but honestly, Misery, EE and arguably PLD have always been on top tier teams. EE might not have first place finishes, but he has had more success than almost every other team/player on the western scene for the past couple of years apart from EG and Secret. The way I see it is these players have been trying for years to win tournaments, yet they got a title on their 2nd try under Puppey's leadership, you can't deny he's had a big impact. Same could be said about PPD too, the guy can lead you to success you wouldn't have had otherwise, provided you're at a certain skill level yourself. The fact that Puppey won with different rosters throughout the years shows that his leadership is the biggest difference maker, especially when it comes to players who weren't considered championship winning material based on their previous teams. You give someone like Ppy or PPD some skilled players who can't win with other teams, they'll make them win. This. Besides being very succesfull in Dota 1, Puppey kept Na'Vi in check and succesful with different lineups. He left Na'vi and Na'vi has been in shambles ever since. Secret was an instant success even in it's first non allstar lineup conception, it did ofcourse get even better with it's allstar lineup later on. And now, taking Misery whom tbh i have never been properly impressed by, pub star w33ha, and feeder PLD together with "cannot win lategame to save my fucking life EE" and be succesful. Sure these are no slouch players but as to on paper talent they are no old Secret and no EG. Goo captaining, good strategy and good drafting matters an awful lot in dota, and Puppey just seems to excell at all of it. Yea well, one thing is saying that Puppey excels at something or has an understanding that not every other player/captain has. That is a given, he is one of the best out there, but he has his ups and downs as any person out there. The thing is Puppey's fans are so blind that when his team performs bad or sucks it is never his fault and when his team wins it is all thanks to him. Back when Secret sucked bad and s4 took care of drafting, no Puppey fan recognized he was not up to the task, and even when Secret began to rise once again thanks to s4, they kept saying it was all Puppey's doing. Think about it this way, Dota is a religion, Puppey is the Pope, and when things go bad the believers start a witch hunt that will never point in the Pope's direction. I just hope Secret hits no slump, otherwise the other four players will begin to suffer the insufferable and this thread will be filled with w33ha sucks, no cheats no wins!!! PLD -> DDD and fEEd-sama's curse is back!.. etc. Uhm, Puppey had his slumps that he admitted himself and flaws that he's really well known for in the community (his stubbornness with certain picks, extreme greediness at times etc). He also had periods where he wasn't adapting well to meta at all and he was heavily criticized for that. Also, back when s4 started drafting and Secret started winning as a result, people talked about that ALOT, you can easily verify that if you look at old tournament threads. S4 really was the better choice for that group of players, Team Secret's drafts and plays became more stable with him and a big part of the community acknowledged that, I don't even know where you had to browse to see more praise for Puppey as the leader than for S4 back then. Unless you're one of those guys that's bothered whenever you see someone praising Puppey, even if it's in the minority. Anyway, Secret was a weird team due to having many strong personalities(egos) and different opinions about the game, it was pretty much the only time when a Puppey team switched captains around (they even had zai draft). I wouldn't call it proof that Puppey wasn't able to lead them though, they got 3rd at DAC as a newly formed team under him after all. But he was more unstable than s4, he'd give away picks that he couldn't beat, he'd try stuff that wouldn't work, whereas under S4, their drafts were just solid. Not too crazy, but solid. He also had slumps in Na'Vi, I remember him picking outdated heros like DP for Dendi and don't know what for Xboct, stuff they weren't comfortable on and that wasn't strong in the meta. He got alot of blame for that as well. Anyway, there's no point in taking things away from him because he had slumps as well (and he got criticized a lot for them, let's not act like he's been treated like a Dota god who could make no mistakes). Let's not act as if guys like EE and PLD (who hadn't won a tournament in 2 years), Misery (played since the start of Dota 2, didn't win a single LAN) and w33haa (pubstar) were likely to win a tournament like this without a captain like Puppey. It's not ALL thanks to him, these guys are skilled and earned their victory, but it's simply not realistic to act like he wasn't a big reason for their victory. He's still the most consistent player/captain in Dota in terms of results, even with his ups and downs. That's the most interesting thing to me, he always bounces back strong. The fans that praise him no matter what are in the minority, the general trend you see is based on his current form. He wins a tournament, like he recently did, he gets praised. He gets outdrafted and loses, he gets flamed. Just like with any other players. Did you read what I wrote? 1. Right here in this very thread, people even couldn't acknowledge he was relieved from drafting/captain-ship, one of the arguments was that he held the prize in the middle of the group at ESL. 2. That was explained by Ppy, he wanted everyone try drafting to learn and understand the plans behind picking certain heroes and promote team cohesion. 3. I explicitly said he is one of the best out there, I never took something away from him. But back in NaVi, when he himself recognized he and Kuro were having problems adapting to the new support movements TI4 required, people were still blaming it on Xboct and CONTRADICTING Puppey while doing so. 4. I don't know if you troll each and every time, but do you even read Liquiddota? Even when he gets outdrafted, plenty of people try to defend him saying if the team executed his draft properly they would overcome the outdraft. Also, last week Secret was already called the best team in the world at the moment, even by casters. I see the flaming coming, it is so close. Maybe not this tournament but next one or the one after for sure.
