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| Forum Index > Dota 2 Player & Team Discussion |
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
Related: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eyrh2.jpg) Fy best support in China! | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BoJ8nucIAAABcaK.jpg:large) | ||
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aboxcar
United States447 Posts
On May 22 2014 10:10 tauon wrote: Fy! Beautifulest support in China! fyp | ||
opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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Adrian_mx
Mexico1880 Posts
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
 . He could have been a model in china easily, but he took the road to play dota 2  Edit : also this is their facebook website if anyone is interested : https://www.facebook.com/TeamViCiGaming | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
fy gonna destroy everyone in the 1vs1 if he gets voted, maybe even vs mushi! VG #1 | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
sylar too im not picky | ||
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
On May 22 2014 12:55 Caladbolg wrote: Fy beat cty in that 1v1 tourney right? I remember that because he was being owned by burning in cs but suddenly killed him in his first round matchup. What a player fy. Sure did. On May 22 2014 11:23 rebdomine wrote: Vote for fy in the 1v1 tournament 1000 times this!!! In the Chinese 1v1 tournament, VG's supports fy and fenrir came first and second! | ||
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andyrau
13015 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On May 22 2014 22:06 tauon wrote: 1000 times this!!! In the Chinese 1v1 tournament, VG's supports fy and fenrir came first and second! which one? i also voted for fy and i hope that they make it to the ESL One Finals. i would like to collect some signatures | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
The reason Fy is so good though is probably because he supposedly practiced a lot with Cty, Fy was also a top dota1 ladder player so that translates well into mechanical skill. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
In any case, this is about the team. For me VG, NB, and DK are pretty much dead even. Carries? Sylar v Hao v Burning. I don't know how you even choose between them, although I guess you could pick B-god for versatility and experience. Mids? Super v Mu v Mushi. I'd pick Mushi, but Super was, for quite some time, the most stable mid in China @ DK (before Ferrari went beastmode). Mu is Ferrari-lite for me. Offlane? Rotk v xiao8 v iceiceice. I won't even go here. Too much awesome from each of them. Support pairs? Fy-Fenrir v Banana-SanSheng/KingJ v Lanm-MMY. It's between VG and DK definitely. I'd go for DK simply because Lanm and Fy cancel each other out, and MMY is just as good. If Fenrir starts playing godly again, then it's up in the air again. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
On May 23 2014 04:14 Andre wrote: I'm interested in that tournament as well. Never recall Fenrir playing 1vs1. The reason Fy is so good though is probably because he supposedly practiced a lot with Cty, Fy was also a top dota1 ladder player so that translates well into mechanical skill. The CTY one was 2009's tourney, and CTY won over Maybe in what was seen as a finals between upstarts, since Ferrari, Hao, etc were also in the tourney and got eliminated by either one of them. Maybe went on to later play for LGD and then now LGD.CDEC. I think this was the TL thread about it: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/dota-2-general/1371-dota-1-solo-mid-competition-hosted-by-2009 FY beating CTY was in ECL here: http://www.joindota.com/en/news/10701-redbull-ecl-1v1-tournament-brackets Fenrir... I may have been mistaken about him. Maybe he was in the 2009 torunament? | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
On May 23 2014 12:18 Caladbolg wrote: The CTY one was 2009's tourney, and CTY won over Maybe in what was seen as a finals between upstarts, since Ferrari, Hao, etc were also in the tourney and got eliminated by either one of them. Maybe went on to later play for LGD and then now LGD.CDEC. I think this was the TL thread about it: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/dota-2-general/1371-dota-1-solo-mid-competition-hosted-by-2009 FY beating CTY was in ECL here: http://www.joindota.com/en/news/10701-redbull-ecl-1v1-tournament-brackets Fenrir... I may have been mistaken about him. Maybe he was in the 2009 torunament? I know about those two tournaments. But tauon mentioned that in one tournament supposedly Fy and Fenrir came in first and second. Also Fenrir wasn't in 2009 tournament, everybody was a big name except Maybe and CTY who I believe 2009 invited personally as new talents. | ||
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DaysOfBlue
United Kingdom7 Posts
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
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[O]ops
Italy44 Posts
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
i just dont feel like vg really has what it takes to take ti4 cant really describe what it is, but teams like alliance navi dk eg c9 have it | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On May 24 2014 09:16 teddyoojo wrote: c9 wins ti4 its already confirmed i just dont feel like vg really has what it takes to take ti4 cant really describe what it is, but teams like alliance navi dk eg c9 have it I believe the word you are looking for is "bias" =) | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
On May 23 2014 20:03 Andre wrote: I know about those two tournaments. But tauon mentioned that in one tournament supposedly Fy and Fenrir came in first and second. I can't remember the name of the tournament  but I'm pretty sure I watched a 1v1 final between fenrir and fy and the tournament included 430, super and some other top Chinese players.I really hope VG start picking Rubick + Leshrac for Fy and Fenrir. That combo was crazy to watch back when VG had their old line up. | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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Kirsed
9380 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
FY what a player, what a magician on his rubick. | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
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BlindKill
Australia1508 Posts
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
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zergtat
Hong Kong853 Posts
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
On June 07 2014 18:19 Ultimo Hombre wrote: poor Fenrir never gets any love due to the sheer awesome of Fy That's why we need to always talk in terms of F&F, Fenrir and Fy! | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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sunnata
Russian Federation228 Posts
Hope they'll learn from this tournament, third place isn't that bad, but I hope they'll aim (and perform) for top spot in ESL One. | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On June 09 2014 12:20 sunnata wrote: I think they should consider switching some player positions. In my opinion, fy's potential isn't being used completely. He already makes some game-changing plays on support heroes, but it really feels like mid is where he truly belongs to, and his impact on the game could be bigger. Also, from what I saw, Super's and rOtk's performance was pretty underwhelming at The Summit. Drafting should be rehashed too, very strange Enchantress first-round picks. Hope they'll learn from this tournament, third place isn't that bad, but I hope they'll aim (and perform) for top spot in ESL One. its not specifically a VG problem: chinas overvaluing enchantress right now. its still a very good hero, but not first round pickable | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
I do wish that Super would play more of an initiator and rOtK a little less of one. rOtK essentially plays 4 heroes-- bat, doom, nature's prophet, and clock, and when he's shut down or makes rOtK plays, the role of initiation rests solely on Fy. Super can get more reliable farm at mid, and we know he can play heroes like storm spirit quite well. | ||
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
On June 09 2014 13:28 bearbuddy wrote: I don't think VG should switch their player positions. The thing that Fy does exceptionally well is how much he can do with little farm. Give him a blink dagger and he can make things happen. I do wish that Super would play more of an initiator and rOtK a little less of one. rOtK essentially plays 4 heroes-- bat, doom, nature's prophet, and clock, and when he's shut down or makes rOtK plays, the role of initiation rests solely on Fy. Super can get more reliable farm at mid, and we know he can play heroes like storm spirit quite well. Don't forget bristles. bb feels like such an rOtk hero. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On June 12 2014 11:16 tauon wrote: Don't forget bristles. bb feels like such an rOtk hero. Yeah, but I've seen Sylar play that hero more often than rOtK | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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schmitty9800
United States390 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
sigh | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
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Snakesneaks
Italy2652 Posts
On June 09 2014 12:20 sunnata wrote: I think they should consider switching some player positions. In my opinion, fy's potential isn't being used completely. He already makes some game-changing plays on support heroes, but it really feels like mid is where he truly belongs to, and his impact on the game could be bigger. Also, from what I saw, Super's and rOtk's performance was pretty underwhelming at The Summit. Drafting should be rehashed too, very strange Enchantress first-round picks. Hope they'll learn from this tournament, third place isn't that bad, but I hope they'll aim (and perform) for top spot in ESL One. Consistently making plays and winning 1v1 tournaments do not make you a good solomid. That position requires more than those. But this post indeed pointed the right direction into VG main problem : no playmakers. Super is always passive laner, but he could make it up with his teamfight and midgame control. Kinda like S4 except Super sucks on them now. Meanwhile, ROTK is never a playmaker. They lead to heavy burden to fy and Sylar. fy is a great support, but since he makes all VG plays, no wonder people keep hyping him up to the extent of the overrating. And poor Sylar, he must opt for midgame carry and cannot maximise his heropool because of his team limitation. With no one holding midgame, he will rarely pick any farmer because the opponent will steamroll first. So, seriously Super, step up your game. | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
On July 04 2014 14:56 ForTehDarkseid wrote: Rejoice, VG fans, you got an easiest first day draft at TI! Do you have a link to the schedule? | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
mouz Na`Vi Empire Titan http://www.dota2.com/international/watch/July10/ LGD Na`Vi.US Fnatic Newbee http://www.dota2.com/international/watch/July11/ DK EG Alliance Wildcard Cloud 9 http://www.dota2.com/international/watch/July12/ Arrow iG tough start to day 3 http://dota2.sgamer.com/albums/201407/8246_330512.html also a few VG pics for you guys here | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
On July 05 2014 16:36 opterown wrote: http://www.dota2.com/international/watch/July9/ mouz Na`Vi Empire Titan http://www.dota2.com/international/watch/July10/ LGD Na`Vi.US Fnatic Newbee http://www.dota2.com/international/watch/July11/ DK EG Alliance Wildcard Cloud 9 http://www.dota2.com/international/watch/July12/ Arrow iG tough start to day 3 http://dota2.sgamer.com/albums/201407/8246_330512.html also a few VG pics for you guys here Thanks | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
![[image loading]](http://photos-d.ak.instagram.com/hphotos-ak-xpa1/10522864_693236137415603_847578267_n.jpg) | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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Pandahunterz
Netherlands213 Posts
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Tanukki
Finland579 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On July 10 2014 10:46 Tanukki wrote: Could someone that understands Chinese explain the " 天喔 " tag that VG players have on their in-game names? It's a sponsor http://dotaland.net/2013/08/16/vici-gaming-adds-a-title-sponsor/ | ||
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Tanukki
Finland579 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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Khylol
United States279 Posts
Sylar learned the game when he was younger by watching burning replays, so for him to play against burning on such a stage is a "very joyous thing". Sylar so cool. Respect. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On July 12 2014 15:29 tauon wrote: Wow. As long as VG beat Arrow tomorrow they are guaranteed a top seed going into the main event (guaranteed $600,000). Couldn't have asked for a better start. Don't jinx it man. Don't jinx it. | ||
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
VG defeats Arrow. Rares secured. | ||
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pedrlz
Brazil5234 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + fenrir interview with hot bid + Show Spoiler + rotk with cyborgmatt/ongamers + Show Spoiler + plus sylar in the post above not sure if there are any other interviews yet gogo vici :D since new page, here it is sylar with cyborgfrog + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a2_wmJk3vk | ||
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CherryNubCakes
United States972 Posts
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andyrau
13015 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
Newbee winning the bubble bracket has put VG into a dilemma. They can choose to play DK or NB, the former of which have been crushing them in official matches and is the primary practice partner for VG. NB supposedly have ~80% win rate against VG in scrims. Edit: well, I guess they chose NB. | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
opening match of key arena! | ||
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xalazias
Australia32 Posts
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andyrau
13015 Posts
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
Regardless of their performance, I'm already pretty happy about how they did this TI. Hopefully they can go out there and surprise everyone. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
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wuhan_clan
United States5609 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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Togekiss
Canada154 Posts
After watching some of VG's games, as well as FY in the solo mid competition back at the Summit - well, it was love at first sight. I knew this team had great potential, and now they are fulfilling it in front of the entire world! Make me a proud fan of the team with the best roaming support duo in the business!!! Vici Gaming Fighting! | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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babylon
8765 Posts
But the rOtk and Burning bromance will never die. Go win it tmrw, VG. <3 | ||
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CherryNubCakes
United States972 Posts
VG! Win it tomorrow. 殺回來！ | ||
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blazespirit
United States13 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
I hope vici doesn't change their approach just because they are playing newbee, or that they have loss to them before. If ti4 has shown anything, this is a recipe for disaster. Gogo vici! | ||
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andyrau
13015 Posts
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Namunelbo
501 Posts
On July 21 2014 08:29 Namunelbo wrote: If VG wins TI4, I hope Sylar finally gets a personal sponsorship from Kleenex, Vinda or any major paper/tissue manufacturer. This could seriously work out. With the huge prizepool and exposure TI4 is having in China (not to mention the imminent growth of the game) plus the amount of tissues Sylar uses, this can pretty much encourage non-gaming related chinese companies to invest on eSports yet again. Imagine Vinda personal sponsorship for Sylar, VG.Sylar.Vinda. Or Laoganma peaking interest for LGD, LGD.Yao.LGM. Or maybe get Master Kong or the likes investing. One can only dream... | ||
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blazespirit
United States13 Posts
On July 21 2014 14:04 Namunelbo wrote: This could seriously work out. With the huge prizepool and exposure TI4 is having in China (not to mention the imminent growth of the game) plus the amount of tissues Sylar uses, this can pretty much encourage non-gaming related chinese companies to invest on eSports yet again. Imagine Vinda personal sponsorship for Sylar, VG.Sylar.Vinda. Or Laoganma peaking interest for LGD, LGD.Yao.LGM. Or maybe get Master Kong or the likes investing. One can only dream... Personal sponsorship?? What company in their right mind would sponsor a single player.. OHWAIT + Show Spoiler + pegasus | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On July 21 2014 13:52 DucK- wrote: They stayed true to their style. That is what I respect them for. No cute stuff like fv offlane. Always the same style, always the same approach. It is not even like they are ahead of the meta. This is a team drafting to their strengths. They are also lucky though that hero of the tournament (razor) fits perfectly into their draft. I hope vici doesn't change their approach just because they are playing newbee, or that they have loss to them before. If ti4 has shown anything, this is a recipe for disaster. Gogo vici! its interesting that the top 3 mostly stayed true to their style. lgd did that too and it paid off for them | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
On July 21 2014 13:52 DucK- wrote: They stayed true to their style. That is what I respect them for. No cute stuff like fv offlane. Always the same style, always the same approach. It is not even like they are ahead of the meta. This is a team drafting to their strengths. They are also lucky though that hero of the tournament (razor) fits perfectly into their draft. I hope vici doesn't change their approach just because they are playing newbee, or that they have loss to them before. If ti4 has shown anything, this is a recipe for disaster. Gogo vici! fucking million times yes I like navi but as soon as the puppey who falls into the skywrath+void trap showed up I knew it was a lost cause. It's ironic because especially during group stages most of the Chinese teams who were too stubborn to change during TI3 were TOO eager to adopt skywrath void during this year. After day 1 it was pretty obvious that being more stubborn would've helped tremendously, as rabid said. Edit: Somewhat related, If DK keeps a dota team, having the SEA players presumably going back to their region will help for everyone involved. Teams nowadays need their own style/voice and deterring from this is a recipe for losses. | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On July 21 2014 14:43 opterown wrote: i don't think VG stayed very much to their actual style pre-TI at all tbh. they never really ran that many facerush lineups with 15 minute rax pushes like they did before. those lineups werent facerush but fast push, and most of the team is very very familiar with the fast high ground break meta that pervaded chinese dota in 2011. this is not meta pandering, but something they came up with themselves. it almost reminded me of 2011-2012 european aggression. the games only ended up being 15 minutes because teams were drafting and playing so greedily and VG was punishing them hard for it | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
so happy that vg made it into the finals | ||
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On July 21 2014 14:43 opterown wrote: i don't think VG stayed very much to their actual style pre-TI at all tbh. they never really ran that many facerush lineups with 15 minute rax pushes like they did before. The main thing is that they did what they liked best, which is to play aggressively and to push. Pre TI4, Vici used to run similar lineups such as DK + Pugna or some variant. They may not be playing exactly the same approach as before, but the core concept is pretty much the same. | ||
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Adrian_mx
Mexico1880 Posts
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TrainSamurai
339 Posts
On July 21 2014 17:28 Adrian_mx wrote: I gained so much respect for RoTk after the post interview. He shows so much compassion for BurNIng. VG will take it. +1 I wouldn't have blamed him if he just stood back and watched DK burn during the boycott. Not only did he forgive them he went and scrimmed with them. RotK is manly! | ||
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Bam Lee
2336 Posts
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Now he's about to win 5m. I'm loving it. | ||
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Nomzter
Sweden2802 Posts
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
gotta keep the team cam stream on for when they win | ||
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
Onward to the post-TI shuffle! | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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YodAtomie
Germany5 Posts
I hope for better picks in ti5 final for vicigaming  <3. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On July 22 2014 06:35 YodAtomie wrote: These picks in the last game were really bad, no damageoutput and not a "tank", just really weak lineup. I hope for better picks in ti5 final for vicigaming <3.Don't worry man. We just wanted the silver to match with our color scheme. Also #savingstrats for TI5 | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
They forgot that tide and doom are heroes they used to favour. They gave too much priority to obtaining prophet. Everything about their draft approach today was not the usual Vici. I don't even think vici push strat comes from mass summons or wards like they used today. It comes from pugna/razor/ld/dp, with dk/prophet/rhasta/veno picked to complement it. They lacked the core heroes for their pushes today, and getting veno/prophet so early meant they cannot execute their backup weaver/morphing strategies well because they just don't have team fight. | ||
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andyrau
13015 Posts
oh well | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On July 22 2014 10:38 andyrau wrote: so sad they kept picking pos 1 prophet against these fast push lineups oh well they were the ones doing the fast push, not newbee | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On July 22 2014 14:50 opterown wrote: they were the ones doing the fast push, not newbee I don't think it's a bad thing, but I'd argue that Newbee's lineups had above average push as well. | ||
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andyrau
13015 Posts
