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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
I think Vici is also in a rough spot. They clearly need a leader/drafter, but they do not want to break up their support duo. There's no other good leaders around in other positions. So if they want to go forward, I feel they just need to fully trust fy all the way. I dislike Super's drafts a lot because they feel very limited and exposed. It never feels like a good draft when they win, but more of a meltdown by their enemies or just outplay by Vici. | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
He's an excellent player and i hope he goes back to his best, but hes currently the most inconsistent one on VG, which is pretty funny considering he has ice3 and super as teammates | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On November 19 2015 15:26 Ultimo Hombre wrote: I think rotk left too early, fy is still VG's best drafter imo but his development as a drafter seems a bit stunted? It's obviously a key reason for their losses but lets also not pretend like burning has played really well this tournament. He was poor on qop (even against secret's lineup, blinking into 3 heroes after your team has already retreated, tping into 4?), poor on pl and god awful on slardar. Burning is also in an odd place now because the patch doesnt favour farming carries. Out of the ones that people play: am is situational, his gyro/pl is nothing special and super is a better ember player He's an excellent player and i hope he goes back to his best, but hes currently the most inconsistent one on VG, which is pretty funny considering he has ice3 and super as teammates Isn't super drafting right now? | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
ya i mean even if they go back to fy, there are still problems | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
They need a drafter that's it, I agree with whoever said RoTK should've stayed longer, but RotK was in Vici for sylar's bromance, and you can't say ice3 is a downgrade. People flame super a lot but he's not even that bad as people make it out to be. VG just favor their supports in term of money distribution and leave mid to die a lot, that's just how their style works and it's fine. | ||
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goody153
44202 Posts
I mean they played with both black and Hao, honestly burning seems to fit better than them , Hao is just better than both of them as a carry and individual skills but burning has better team synergy. | ||
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Kabras
Romania3508 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On November 19 2015 18:03 Kabras wrote: they just need to put fy mid and all their problems are over. super has the same issues as fata had in the old c9. he's really good at do shit melee cores but he gets heavily outclassed when he needs to play farmers or skillshot heroes. well alchemist's a farmer too but anyone can farm on that hero. the few games ive seen him play sf or lina turned out terrible for him and i don't remember the last time he played qop or ta. if i was 357 i'd be preparing this for the next big lan, fy's already a really good mid player and his hero pool is probably the largest on vg. Zyf Fy Ice3 Lanm Fenrir/kaka One can dream <: | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
pretty terrible dream..not too sold on zyf and idk why one can dream to break fy+fenrir support pair.. On November 19 2015 17:47 goody153 wrote: Burning's not bad (except maybe with razor lmao dude so bad with that hero). I'm not really sure if you burning needs to be replaced. I mean they played with both black and Hao, honestly burning seems to fit better than them , Hao is just better than both of them as a carry and individual skills but burning has better team synergy. i can agree with hao having more aggressive style than burning but when it comes to map awareness ,burning is definately better than hao and i dont think there is any gap between those two.. AND the biggest thing, they are still in this major and have a fair chance to get into grand finals ..i just hope,they dont tilt and draft random like they did yesterday in game 3.. | ||
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goody153
44202 Posts
It's just burning fits more to VG weird cause Hao was supposed to fit VG more cause he's the aggressive carry and VG just runs and kills people. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
and he is fitting more to VG because he is playing around VG more often than letting VG play around him..which is far different from what he used to play..VG can now leave him in one lane and he will get decent farm with VG supports getting farm ..but i can agree with VG supports need to protect super in mid more if they want him to win the lane | ||
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goody153
44202 Posts
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
Im pretty sure Hao was still the better fit to them. Heroes like doom, qop, all used to be played by Hao which was better, the 3rd game either VG just herpderped and thought doom disabled BB's passive or burning just kept dooming the BB for no apparent reason. There needs to be a big shake up in this team, the main 4 of iceiceice/fy/fenrir/super is limiting this team from reaching back to the greatness they were. Don't get me wrong, they are still the best few mechanically skilled heroes all around, but the way they play nowadays are really getting uninspiring. fy Fenrir on good days absolutely can destroy teams but with the meta now they keep getting weird support picks which throws off their game so hard | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On November 20 2015 21:13 Invictus wrote: There needs to be a big shake up in this team, the main 4 of iceiceice/fy/fenrir/super is limiting this team from reaching back to the greatness they were. Don't get me wrong, they are still the best few mechanically skilled heroes all around, but the way they play nowadays are really getting uninspiring. fy Fenrir on good days absolutely can destroy teams but with the meta now they keep getting weird support picks which throws off their game so hard i agree. they still have the skills and thats why they go far in most tournaments (ti,nanyang,frankfurt major) but the problem seems to be that their skill is the only thing they can rely on. their drafts are nothing special and i feel like the way they play around their midlane just doesnt work out vs the best teams. i dont think super as a player is the problem but he often gets heroes that need space (f. e. lina, ember) but fy and fenrir refuse to help during the laning stage if they want to focus on other parts of the map they should give him heroes that can comeback through teamfighting or pushing. ehome also tends to do that and oldchicken seems to always do fine later on | ||
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RiZu
Singapore5715 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
 Just crumbled vs Secret because of that pocket strat (game 3 they were clearly still tilted) And Ehome also caught them by surprise with their drafts Things that can be easily fixed. Qop and Doom are not Burning's best heroes but hey - he just needs to practice them more | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On November 20 2015 21:23 LemOn wrote: Good showing by VG overall no? Not sure why change anything Just crumbled vs Secret because of that pocket strat (game 3 they were clearly still tilted) And Ehome also caught them by surprise with their drafts Things that can be easily fixed you are not wrong. it just feels like vg has the skills to win events and not just come close | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
On November 20 2015 21:25 TRAP[yoo] wrote: you are not wrong. it just feels like vg has the skills to win events and not just come close Its also that they feel like their declining instead of improving over the past year, even though they placed pretty highly in a bunch of tournaments. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On November 20 2015 21:13 Invictus wrote: Yeah gg folks i hoped VG at least cracked top 2 but an earlier defeat would help alot more, VG has been stagnating too much even though all of them are individually skilled. Im pretty sure Hao was still the better fit to them. Heroes like doom, qop, all used to be played by Hao which was better, the 3rd game either VG just herpderped and thought doom disabled BB's passive or burning just kept dooming the BB for no apparent reason. There needs to be a big shake up in this team, the main 4 of iceiceice/fy/fenrir/super is limiting this team from reaching back to the greatness they were. Don't get me wrong, they are still the best few mechanically skilled heroes all around, but the way they play nowadays are really getting uninspiring. fy Fenrir on good days absolutely can destroy teams but with the meta now they keep getting weird support picks which throws off their game so hard it was for no apparent reason and it was not his alone descision...he doomed bristle for whole game...it was their team descision/shotcalling to doom bristle and kite his team around that ,but his team had fucking 4 healing heroes which VG couldnt deal with ...i think these 2 games were sold on shotcalling and mostly on drafting(as is the problem with super for whole major) people will still find a way to blame burning tho even if super drafted all the shit for him which he is not comfortable with . felt like super was trying to play 1 position most of the time sacrificing burning's farm / leaving him alone in the lane and when he lose the lane to opponent mid ,he then relies on his team to make space for him.. anyway,seasonal carry change for VG incoming ,i think...tho it never worked for them since 1 year and they didn't realized the real problem with the team which is drafting and shotcalling.and anyone should be insane for calling burning was the problem on this team...the guy gave it all after all the heroes he got drafted with ..idk what more u expect when ur team can't trust u. just a reminder that a team with burning never drafted an am for him throughout the tournament | ||
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