You're basically basing your argument that Puppey's seen as a god that never does anything wrong on topics dedicated to fans of Team Secret or some other cherry picked moments, while I'm talking on a more general level. I already agreed with you that he has flaws and that he had ups and downs, no point to try and convince me of that. No point to act like he's not been criticized a lot when he was doing bad either, but you just choose to see those who were defending him.
When he gets outpicked, plenty of people defend him, the same way plenty of other people blame him. Why mention only the people that take his side? Also, during Secret's run with S4 captain, there were A LOT of people coming out to say how Puppey's overrated and A LOT of praise for S4 as a leader, certainly much more than that addressed to Puppey by people who still thought he was leading. That period was heaven for all Puppey anti-fans, who were all over the place claiming S4 taking over as proof of Puppey's inability as a leader.
Regarding him holding the trophy as proof that he's the captain, theat came from one guy around here (Mensol) who kept spamming that Puppey was still leading. Besides him there were very, very few with that opinion, you probably atribute his visibility to the opinion of a big part of the community or something.
A successful captain like him or PPD will inevitably have both a lot of fans and a lot of haters who thinks they're overrated. What you're complaining about with Puppey is that when he's doing bad, not EVERYONE acknowledges that. Yes, a lot of people criticize him, but there are many people defending him as well and there shouldn't be any. So you ignore those lots of people that are blaming him and pretend that the majority of the community is made up of his fans. You don't see things on a whole, you just have a thing that bothers you and focus on that even if it's just part of the real, bigger picture.
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On October 27 2015 19:37 trollcenter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 18:52 Racket wrote:On October 24 2015 17:17 trollcenter wrote:On October 21 2015 17:16 Racket wrote:On October 21 2015 16:51 unkkz wrote:On October 21 2015 02:35 trollcenter wrote:On October 21 2015 01:18 Piledriver wrote:On October 20 2015 19:37 unkkz wrote:
Anything puppey touches just turns into freaking gold. You guys talk as if Puppey is playing with a bunch of noname 5kers, but honestly, Misery, EE and arguably PLD have always been on top tier teams. EE might not have first place finishes, but he has had more success than almost every other team/player on the western scene for the past couple of years apart from EG and Secret. The way I see it is these players have been trying for years to win tournaments, yet they got a title on their 2nd try under Puppey's leadership, you can't deny he's had a big impact. Same could be said about PPD too, the guy can lead you to success you wouldn't have had otherwise, provided you're at a certain skill level yourself. The fact that Puppey won with different rosters throughout the years shows that his leadership is the biggest difference maker, especially when it comes to players who weren't considered championship winning material based on their previous teams. You give someone like Ppy or PPD some skilled players who can't win with other teams, they'll make them win. This. Besides being very succesfull in Dota 1, Puppey kept Na'Vi in check and succesful with different lineups. He left Na'vi and Na'vi has been in shambles ever since. Secret was an instant success even in it's first non allstar lineup conception, it did ofcourse get even better with it's allstar lineup later on. And now, taking Misery whom tbh i have never been properly impressed by, pub star w33ha, and feeder PLD together with "cannot win lategame to save my fucking life EE" and be succesful. Sure these are no slouch players but as to on paper talent they are no old Secret and no EG. Goo captaining, good strategy and good drafting matters an awful lot in dota, and Puppey just seems to excell at all of it. Yea well, one thing is saying that Puppey excels at something or has an understanding that not every other player/captain has. That is a given, he is one of the best out there, but he has his ups and downs as any person out there. The thing is Puppey's fans are so blind that when his team performs bad or sucks it is never his fault and when his team wins it is all thanks to him. Back when Secret sucked bad and s4 took care of drafting, no Puppey fan recognized he was not up to the task, and even when Secret began to rise once again thanks to s4, they kept saying it was all Puppey's doing. Think about it this way, Dota is a religion, Puppey is the Pope, and when things go bad the believers start a witch hunt that will never point in the Pope's direction. I just hope Secret hits no slump, otherwise the other four players will begin to suffer the insufferable and this thread will be filled with w33ha sucks, no cheats no wins!!! PLD -> DDD and fEEd-sama's curse is back!.. etc. Uhm, Puppey had his slumps that he admitted himself and flaws that he's really well known for in the community (his stubbornness with certain picks, extreme greediness at times etc). He also had periods where he wasn't adapting well to meta at all and he was heavily criticized for that. Also, back when