On July 22 2014 14:50 opterown wrote: they were the ones doing the fast push, not newbee yea i meant 5man snowball lineups both teams overvalued veno and prophet though | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On July 23 2014 23:32 cbk486 wrote: All these posters in /r/dota2 saying that Vici didn't deserve second place make me sad People who say things like that, whether they're fans of dota, hockey, football, or another game, are just bitter. VG deserved second place; you can tell because they got second place. | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
On July 24 2014 00:38 Elyvilon wrote: People who say things like that, whether they're fans of dota, hockey, football, or another game, are just bitter. VG deserved second place; you can tell because they got second place. It's just depressing b/c vici executed very well all tournament but then they say the team is total shit because of the finals - and that's all anyone will remember them for. | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
Could someone kindly translate this video? It was just posted on reddit. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On July 24 2014 11:07 cbk486 wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqf-RZ01Z70&feature=share Could someone kindly translate this video? It was just posted on reddit. At around 0:30 rOtk: we can reflect on this. Super: let's not do this right now. --- 0:34 Super: Our preparations... our preparations and the game-- We should have changed our tactics. --- 0:47 rOtk: In this scenario, we had morphling viper. That counts as dual core. We should have broken through with dual core. --- 0:54 rOtK: we have relied on this "thing" to play, and we lost because of this thing. (It was vague what rOtk was talking about). Super: We lost like this... this is so.. (sigh). The feeling of helplessness is too strong. I feel so helpless as I played. --- 1:22 Fy: we'll play again next year. That's a pretty rough translation. Thanks to my friends kdgns for clarifying what heroes rOtk was talking about at 0:47. | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
On July 24 2014 12:50 bearbuddy wrote: At around 0:30 rOtk: we can reflect on this. Super: let's not do this right now. --- 0:34 Super: Our preparations... our preparations and the game-- We should have changed our tactics. --- 0:47 rOtk: In this scenario, we had morphling viper. That counts as dual core. We should have broken through with dual core. --- 0:54 rOtK: we have relied on this "thing" to play, and we lost because of this thing. (It was vague what rOtk was talking about). Super: We lost like this... this is so.. (sigh). The feeling of helplessness is too strong. I feel so helpless as I played. --- 1:22 Fy: we'll play again next year. That's a pretty rough translation. Thanks to my friends kdgns for clarifying what heroes rOtk was talking about at 0:47. Thank you! They seem so defeated | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
Vici peaked at the right time. Now they know their potential - they shouldn't be afraid to try and go beyond that. They're a young team, relatively, they have a lot more to give. | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
VG's greatest strength is that their execution is top notch and decision-making is self-professed 60-40. They are willing to take risks and but are pushing the limits of play. That is pure awesome. If they can expand on their range of strategies then they would will be hard to beat and exciting to watch. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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B1nary
Canada1267 Posts
In the group stages and most of the playoffs, it was "We will kill you under your tower and then kill your tower. If that fails, we will fall back on farmed Morphling and try to win late." During the finals, it was "KLIL THE TOEWERS!!!" | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On July 26 2014 05:27 B1nary wrote: They played amazingly until the finals. In the group stages and most of the playoffs, it was "We will kill you under your tower and then kill your tower. If that fails, we will fall back on farmed Morphling and try to win late." During the finals, it was "KLIL THE TOEWERS!!!" yeah i always had faith in sylar's morph. it was incredibly strong and whenever he played morph their late game is solid. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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Acti
Portugal61 Posts
On July 26 2014 04:43 DucK- wrote: Or if they decided to stop being stubborn and stick with their usual strategy in the finals.... I still don't understand that decision from them... | ||
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Bam Lee
2336 Posts
On July 26 2014 10:48 DucK- wrote: I'm glad some people actually realised that vici wasn't playing their usual style. The first picks made them very all in from the start. They had little flexibility with no team fight heroes like doom or tide to play their backup late game morph strategies. All they basically had were summons and wards for pushing. It was a drafting disaster. Everybody who saw the loser bracket and VG games knew that they were kinda off in the finals. Everybody who claims something else is just bitter that VG threw out their favorite. They didnt resort to their doom/tide picks for no apparent reason. They shouldnt have picked Veno more than once in that series >_> If DK falls apart i guess i might have to follow VG closer. They are pretty much my 2nd favorite team right now :D they played awesome | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On July 27 2014 01:02 Bam Lee wrote: Everybody who saw the loser bracket and VG games knew that they were kinda off in the finals. Everybody who claims something else is just bitter that VG threw out their favorite. They didnt resort to their doom/tide picks for no apparent reason. They shouldnt have picked Veno more than once in that series >_> If DK falls apart i guess i might have to follow VG closer. They are pretty much my 2nd favorite team right now :D they played awesome Its more directed to those who claim that vici loss using the same aggressive push strategies they have been doing throughout the tournament. @tangeng Its different because vici had razor in those matches. Razor is a hero that allows you to win 1 lane and get quick mek, and generally solid to centre your pushes around. Vici pretty much abandoned any backup plans of playing around a fat morph or something when they picked both prophet and veno. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
Also rOtK Ice bucket challenge: He challenges Burning, Super!, and iceiceice =) | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
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Spriki
216 Posts
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
On August 27 2014 03:21 Spriki wrote: Isn't Black quite fluent already? Well I thought he was since he stayed with CIS for so long He probably doesn't have problems communicating in game. His Chinese skills out of game however, needs improvement. HIs accent is coming along nicely though. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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cbk486
154 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On August 27 2014 04:40 cbk486 wrote: How good are super and black ? I only started playing and following dota during TI3, and so I've only managed to catch a few games of theirs. Super doesn't get that much recognition, but he's easily one of the best mids in China. The opinions you'll get on Black will range somewhere between 'fucking terrible' and 'the next Burning'. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On August 27 2014 04:40 cbk486 wrote: How good are super and black ? I only started playing and following dota during TI3, and so I've only managed to catch a few games of theirs. Black is very good. He basically took a Chinese B-team and solo dragged them to a second place in the Chinese TI4 qualifiers, even managing to take a few games off of LGD (which nobody else managed). They did horribly in the main event because visa issues prevented the team from practicing for around a month leading up to the event. But don't ask me. Ask Vici, who (as much as I hated their TI4 playstyle) has some of the most talented players on the scene. They seem to think he's the best carry available. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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kangaroodan
United Kingdom37 Posts
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Reson
530 Posts
On August 27 2014 04:40 cbk486 wrote: How good are super and black ? I only started playing and following dota during TI3, and so I've only managed to catch a few games of theirs. I never thought very highly of Black^ during his Mouz days but he must be developing into something if Tier 1 Chinese teams are taking him. If the Chinese pros are taking him in as one of their own then he definitely has shown them something a lot of the western world hasn't seen yet. He is a feel good and inspirational story for sure though; leaving everything behind and going to a foreign place without speaking the language in a team environment is not something easy to do. Go VG! Hopefully IceIceIce can win it for this year's DK at TI5 | ||
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suxN
Finland1167 Posts
I don't think black will take over the C because he is foreigner and as i watched the VG documentary it seemed like fy/super/fenrir arent very vocal players, but then again who could go vocal with rOtk. My guess is iceiceice will be their captain. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On August 27 2014 07:47 suxN wrote: I wonder who will be their new captain. Super has been on VG for longest, iceiceice has said he wants to be a captain and supports have the natural spot for captaincy. I don't think black will take over the C because he is foreigner and as i watched the VG documentary it seemed like fy/super/fenrir arent very vocal players, but then again who could go vocal with rOtk. My guess is iceiceice will be their captain. Fenrir and Fy were on the inaugural VG team, and Fenrir was the captain from the beginning till rOtK joined. He's also the oldest (1989) of the group. So I wouldn't be surprised if Fenrir returns to being the captain. | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
On August 27 2014 08:13 bearbuddy wrote: Fenrir and Fy were on the inaugural VG team, and Fenrir was the captain from the beginning till rOtK joined. He's also the oldest (1989) of the group. So I wouldn't be surprised if Fenrir returns to being the captain. The Vici Gaming facebook post said that Super would be the captain. https://www.facebook.com/TeamViCiGaming/photos/a.669185319800591.1073741832.667387283313728/800042410048214/?type=1 | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On August 27 2014 09:49 cbk486 wrote: The Vici Gaming facebook post said that Super would be the captain. the VG gaming facebook might have some internal connections but it's still not official, it's run by the staka guy who has quite the shady history. he runs the twitter and newbee's social media too. | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
On August 27 2014 07:38 Reson wrote: I never thought very highly of Black^ during his Mouz days but he must be developing into something if Tier 1 Chinese teams are taking him. If the Chinese pros are taking him in as one of their own then he definitely has shown them something a lot of the western world hasn't seen yet. He is a feel good and inspirational story for sure though; leaving everything behind and going to a foreign place without speaking the language in a team environment is not something easy to do. Go VG! Hopefully IceIceIce can win it for this year's DK at TI5 Black's reputation amongst the Chinese is impeccable. Almost universally hailed as little B-god if dota forums and douyuTV chats are anything to go by (and not ironically either). It seems the Chinese fans really want a non-ethnic Chinese to do well in China. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
I'm sure they're very excited about this. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
On August 27 2014 15:27 DucK- wrote: So what happens when invoker is drafted now? Probably depends on the draft like iG, when Luo and ferrari play invoker alternately. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On August 27 2014 15:33 fixed_point wrote: Probably depends on the draft like iG, when Luo and ferrari play invoker alternately. It is not that simple though. If luo played invoker, it would be a safe lane one. If 430 played, it would be mid. Roles are still the same. If iceiceice plays, someone else has to take the offlane. It was a problem for dk because mushi wasn't that good at offlane. How would vici adjust to this. | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
On August 27 2014 21:16 DucK- wrote: It is not that simple though. If luo played invoker, it would be a safe lane one. If 430 played, it would be mid. Roles are still the same. If iceiceice plays, someone else has to take the offlane. It was a problem for dk because mushi wasn't that good at offlane. How would vici adjust to this. I have seen black play offlane slark a few times iirc. | ||
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Adrian_mx
Mexico1880 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
Vici CEO discusses about VG shuffling. Starts at 1:14 Rough translation: + Show Spoiler + We got CIS because we know for a while now that rOtK was going to retire. To replace the 3rd position, our players want either iceiceice or June. Due to financial problems with CIS, I talked to the investors and decided to pick up the entire CIS squad. However, our players are not that close to each other. Sylar is close to rOtK, but rOtK retired. We were approached by LGD about Sylar, and we decided to send Sylar off to LGD. Originally, we were going to have June rotate to the 1 position, but iceiceice felt that Black^ is more suited as a 1 position player and that he has more experience. After some consideration we finalized the transfer fee for iceiceice yesterday, who cost as much as rabbit. Iceiceice, who is from Singapore, and who is fluent in both English and Chinese, can serve as a translator for the team. In the last couple of days, we had super and fy talk with Black^ on QQ, and Black's pinyin (the romanized chinese writing) is exceptionally good. He has been learning Chinese over the net. Overall, we will be keeping Ayo and Demon. We also signed Orenda's YJ. We will be signing more players to form a second team. As for the name of the new team. We don't know it yet, but it won't be CIS. | ||
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Kirsed
9380 Posts
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broodbucket
Australia963 Posts
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Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
On August 28 2014 23:54 bearbuddy wrote: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzYyNzE1MDQw.html Vici CEO discusses about VG shuffling. Starts at 1:14 Rough translation: + Show Spoiler + We got CIS because we know for a while now that rOtK was going to retire. To replace the 3rd position, our players want either iceiceice or June. Due to financial problems with CIS, I talked to the investors and decided to pick up the entire CIS squad. However, our players are not that close to each other. Sylar is close to rOtK, but rOtK retired. We were approached by LGD about Sylar, and we decided to send Sylar off to LGD. Originally, we were going to have June rotate to the 1 position, but iceiceice felt that Black^ is more suited as a 1 position player and that he has more experience. After some consideration we finalized the transfer fee for iceiceice yesterday, who cost as much as rabbit. Iceiceice, who is from Singapore, and who is fluent in both English and Chinese, can serve as a translator for the team. In the last couple of days, we had super and fy talk with Black^ on QQ, and Black's pinyin (the romanized chinese writing) is exceptionally good. He has been learning Chinese over the net. Overall, we will be keeping Ayo and Demon. We also signed Orenda's YJ. We will be signing more players to form a second team. As for the name of the new team. We don't know it yet, but it won't be CIS. iceiceice was supposed to have a higher transfer fee than rabbit lmao | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
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Dil3mma
China33 Posts
Does someone know, when their first match kicks off? My favorite players (DK Squad) are gone and now I'm a 1) Vici Gaming 2) LGD Fan.. Really excited to see their first machtes! ice3, X! and Mushi, keep on fighting! | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Retvets
1781 Posts
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
On August 28 2014 04:46 cbk486 wrote: I have seen black play offlane slark a few times iirc. Black has also played heroes like axe and puck, but I dunno if he has ever done it offlane. | ||
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andyrau
13015 Posts
On September 10 2014 16:27 Retvets wrote: Should have picked up injuly instead of black! seriously that would've been my dreamteam | ||
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Nagamundo
131 Posts
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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drusalnik
Bulgaria133 Posts
They play so aggressive its just awsome to watch them. I had my doubt's cuz of Black and the communication issue but so far they have been on the rise and steady are improving rooting for them at ESL one NY. | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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DV G
Argentina2339 Posts
I really like the team and im hoping for a big show in I-League lan. | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
On September 20 2014 09:08 Doraemon wrote: let's just hope the adapt to patch better than dk did Dahhhhhhhhhh | ||
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cheese sandwich
Russian Federation194 Posts
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cheese sandwich
Russian Federation194 Posts
On September 20 2014 08:32 DV G wrote: I think if they improve, and fix small issues like the communication and things like that, they can easily repeat at least Top3 in TI5, But thats a long way. I really like the team and im hoping for a big show in I-League lan. I-League doesnt have many good teams.. examples being Power Rangers and Virtus Pro (I think its VP). Oh and the top tier team Rave from korea featuring jeyo and ninjaboogie. Those two will really test Vici. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
His invoker is ok but not great yet, and his play on aggressive carries (like riki today) are usually too passive, I think he plays with the fear of making mistakes (to be above criticism). But it works well and he looks more confortable with every game, I hope they can do great things, gogo VG | ||
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Entropic
Canada2837 Posts
From what I've observed, VG has been trying to pick up centaur (usually played by Black^) and Skywrath (played by Fy) whenever possible, especially when they are 2nd to pick. I've also noticed that they are not afraid to let DP go through the bans. Another VG drafting trend is picking Io, and if Tiny is let through, Tiny as well. So common VG picks: Centaur+Skywrath, Visage+Drow, Io+Tiny. | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On September 23 2014 15:54 Doraemon wrote: i wonder how sustainable VGs play is, their average winning time would be something incredible low. and it has been for TI4 as well and that has gotten them 2nd place. If that's not sustainable I don't know what is. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
They just need super to be a good captain. A captain's play cannot and should not be stellar and flashy because part of his energy is used up in directing the team. Having a mid as a captain makes a lot of sense, but it also means he has to play heros that are "lackluster" or "boring" such as viper/razor/dp, so he can free himself from micro and manage the team. I really hope super developes into a dominating captain like RotK, VG will be in good hands. VG has been a very team oriented and coordinated team. I hope they don't change their style. Ice3 seems to be adapting very well too. | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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gulati
United States2241 Posts
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Nagamundo
131 Posts
On September 24 2014 02:06 evanthebouncy! wrote: On the side note ice3's offlane is about 10x better than RotK technically speaking. They just need super to be a good captain. A captain's play cannot and should not be stellar and flashy because part of his energy is used up in directing the team. Having a mid as a captain makes a lot of sense, but it also means he has to play heros that are "lackluster" or "boring" such as viper/razor/dp, so he can free himself from micro and manage the team. I really hope super developes into a dominating captain like RotK, VG will be in good hands. VG has been a very team oriented and coordinated team. I hope they don't change their style. Ice3 seems to be adapting very well too. Uh what? Isnt Fy the captain | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
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Dil3mma
China33 Posts
And I am impressed by Super's mechanical knowledge, this guy is just so good. | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
still looking good though! hope they can keep it up, especially against the west. | ||
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
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vkleon
United States5 Posts
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wuhan_clan
United States5609 Posts
And a special congrats to Black. I don't know of any single active Dota 2 player that's had a tougher road to get to this point. His struggle was beyond what most professional gamers will ever experience and he really deserved this win. | ||
Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
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Entropic
Canada2837 Posts
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
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Furikawari
France2522 Posts
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ShootAnonymous
1948 Posts
Their current style of 4-distract-1 is working really well for them by making good use of the players' different strengths. Looking forward to more strong performances from this team! | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
Seems to me that their team is really in sync with each other, just need to fine tune some little knicks and then they acn really come out on top. Let's hope we can see these really good plays again. Really how they look so good with each other. | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
On October 11 2014 21:28 ShootAnonymous wrote: Their current style of 4-distract-1 is working really well for them by making good use of the players' different strengths. Looking forward to more strong performances from this team! 4-distract-1? more like 1 distract 4 lol. it's all ice | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On October 12 2014 18:39 Doraemon wrote: epic games boys, i wish i could see more timbersaw 4-distract-1? more like 1 distract 4 lol. it's all ice That's so true. Ice is sooooooo good at this. Except when he is on fv. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
By itself, 木 means wood. Place two of these characters side by side: 林 means woods. and three together: 森 means jungle/forest! For other SKs, they have to stay in the trees, but FY embodies the treesssssss themselves! I may or may not be currently under the influence. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On October 26 2014 20:23 fixed_point wrote: Guys I just realised why FY is so good at SK: His name is 徐林森. If you haven't noticed, there is a whole lot of this character in his first name(s): 木. By itself, 木 means wood. Place two of these characters side by side: 林 means woods. and three together: 森 means jungle/forest! For other SKs, they have to stay in the trees, but FY embodies the treesssssss themselves! I may or may not be currently under the influence. Probably less under the influence than his parents that named him. | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
On October 26 2014 22:26 Kupon3ss wrote: He also has the same family name as BurNIng So Burning Woods? Fy is a fucking forest fire. Watch out Dota 2. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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Nomzter
Sweden2802 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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eieio
United States14512 Posts
On December 05 2014 05:25 TanGeng wrote: Lost to the Secret... didn't look so good they looked surprisingly bad vs Secret tbh | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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RiZu
Singapore5715 Posts
ViCi hasn't really be playing well in group stage even back in China but they definitely and always step it up in the play-off. They aren't playing very well but I doubt they lose to TT. On December 05 2014 12:37 Doraemon wrote: worst draft i've seen for a long time I can't tell if fy is just testing out draft or not but I guess it doesn't mattered if they reach the semi-final straight or not since they are most likely going to face either TT or NoT. Regardless, finger crossed that they beat Team Tinker and Secret and win this event. I hope it isn't going to be like last year where they exploded in the first tournament they attended and pretty much get beaten every other international tournament in the Ro8/ Ro4. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On December 05 2014 05:25 TanGeng wrote: Lost to the Secret... didn't look so good idk i'm not gonna count them out just yet .. i feel like they are gonna win this tourney | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On December 05 2014 13:31 RiZu wrote: Jeez Super was playing quite badly but man the Chinese forums seen to enjoy flaming Black whenever they get the chance to. ViCi hasn't really be playing well in group stage even back in China but they definitely and always step it up in the play-off. They aren't playing very well but I doubt they lose to TT. I can't tell if fy is just testing out draft or not but I guess it doesn't mattered if they reach the semi-final straight or not since they are most likely going to face either TT or NoT. Regardless, finger crossed that they beat Team Tinker and Secret and win this event. I hope it isn't going to be like last year where they exploded in the first tournament they attended and pretty much get beaten every other international tournament in the Ro8/ Ro4. Did black play badly? It appears to me that the one agreeing up was always super. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
We'll see what happens. I hope they take it! | ||
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ncsix
1370 Posts
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ncsix
1370 Posts
I don't know, you have to give Secret some credit for making plays, they're no push over team. | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
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vkleon
United States5 Posts
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cbk486
154 Posts
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xalazias
Australia32 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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ncsix
1370 Posts
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Retvets
1781 Posts
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cbk486
154 Posts
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On December 08 2014 14:13 rebdomine wrote: I'll have to watch replays of the games but how convincing did they look vs C9? I read game 3 was pretty clowny. Game 3 was a massive throw but in general VG just looked the better team. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
Ｍ Ａ Ｘ Ｉ Ｍ Ｕ Ｍ Ｄ Ｉ Ｓ Ｒ Ｅ Ｓ Ｐ Ｅ Ｃ Ｔ and throwing because too much throw | ||
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malcram
2752 Posts
On December 08 2014 14:36 Kupon3ss wrote: game 3 was the team attempting Ｍ Ａ Ｘ Ｉ Ｍ Ｕ Ｍ Ｄ Ｉ Ｓ Ｒ Ｅ Ｓ Ｐ Ｅ Ｃ Ｔ and throwing because too much throw pretty much this. black was so cocky lol | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
<video controls loop height="360" width="640"> <source src="http://www.liquiddota.com/staff/Kupon3ss/Random/eecqco.webm" type="video/webm"> | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
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8dada8
Canada9 Posts
Semifinal against Secret should have been a slap in face for them, but the game was not covered by Chinese casts. | ||
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ShootAnonymous
1948 Posts
On December 08 2014 15:51 spudde123 wrote: Very impressive performance in the playoffs by VG. Coming into the event I wasn't so sure whether they were quite as good as EG/Secret (outside of ESL they haven't exactly dominated, although of course their results are good), but they had some really strong performances against Secret and c9 in the playoffs. Also as a single detail the way they utilized Brood and played around him was really impressive. Yes; VG seems to have a better understanding of the hero than the other teams did. iirc Secret picked against them, but VG dealt with mother quite handily. other random thoughts: Out of all the teams only VG (and maybe Not Today?) did not run Io-Carry at all during the Summit. Not complaining since VG's Io-Carry honestly wasn't stellar, but I wonder if the team's given up on it entirely O.o Anyhow, ggwp grats VG~ And now iceiceice can play hearthstone again lol. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
1. Chinese tournaments are going to start and the Chinese will develop their own meta initially inspired from western scene. The meta will be flawed compared to the west, but those flaws will be ignored because Chinese players are generally more skilled and will make their meta appear better than what it is. 2. Vici drafter will be under pressure from coaches and peers to conform to the Chinese meta instead of drafting what has been working for them. Their performances will deteoriate and the slump begins. 3. They finally decide to ignore the meta and start drafting to their strengths. There will be a resurgence. 4. In ti5 they will again go conservative and follow the meta. They will do badly, wake up and revert their drafts back again, and finish 4th after EG, Secret, and a new Chinese dream team. TL;DR, Vici 2014/15 will do a DK 2013/14. | ||
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Nomzter
Sweden2802 Posts
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ref4
2933 Posts
On December 08 2014 20:36 Nomzter wrote: dont even joke about that please :'( the curse of ic3 | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On December 08 2014 19:06 DucK- wrote: I think vici is the best team in the world now. But here is what's going to happen till ti5. 1. Chinese tournaments are going to start and the Chinese will develop their own meta initially inspired from western scene. The meta will be flawed compared to the west, but those flaws will be ignored because Chinese players are generally more skilled and will make their meta appear better than what it is. 2. Vici drafter will be under pressure from coaches and peers to conform to the Chinese meta instead of drafting what has been working for them. Their performances will deteoriate and the slump begins. 3. They finally decide to ignore the meta and start drafting to their strengths. There will be a resurgence. 4. In ti5 they will again go conservative and follow the meta. They will do badly, wake up and revert their drafts back again, and finish 4th after EG, Secret, and a new Chinese dream team. TL;DR, Vici 2014/15 will do a DK 2013/14. you forgot about 5. VG will win so hard and because they don't play the standard Chinese meta teams will not want to scrim them | ||
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Shergal
Argentina1191 Posts
By the end of TS2 their drafts did get more influenced by what Western teams were doing, that's true. We'll have to see when they start playing again on China. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
While all decent western team will destroy everything that is not VG and newbee. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On December 08 2014 19:06 DucK- wrote: I think vici is the best team in the world now. But here is what's going to happen till ti5. 1. Chinese tournaments are going to start and the Chinese will develop their own meta initially inspired from western scene. The meta will be flawed compared to the west, but those flaws will be ignored because Chinese players are generally more skilled and will make their meta appear better than what it is. 2. Vici drafter will be under pressure from coaches and peers to conform to the Chinese meta instead of drafting what has been working for them. Their performances will deteoriate and the slump begins. 3. They finally decide to ignore the meta and start drafting to their strengths. There will be a resurgence. 4. In ti5 they will again go conservative and follow the meta. They will do badly, wake up and revert their drafts back again, and finish 4th after EG, Secret, and a new Chinese dream team. TL;DR, Vici 2014/15 will do a DK 2013/14. We don't know if the chinese meta is "inferior" a common pitfall is to look at something you don't understand, and label it as inferior because you cannot comprehend it. until we see a good few matches with chinese team vs western teams, we cannot say which meta is better. | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
i think we cant really say too much about the chinese meta right now. they just dont play many tournaments these days.. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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vndestiny
Singapore3440 Posts
On December 10 2014 13:36 DucK- wrote: Does anyone know which heroes black plays badly? ? LD. Though I'm not really sure when was the last time he playe it though. Black is good and extremely skilled, top 2 in the world atm imo but he's not as solid as I would like. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On December 08 2014 19:06 DucK- wrote: I think vici is the best team in the world now. But here is what's going to happen till ti5. 1. Chinese tournaments are going to start and the Chinese will develop their own meta initially inspired from western scene. The meta will be flawed compared to the west, but those flaws will be ignored because Chinese players are generally more skilled and will make their meta appear better than what it is. 2. Vici drafter will be under pressure from coaches and peers to conform to the Chinese meta instead of drafting what has been working for them. Their performances will deteoriate and the slump begins. 3. They finally decide to ignore the meta and start drafting to their strengths. There will be a resurgence. 4. In ti5 they will again go conservative and follow the meta. They will do badly, wake up and revert their drafts back again, and finish 4th after EG, Secret, and a new Chinese dream team. TL;DR, Vici 2014/15 will do a DK 2013/14. well i may as well go to sleep for the next year and wake up after ti5 | ||
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Moustache Cash Stash
United States222 Posts
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mutantmagnet
United States3789 Posts
On December 11 2014 00:14 Moustache Cash Stash wrote: So is brood mother a must ban against Vici in every game? Is iceiceice just really good with the hero or is she actually viable now, because I haven't really seen any other team play her (I think Universe played her once in the Summit 2). Brood has always been viable as a late pick. The difference between Iceiceice and everyone else is that he believes even when the enemy has more than 1 wave clearer he can still micro his spiderlings to avoid the damage. Considering how he 1v2 and still got kills in the offlane with DK it's safe to say there is also a player imbalance that can't be ignored. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
it's buyback tpboot. draft necrolyte vs Vici to ensure high winrate lol! | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On December 15 2014 03:25 cbk486 wrote: What the hell was that shit in Starladder... word on the street is that some teams dont wanna go to the finals | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
On December 15 2014 07:55 TRAP[yoo] wrote: word on the street is that some teams dont wanna go to the finals This may or may not have happened last SL | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
On December 15 2014 23:53 Kupon3ss wrote: This may or may not have happened last SL if VG didn't want to go to SL XI they could've started throwing during the grp stage and save themselves the trouble? | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
On December 15 2014 03:25 cbk486 wrote: What the hell was that shit in Starladder... apparently super was really sick and black was nursing an injured hand. not confirmed. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
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cbk486
154 Posts
On December 16 2014 11:05 Doraemon wrote: apparently super was really sick and black was nursing an injured hand. not confirmed. Link? | ||
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
Black: http://t.qq.com/p/t/465723096346381 "My hand hurts a lot AAAAAAAAA bang wooooooooooo" Super: http://t.qq.com/p/t/461930084805376 "I've been sick for a day. Vomiting and shaking all over. Sorry everyone" | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
On December 17 2014 18:14 Doraemon wrote: damn. black's chinese is REALLY good Haha he tried the si shi si tongue twister yesterday and failed miserably. | ||
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eieio
United States14512 Posts
On December 16 2014 17:47 TanGeng wrote: ok you guys need to watch black stream http://www.huomaotv.com/live/423 Is there a way to watch vods on huomao? I clicked around for a while but I don't know any chinese so I really don't know what I'm looking for. | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
On December 17 2014 21:10 fixed_point wrote: Haha he tried the si shi si tongue twister yesterday and failed miserably. it's difficult even for me and i am a native! regardless, he doesn't only understand dota slangs but he can hold conversations. | ||
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
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trifecta
United States6795 Posts
On December 19 2014 02:47 uriel- wrote: rOtk standing in for Super at their KDL matches apparently? https://twitter.com/ViCi_Gaming/status/545621641934700544 rotk the fbh of china | ||
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Ryukku
Singapore545 Posts
You dont just retire from dota! | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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Retvets
1781 Posts
On December 19 2014 19:43 goody153 wrote: Burning, Rotk and Xiao8 should just make a team and make the Eastern "Team Secret". There's old man team and old boy team. | ||
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Nomzter
Sweden2802 Posts
and happy birthday to Super! | ||
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
Game 1 Draft: Brood, panda banned by MVP. Bat, Wisp banned by VG. MVP first picks skywrath. "I think VS?" "Take ember first, ember will be very good" VG Picks Ember and VS "We need to ban void and if we don't take tide they will definitely take it." "This team is not very good at laning. Their strength lies in mid-game teamfights" MVP picks slark. "Slark? Then should we try for void or tide?" "How about we go with phoenix and axe?" "Hey, tide is still available (for us and them)" "Cmon' TB vs is insane vs slark" In the meantime, AM + Naga ban from MVP; TA + Viper ban for VG VG still deliberating extensively about the possibility of void or tide "Phoenix is still a possibility." "If I pick pheonix they can get troll" "I think potm will be good" VG picks potm "Potm is better mid, but I think we have to gank with her this game" MVP picks DP "We need to deal with her early" "What about axe and np? Call into arrow. NP can snipe if needed" "Can you go jugg?" "I think...yes. With some support" VG picks jugg; MVP picks omni. The last bans were axe from MVP and ench from VG. "We need some pushing power, or bring it late" "We can go doom?" "Black exort invoker is still ok" "I will have healing ward, let's go for push" VG picks Invoker;MVP picks Earthshaker "Hmm DP carry for sure" "The ES to prevent the arrows?" "Do you want to buy wards? Or boots first?" "Lets run quickly to our jungle. They really like to put a protective ward for the hardlane." | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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eieio
United States14512 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
super PA ice3 Phoenix discuss. | ||
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
On January 06 2015 12:43 Elyvilon wrote: This is really cool. I realize I'm getting greedy here, but can you tell who was saying what? Hard to tell with the casters being so loud. Mostly the comments not related to the disucssion (i.e. the suggestions about potm, jugg, invoker) is FY, and comments about MVP playstyle also. He also made the comment about troll vs phoenix. Black didn't really say anything. Mostly just said yes to several suggestions. Sometimes he interjects with a sentence or two but it's hard to make out what's he's saying over everyone else. iceiceice's comments: ember, worries about void/tide, suggestion about TB + VS. From what I've seen, he is the one that drives the discussion during the draft (most talkative as well). I actually couldn't tell the difference between super and fenrir's voice, which is weird because they usually have quite distinctive voices...I think most of the remaining lines were super though. I also caught a few new lines: VG were asking themselves if they're fine with giving warlock to MVP (in the second stage of banning). FY expresses his dislike on dealing with viper (right before viper ban) | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2tf7ml/sgamer_rumor_of_the_day_dac_will_be_blacks_last/ | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On January 24 2015 05:45 Daralii wrote: Chinese netizens saying that DAC will be Black's last tournament with the team. http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2tf7ml/sgamer_rumor_of_the_day_dac_will_be_blacks_last/ interesting | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
Why? (performance in Chinese tournaments?)I wonder who they'll get to replace him? | ||
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borobudur
16 Posts
On January 24 2015 06:39 cbk486 wrote: That's sad Why? (performance in Chinese tournaments?)I wonder who they'll get to replace him? I wouldn't put much of VG's recent failures on Black. fy just seem to be playing reckless. I remember reading that the chinese fans want Zyf from EHOME. I'm sure there are a lot more local talent they could choose. Hopefully Black will land on his feet - and on a good team. | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
He might not end up on a dominant team as VG, but he will at least be considered a tier 1 player to hang with the big boys. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
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Churrass
573 Posts
On January 24 2015 08:47 LemOn wrote: Omg this is great - Teamliquid Team - Black, Demon, Moonmeader +2, make it happen Naz! disband in 2 weeks | ||
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8dada8
Canada9 Posts
Any replacement, if not Rabbit as a rumor I heard, is a failure. | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
I always liked Rabbit, and if Black is really leaving, he'd be my top pick to be VG's new carry. (Unless of course Burning decides to unretire for good and join VG?) | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
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Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
On January 24 2015 11:58 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: one of the rumors is that FY wants to play carry... and they're looking for 4th pos players to play, since there are a lot more free 4th pos players around. possibly contacting lanm. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
rofl #BLACKDOTA | ||
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mutantmagnet
United States3789 Posts
On January 24 2015 20:03 goody153 wrote: https://twitter.com/BlackDotA2/status/558851445164748800 rofl #BLACKDOTA We can be weird sometimes. I fail to see this as humorous if the rumor is true. If it was false from the beginning sure. Considering how out of left field some shuffles were in the past 2 years I would be inclined to believe while the rumor is false these type of things must be playing in the minds of each individual player these days. | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On January 24 2015 10:39 8dada8 wrote: Black never received respect he deserves in VG. Any replacement, if not Rabbit as a rumor I heard, is a failure. doubt rabbit will leave newbee | ||
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
On January 24 2015 06:39 cbk486 wrote: That's sad Why? (performance in Chinese tournaments?)I wonder who they'll get to replace him? To be honest from what I have read, the Chinese criticism against Black mostly concerns VG's ability to call the shots during (hypothetical) clutch situations, not anything specific, or anything that has happened so far. A large portion of the Chinese netizens still like the idea of Black on VG. In fact, this is reminiscent of the divide the DK dream team caused in the Chinese scene: half the people love them, the other half hates them. I suppose if some people already express concerns regarding ethinically chinese foreigners, you can only imagine what they think of a Westerner... To be honest, the reception to his twitter message has been largely positive. Most of the negative comments discussing it are tongue in cheek copy pastas. On the other hand, a lot of praise for his attitude. | ||
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Zea!