s4 started drafting and Secret started winning as a result, people talked about that ALOT, you can easily verify that if you look at old tournament threads. S4 really was the better choice for that group of players, Team Secret's drafts and plays became more stable with him and a big part of the community acknowledged that, I don't even know where you had to browse to see more praise for Puppey as the leader than for S4 back then. Unless you're one of those guys that's bothered whenever you see someone praising Puppey, even if it's in the minority. Anyway, Secret was a weird team due to having many strong personalities(egos) and different opinions about the game, it was pretty much the only time when a Puppey team switched captains around (they even had zai draft). I wouldn't call it proof that Puppey wasn't able to lead them though, they got 3rd at DAC as a newly formed team under him after all. But he was more unstable than s4, he'd give away picks that he couldn't beat, he'd try stuff that wouldn't work, whereas under S4, their drafts were just solid. Not too crazy, but solid. He also had slumps in Na'Vi, I remember him picking outdated heros like DP for Dendi and don't know what for Xboct, stuff they weren't comfortable on and that wasn't strong in the meta. He got alot of blame for that as well. Anyway, there's no point in taking things away from him because he had slumps as well (and he got criticized a lot for them, let's not act like he's been treated like a Dota god who could make no mistakes). Let's not act as if guys like EE and PLD (who hadn't won a tournament in 2 years), Misery (played since the start of Dota 2, didn't win a single LAN) and w33haa (pubstar) were likely to win a tournament like this without a captain like Puppey. It's not ALL thanks to him, these guys are skilled and earned their victory, but it's simply not realistic to act like he wasn't a big reason for their victory. He's still the most consistent player/captain in Dota in terms of results, even with his ups and downs. That's the most interesting thing to me, he always bounces back strong. The fans that praise him no matter what are in the minority, the general trend you see is based on his current form. He wins a tournament, like he recently did, he gets praised. He gets outdrafted and loses, he gets flamed. Just like with any other players. Did you read what I wrote? 1. Right here in this very thread, people even couldn't acknowledge he was relieved from drafting/captain-ship, one of the arguments was that he held the prize in the middle of the group at ESL. 2. That was explained by Ppy, he wanted everyone try drafting to learn and understand the plans behind picking certain heroes and promote team cohesion. 3. I explicitly said he is one of the best out there, I never took something away from him. But back in NaVi, when he himself recognized he and Kuro were having problems adapting to the new support movements TI4 required, people were still blaming it on Xboct and CONTRADICTING Puppey while doing so. 4. I don't know if you troll each and every time, but do you even read Liquiddota? Even when he gets outdrafted, plenty of people try to defend him saying if the team executed his draft properly they would overcome the outdraft. Also, last week Secret was already called the best team in the world at the moment, even by casters. I see the flaming coming, it is so close. Maybe not this tournament but next one or the one after for sure. You're basically basing your argument that Puppey's seen as a god that never does anything wrong on topics dedicated to fans of Team Secret or some other cherry picked moments, while I'm talking on a more general level. I already agreed with you that he has flaws and that he had ups and downs, no point to try and convince me of that. No point to act like he's not been criticized a lot when he was doing bad either, but you just choose to see those who were defending him. When he gets outpicked, plenty of people defend him, the same way plenty of other people blame him. Why mention only the people that take his side? Also, during Secret's run with S4 captain, there were A LOT of people coming out to say how Puppey's overrated and A LOT of praise for S4 as a leader, certainly much more than that addressed to Puppey by people who still thought he was leading. That period was heaven for all Puppey anti-fans, who were all over the place claiming S4 taking over as proof of Puppey's inability as a leader. Regarding him holding the trophy as proof that he's the captain, theat came from one guy around here (Mensol) who kept spamming that Puppey was still leading. Besides him there were very, very few with that opinion, you probably atribute his visibility to the opinion of a big part of the community or something. A successful captain like him or PPD will inevitably have both a lot of fans and a lot of haters who thinks they're overrated. What you're complaining about with Puppey is that when he's doing bad, not EVERYONE acknowledges that. Yes, a lot of people criticize him, but there are many people defending him as well and there shouldn't be any. So you ignore those lots of people that are blaming him and pretend that the majority of the community is made up of his fans. You don't see things on a whole, you just have a thing that bothers you and focus on that even if it's just part of the real, bigger picture.