9589 Posts
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
On January 25 2015 08:51 Zea! wrote: Why they want to kick Black? He's a fuckin beast :o Black's detractors think Sylar is still a better fit due to communication compatibility. | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On January 25 2015 08:47 fixed_point wrote: To be honest from what I have read, the Chinese criticism against Black mostly concerns VG's ability to call the shots during (hypothetical) clutch situations, not anything specific, or anything that has happened so far. A large portion of the Chinese netizens still like the idea of Black on VG. In fact, this is reminiscent of the divide the DK dream team caused in the Chinese scene: half the people love them, the other half hates them. I suppose if some people already express concerns regarding ethinically chinese foreigners, you can only imagine what they think of a Westerner... To be honest, the reception to his twitter message has been largely positive. Most of the negative comments discussing it are tongue in cheek copy pastas. On the other hand, a lot of praise for his attitude. in general chinese people actually like westerners quite a bit more than other Asians | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On January 25 2015 09:04 fixed_point wrote: Black's detractors think Sylar is still a better fit due to communication compatibility. the other options are sylar and Hao but let's be honest .. sylar won't be leaving LGD and Hao is in the greatest spot out of all the chinese team right now | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
his chinese doing fairly good too | ||
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
Seems like Black is getting kicked | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
On January 29 2015 09:24 Daralii wrote: Vici.Burning hype? Doubt it if my info is correct Burning is going to IG | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
np, np | ||
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h1lbert
United States31 Posts
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cbk486
154 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
I hope it doesn't happen though. I like that guy. | ||
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calmasfok
91 Posts
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Nerfed
Russian Federation1132 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On January 29 2015 16:18 calmasfok wrote: well vici just got rekted by a 14 year old... Just a consolation prize for kicking EG out of TI4 =) | ||
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calmasfok
91 Posts
On January 29 2015 16:21 bearbuddy wrote: Just a consolation prize for kicking EG out of TI4 =) dont be salty, i was trolling | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
Just a friendly banter | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
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Snakesneaks
Italy2652 Posts
Burning to IG Hao is questionable to motivated again and Hao+Mu is inseparable package ZYF is young and cannot give lategame judgement like VG demand Sylar return is possible, but that will sound so stupid Perhaps Rabbit could be the considerable option to replace Black. He is out of form now, but there is still a chance for him to return to his older self. | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
Rabbit going to VG a possibility? Or do they get to poach Sylar. Unless they find a replacement for Fy since rumor has it he wants to play carry. | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
On February 03 2015 06:24 Snakesneaks wrote: Who to replace Black ? Burning to IG Hao is questionable to motivated again and Hao+Mu is inseparable package ZYF is young and cannot give lategame judgement like VG demand Sylar return is possible, but that will sound so stupid Perhaps Rabbit could be the considerable option to replace Black. He is out of form now, but there is still a chance for him to return to his older self. Literally right as I click enter I see your identical post to mine lol whoops. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
On February 03 2015 06:37 rabidch wrote: sylar or rabbit. i think zyf has potential which (i am sad to say) wasted in EHOME. if VG can somehow get mu+hao they'd be the east's team secret Damn that is some shots fired at Mushi. I wonder if his strict vision of the game is what is their downfall. He has passion, but he just doesn't have the talent that Puppey has in drafting and leading. I hope they ride it out, because they still have potential. | ||
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buhhy
United States1113 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On February 03 2015 06:54 shouldbeworking wrote: Damn that is some shots fired at Mushi. I wonder if his strict vision of the game is what is their downfall. He has passion, but he just doesn't have the talent that Puppey has in drafting and leading. I hope they ride it out, because they still have potential. somewhat. mushi is a good player but i dont feel like he is the star he once was. you also have to consider that the other players on his team are not that good. inflame and ddc are a decent support duo but thats about it. i could be wrong thou...i havent watched many games of them in the qualifiers. sylar would be the obvious choice but it would be cool if vg picks up a younger player..mb xinq or maybe? | ||
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GiveMeYourtTots
990 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On February 03 2015 06:54 shouldbeworking wrote: Damn that is some shots fired at Mushi. I wonder if his strict vision of the game is what is their downfall. He has passion, but he just doesn't have the talent that Puppey has in drafting and leading. I hope they ride it out, because they still have potential. mushi is partially to blame, but thats more on his shot calling currently than anything else... u can see they throw a lot of games. he has to captain dd and inflame of all players, and ohaiyo is not that player he was on orange. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
"wake up, breakfast, gym, chinese and then practice" rofl black schedule and damn he practices chinese consistently(90 minutes a day) .. it'll be really sad if he gets kicked | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On February 03 2015 07:26 GiveMeYourtTots wrote: Why is black getting kicked? it's still just a possibility .. according to puppey interview .. black plays like a western player and old school players like super doesn't like playing with that kind of playstyle check the puppey video interview with vlat | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
why iceiceice why | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On February 04 2015 22:45 goody153 wrote: https://twitter.com/XiiTuzi/status/562969351079591937 why iceiceice why | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
He is trying to go Super Saiyan before play offs. By the time TI5 rolls around his hair will be long and spikey enough and he can begin fusion with Black^ and come to his final form. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
He is trying to go Super Saiyan before play offs. By the time TI5 rolls around his hair will be long and spikey enough and he can begin fusion with Black^ and come to his final form. Literal lol Hope they beat Secret tonight! | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
On February 05 2015 09:31 shouldbeworking wrote: He is trying to go Super Saiyan before play offs. By the time TI5 rolls around his hair will be long and spikey enough and he can begin fusion with Black^ and come to his final form. so they say they will "kick black" but they mean he will disappear cause iceiceice is fusing with him. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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aboxcar
United States447 Posts
On February 06 2015 12:16 evanthebouncy! wrote: is there some way of reach out to black? I really like him as a person, and it'll be great if we can send him fanmails he replied to me on twitter before | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On February 07 2015 21:15 goody153 wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiOfkznbs2w omg Black mans..... so much pressure :'( and wow hotbid not shying away from these ON POINT questions.... | ||
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ShootAnonymous
1948 Posts
On February 07 2015 21:15 goody153 wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiOfkznbs2w Somewhat random but: Are those VG scarves for sale anywhere? Both the one iceiceice wore in a CN interview and the one Black^ is wearing here look really good and comfy. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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cbk486
154 Posts
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Ultrapwnage
126 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
black in interview: "yeah some of the western teams just try to maximize the farm, but they don't know how to fight well" case and point today | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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cbk486
154 Posts
On February 08 2015 13:58 goody153 wrote: now we just need them not to kick black .. I would only be kind of okay with that if VG got BurNing. | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
On February 08 2015 14:06 cbk486 wrote: I would only be kind of okay with that if VG got BurNing. it's not ok .. i'll root for this team to lose .. i love them as they are now | ||
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BadAim
Norway879 Posts
On February 08 2015 14:06 cbk486 wrote: I would only be kind of okay with that if VG got BurNing. Black is one of the main reasons my heart belongs to VG. Despite the communication difficulties, he's been preforming really well! | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
EG did roster change, #rekt Secret did roster change, #rekt C9 did roster change, #rekt VG is just getting to that point where they know each other really well, and that's how you can take 5 man fights and be on the same page. Like old Navi, who can always make the big plays. The new meta of farming efficiencies created this illusion if u just get good people and have good farm distribution you get to win, just look at Secret, which added RTZ and Zai, both notoriously good farmers, but VG just proved it otherwise, the fight centric dota is still superior. so i really hope they stay together and attune their playstyles | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
On February 08 2015 14:26 cbk486 wrote: That iceiceice interview with Hotbid was great. It sounds like Black's position on the team is more or less okay since he has been performing well. there is still a finals to come it sure is logical to maybe kick black for another chinese carry but for me honestly i like the VG now due to the current combination personalities especially the black + iceiceice combination if they are out .. i won't have a reason to give a shit about the team and i certainly don't like iceiceice alone .. never been his big fan but i like him together with black | ||
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eieio
United States14512 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
omfg hahaha MANY shots fired!! LOL | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
Poll: What will happen in the next episode of DAC? Jeyo will dye his hair (38) Jeyo will grow a beard (13) 51 total votes Your vote: What will happen in the next episode of DAC? (Vote): Jeyo will dye his hair | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
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cbk486
154 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6592 Posts
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h1lbert
United States31 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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Nomzter
Sweden2802 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
I think they should keep black as well. He's got a lot of growth. If they get someone who is already accomplished there's way less drive to succeed. EG won the tournament mostly on draft rather than gameplay, if you seen a good VG team fight you will see how much they trust each other and their coordination is stunning. Kicking black and getting some other guy will change the chemistry. | ||
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molecu
347 Posts
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Churrass
573 Posts
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
On February 09 2015 19:25 molecu wrote: So what happens to China now? everyone will shuffle | ||
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Invoker
Belgium686 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On February 09 2015 19:19 evanthebouncy! wrote: fy says they're keeping black. I think they should keep black as well. He's got a lot of growth. If they get someone who is already accomplished there's way less drive to succeed. EG won the tournament mostly on draft rather than gameplay, if you seen a good VG team fight you will see how much they trust each other and their coordination is stunning. Kicking black and getting some other guy will change the chemistry. they should keep black, but i dont think they will. it doesnt matter what they say in an interview. but i think its the end of super's time as a not-burden. VG should really try to replace their mid player with somebody better... | ||
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RiZu
Singapore5715 Posts
Super is inconsistent, Black had communication issues and fy isnt the best drafter and is pretty much known for going for smoke gank early. Ah I'm just frustrated that I rushed home only see VG get destroyed. The lack of a good jungler support is punishing them too hard. Vici is a mometum based team who thrill on out playing in team fight. 2nd place isnt too bad at the end of the day. | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
On February 09 2015 20:06 RiZu wrote: As a diehard iceiceice, man i don't understand how his team always choke at the biggest event because of SEA dota, its the same with Mushi | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
Also as I have said many times, Black should stay. He didn't do badly. If someone should leave, it is Super. | ||
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ShootAnonymous
1948 Posts
On February 09 2015 20:08 Ultimo Hombre wrote: because of SEA dota, its the same with Mushi It might be an SEA thing in general. I despair whenever I watch my preferred SG/SEA League teams failing to perform in finals. Goddammit stop choking please. T_T Personal opinion: VG won't change rosters. They're (surprisingly) under less pressure from the CN community I feel. Regardless of the outcomes of their matches they rarely/seldom break/flood SGamer the way other teams like ex-DK, Newbee, iG do/did. (don't judge me >.< SGamer is my guilty pleasure; some of the users there can be pretty amusing/creative with the way they flame players >_>) So there's less outside impetus. On the flip side one can argue that since 3/5 of the players have reached 2nd and 1/5 has reached 3rd at The International before, they might have a nothing-less-than-perfect mentality and hence kick Black^. There's also an undeniable uncurrent of tension in the team (I've watched pretty much all the VG interviews, be they CN/EN, individual/team). And honestly? I seldom find Black^ impressive/outstanding. BUT! looking at the options currently open to VG: 1) They won't want to pick up a pubstar, I feel. CN carry-position pubstars haven't been very successful >_> Plus it's a little late to start grooming someone into a TI-level player. (yes yes something-something-Sumail-something-Artzeey-something but I'm someone more moved by legacy than by little-proven talent/potential) 2) BurNIng is going to iG, Luo even if he were to leave iG is not an upgrade over Black^. 3) Personally I like Sylar, but he's left VG; who knows how re-intergrating him back into VG will turn out. 4) Hao is not a good pick up in his current performance-level either. 5) ZSMJ... I haven't watched HGT's games closely actually, maybe someone can give an assessment. Did I miss anyone? So yes, in Black^ I do not trust, but he's the most practical/beneficial hard carry player available to VG right now. If I were feeling mean I'd say he's the best of a bad lot, but he's not even bad. Just not flashy. And that's honestly got to do with the way VG picks/plays and that's okay. I believe VG as a team understands that, even if their competitiveness means that they're (rightfully) unhappy/unsatisfied. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On February 09 2015 20:06 RiZu wrote: As a diehard iceiceice, man i don't understand how his team always choke at the biggest event . Super is inconsistent, Black had communication issues and fy isnt the best drafter and is pretty much known for going for smoke gank early. Ah I'm just frustrated that I rushed home only see VG get destroyed. The lack of a good jungler support is punishing them too hard. Vici is a mometum based team who thrill on out playing in team fight. 2nd place isnt too bad at the end of the day. I pretty much agree with everything you said... I really want VG win as well, they're the best team to watch, the stuff they can pull is stunning. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On February 09 2015 21:33 ShootAnonymous wrote: It might be an SEA thing in general. I despair whenever I watch my preferred SG/SEA League teams failing to perform in finals. Goddammit stop choking please. T_T Personal opinion: VG won't change rosters. They're (surprisingly) under less pressure from the CN community I feel. Regardless of the outcomes of their matches they rarely/seldom break/flood SGamer the way other teams like ex-DK, Newbee, iG do/did. (don't judge me >.< SGamer is my guilty pleasure; some of the users there can be pretty amusing/creative with the way they flame players >_>) So there's less outside impetus. On the flip side one can argue that since 3/5 of the players have reached 2nd and 1/5 has reached 3rd at The International before, they might have a nothing-less-than-perfect mentality and hence kick Black^. There's also an undeniable uncurrent of tension in the team (I've watched pretty much all the VG interviews, be they CN/EN, individual/team). And honestly? I seldom find Black^ impressive/outstanding. BUT! looking at the options currently open to VG: 1) They won't want to pick up a pubstar, I feel. CN carry-position pubstars haven't been very successful >_> 2) BurNIng is going to iG, Luo even if he were to leave iG is not an upgrade over Black^. 3) Personally I like Sylar, but he's left VG; who knows how re-intergrating him back into VG will turn out. 4) Hao is not a good pick up in his current performance-level either. 5) ZSMJ... I haven't watched HGT's games closely actually, maybe someone can give an assessment. Did I miss anyone? So yes, in Black^ I do not trust, but he's the most practical/beneficial hard carry player available to VG right now. If I were feeling mean I'd say he's the best of a bad lot, but he's not even bad. Just not flashy. And that's honestly got to do with the way VG picks/plays and that's okay. I believe VG as a team understands that, even if their competitiveness means that they're (rightfully) unhappy/unsatisfied. Black^ has shown the potential to grow and probably have the best drive out of all the available people. Just for that I think they should keep him, because he has still yet to reach his potentials. If they replace black they won't pick up a carry, the rumor atm is Lanm to support and FY to carry. | ||
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ShootAnonymous
1948 Posts
On February 09 2015 21:39 evanthebouncy! wrote: Black^ has shown the potential to grow and probably have the best drive out of all the available people. Just for that I think they should keep him, because he has still yet to reach his potentials. If they replace black they won't pick up a carry, the rumor atm is Lanm to support and FY to carry. RIP my almost-favourite support duo if that happens ): But I guess I could get behind this. It makes sense if VG feels that their lack of a jungler will be a big issue come TI. LaNm's draftings were generally the best that came out of DK too, so I guess his experience in that aspect might be an added bonus to the team. (though this whole unretiring business is making me side-eye the heck out of ex-DK members. y u break my dream team like that if you were all gonna come back less than a year later =_= grrr.) | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
On February 09 2015 21:39 evanthebouncy! wrote: Black^ has shown the potential to grow and probably have the best drive out of all the available people. Just for that I think they should keep him, because he has still yet to reach his potentials. If they replace black they won't pick up a carry, the rumor atm is Lanm to support and FY to carry. I personally do not hope this to be true. My favorite support duo would be broken . The F&F combo | ||
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Invoker
Belgium686 Posts
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
"我不知道怎么说用中文所以我会用英文 I am very sorry for the disappointment we have caused in the Finals of DAC and it will probably be the end of one journey, hopefully for another to begin. 谢谢你们支持我 I am very happy to have fans like you around." The boot has been thrown it seems. | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On February 11 2015 20:13 Doraemon wrote: didn't fy wanted to transition to carry? The rumor going around was Black was out, Lanm was joining as a support and Fy was transitioning to carry. Burning said on his stream that Lanm hadn't decided if he wanted to come out of "retirement," so it's up in the air. | ||
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Nomzter
Sweden2802 Posts
On February 11 2015 20:13 Doraemon wrote: didn't fy wanted to transition to carry? I hope not, feels like the Fynrir duo is like 60% of the reasons why they win | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On February 11 2015 20:13 Doraemon wrote: didn't fy wanted to transition to carry? Most probably yes but i really think that the main strength of VG is not about the cores but rather the supports compared to the other teams .. I think it's a bad idea to switch FY. | ||
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Atoissen
Norway1737 Posts
On February 11 2015 22:37 goody153 wrote: Most probably yes but i really think that the main strength of VG is not about the cores but rather the supports compared to the other teams .. I think it's a bad idea to switch FY. I think i disagree. If they can get ahold of a support as good as Lanm, they should acquire him, as they really lack a good jungler in theier reportoare of plays. Fenrir + Lanm sounds hella good imo. Fy is so talented, he can probably become a great carry. I might be wrong, but it might also be the last little step the team needs to be a TI champion. | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
On February 11 2015 23:28 Atoissen wrote: I think i disagree. If they can get ahold of a support as good as Lanm, they should acquire him, as they really lack a good jungler in theier reportoare of plays. Fenrir + Lanm sounds hella good imo. Fy is so talented, he can probably become a great carry. I might be wrong, but it might also be the last little step the team needs to be a TI champion. Its a very huge risk, but a risk have to happen to get next step. Fy is one hell of a talented player, I hope he can be succesful on hard carry if so. | ||
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ShootAnonymous
1948 Posts
On February 11 2015 22:37 goody153 wrote: Most probably yes but i really think that the main strength of VG is not about the cores but rather the supports compared to the other teams .. I think it's a bad idea to switch FY. On an individual level LaNm is as good if not better Fy as a support. The only shadow looming over that possibility would be the whole support duo synergy/rapport thingy (my DK-coloured glasses are attempting to reassure that that won't be an issue) | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On February 12 2015 00:09 ShootAnonymous wrote: On an individual level LaNm is as good if not better Fy as a support. The only shadow looming over that possibility would be the whole support duo synergy/rapport thingy (my DK-coloured glasses are attempting to reassure that that won't be an issue) apparently fy and fenrir shares the earbuds of the same headphone while listening to music. that bromance is real | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
On February 12 2015 00:16 evanthebouncy! wrote: apparently fy and fenrir shares the earbuds of the same headphone while listening to music. that bromance is real share that picture mate | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
Or they start a new meta and have Super and Ice3 play harder carrys and have a 3 man support duo. | ||
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Invoker
Belgium686 Posts
On February 12 2015 00:08 shad2810 wrote: Its a very huge risk, but a risk have to happen to get next step. Fy is one hell of a talented player, I hope he can be succesful on hard carry if so. First time I saw FY's pic I was like "this dude is so fuckin handsome and cool he gotta be a carry". I'm pretty sure he'll be a godlike carry player. I agree that it's a huge risk, but the reward might be huge also. On February 12 2015 01:51 shouldbeworking wrote: I guess by up in the air for Lanm means if VG reshuffle he will join them. Lanm can do both if Fy feels like staying as support or transitioning to carry. Or they start a new meta and have Super and Ice3 play harder carrys and have a 3 man support duo. Safelane and mid free, 3 supports going agro trilane? That's my dream. | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RTUE7Pg.jpg) Apparently is FY GOD birthday today, so happy birthday to my favorite dota 2 player !. FY GOD | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
On February 12 2015 00:16 evanthebouncy! wrote: apparently fy and fenrir shares the earbuds of the same headphone while listening to music. that bromance is real Damn that's pretty real <3 | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On February 11 2015 23:28 Atoissen wrote: I think i disagree. If they can get ahold of a support as good as Lanm, they should acquire him, as they really lack a good jungler in theier reportoare of plays. Fy sand king ring a bell? | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2vlil4/iceiceice_ama/ | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
Black is leaving for real, i'm not in a position to say whose replacing him but it's gonna be someone aggressive in terms of playing. https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2vlil4/iceiceice_ama/coipytj | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
[–]BulletTea 29 points 2 hours ago how many inches? permalink [–]It's really iceiceiceecireve[S] 45 points an hour ago 5 T_T permalinkparent [–]IndridCold11 10 points an hour ago And LaNm? permalinkparent [–]It's really iceiceiceecireve[S] [score hidden] an hour ago 9. permalinkparent [–]IndridCold11 [score hidden] an hour ago Damn. permalinkparent | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
On February 12 2015 10:07 goody153 wrote: Guys black is leaving . Iceiceice confirmed in an AMA https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2vlil4/iceiceice_ama/coipytj If so, the most likely one is either Hao or Rabbit. The least likely one is a unknown pubstar. Or someone out of the box like cty or something. I can't think of anyone else | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
He played horrible in DAC but was an absolute monster in the 1 position for LGD past year, so it's an interesting prospect at least. | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
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Mutineer
New Zealand179 Posts
no of there looses could be blamed on black, I would say more on overall leadership. they were sticking around when they should not ... | ||
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h1lbert
United States31 Posts
Q: If you have to pick DotA players (1&2) for the "best team of all-time", who will you pick ? (And yes, you can include yourself ! :D) ICE3x: hao, super, me, fy, fenrir | ||
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Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
then just not too long ago: http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2vlil4/iceiceice_ama/coj27e3?context=3 | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
On February 12 2015 16:54 Oktyabr wrote: then just not too long ago: http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2vlil4/iceiceice_ama/coj27e3?context=3 So it's most likely Hao? Then what about Mu? Will he follow and they let Super go? | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
? He directly said that Hao isn't joining. | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
On February 12 2015 18:54 cbk486 wrote: ? He directly said that Hao isn't joining. Is it on his AMA? I can't find it anywhere if so. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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vndestiny
Singapore3440 Posts
On February 12 2015 19:10 shad2810 wrote: Is it on his AMA? I can't find it anywhere if so. He (Ice3) literally answered that in the link you quote. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On February 12 2015 12:52 uriel- wrote: Prevailing opinion in the chinese community seems to be Rabbit for now. He played horrible in DAC but was an absolute monster in the 1 position for LGD past year, so it's an interesting prospect at least. roster wise its a good choice. maybe more than anything, this team needs direction. they really can play the aggression but sometimes its just an out of control train | ||
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Churrass
573 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
On February 13 2015 02:05 vndestiny wrote: He (Ice3) literally answered that in the link you quote. I must have past through it since i was reading it on my phone. | ||
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h1lbert
United States31 Posts
I want VG.Hao. :D | ||
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Mutineer
New Zealand179 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
And with Hao moving to VG, this means Super doesn't need to play Ember anymore. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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Nagamundo
131 Posts
On March 11 2015 13:45 Thetwinmasters wrote: IMO vg need a world class drafter tbh their dac drafts especially the finals were very lackluster They drafted well against EG in the winner bracket finals. In fact, I think their DAC drafts were pretty good except for the accidental Lycan. As for the grand finals, I'm not sure it was a drafting issue. Like ice3 said in his ama, the loss may be attributable to some internal issues. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On March 11 2015 14:22 Ultimo Hombre wrote: :/ Doesnt really solve their decision making problems especially in the late game, or their lack of a jungler depends if hao can yell some sense into them | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On March 11 2015 13:35 DucK- wrote: Now they should kick the weakest link for mu :D then they would probably become my undisputed #1 team haha | ||
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
On March 11 2015 16:00 rebdomine wrote: It solves their late game decision making. Everyone dives with Hao! You know what, that might actually work... | ||
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On March 11 2015 13:35 DucK- wrote: Now they should kick the weakest link for mu :D You must not watch a lot of games if you think super is their weakest link. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On March 11 2015 19:12 uriel- wrote: You must not watch a lot of games if you think super is their weakest link. I've watched enough games of super playing every hero like they have 3k hp and 20 armour | ||
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On March 11 2015 16:00 rebdomine wrote: It solves their late game decision making. Everyone dives with Hao! hao is usually more aggressive early and mid game, he plays more safely later | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On March 11 2015 19:39 DucK- wrote: I've watched enough games of super playing every hero like they have 3k hp and 20 armour pretty much. | ||
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BoesFX
1451 Posts
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
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Uranium
United States1077 Posts
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
On March 14 2015 02:17 Uranium wrote: Any smaller chinese tournaments coming up where I can watch the new chinese lineups? Even if they are casted only in chinese and thus not advertised here, I would still be interested to see what's up. Heard that starladder would be starting on the 16th for the chinese scene, not sure if its true or not. | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
HAO WILL THIS TURN OUT?! | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
vg full yolo mode with hao, fails badly | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
sry but as a black fan, this is kind of satisfying. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On March 18 2015 00:11 goody153 wrote: vg seems ok with the new roster .. as long as they stop drafting like shit nothing changes basically. and super is still as always an unstable player | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On March 18 2015 00:34 hunter_x wrote: kick black, get rekt hahaha sry but as a black fan, this is kind of satisfying. i'm sad for the kicking of black too mate . I'm a fan of the old VG squad with black+iceiceice. but they just lost 1 series and really hard to tell when it's all on fy drafting like shit. and Hao didn't perform bad in all those games. | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
On March 18 2015 00:38 goody153 wrote: i'm sad for the kicking of black too mate . I'm a fan of the old VG squad with black+iceiceice. but they just lost 1 series and really hard to tell when it's all on fy drafting like shit. and Hao didn't perform bad fy in all those games. yeah you are right of course. but for me that just shows, that black was not the main issue in that team. if you even can say that they had problems, as they were winning a lot... | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
On March 18 2015 00:43 Elyvilon wrote: Really the only issue VG has is that they don't have a top tier drafter. fy is an incredible player, but he's not an incredible drafter. you are right about that. some questionable drafts indeed. but i think its ok as it is, black did not really belong there... | ||
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eieio
United States14512 Posts
and ya fy is one of my favorite players but relying on him both to draft and to play as the fy-god we all love puts a lot on his shoulders D: | ||
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
On March 18 2015 00:46 eieio wrote: lol goody I didn't think you'd even acknowledge the existence of VG after they kicked black hahahahaha and ya fy is one of my favorite players but relying on him both to draft and to play as the fy-god we all love puts a lot on his shoulders D: Yeah .. i was saying shit like i'm rooting against them or something if black gets kicked ROFL As long as VG can fix drafting they are on a superb spot. I do think Hao is an upgrade to VG. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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caiovigg
Brazil1802 Posts
hope they can do well from now on | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
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Nagamundo
131 Posts
On March 18 2015 03:24 caiovigg wrote: enigma as the offlaner is the worst shit ever, it just doesnt make sense :/ hope they can do well from now on Enigma offlane is decent. You can deny/harass with eidolons. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
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caiovigg
Brazil1802 Posts
On March 18 2015 10:58 Nagamundo wrote: Enigma offlane is decent. You can deny/harass with eidolons. Yeah, but you could have more farm in the jungle. If they had a magnus or tide instead of enigma they would do much better. | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
On March 18 2015 12:49 Caladbolg wrote: Iceiceice should draft. I still can't get over that no-ban draft vs iG at the height of iG's dominance.I dunno, I've never liked Fy's drafts. Iceiceice already has a huge say in VG's draft, just not the one clicking the button. http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XODY0NjQ0NDU2.html Spot the Singaporean (say about 2.50). The other members of the team also has quite a bit of say during the draft. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On March 18 2015 12:54 caiovigg wrote: Yeah, but you could have more farm in the jungle. If they had a magnus or tide instead of enigma they would do much better. I'm not the biggest fan of Enigma offlane, but 'could get more farm in the jungle' holds true for quite a few offlane heroes. The point of an offlaner isn't just to get farm, it's to disrupt the carry's farm and force the supports to stay in the lane. Enigma's good at both. | ||
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NubbleST
United States86 Posts
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
On March 25 2015 10:37 NubbleST wrote: I have a friend who's been playing enigma offlane ~5.5k and getting double kills 1v3. It makes no sense. I'd love to see replays of that. Think you can cop some? | ||
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NubbleST
United States86 Posts
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/83636940/matches?date=&hero=enigma&skill_bracket=&lobby_type=&game_mode=®ion=&faction=&duration= | ||
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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Reson
530 Posts
On March 25 2015 07:23 hunter_x wrote: so i watched quite some games of the new vici, and i have to say, they are not better then with black. but i guess they feel better being all chinese now, who knows. Being all able to speak and understand Mandarin fluently is a definite plus but on top of that the competition has improved also. I firmly believe VG with Black would not have been able to keep up. Even if we don't directly compare Black and Hao head to head, it is easy to see that having Black imposed certain limitations on the team in terms of strategies and combos due to communication affecting execution. The Chinese teams play a very execution heavy based Dota compared to the West which is more strategy dominant. This is partially if not mostly due to playing conditions, as seen in a few of the Chinese games the expected ping is 30 and if one team has high ping such as >100 the other team will gladly wait or remake if it's pre-horn. In the West, not having a ping difference of >100 between the teams is already a good thing. At the moment having 10 players connected to the game for the whole game seems to be a luxury. My point being, to the Chinese players, having to sacrifice execution potential (in this case communication) is a limits their performance significantly. | ||
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
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GiveMeYourtTots
990 Posts
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
On April 01 2015 07:09 fixed_point wrote: I just hope this team doesn't suffer burnout from all the LANs right before TI. i doubt they will attend all, "Visa Issues" will undoubtedly arise. i would say they probably only attend TS3 and ESL. | ||
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
On April 01 2015 09:29 Doraemon wrote: i doubt they will attend all, "Visa Issues" will undoubtedly arise. i would say they probably only attend TS3 and ESL. I hope you're right about the tournaments they might attend. I really want to meet them at ESL. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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fixed_point
Germany4891 Posts
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On April 08 2015 02:02 fixed_point wrote: iceiceice has said on stream that he doesn't want to go to too many tourneys before TI. Basically only wants to play TS3 and ESL. Not sure what other tournaments VG might consider joining. Maybe one of the chinese ones. I think they're seeded into the VPGame Pro League(I made the LP page but can't read Chinese so it was kind of awkward) thing, so you should see some games from them there once the Chinese c-teams are done. | ||
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
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ShootAnonymous
1948 Posts
Tournament win it may be, but it felt really business as usual for the team from their demeanour outside of the game to their in-game play. I mean, barring extreme circumstances VG have their TI invites long-gone secured and they had nothing to prove at SL. At the same time they turned up and performed to expectations, so yay? xD | ||
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Azimuth
231 Posts
On April 27 2015 02:29 ShootAnonymous wrote: GGWP Tournament win it may be, but it felt really business as usual for the team from their demeanour outside of the game to their in-game play. I mean, barring extreme circumstances VG have their TI invites long-gone secured and they had nothing to prove at SL. At the same time they turned up and performed to expectations, so yay? xD I think you summed it up perfectly, winning SL isn't all that but at the same time it is a job and they've done their job well. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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Dysisa
Sweden2376 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
what do we think about this patch for VG? Seems totally a VG patch tbh, a lot of snowball, aggressions, and killing stuff | ||
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Azimuth
231 Posts
Only thing I don't know is who will play Q/E Invoker if it becomes a thing. Super is Q/W, Ice can probably play both but I don't see Hao or Super go offlane to accommodate ice and I have no idea if Hao plays Invoker at all. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
Hope I'm wrong though. | ||
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Count9
China10928 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
if the same newbee played this patch with the same motivation they would be ti contenders again | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 01 2015 08:06 Azimuth wrote: I think so too, I also hope iceiceice Timbersaw makes a comeback. Only thing I don't know is who will play Q/E Invoker if it becomes a thing. Super is Q/W, Ice can probably play both but I don't see Hao or Super go offlane to accommodate ice and I have no idea if Hao plays Invoker at all. Hao can play invoker but it's not a common hero for him at all, I think it was a QE he played though. | ||
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m1racle
Bulgaria8 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On May 02 2015 20:43 opterown wrote: Hao can play invoker but it's not a common hero for him at all, I think it was a QE he played though. i cant remember one game in which hao played invoker | ||
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On May 02 2015 22:18 TRAP[yoo] wrote: i cant remember one game in which hao played invoker I remember exactly one, he played QE 1 position voker and the team lost. Datdota seems to agree with me. Hoping to see the DK-style iceiceice to carryvoker and Hao/super to offlane shenanigans again. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 02 2015 22:18 TRAP[yoo] wrote: i cant remember one game in which hao played invoker I remember one game against DK last year before TI4 where Hao was on Invoker | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
The xp/bounty changes help teams that excel in the early-mid game close them out, and VG is one of those teams. There were tons of cases in the past where VG gets a 5-10k advantage in the first 20 minutes but then gets wiped in a major team fight playing over aggressive, and allows the other team back in. With the rubber band effect decreased, and farming creeps/split pushing less lucrative than before, the meta is exactly where VG wants it to be. On the side of balance changes, it's again a huge patch for them. Just about all of Super's signature heroes got buffed, including the DK & Alchemist that used to be his bread-and-butter, and the Pugna that he used to run in VG's deathball push strats. Icex3's Timber got buffed, his Invoker got buffed, his Prophet got buffed, his off-lane Morph got buffed, and with PL becoming one of the premier 6.84 carries, being able to play it both off-lane and safe-lane is a boon. For Hao, his Naix got buffed, his Gyro got buffed, his PL is now one of the best carry picks, and I imagine he isn't bad with Slark with the way he plays so, the only downside for him is that LD, a hero he's bad on, got buffed, but that's just one hero and Icex3 ought to be able to pick it up. On the support side, VG's signature dual roam is of even greater potence than before. Fy plays NP and 4 Alchemist, I believe Fenrir plays Chen, and I don't see Enchantress being difficult for them to pick up. The only jungle hero that's capable of giving them trouble in b/p this patch is Enigma, which I don't think VG plays very well. Still, that's another one off hero that's easily banned out vs. the best Enigma teams. The only worry VG ought to have for this patch is how not to out-draft themselves, because the weakness of overly versatile teams is that they no longer understand their own game due to cognitive overload. In a way, teams eg TI 4 Newbee, which had a simple way of drafting and knew exactly what to do with those drafts, are safer at TIs because they never outsmart themselves. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
But their biggest weakness, in practice, is their drafts, so even though in theory VG is 1st/2nd world in raw talent, they still stumble vs. great drafters eg PPD. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
That overconfidence in their drafts and abilities is both a strength and a weakness and can set them up to be outdrafted. | ||
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
On May 05 2015 02:37 Azarkon wrote: The only jungle hero that's capable of giving them trouble in b/p this patch is Enigma, which I don't think VG plays very well. Still, that's another one off hero that's easily banned out vs. the best Enigma teams. Doesn't iceiceice play a pretty good offlane Enigma? Even if it's not in the jungle (they can't use him as part of a greedy draft), it still gives them the tools to deal with Enigma during the drafting. | ||
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Nagamundo
131 Posts
On May 05 2015 09:46 syw651 wrote: Doesn't iceiceice play a pretty good offlane Enigma? Even if it's not in the jungle (they can't use him as part of a greedy draft), it still gives them the tools to deal with Enigma during the drafting. I believe I also saw Fy play a pretty good jungle Enigma recently. | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
On May 05 2015 02:37 Azarkon wrote: The only jungle hero that's capable of giving them trouble in b/p this patch is Enigma, which I don't think VG plays very well. Still, that's another one off hero that's easily banned out vs. the best Enigma teams. Both iceiceice and Fy plays a good offlane. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
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Azimuth
231 Posts
This reminded me of TI4 and DAC finals where they didn't just lose but lose convincingly without any clear idea on how to adjust. | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
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Azimuth
231 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:53 Thetwinmasters wrote: super is actually the most inconsistent player i seen this is true but what I dislike most about him is that against good teams he rarely if ever "carries" the team like Hao and iceiceice do a lot of times, his individual skill is good but not great. When VG announced they're bringing in Hao I really hoped Mu would also come but Super's been too long in VG for them to kick him out and I doubt Newbee owner would let Mu go after Xiao8 and Hao left. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:53 Thetwinmasters wrote: super is actually the most inconsistent player i seen Super is actually damn consistent.....at being inconsistent :D | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:57 Azimuth wrote: this is true but what I dislike most about him is that against good teams he rarely if ever "carries" the team like Hao and iceiceice do a lot of times, his individual skill is good but not great. When VG announced they're bringing in Hao I really hoped Mu would also come but Super's been too long in VG for them to kick him out and I doubt Newbee owner would let Mu go after Xiao8 and Hao left. Dont be so reactionary, Super has 'carried' VG more times than fy has post TI4. | ||
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Rix
Singapore39 Posts
Finally, Empire played very well, especially their supports. It's a shame we probably won't see a rematch till TI5. | ||
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RiZu
Singapore5715 Posts
On May 11 2015 16:42 Rix wrote: I feel like VG had some drafting issues - they drafted too greedily against Empire, a team which was able to punish their greed very heavily. Maybe it's because they're experimenting with the new patch, who knows. I also got the sense that VG didn't take the games that seriously (they looked kinda bored in the playercam), whereas Empire prepared substantially for the grand finals. Finally, Empire played very well, especially their supports. It's a shame we probably won't see a rematch till TI5. they are definitely experimenting, at the end of the day, the patch itself will be played on TI5. I gotta admit that VG got caught off guard pretty badly. It pretty crazy how much confidence Empire played with and the willingness to just rush in your face is pretty hard to deal with. All in all, knowing fy he will figure thing out eventually after a tough defeat from DAC/ D2CL. Their win streaks is overhyped as it carried over from the last patch and had only played tier 2 chinese teams so far outside of Newbee. I think there might be a chance Empire will get invited to MarsTV but man I am sure they will invite Na'Vi instead as usual just for the fame. | ||
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Azimuth
231 Posts
On May 11 2015 16:35 Ultimo Hombre wrote: Dont be so reactionary, Super has 'carried' VG more times than fy has post TI4. Don't get me wrong, just because they lost a final doesn't mean I want them to have roster changes. That'd be insane. I do however hope that he becomes more consistent and that his favorite heroes become the new flavor of the month because otherwise he'll struggle big time. | ||
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HighTimeDotA
Canada1412 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:57 Azimuth wrote: this is true but what I dislike most about him is that against good teams he rarely if ever "carries" the team like Hao and iceiceice do a lot of times, his individual skill is good but not great. When VG announced they're bringing in Hao I really hoped Mu would also come but Super's been too long in VG for them to kick him out and I doubt Newbee owner would let Mu go after Xiao8 and Hao left. mu and hao combo costs too much. super is a very agro mid player which fits vgs style. the unsung hero of vg. | ||
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
On May 11 2015 16:42 Rix wrote: I feel like VG had some drafting issues - they drafted too greedily against Empire, a team which was able to punish their greed very heavily. Maybe it's because they're experimenting with the new patch, who knows. I also got the sense that VG didn't take the games that seriously (they looked kinda bored in the playercam), whereas Empire prepared substantially for the grand finals. Finally, Empire played very well, especially their supports. It's a shame we probably won't see a rematch till TI5. I haven't watched all the games against tier 2 teams since the patch, but the ones I did watch make me feel it isn't so much a drafting issue but that they aren't drafting properly at all. In my mind I'm imagining iceiceice sitting behind Fy going "did you see the new aghs on morph/nyx/alch? Let's give that a shot" | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
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lprk
Poland2249 Posts