You are wrong, I am posting on a Secret thread, answering to the limited number people who also post here. If you want to see the big picture and extend the general (community's if you will) opinion to the people in this thread, then there is no point posting here at all.
I am quite able to see the big picture and if I refuse to use it as base to answer to a certain person or argument, it is just because that person or argument has nothing to do with the big picture.
What you have here is a mixture of fans of the players currently playing for the team, they usually defend theirs. If there is something going on around a certain player and anyone goes blind while defending him, I will try to state another point of view, hoping we can reach an understanding.
I am not trying to convince you of anything. If I somehow mistake the opinion of someone for something smaller than a bigger picture, it is only due to the develop of the thread or his/her writing.
I always try to know what is someone answering to, even if they don't use quotes, I usually even go three, four, five or six pages if I need to.
All in all, as Puppey does, I make mistakes too.
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you have to admit puppey's draft are so bad most of the time.people doesnt notice because most of the time he still win anyways.
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On October 27 2015 22:53 Papercappu wrote:
you have to admit puppey's draft are so bad most of the time.people doesnt notice because most of the time he still won anyways.
What? No.
How do you even dare say that? What is your base?
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On October 27 2015 23:15 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 22:53 Papercappu wrote:
you have to admit puppey's draft are so bad most of the time.people doesnt notice because most of the time he still win anyways. What? No. How do you even dare say that? What is your base?
its not that hard to see how bad his drafting is.recent games already proved enough.my favorite was Secret vs EG game 4 from MLG.he first pick slardar get countered by dark seer + ember.then he still pick squishy carry like PA.whole game was just dark seer getting so much space to blink vac.without good static storm there they're probably would've lost that game.most games on ESL was terrible aswell,gets too greedy with spectre and got pushed to death by fnatic.another greedy draft loss vs vega game 1,this one is just amateur level drafting.game 3 was pretty terrible too with offlane potm & forgetting about shadow demon after drafting CM but i give it a pass.
drafting weird stuff doesnt mean its good.he seems to focus more on good plays.good plays doesnt always beat good heroes
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On October 27 2015 23:45 Papercappu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 23:15 Racket wrote:On October 27 2015 22:53 Papercappu wrote:
you have to admit puppey's draft are so bad most of the time.people doesnt notice because most of the time he still win anyways. What? No. How do you even dare say that? What is your base? its not that hard to see how bad his drafting is.recent games already proved enough.my favorite was Secret vs EG game 4 from MLG.he first pick slardar get countered by dark seer + ember.then he still pick squishy carry like PA.whole game was just dark seer getting so much space to blink vac.without good static storm there they're probably would've lost that game.most games on ESL was terrible aswell,gets too greedy with spectre and got pushed to death by fnatic.another greedy draft loss vs vega game 1,this one is just amateur level drafting.game 3 was pretty terrible too with offlane potm & forgetting about shadow demon after drafting CM but i give it a pass. drafting weird stuff doesnt mean its good.he seems to focus more on good plays.good plays doesnt always beat good heroes
Weird drafts even if worse in comparison to solid/strong drafts have their advantages too, in the sense that the opponent lose focus if they are not able to figure out Secret's game plan or even if Secret can execute better and win the game by pure brute force.
As long as Puppey trusts his team's capabilities and they in return deliver execution to the level required to win the game, his leadership makes up for any poor or greedy draft. The problem comes when his team is not up to the task and he can't realize it making the same mistake over and over until his team is out of the tournament.
Leadership, drafting, greediness and adaptability, if all come together in one man, and he is aware, I don't see anything wrong in that.
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I'm confused how Dark Seer + Ember supposedly counters Slardar. A lot of the time I see the matchup I see Slardar doing well against Ember specifically, he has a good stun on a low cd and gives his team a big physical damage burst to kill the Ember quickly during that stun. Unless I'm misreading datdota Slardar is 19-12 against Ember in this patch. Also he is definitely not drafting alone, I would imagine EE has a lot of say in a situation like that where his hero is the last pick and they go for PA.