On May 12 2015 15:39 Caladbolg wrote: Why does Super get so much hate? I really can't understand that. He's been on so many winning teams, handled so many different egos and teammates, and still does very well on heroes that aren't often staple mids (and does well on the staple ones). I really don't get it. Thats because he is very inconsitent and he is either great or horrible, almost never middle ground. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On May 12 2015 15:39 Caladbolg wrote: Why does Super get so much hate? I really can't understand that. He's been on so many winning teams, handled so many different egos and teammates, and still does very well on heroes that aren't often staple mids (and does well on the staple ones). I really don't get it. That's because he is inconsistent as hell, and thinks that every hero has an innate 30 armour and 3k HP. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
Super's ember spirit, sniper and SF were crushing faces during VG's 6.83 run but I guess everyone knows VG is all about dat iceiceice and fy-god. | ||
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Azimuth
231 Posts
On May 12 2015 19:59 uriel- wrote: Nobody notices when super straight up carries the team, that's just him doing his job apparently. But everyone jumps on him when he underperforms. Super's ember spirit, sniper and SF were crushing faces during VG's 6.83 run but I guess everyone knows VG is all about dat iceiceice and fy-god. Sniper was sort of a cancer last patch, his Ember in 6.83 looked good because most of those games were stomps but it's not his fault Ember was trash last patch. I think he just needs to play heroes that can sometimes yolo a bit too much and still escape like QoP, Brewmaster and DK. | ||
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lprk
Poland2249 Posts
On May 12 2015 19:59 uriel- wrote: Nobody notices when super straight up carries the team, that's just him doing his job apparently. But everyone jumps on him when he underperforms. Super's ember spirit, sniper and SF were crushing faces during VG's 6.83 run but I guess everyone knows VG is all about dat iceiceice and fy-god. But it's consitency that wins tournaments not great performances from time to time, VG would have far better shot at winning TI if he was consintently good-very good instead of sometimes horrible sometimes great. | ||
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On May 12 2015 20:20 lprk wrote: But it's consitency that wins tournaments not great performances from time to time, VG would have far better shot at winning TI if he was consintently good-very good instead of sometimes horrible sometimes great. You are not making sense because consistency is by definition a quality over a period of time while tournaments represent a specific point in time. Being consistently somewhat good is not as good as being amazing during the tournament itself, if you had to choose. Obviously being consistently amazing is the best, but not many (nobody) can achieve that. Super was awful in the period leading up to TI4 and then stepped it up during the event. Mu is well-known in the chinese scene for being a hot-and-cold player, and also stepped it up after joining Newbee and then into the TI4 brackets. Those two teams went to the finals. Consistency is a desirable characteristic, but so are so many other things that constitute a player. I just don't know why it's so important to identify a scapegoat when the team as a whole was clearly not in a good condition during that series. It's a small tournament right before a much bigger one, and even the manager said they are using to experiment. Let's see how the team does at TS3 before going into crisis mode, please. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On May 12 2015 19:59 uriel- wrote: Nobody notices when super straight up carries the team, that's just him doing his job apparently. But everyone jumps on him when he underperforms. Super's ember spirit, sniper and SF were crushing faces during VG's 6.83 run but I guess everyone knows VG is all about dat iceiceice and fy-god. I slam super all the time, but I do give credit in the few games that he shows up and dominate. I think everyone slamming super recognises that he has his A games. But I think we rather have a player that consistently gets a B grade, rather than one that gets B 65% of the time, C 25% of the time, and A 10% of the time. A player that we can depend on, that won't lose you the game. | ||
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
On May 13 2015 01:06 DucK- wrote: I slam super all the time, but I do give credit in the few games that he shows up and dominate. I think everyone slamming super recognises that he has his A games. But I think we rather have a player that consistently gets a B grade, rather than one that gets B 65% of the time, C 25% of the time, and A 10% of the time. A player that we can depend on, that won't lose you the game. Change that C to a F and i agree with you | ||
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HighTimeDotA
Canada1412 Posts
its just like people flaming rotk and xiao8 and they got second and first at ti4. gg haters. | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On May 13 2015 05:40 HighTimeDotA wrote: if super was as bad as noobs think he is he wouldve been replaced already. its just like people flaming rotk and xiao8 and they got second and first at ti4. gg haters. that doesnt mean people cant talk/flame about them. rotk is one of my favourite players and there is a reason why he can consistently compete with the best teams in the world but that doesnt mean we cant talk about his sheever ravages | ||
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Azimuth
231 Posts
On May 13 2015 05:40 HighTimeDotA wrote: if super was as bad as noobs think he is he wouldve been replaced already. its just like people flaming rotk and xiao8 and they got second and first at ti4. gg haters. To be fair, rotk and xiao8 are known for their leadership, drafting and just in general captaining a team, neither of them are known as great mechanical players and they don't play mid which is probably the most mechanic intense position. | ||
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Rix
Singapore39 Posts
On May 13 2015 06:49 Azimuth wrote: To be fair, rotk and xiao8 are known for their leadership, drafting and just in general captaining a team, neither of them are known as great mechanical players and they don't play mid which is probably the most mechanic intense position. I believe Xiao8 played mid for LGD in 2013 and more recently for Big God | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On May 13 2015 18:12 Rix wrote: I believe Xiao8 played mid for LGD in 2013 and more recently for Big God he's not really amazing at mid .. the current mid Maybe obviously plays a better mid than him | ||
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On May 13 2015 01:06 DucK- wrote: I slam super all the time, but I do give credit in the few games that he shows up and dominate. I think everyone slamming super recognises that he has his A games. But I think we rather have a player that consistently gets a B grade, rather than one that gets B 65% of the time, C 25% of the time, and A 10% of the time. A player that we can depend on, that won't lose you the game. As I was saying, a consistent B grade doesn't win TI. If he is F- throughout the year and goes A+ during TI, that wins TI. That's an extreme exaggeration obviously but you get my point. And I don't think super "lost VG the game" either - their losses against empire came down to drafts and misplays by everyone, including things that aren't so obvious like vision and team decisions. Nobody seems to be criticizing the captain and drafter even though that's the person who should come under fire first and foremost when teams get thoroughly outplayed - for some reason it's always "super the weakest link". | ||
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BoesFX
1451 Posts
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Atoissen
Norway1737 Posts
On May 13 2015 18:22 goody153 wrote: he's not really amazing at mid .. the current mid Maybe obviously plays a better mid than him Xiao8 was a amazing mid, and I believe he still would be if that was the pos he practiced. | ||
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fluidin
Singapore1084 Posts
iceiceice interview in case anyone hasn't caught it yet. Warning: rated R | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On May 13 2015 19:55 Atoissen wrote: Xiao8 was a amazing mid, and I believe he still would be if that was the pos he practiced. honestly while he was good .. he wasn't that "good" like the difference between sing, mynuts from the best mids like Ferrari/rtz/others also it's a waste to put Maybe on something he doesn't excel that's like putting suma1l on support or something where he couldn't what he does best | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
On May 13 2015 20:18 goody153 wrote: honestly while he was good .. he wasn't that "good" like the difference between sing, mynuts from the best mids like Ferrari/rtz/others also it's a waste to put Maybe on something he doesn't excel that's like putting suma1l on support or something where he couldn't what he does best Yeah its not exactly a controversial statement to say that Maybe is a better mid player than xiao8 | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On May 13 2015 20:39 Ultimo Hombre wrote: Yeah its not exactly a controversial statement to say that Maybe is a better mid player than xiao8 well out of the two xiao8 certainly the one who knows how to adapt though not that Maybe has tried adapting but he generally plays carry/mid so why throw him away of his comfort zone .. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On May 13 2015 18:53 uriel- wrote: As I was saying, a consistent B grade doesn't win TI. If he is F- throughout the year and goes A+ during TI, that wins TI. That's an extreme exaggeration obviously but you get my point. And I don't think super "lost VG the game" either - their losses against empire came down to drafts and misplays by everyone, including things that aren't so obvious like vision and team decisions. Nobody seems to be criticizing the captain and drafter even though that's the person who should come under fire first and foremost when teams get thoroughly outplayed - for some reason it's always "super the weakest link". My point is that the +4 is good enough to win TI. All they need is a solo mid that can reliably do his job. But super and reliability are like opposites. That guy could actually miss razes on stunned heroes. I don't always blame super for everything. They often do lose due to awkward drafts by fy. I said many times how I feel ever time Vici drafts a relatively early clock for iceiceice. Not that he is bad at the hero, but they expect him to do so much while providing so little. We all love to see A+ super show up. But when will he come? Will he even show up in TI? Or will not-so-super turn up as he often is these days. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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Azimuth
231 Posts
And that Decrepify on Fenrir to save his life at 2% hp was masterful. | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On May 14 2015 07:52 Azimuth wrote: Props to Super, his Alch was on point and so was his Pugna. And that Decrepify on Fenrir to save his life at 2% hp was masterful. That was a sick play indeed. | ||
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Rix
Singapore39 Posts
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
And yeah, back to Super... I recall a Dendi and 430 interview back in TI2 (when they were the two mids most talked about by everyone) and both of them said that Super was the best mid they faced (instead of each other). | ||
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Reson
530 Posts
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RiZu
Singapore5715 Posts
On May 14 2015 13:12 Reson wrote: As much as it's fun for Ice to troll around sometimes. I hope they ask Josh to translate some of the. Hotbid Interviews next time to help showcase the interviewee's personality more directly. He did the subtitles for the video. | ||
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ActStyle
43 Posts
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ActStyle
43 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
they picked ember at the _very_ last second, probably doesn't want to play him. They need to find a new hero for super, and honestly he could've played sniper, really... | ||
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On May 17 2015 11:33 evanthebouncy! wrote: iono what happened probably got out drafted that last game. they picked ember at the _very_ last second, probably doesn't want to play him. They need to find a new hero for super, and honestly he could've played sniper, really... Probably wanted Alchemist, Alchemist was banned, didn't know what to pick and panicked. | ||
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OzVelas
Bulgaria516 Posts
On May 17 2015 12:41 the bear jew wrote: Probably wanted Alchemist, Alchemist was banned, didn't know what to pick and panicked. They could have picked dk whos pretty similar to alchemist.. and that second pick timber was so odd | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On May 17 2015 15:24 OzVelas wrote: They could have picked dk whos pretty similar to alchemist.. and that second pick timber was so odd Deleted as wrong info. Yeah, i don't understand their game 3 draft tbh either after that. I mean i understand the fear of DK getting dominated mid hardcore but they understood well they had to sac one of lanes at this point either way. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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cbk486
154 Posts
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
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ActStyle
43 Posts
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RiZu
Singapore5715 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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cbk486
154 Posts
On May 18 2015 14:19 DucK- wrote: So I said that Vici will pull a DK2014 in TI5, and I still stand by what I said. Basically they lose to themselves because they choke in drafts. Yeah...it pains me as a DK fanboi to see history repeat itself again. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 18 2015 14:19 DucK- wrote: So I said that Vici will pull a DK2014 in TI5, and I still stand by what I said. Basically they lose to themselves because they choke in drafts. The only intersection between VG2015 and DK2014 is Icex3. Are you saying that Icex3 is responsible for draft chokes? | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 19 2015 04:10 Azarkon wrote: The only intersection between VG2015 and DK2014 is Icex3. Are you saying that Icex3 is responsible for draft chokes? Or maybe teams can have similar issues without having the same players. How shocking a concept that would be. | ||
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
On May 19 2015 06:39 WolfintheSheep wrote: Or maybe teams can have similar issues without having the same players. How shocking a concept that would be. If I where to guess, it would be that a large individual skill advantage leads to complacency in other areas (such as draft). So when a new patch lowers that skill advantage right before TI, there isn't sufficient time to bring the other areas up to the same level. Iceiceice is just unlucky that he might end up being in this situation twice. | ||
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lolnoty
United States7166 Posts
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CxWiLL
China830 Posts
On May 19 2015 04:10 Azarkon wrote: The only intersection between VG2015 and DK2014 is Icex3. Are you saying that Icex3 is responsible for draft chokes? Well, imo, very possibly. Even though Ice3 is never the drafter for both team and he himself also admitted in the interviews that he was not good at drafting. Ice3 might be the reason of the choke for both team. Ice3 is versatile and talented. In order to make him shine, both teams picked him playmaker heroes instead of some utility heroes, that is why ice3 has an unconventional hero pool. For example, in DK2014, Nyx and Bat is often handed to Mushi because ice3 is not so good at them. As the result, both team can be cornered by this, the most obvious example is in WPC 2nd final, IG keep letting ice3 having his famous invoker or NP, which can result in an underfarmed Mushi that is easier to deal with. So ice3 is like, make a not so appropriate comparison in basketball, a PF that is very good at 3 point shooting. Very valuable as a player, but the coach might have some difficulties building strats around him. | ||
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CxWiLL
China830 Posts
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
On May 20 2015 09:27 bearbuddy wrote: I feel like the drafts are fine. Vici is just execution heavy and there's no appropriate practice partners against the western teams in china, leading to the derpy moments when the new patch hit. Give them a month and they'll be fine. i think VG has a better practice partners and environment than EG honestly .. Eg can't properly scrim against the EU teams and NA teams are shit. VG can completely go toe to toe with Secret or EG for sure and maybe in a better day i'm sure they could win. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On May 20 2015 10:16 goody153 wrote: i think VG has a better practice partners and environment than EG honestly .. Eg can't properly scrim against the EU teams and NA teams are shit. VG can completely go toe to toe with Secret or EG for sure and maybe in a better day i'm sure they could win. yeah, hence the day1 EG and that ppd is basically a genius. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
but odd numbered years are supposed to be a western year anyways, so... | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On May 20 2015 08:04 CxWiLL wrote: Well, imo, very possibly. Even though Ice3 is never the drafter for both team and he himself also admitted in the interviews that he was not good at drafting. Ice3 might be the reason of the choke for both team. Ice3 is versatile and talented. In order to make him shine, both teams picked him playmaker heroes instead of some utility heroes, that is why ice3 has an unconventional hero pool. For example, in DK2014, Nyx and Bat is often handed to Mushi because ice3 is not so good at them. As the result, both team can be cornered by this, the most obvious example is in WPC 2nd final, IG keep letting ice3 having his famous invoker or NP, which can result in an underfarmed Mushi that is easier to deal with. So ice3 is like, make a not so appropriate comparison in basketball, a PF that is very good at 3 point shooting. Very valuable as a player, but the coach might have some difficulties building strats around him. Iceiceice was always the nyx/bat player. Only when they decide to draft invoker, would they put mushi on those heroes. And that has nothing to do with ice being bad on nyx/bat, but mushi/burning being bad on invoker. Vici has no problems with invoker picks because super/black/Hao all can play him competently. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
I'm sure they'll eventually adjust, but in the mean time, perhaps they need a shot caller with a cooler head to stop those YOLO plays. It's like watching them repeatedly run into a brick wall. | ||
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zdarr
France375 Posts
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On May 23 2015 19:37 bearbuddy wrote: Man. The struggle is real. Too many save the buddy syndrome and train feeds. Too many attempted turns that ultimately lead to 4,5-men wipe. Pretty ironic that while the previous iteration of the team thrived on 5-manning while this one seems to struggle in it. I'm sure they'll eventually adjust, but in the mean time, perhaps they need a shot caller with a cooler head to stop those YOLO plays. It's like watching them repeatedly run into a brick wall. when vg's fighting go bad it's usually like this | ||
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aboxcar
United States447 Posts
but when they lose, we also blame the train style ?? such is how history is written | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On May 24 2015 03:10 aboxcar wrote: an author of this site not long ago praised vg precisely for their "train" playing style but when they lose, we also blame the train style ?? such is how history is written Live by the train. Die by the train. Choo choo~ But no, that's not a contradiction. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34171 Posts
On May 24 2015 03:10 aboxcar wrote: an author of this site not long ago praised vg precisely for their "train" playing style but when they lose, we also blame the train style ?? such is how history is written One dimensional team ? | ||
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BillGates
471 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On May 24 2015 17:05 BillGates wrote: But I thought it was Black that was the problem no? That wasn't the case? How many first places with Hao as carry? starladder and if you really think hao isnt an upgrade over black you are blind | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
On May 24 2015 17:05 BillGates wrote: But I thought it was Black that was the problem no? That wasn't the case? How many first places with Hao as carry? Hao is a huge upgrade from black it's very noticable. | ||
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
On May 24 2015 18:10 DucK- wrote: Most of their losses in finals were draft losses. And even with subpar drafting they are still placing decently. It's just disappointing to see them fall just a little short several times in a row because of what seems like the same issue each time. But hopefully they'll work it out before TI5. In the long run, I think it's better to have your weaknesses pointed out now (when you have time to regroup and fix things) than to have them discovered during TI5. | ||
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Azimuth
231 Posts
On May 24 2015 21:35 syw651 wrote: And even with subpar drafting they are still placing decently. It's just disappointing to see them fall just a little short several times in a row because of what seems like the same issue each time. But hopefully they'll work it out before TI5. In the long run, I think it's better to have your weaknesses pointed out now (when you have time to regroup and fix things) than to have them discovered during TI5. This is very true as long as they acknowledge their problems and put serious thought and work into fixing it. If they just dismiss it as lack of practice or the new patch and those sort of excuses it could spell bad for them. Even though with these problems they are still getting good results, they are after all a team made to win big LANs and eventually TI rather than just have good placements. | ||
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
I find it intriguing as they usually draft as a team and have such problems. Maybe if they allowed fy to draft himself he would have a clearer gameplan instead of taking in too many opinions and getting confused. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On May 24 2015 03:10 aboxcar wrote: an author of this site not long ago praised vg precisely for their "train" playing style but when they lose, we also blame the train style ?? such is how history is written That they train is a fact, but if its any good or not depends on their results. | ||
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HighTimeDotA
Canada1412 Posts
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Rix
Singapore39 Posts
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Azimuth
231 Posts
Unfortunately no questions about Hao drafting. | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 29 2015 16:33 rebdomine wrote: Wasn't there a time when he was TongFu's drafter? Or am I misremembering things. he was even newbee's drafter for a time after xiao8 left | ||
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cbk486
154 Posts
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Faruko
Chile34171 Posts
On June 08 2015 11:29 shouldbeworking wrote: I guess whatever they were theorycrafting was wrong and that its causing problems in the team. FY said a month ago they had trust issues. Most of their losses has been blamed on drafts so I guess that's why Hao is drafting to try something different. Now that they failed at MDL we will see what happens at ESL. If we see someone else drafting (ice3 lol?) then we will know VG is really going full on fucken tilt. To be fair, Secret went from Puppey --> Zai --> s4 in about 2 months they just need to find the perfect one. | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Rix
Singapore39 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
On June 08 2015 12:24 Rix wrote: I think Ice3 drafting with Fy and Hao making sure he doesnt make stupid mistakes would be the best. i'm sure everybody has inputs on the draft although whoever making the final decision(the captain) do matter | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
What the hell? ROFL | ||
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Azimuth
231 Posts
Outside of some questionable plays they played pretty damn well but the drafts have been poor to say the least. I'd really like for Fy to start drafting again. His drafts had flaws but atleast had some sense. | ||
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RiZu
Singapore5715 Posts
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Elurie
4716 Posts
On June 16 2015 20:46 Ramiz1989 wrote: http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/news/31404-ace-fines-iceiceice-for-not-wearing-vg-jacket What the hell? ROFL Haha. I've seen Chuan not wearing jackets quite often too. Maybe all teams should have t-shirts along with jackets, so players can chose which to wear. Or team-bandanas. | ||
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Calm_Dan
2 Posts
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cc1691
16 Posts
When Black was still in the team, he would be relatively quiet and it would be mostly fy/Super talking, with Icex3 and Super chipping in. Now the support dual is silent. Why would you even draft fy wisp? That's not where his strengths lie. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
yeah, that's what it is, of course. | ||
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
The way they've been capitulating the past couple months, it doesn't even feel like a team anymore. You get a few moments of individual brilliance every game to remind you that the team has five amazing players, but then they inevitably collapse like a team that doesn't know what to draft and what to do every single game VG plz | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
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RiZu
Singapore5715 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
VG goes full out aggro and is claimed best team in the world 6.84, more kill gold for supports, less rubber bands, and fighting lineup seems so strong. VG goes very suck. discuss? | ||
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HighTimeDotA
Canada1412 Posts
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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Reson
530 Posts
On June 21 2015 00:02 evanthebouncy! wrote: 6.83, huge rubberbands, late game sniper n shit seems so strong. VG goes full out aggro and is claimed best team in the world 6.84, more kill gold for supports, less rubber bands, and fighting lineup seems so strong. VG goes very suck. discuss? More like 6.84: 6 weeks, 5 LANs, 3 countries China ---> Germany ---> USA ---> China ---> Germany I think they have spent more time on planes in 6.84 than practicing and adjusting to new patch. This patch was bigger than usual too with so many new items. Pretty sure they changed drafters to freshen things up since they were running off old ideas anyways. | ||
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
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Valhalla44
Bosnia-Herzegovina983 Posts
( | ||
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kRooKster
Australia21 Posts
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BillGates
471 Posts
This easily shows how changing just one player can have profound impact and not always positive one. | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6592 Posts
On June 22 2015 02:05 BillGates wrote: But, but I thought Hao was supposed to make them better and have them win more tournaments!!?? This easily shows how changing just one player can have profound impact and not always positive one. Hao's probably just speaking the wrong kind of chinese. I'm sure once they fix the communication problem everything will be fine. | ||
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
On June 22 2015 02:48 OmniEulogy wrote: Hao's probably just speaking the wrong kind of chinese. I'm sure once they fix the communication problem everything will be fine. I feel like this post has more salt than the dead sea. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
On June 22 2015 02:48 OmniEulogy wrote: Hao's probably just speaking the wrong kind of chinese. I'm sure once they fix the communication problem everything will be fine. hahaha awesome | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On June 22 2015 02:05 BillGates wrote: But, but I thought Hao was supposed to make them better and have them win more tournaments!!?? This easily shows how changing just one player can have profound impact and not always positive one. the patch has more to do with it than anything else. i cant believe people are still salty about this | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
On June 22 2015 02:05 BillGates wrote: But, but I thought Hao was supposed to make them better and have them win more tournaments!!?? This easily shows how changing just one player can have profound impact and not always positive one. Hao is clearly an upgrade to black. It's quite obvious even if black was still here they'd still probably lose or maybe place even worst and not win some tournaments. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
Interviewer asking iceiceice if this was an experiment or they are hiding strats. "we are not hiding anything. We are just bad . Secret and EG are just better." | ||
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
On June 22 2015 17:12 goody153 wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR4Kpox9kmE Interviewer asking iceiceice if this was an experiment or they are hiding strats. "we are not hiding anything. We are just bad . Secret and EG are just better." If you where hiding strats, would you admit publically that you where hiding strats? Alternatively, admitting it is the first step to getting fired up and turning it all around! | ||
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xAdra
Singapore1858 Posts
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Invoker
Belgium686 Posts
That's what happens when a tourney gets 15M prize pool and others just 500K. | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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Evander Berry Wall
United States1137 Posts
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
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Azimuth
231 Posts
On June 23 2015 17:57 syw651 wrote: I think the individual skill and talent is all there. With a whole month and $15M as motivation, I really hope they get it together and surprise us again just like TI4 They'll be back. Don't know if it will be enough to win a TI though. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
On June 23 2015 17:57 syw651 wrote: I think the individual skill and talent is all there. With a whole month and $15M as motivation, I really hope they get it together and surprise us again just like TI4 I'm hoping for the same! | ||
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cc1691
16 Posts
Great casts, great game 'fy with his rotations' What happened to this VG?! | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On June 26 2015 12:33 DucK- wrote: Vici is fine. The good thing is that it's clear they were trying out different drafts. So it's not a lack of competence. I think fy should remain the drafter, because unlike hao at least he doesn't get out drafted that often. Not like they switched to hao because fy got outdrafted in like a million grand finals in a row | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On June 26 2015 13:22 uriel- wrote: Not like they switched to hao because fy got outdrafted in like a million grand finals in a row They at least reached the grand finals. | ||
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Evander Berry Wall
United States1137 Posts
And I think it's fair to say that results have shown that Hao was not the one they were looking for. So from here, they can either give Super, Fenrir, or iceiceice shots in the drafting chair, or resign to the notion that their drafting isn't getting better and just commit to stability instead, sticking with Hao or going back to Fy, and just concentrating on their other areas. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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unkkz
Norway2196 Posts
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manicmessiah
United States107 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/myUUxLp.png) 'VG & Jeremy Lin | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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xalazias
Australia32 Posts
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Rix
Singapore39 Posts
On August 04 2015 18:35 DucK- wrote: Iceiceice needs to step up his game. Please bring back the dominant offlane monster. He's back. | ||
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WetSocks
United States953 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
OH YEAAAA | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
I think a lot of it has to do with him gaining confidence crushing his lane. He owned bone7 so hard in both games during the laning stage. Game 1 was even funnier cause bone7 had the first blood and bounty rune headstart going into the lane. | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
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Azimuth
231 Posts
If they can keep up the momentum and work on their early game (game 1 they'd lose if they played any team except C9) they have a shot at going far | ||
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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unkkz
Norway2196 Posts
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BoesFX
1451 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On August 08 2015 08:29 unkkz wrote: Well they are definately back. Game 1 vs LGD was very convincing. Time to give Iceiceice an aegis. You jinx'd it, heh. Well, it was a good run through the LB. Congrats to VG on a pretty decent finish despite not playing very well in this patch. | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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BoesFX
1451 Posts
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
But still, 4th in such a stacked competition with huge upsets from the qualifiers as well is quite an achievement. | ||
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RiZu
Singapore5715 Posts
I am still salty that VG lost in the drafting stage their draft has the potential but it required them to play perfectly. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
for now. But overall very proud of the boys | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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Nomzter
Sweden2802 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
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BoesFX
1451 Posts
On August 08 2015 22:50 hunter_x wrote: Kick Black, get 4th at ti Don't kick Black and maybe VG got the same place as IG. | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
Edit: Unlike that C9 team. | ||
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
On August 08 2015 23:24 BoesFX wrote: Don't kick Black and maybe VG got the same place as IG. You know thats some Kind of meme? | ||
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
On August 08 2015 11:23 Doraemon wrote: i reckon ice and hao are gone. And I hear RotK is a fairly good captian and offlaner. And maybe Sylar would make quite a stable carry for the team | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On August 09 2015 17:02 syw651 wrote: And I hear RotK is a fairly good captian and offlaner. And maybe Sylar would make quite a stable carry for the team I see what you did there. | ||
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Azimuth
231 Posts
We saw yesterday how CDEC fell apart because their mid can't play Lesh and Sumail dominated the lane against him with a freaking Ember. Ember should never win vs Lesh mid in this patch at the highest level of Dota, heck he should get crushed. I'm curious what will happen with Super, he's a bit of a weak link but he's also been with VIci a long time now. Their other weakness was their drafts. Sometimes they draft poorly or like in game 3 vs LGD they have a draft that needs to be played almost perfectly to work. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
But if he has a large contribution of VG's decision making ingame and why they are a successful team then there's prolly that. | ||
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Azimuth
231 Posts
On August 10 2015 00:20 goody153 wrote: I found Super underwhelming compared to the other mids of china . Like you can count on Ferrari, Mu , Maybe and others to have a more stable performance most of the time than him outside some periods where he was suddenly so fucking good but mostly he is not really impressive compared to others . But if he has a large contribution of VG's decision making ingame and why they are a successful team then there's prolly that. Eh, Ferrari has been pretty underwhelming aswell, and same as Super had a great game here and there but no consistency. At this point I'd prefer Mu over Super, especially if Hao stays because those 2 go way back. I think the biggest thing for VG though has to be a change of leadership. It seems these days players individual skill is pretty close so the best teams are the ones with best drafts, strategy and mental stability. At the highest level of play just outskilling your opponent isn't enough, best example probably being Secret. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
Yes please ! I just wanna see Hao and Mu together. | ||
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Azimuth
231 Posts
On August 10 2015 01:01 goody153 wrote: Really? Well this tournament and a short while before TI5 ferrari did kinda not do so hot. Although out of all IG he usually is the stable one from what i've seen. Yes please ! I just wanna see Hao and Mu together. This whole patch Ferrari has been kinda off but so has been the whole IG so hard to say I guess. He'll probably never leave IG though so I don't even consider him as an option in case they were to replace Super which is possible but not very likely because he's been a big part of Vici for a considerable time now. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On August 10 2015 01:09 Azimuth wrote: This whole patch Ferrari has been kinda off but so has been the whole IG so hard to say I guess. He'll probably never leave IG though so I don't even consider him as an option in case they were to replace Super which is possible but not very likely because he's been a big part of Vici for a considerable time now. Yeah he's prolly as important as FY to VG now. (not the brand uhm the player for the team) If he's like the important part of VG's ingame decision making as a team then yeah prolly unlikely | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On August 10 2015 00:20 goody153 wrote: I found Super underwhelming compared to the other mids of china . Like you can count on Ferrari, Mu , Maybe and others to have a more stable performance most of the time than him outside some periods where he was suddenly so fucking good but mostly he is not really impressive compared to others . But if he has a large contribution of VG's decision making ingame and why they are a successful team then there's prolly that. Yeah, super's a great player in his own right but his inability to dominate mid seems to limit fy's drafting. | ||
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gaijindash
Japan376 Posts
#Dashwasright | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
which Chinese mid is actually better significantly and available? mu is one... but he's not a dominate mid... ferrari will stay with iG most likely. Both are not really that better than super. maybe, CTY? air? VG don't look like a team that want to foster younger talents, and even if they do, they probably take someone from VG.young There is no Chinese Sumail... or Chinese RTZ looking outside of China, Mushi will suit assuming if he want to come back to China. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
On August 10 2015 01:15 synapse wrote: Yeah, super's a great player in his own right but his inability to dominate mid seems to limit fy's drafting. which Chinese mid is actually dominant in the same fashion as RTZ/Sumail? no one and that is the problem. | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On August 10 2015 12:49 haduken wrote: which Chinese mid is actually dominant in the same fashion as RTZ/Sumail? no one and that is the problem. maybe. also cty and mu and ferrari when they are in form | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
I think Ferrari is an upgrade. But what Vici really needs is a top drafter. They ran out of ideas against lgd. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On August 10 2015 12:57 DucK- wrote: I didn't see the usual feeding super this TI. But I also didn't see much of the 'hot' super too. An invisible performance by him. I think Ferrari is an upgrade. But what Vici really needs is a top drafter. They ran out of ideas against lgd. there's literally just xiao8, rotk and q(we still have to find out if he can draft in longer time) on the chinese scene. Ferrari may never happen he's too deep of IG. On August 10 2015 12:47 opterown wrote: mu to VG would be nice Hao + Mu all over again pls ! i'd like to see that | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
On August 10 2015 12:51 opterown wrote: maybe. also cty and mu and ferrari when they are in form i keep watching ferrari to see when he make things happen, it ain't happening. CTY is suppose to be the next Chinese hope. Got rekt vs RTZ and Sumail. Mu RPG'ed, still I don't consider him dominant, going from Super to Mu is not really that big an upgrade. Maybe may or may not pan out, time will tell. Then there is the great problem for every mid that you've listed. When they are IN FORM. Sumail/RTZ almost always perform for their teams (win or lose), the Chinese mids need a good day to be even, nevermind winning. Consistency is the key to domination. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
cty and maybe definitely can match up to sumail mid, or come extremely close to it Sumail needs an extraordinary amount of space to be impactful. Watch EG CDEC game 2 where the mid broodmother sucked up all of EG's jungle, sumail was extremely famished and could not perform. By contrast super doesn't suck up the jungle nearly as much, and as a result his mid is at an disadvantage super's hero has just been underperforming this patch. He's a backbone mid, if you imagine fear played mid. His heros are dp / razor / dk, and none of those are popular during TI5. I don't know. I'd like to see a mid upgrade as well but I think a team sticking together and improving is more important than getting good players, as seen by secret (what a joke). | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On August 10 2015 14:24 evanthebouncy! wrote: I watched all the TI5 games. cty and maybe definitely can match up to sumail mid, or come extremely close to it Sumail needs an extraordinary amount of space to be impactful. Watch EG CDEC game 2 where the mid broodmother sucked up all of EG's jungle, sumail was extremely famished and could not perform. By contrast super doesn't suck up the jungle nearly as much, and as a result his mid is at an disadvantage super's hero has just been underperforming this patch. He's a backbone mid, if you imagine fear played mid. His heros are dp / razor / dk, and none of those are popular during TI5. I don't know. I'd like to see a mid upgrade as well but I think a team sticking together and improving is more important than getting good players, as seen by secret (what a joke). Well secret underperformed this TI5 but it's not like the roster didn't get stronger when somebody got added they definitely improved multiple times over when they added zai and rtz. They even dominated so hard for a while even as an evidence. Obviously all teams have periods of slump it's a shame that they slumped during TI5 the tournament that matters the most but at the end of the day everybody gives their best every tournament they sucked during TI. And TI is just another tournament honestly without the money and fame. It's just like SL12 run by secret. Also fear played mid back on EG 2014 and he could play space creating mid heroes like puck for example so that does not excuse Super at all. | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
On December 08 2014 19:06 DucK- wrote: I think vici is the best team in the world now. But here is what's going to happen till ti5. 1. Chinese tournaments are going to start and the Chinese will develop their own meta initially inspired from western scene. The meta will be flawed compared to the west, but those flaws will be ignored because Chinese players are generally more skilled and will make their meta appear better than what it is. 2. Vici drafter will be under pressure from coaches and peers to conform to the Chinese meta instead of drafting what has been working for them. Their performances will deteoriate and the slump begins. 3. They finally decide to ignore the meta and start drafting to their strengths. There will be a resurgence. 4. In ti5 they will again go conservative and follow the meta. They will do badly, wake up and revert their drafts back again, and finish 4th after EG, Secret, and a new Chinese dream team. TL;DR, Vici 2014/15 will do a DK 2013/14. not bad..guess CDEC was the chinese dream team | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
It's a difficult position being perceived as the best team and everyone trying to figure you out into the tournament. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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buhhy
United States1113 Posts
On August 10 2015 14:40 Doraemon wrote: not bad..guess CDEC was the chinese dream team This man is a prophet! Except Secret bombed. | ||
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
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mutantmagnet
United States3789 Posts
He did that on purpose. Inaccuracies lowers detection by the Timelords. | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On August 13 2015 21:13 syw651 wrote: It's been a few days and nothing has surfaced about the annual post-TI shuffle. Do you guys think that epic lower bracket run might mean VG won't be changing things up before the next major? iceiceice is apparently off the VG ingame roster | ||
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Azimuth
231 Posts
On August 14 2015 00:10 Elyvilon wrote: iceiceice is apparently off the VG ingame roster he's on Zenith's roster, always has been, reddit kneejerking per usual | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
:D | ||
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eieio
United States14512 Posts
he definitely used the VG tusk sigil but who doesn't lol | ||
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kaleidoscope
Singapore2887 Posts
edit: not sure if ice3 is trolling on stream (and typo lol, had Navi instead of Secret..) | ||
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
On August 14 2015 03:06 eieio wrote: pretty sure ice3's stream said something about VG in the title when I watched this morning but I was barely awake maybe I'm imagining things he definitely used the VG tusk sigil but who doesn't lol Maybe iceiceice took the VG sigil off tusk cause he has PTSD from all the times they lost to their own sigil in the group stages | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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BoesFX
1451 Posts
On August 10 2015 14:40 Doraemon wrote: not bad..guess CDEC was the chinese dream team It supposed to be warning, not prophesy. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
Nah. At that point in time, the post was written as a prediction of what would happen. I think I got some elements right :D | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On August 18 2015 04:00 ref4 wrote: VG needs a strong leader like rotk in TI4 or else they will remain the "slightly worse than LGD and CDEC" chinese team for a long time. They didn't have rotk yet they were comfortably the best team in the first half of the season. I am of course supportive of relieving fy from drafting duties because he seemed to have run out of ideas. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
was watching his strim but he was very reluctant to answer questions like "r u leaving vg" or "r u going to america". any guesses? | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
Meaning I won't have to change flairs this year. | ||
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
On August 23 2015 20:06 rebdomine wrote: With burning joining vg, I have a feeling he's staying. Meaning I won't have to change flairs this year. Do you have a source for that? And did they kick Hao or did Hao choose to leave? If they did make changes, I was hoping they would get a big personality, like RotK cause I feel like that's what the team needs right now. | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On August 23 2015 20:12 syw651 wrote: Do you have a source for that? And did they kick Hao or did Hao choose to leave? If they did make changes, I was hoping they would get a big personality, like RotK cause I feel like that's what the team needs right now. ggnet claims that vg acquired burning instead of hao dunno how accurate it is, some of their other predictions seem incorrect | ||
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Azimuth
231 Posts
So don't jump on/off the ship just yet. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
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wxyLkz
210 Posts
both are good at offlane so how can it be perfect when you have 2 player good at one thing and you can only let 1 of them play the game they want? if its true that burning replaces hao not sure if its a good move but both are known 1 pos. player difference is hero pool and how they play | ||
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wxyLkz
210 Posts
you mean iceiceice leaving rotk replacing him sorry bout that haven't read the rumor bout iceiceice yet | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
Guess my yearly flair shuffle is still gonna be a thing. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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Azimuth
231 Posts
On August 24 2015 18:23 babysimba wrote: Would be nice if Ice3 join Ehome and reunite with Lamn. Zyf + Ice + Lamn + Kaka + 1 seems like a beastly team. Too bad CTY was on loan from DK and not officially on ehome's roster. They lose ROTK though if this happens. I guess LaNm can lead them? I don't care much about Burning but I think getting ROtk over ice would be a very good upgrade in terms of leadership/drafting and ice wasn't a whole lot better this TI than Rotk, they both had their feed moments. So if Rotk indeed joins then VG's biggest weakness will be Super who I think won't be replaced so I pray next meta is all about DK, Alch, Pugna and Razor. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
On August 24 2015 20:00 babysimba wrote: Except mid pugna is already capable of taming the cancer pony but nobody realises it :D idk about you but mid pugna is 1 stun + lightning away from dying half the time during the laning phase | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
And it seems like, with a little bit less miscommunication, it could have worked out perfectly as well. So close... | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
Ice3 staying on VG it seems like. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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wxyLkz
210 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On September 04 2015 00:28 goody153 wrote: VurninG What r u Spanish lolol. I think burning is the stability the team needed. Although sometimes I doubt his drafting abilities... Damn I wanted lanm so bad | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
their draft looks so wonky but all of a sudden huge burst of magical damage and they kill 3, 4, 5 in a row holy shit | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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trollcenter
362 Posts
On October 27 2015 07:45 rabidch wrote: super seems to be a common factor in the games they lose. Yeah, he's played in all the games they lost. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On October 27 2015 07:45 rabidch wrote: super seems to be a common factor in the games they lose. but he's been getting better. He's drafting now and I think he might be getting a hang of things. I like their drafts a lot | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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vndestiny