This event imo Secret's worst draft was against Fnatic g2. In their loss against EHOME they played like they were drunk for quite a while, and g1 against LGD had some very unforced errors from them too. I don't think their draft was the big issue in either of those games.
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Ember has crappy armor and is never gonna build any sort of armor item, Slardar is great vs. that hero
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a decent blink - crush - ampliify and ember dies in like 2 hits, you just need that 1 extra stun or something to lock him after crush
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on lan, an ember should be able to remnant out of blink crush a decent portion of the time at the professional level
not that this is the "does slardar counter ember" thread but u know
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I don't think that is all that relevant, sometimes you may dodge a blink crush but often times you don't even need to be stunned like that but instead in the middle of a fight because Slardar's stun is up so often or as a follow up to something else. It's still a hero that has a very good uptime on a pretty long stun and the ability to make sure his team also kills you during that stun.
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On October 28 2015 01:30 Sn0_Man wrote:
on lan, an ember should be able to remnant out of blink crush a decent portion of the time at the professional level
not that this is the "does slardar counter ember" thread but u know
But sometimes if his 80% dodge rate fails the first two times, the game could just be over. And there's no arguing with the second point so I'll hush up.
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but sometimes if u fuck up u lose dota?
yep that seems accurate
I do find it interesting how often pro teams talk about how "execution heavy" the lineups they draft are compared to other teams etc.
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On October 28 2015 00:12 spudde123 wrote:
I'm confused how Dark Seer + Ember supposedly counters Slardar. A lot of the time I see the matchup I see Slardar doing well against Ember specifically, he has a good stun on a low cd and gives his team a big physical damage burst to kill the Ember quickly during that stun. Unless I'm misreading datdota Slardar is 19-12 against Ember in this patch. Also he is definitely not drafting alone, I would imagine EE has a lot of say in a situation like that where his hero is the last pick and they go for PA.
This event imo Secret's worst draft was against Fnatic g2. In their loss against EHOME they played like they were drunk for quite a while, and g1 against LGD had some very unforced errors from them too. I don't think their draft was the big issue in either of those games.
its not the ember.its the dark seer.he destroy slardar on lane.and he respond with PA after seeing the ember + dark seer.thats just too risky & your mid is lina.one vac wall half your hp gone.their teamfights was all over the place that game.i would've pick CK carry & mid QoP for better initiation & followup in fights.but puppey probably dont want to risk ember vs QoP mid matchup.i seriously hate that draft so much
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Puppey drafts somewhat atypically. Sometimes he looks like a genius, sometimes he does not. It's not always clear what the idea is going into a game so it's hard to tell whether the drafts that fail are because they're stupid or because of some mistake in judging the opposition or the team having a wrong idea about how they can play a hero or whatever. For example, a captain who's willing to listen to his teammate say "Yeah, I can win lane X vs. Y" who then loses it - is that the drafter's fault or the player's fault? Neither - it's just how things go when you are willing to think outside the box and push things against the "meta".
Even if you don't think Secret have great drafts, they plainly don't regularly terrible ones. The players are good, but they're not so ahead of everyone else that they could be a top team whilst always getting outdrafted.
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On October 28 2015 02:40 Papercappu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2015 00:12 spudde123 wrote:
I'm confused how Dark Seer + Ember supposedly counters Slardar. A lot of the time I see the matchup I see Slardar doing well against Ember specifically, he has a good stun on a low cd and gives his team a big physical damage burst to kill the Ember quickly during that stun. Unless I'm misreading datdota Slardar is 19-12 against Ember in this patch. Also he is definitely not drafting alone, I would imagine EE has a lot of say in a situation like that where his hero is the last pick and they go for PA.
This event imo Secret's worst draft was against Fnatic g2. In their loss against EHOME they played like they were drunk for quite a while, and g1 against LGD had some very unforced errors from them too. I don't think their draft was the big issue in either of those games. its not the ember.its the dark seer.he destroy slardar on lane.and he respond with PA after seeing the ember + dark seer.thats just too risky & your mid is lina.one vac wall half your hp gone.their teamfights was all over the place that game.i would've pick CK carry & mid QoP for better initiation & followup in fights.but puppey probably dont want to risk ember vs QoP mid matchup.i seriously hate that draft so much
What part of CK is good vs. Ember? His stun/rift, which have a long cast time and are easily dodgeable, or his ult, which die to a single sleight?
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think it's helen aka XiiTuzi on this site and twitter and reddit
she translates for teams at tournaments etc
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EPT