Singapore3440 Posts
Edit: I'm over exaggerating obviously, most of their losts came from weird decision making from what I saw, took fights where they should not. User was warned for this post | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On October 27 2015 10:38 Ultimo Hombre wrote: Super gets a bit too much hate, he's played better than Burning in the tournament so far and better than iceiceice at TI (and at every single TI since the first one) but after every loss ppl love to blame Super. This is like when rotk used to get trashed constantly by people when he was on DK burning was not even bad at this tournament if u think about it except that one ember game where super was like 8th in the networth chart and lost mid heavily..tho,i am not the super hater,but the game against VP was all on him not buying bkb after stealing all the farm on the map..burning was pretty okay,even good in all their games.his gyro,am and ember in game 1 against cdec were by no means fails.VG seems like losing in drafting stage most of the time more than plays.the best example is game 2 against cdec where they didnt had a way against minus armor i am liking that burning is freeing his lane after early game for supports and ganking around the map. | ||
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
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Horo
United States351 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
As much hate as Super is getting-- he's just in a difficult position because of the lack of help he gets. Fy is too greedy as a support-- sometimes it works out and sometimes multiple lanes are lost. While Black is considered the mini-Burning, I feel like Black has superior mechanics and laning, so he wasn't babysat as much. As of right now, the enemy offlane gets way too much and Super gets pressured mid. There's not much time to do anything for the Major, but I would like to see VG switch things up afterwards. I know it's blasphemy, but maybe they can experiment with Fy core and work in Zyf somewhere. Their SL12 form was really incredible, and I hope VG can get back to where they were. | ||
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
This is made even worse when their drafts are becoming questionable. I'm not sure what kind of shake up does VG need though. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Come on, this team placed 2nd and gave Secret (the team in the best recent form) a decent run in the finals. Any talk about roster changes is just a massively silly overreaction. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On November 02 2015 08:56 yamato77 wrote: 1st large tournament with Burning at safelane and you guys are already talking about a shake-up? Come on, this team placed 2nd and gave Secret (the team in the best recent form) a decent run in the finals. Any talk about roster changes is just a massively silly overreaction. Heh, yeah. But it's disconcerting when there are multiple games where VG just gets run over, something that rarely happens in the previous iterations of VG. The old adage that it's difficult to out-execute VG simply doesn't exist anymore. | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
On November 02 2015 10:08 bearbuddy wrote: Heh, yeah. But it's disconcerting when there are multiple games where VG just gets run over, something that rarely happens in the previous iterations of VG. The old adage that it's difficult to out-execute VG simply doesn't exist anymore. Its a mixture of how good Puppey is and how fucked up VG's plan was that equals those stompy games. Puppey abuses other teams mistakes very well and there is no recovering from that. When Tiny just started destroying the SF you knew it was going to be over. I'm guessing VG didn't plan on Tiny being picked mid and the slardar tiny combo +bh secured their mid game so hard. Then you had AM who was getting out of control to seal the deal. VG and all of China is probably going to have roster changes around lunar new year anyways. VG needs to be on the lookout for a new prodigy mid. Since consistency just isn't enough when you want to be champs. Look at what happened to CDEC at Ti5. Not getting the most out of mid makes the game so much harder. | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
On November 02 2015 10:47 shouldbeworking wrote: Its a mixture of how good Puppey is and how fucked up VG's plan was that equals those stompy games. Puppey abuses other teams mistakes very well and there is no recovering from that. When Tiny just started destroying the SF you knew it was going to be over. I'm guessing VG didn't plan on Tiny being picked mid and the slardar tiny combo +bh secured their mid game so hard. Then you had AM who was getting out of control to seal the deal. VG and all of China is probably going to have roster changes around lunar new year anyways. VG needs to be on the lookout for a new prodigy mid. Since consistency just isn't enough when you want to be champs. Look at what happened to CDEC at Ti5. Not getting the most out of mid makes the game so much harder. They have zyf as a sub, I wonder how he is mid. | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
On November 02 2015 13:10 rebdomine wrote: They have zyf as a sub, I wonder how he is mid. I think he started as a mid | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
I'd said it before, but Vici will never win ti with super. He has his games, but there's also many where he fucks up mid hard. Consistently inconsistent. It is a joy when he is on song, but it becomes a feeling of routine/inevitably whenever he plays badly. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
the hate/blame certainly feels like another scapegoating attempt for super getting outdrafted in atleast 3 games of grand finals..and yeah,Yj would have also done same thing at burning's place..what do u expect when ur rest of the team has soo far behind?jump into 5 heroes mindlessly?stop saying aggressive word if u thing aggressive means jumping like retard under enemy towers | ||
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CxWiLL
China830 Posts
Burning have a tradition of downgrading his mid player. It starts with super on DK 2012-2013, super used to be DK's counter-part of 430 and Mu, and considered as the most talented of the three. Then Mushi in DK 2014, turning the almighty M-god in TI3 into, well, what he is right now. And 430 in IG this year, you can clearly find that 430 can no longer dominate the mid as much as he was. Now super has to be burning's mid player for the second time, you can expect what is happening to him. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On November 02 2015 15:52 CxWiLL wrote: According to sgamers, Burning have a tradition of downgrading his mid player. It starts with super on DK 2012-2013, super used to be DK's counter-part of 430 and Mu, and considered as the most talented of the three. Then Mushi in DK 2014, turning the almighty M-god in TI3 into, well, what he is right now. And 430 in IG this year, you can clearly find that 430 can no longer dominate the mid as much as he was. Now super has to be burning's mid player for the second time, you can expect what is happening to him. Sgamers and their memes..a more retarded version of reddit where school kids spam some random things and hate towards certain player...and it's not like 430 cant dominate his lanes..it's just that times changed and other new generation mids are surpassing the likes of dendi,430 and super | ||
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Valhalla44
Bosnia-Herzegovina983 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
..and it's not like 430 cant dominate his lanes..it's just that times changed and other new generation mids are surpassing the likes of dendi,430 and super That Sgamer shit is just funny chinese superstition memes. Correlation =/= causation yadda yadda, but its still funny at how stupid it is. What are the OG mids suppose to do when they can't get on the same level as the new prodigies. You kind of contradicted yourself with that statement. Honestly I have no idea what I'm talking about anymore. The mid role has evolved and is different for every team. You have mids that get ganked 4 times then take over mid game anyways because of stacks and kills. Then you have mids that tilt and just feed away their lead even with support ganks. VG tried to shut down the tiny, but he got rekted by the bh and slardar rotations later on anyways then never recovered. Is it the supports fault or Super's for not being able to have the game sense. Just goes to show how an individual's fault are magnified when the whole team is fucking up. So bottom line is the whole of VG has problem's, but the individual mistakes definitely make them look worse. Works the opposite way too, hence all the EE and w33 praise. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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honeylover
82 Posts
On November 02 2015 14:40 Kamisamanachi wrote: pretty ridiculous to see people are trying to scapegoat by saying burning doesnt fit..i mean no carry player fits any team .it's just that how whole team synergizes with each other and adapt according..and so far,it is more of burning adapting to VG style rather than VG adapting to him..about 80% of the games at NYC ,burning came to fight early to set the tempo of the game when super lost his lanes.and at 20% of the games VG were so far behind that noone could carry them to victory like that DP game where he tried to carry the game but a single core slark can't do much against a monster farmed am.. the hate/blame certainly feels like another scapegoating attempt for super getting outdrafted in atleast 3 games of grand finals..and yeah,Yj would have also done same thing at burning's place..what do u expect when ur rest of the team has soo far behind?jump into 5 heroes mindlessly?stop saying aggressive word if u thing aggressive means jumping like retard under enemy towers But... I feel Burning is just like chinese-speaking Black. And in this meta, looks like "jumping like retard under enemy towers" carry is more useful than a farming carry. We had at least 3 out of total 5 loses against secret literally because Team Secret's "jumping like retard under enemy towers" carry. When u have 4 people put a constant pressure a whole game, u should join them and died with the result of winning teamfight. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
There are some criticisms to throw on all of them in individual games, but the only player who stood out as playing consistently badly was Icex3, but I think that's still on how the team works as a whole: offlaners almost always look trash when they're not helped (e.g. Misery recently, only exception I can think of might be Universe). Really, it's just the way the team functions and drafts rather than any individual being the main problem. Super maybe isn't incredible, but he's not awful - he's good enough to force respect bans, at any rate. Anyway, VG cemented themselves as a top 5 team. That's pretty good, no? | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On November 02 2015 19:10 honeylover wrote: But... I feel Burning is just like chinese-speaking Black. And in this meta, looks like "jumping like retard under enemy towers" carry is more useful than a farming carry. We had at least 3 out of total 5 loses against secret literally because Team Secret's "jumping like retard under enemy towers" carry. When u have 4 people put a constant pressure a whole game, u should join them and died with the result of winning teamfight. and in 2 out of the 5 losses ee played am vs them....a farming carry. i would agree with fuzzyjam here. vgs drafts are questionable at times and the only player that really underperformed in some of the important games was ice | ||
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unkkz
Norway2196 Posts
Definately my favorite chinese team this and has been for a while, just stabilize the drafts and have Ice3 actually have an impact and they golden. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
I kinda think that's what makes him not as good as say universe in this regard. Iceiceice simply doesn't play well the moment he gets shut down. But when he gets a good lane, he is the undisputed best offlaner. | ||
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fyky
Iran3 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On November 18 2015 09:11 evanthebouncy! wrote: super DELIVERS last game vs VP Yeah, was super beat down. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
game 2 was a pretty bad mess from super since fy/fenrir love to sack him and G got way too large that game. VG draft and use of NS was utterly pointless | ||
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scicurious
8 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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vndestiny
Singapore3440 Posts
Their decision making, team fight coordination & skills are definitely up there, I just think their draft is a bit subpar vs Puppey's and ppd's atm. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
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scicurious
8 Posts
On November 19 2015 08:15 evanthebouncy! wrote: burning is okay on qop. It's just secret drafted really well. Meepo is one of the best qop counters I'm not saying he's terrible or anything, but compared to a lot of his other heroes he just doesn't seem comfortable on QoP at all. They're not out yet, so I hope they re-evaluate their drafting, other than that the team is fine. Burning looked really good on Lina yesterday. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On November 19 2015 13:11 scicurious wrote: I'm not saying he's terrible or anything, but compared to a lot of his other heroes he just doesn't seem comfortable on QoP at all. They're not out yet, so I hope they re-evaluate their drafting, other than that the team is fine. Burning looked really good on Lina yesterday. he is performing really good on almost all the heroes..and it always comes down to the drafting stage if they pick late game carry for him or not..he can play aggressively but it the security of the lategame u get when u give burning a late game carry which super hasn't been doing..VG's early game is pretty weak and they rely on their teamfights for mid game .so giving him a farming carry and let him farm as secret does with envy will do no harm ..atleast it is better than random lycan mid and safelane qop against doom, ember ,shaman | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
I think Vici is also in a rough spot. They clearly need a leader/drafter, but they do not want to break up their support duo. There's no other good leaders around in other positions. So if they want to go forward, I feel they just need to fully trust fy all the way. I dislike Super's drafts a lot because they feel very limited and exposed. It never feels like a good draft when they win, but more of a meltdown by their enemies or just outplay by Vici. | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
He's an excellent player and i hope he goes back to his best, but hes currently the most inconsistent one on VG, which is pretty funny considering he has ice3 and super as teammates | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On November 19 2015 15:26 Ultimo Hombre wrote: I think rotk left too early, fy is still VG's best drafter imo but his development as a drafter seems a bit stunted? It's obviously a key reason for their losses but lets also not pretend like burning has played really well this tournament. He was poor on qop (even against secret's lineup, blinking into 3 heroes after your team has already retreated, tping into 4?), poor on pl and god awful on slardar. Burning is also in an odd place now because the patch doesnt favour farming carries. Out of the ones that people play: am is situational, his gyro/pl is nothing special and super is a better ember player He's an excellent player and i hope he goes back to his best, but hes currently the most inconsistent one on VG, which is pretty funny considering he has ice3 and super as teammates Isn't super drafting right now? | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
ya i mean even if they go back to fy, there are still problems | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
They need a drafter that's it, I agree with whoever said RoTK should've stayed longer, but RotK was in Vici for sylar's bromance, and you can't say ice3 is a downgrade. People flame super a lot but he's not even that bad as people make it out to be. VG just favor their supports in term of money distribution and leave mid to die a lot, that's just how their style works and it's fine. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
I mean they played with both black and Hao, honestly burning seems to fit better than them , Hao is just better than both of them as a carry and individual skills but burning has better team synergy. | ||
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Kabras
Romania3508 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On November 19 2015 18:03 Kabras wrote: they just need to put fy mid and all their problems are over. super has the same issues as fata had in the old c9. he's really good at do shit melee cores but he gets heavily outclassed when he needs to play farmers or skillshot heroes. well alchemist's a farmer too but anyone can farm on that hero. the few games ive seen him play sf or lina turned out terrible for him and i don't remember the last time he played qop or ta. if i was 357 i'd be preparing this for the next big lan, fy's already a really good mid player and his hero pool is probably the largest on vg. Zyf Fy Ice3 Lanm Fenrir/kaka One can dream <: | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
pretty terrible dream..not too sold on zyf and idk why one can dream to break fy+fenrir support pair.. On November 19 2015 17:47 goody153 wrote: Burning's not bad (except maybe with razor lmao dude so bad with that hero). I'm not really sure if you burning needs to be replaced. I mean they played with both black and Hao, honestly burning seems to fit better than them , Hao is just better than both of them as a carry and individual skills but burning has better team synergy. i can agree with hao having more aggressive style than burning but when it comes to map awareness ,burning is definately better than hao and i dont think there is any gap between those two.. AND the biggest thing, they are still in this major and have a fair chance to get into grand finals ..i just hope,they dont tilt and draft random like they did yesterday in game 3.. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
It's just burning fits more to VG weird cause Hao was supposed to fit VG more cause he's the aggressive carry and VG just runs and kills people. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
and he is fitting more to VG because he is playing around VG more often than letting VG play around him..which is far different from what he used to play..VG can now leave him in one lane and he will get decent farm with VG supports getting farm ..but i can agree with VG supports need to protect super in mid more if they want him to win the lane | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
Im pretty sure Hao was still the better fit to them. Heroes like doom, qop, all used to be played by Hao which was better, the 3rd game either VG just herpderped and thought doom disabled BB's passive or burning just kept dooming the BB for no apparent reason. There needs to be a big shake up in this team, the main 4 of iceiceice/fy/fenrir/super is limiting this team from reaching back to the greatness they were. Don't get me wrong, they are still the best few mechanically skilled heroes all around, but the way they play nowadays are really getting uninspiring. fy Fenrir on good days absolutely can destroy teams but with the meta now they keep getting weird support picks which throws off their game so hard | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On November 20 2015 21:13 Invictus wrote: There needs to be a big shake up in this team, the main 4 of iceiceice/fy/fenrir/super is limiting this team from reaching back to the greatness they were. Don't get me wrong, they are still the best few mechanically skilled heroes all around, but the way they play nowadays are really getting uninspiring. fy Fenrir on good days absolutely can destroy teams but with the meta now they keep getting weird support picks which throws off their game so hard i agree. they still have the skills and thats why they go far in most tournaments (ti,nanyang,frankfurt major) but the problem seems to be that their skill is the only thing they can rely on. their drafts are nothing special and i feel like the way they play around their midlane just doesnt work out vs the best teams. i dont think super as a player is the problem but he often gets heroes that need space (f. e. lina, ember) but fy and fenrir refuse to help during the laning stage if they want to focus on other parts of the map they should give him heroes that can comeback through teamfighting or pushing. ehome also tends to do that and oldchicken seems to always do fine later on | ||
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RiZu
Singapore5715 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Just crumbled vs Secret because of that pocket strat (game 3 they were clearly still tilted) And Ehome also caught them by surprise with their drafts Things that can be easily fixed. Qop and Doom are not Burning's best heroes but hey - he just needs to practice them more | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On November 20 2015 21:23 LemOn wrote: Good showing by VG overall no? Not sure why change anything Just crumbled vs Secret because of that pocket strat (game 3 they were clearly still tilted) And Ehome also caught them by surprise with their drafts Things that can be easily fixed you are not wrong. it just feels like vg has the skills to win events and not just come close | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
On November 20 2015 21:25 TRAP[yoo] wrote: you are not wrong. it just feels like vg has the skills to win events and not just come close Its also that they feel like their declining instead of improving over the past year, even though they placed pretty highly in a bunch of tournaments. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On November 20 2015 21:13 Invictus wrote: Yeah gg folks i hoped VG at least cracked top 2 but an earlier defeat would help alot more, VG has been stagnating too much even though all of them are individually skilled. Im pretty sure Hao was still the better fit to them. Heroes like doom, qop, all used to be played by Hao which was better, the 3rd game either VG just herpderped and thought doom disabled BB's passive or burning just kept dooming the BB for no apparent reason. There needs to be a big shake up in this team, the main 4 of iceiceice/fy/fenrir/super is limiting this team from reaching back to the greatness they were. Don't get me wrong, they are still the best few mechanically skilled heroes all around, but the way they play nowadays are really getting uninspiring. fy Fenrir on good days absolutely can destroy teams but with the meta now they keep getting weird support picks which throws off their game so hard it was for no apparent reason and it was not his alone descision...he doomed bristle for whole game...it was their team descision/shotcalling to doom bristle and kite his team around that ,but his team had fucking 4 healing heroes which VG couldnt deal with ...i think these 2 games were sold on shotcalling and mostly on drafting(as is the problem with super for whole major) people will still find a way to blame burning tho even if super drafted all the shit for him which he is not comfortable with . felt like super was trying to play 1 position most of the time sacrificing burning's farm / leaving him alone in the lane and when he lose the lane to opponent mid ,he then relies on his team to make space for him.. anyway,seasonal carry change for VG incoming ,i think...tho it never worked for them since 1 year and they didn't realized the real problem with the team which is drafting and shotcalling.and anyone should be insane for calling burning was the problem on this team...the guy gave it all after all the heroes he got drafted with ..idk what more u expect when ur team can't trust u. just a reminder that a team with burning never drafted an am for him throughout the tournament | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
I could see a 1. Hao 2. Maybe 3. ICE3 4. FY 5.Xiao8 team doing well. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On November 20 2015 21:47 shouldbeworking wrote: If CDEC doesn't get poached like crazy there isn't much of a shuffling to be had. I don't think Ehome is going to change much, because out of all the older teams they seem to be improving the most. That means NewBee, LGD, VG and IG are left to shuffle. They will have to risk new blood finally or just shift those same players around with mixed results. Also Xiao8 needs to return. I could see a 1. Hao 2. Maybe 3. ICE3 4. FY 5.Xiao8 team doing well. Xiao8's never played 5 and even when he played 4 on LGD, he was more of a 3, being given more farm priority than Yao in most games. I mean it's Xiao8 so who knows, maybe he can just switch positions at will, but I'm not sure 5 really suits his talents. If we're doing dream teams, I think the team's Aggressif Maybe Xiao8 Lanm MMY. :D | ||
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giddo
6 Posts
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On November 20 2015 22:22 giddo wrote: I guess its probably not a popular opinion but i still think black^ was the best fit for vicis playstyle. I feel that burning really needs support to help him be effective just like a traditional carry while vicis supports usually do lots of stuff but helping the carry doesn't seem to be high on their list of priorities. black^ might have many faults but when he played for vici he was good at farming without any help and coming to fights once he was ready. Having burning play carry with little support just seems like a waste to me. Either change the teams playstyle or change the carry. black needs more support besides him whole game and he does nothing but farms for 40 mins without any teamfight sense at all...there were many moments with fnatic where fnatic were losing with 4vs 5 and black was just afk farming only to throw all his farm in drain with 1 retarded play in late game .IDK which VG u wathed,but that patch was famous for late game carries and VG supports made a lot done early game .while black got free lane ...and with this iteration,they just left burning early in lane without support to farm..also,black got away with his descision making because of that patch being the late game ,but when it came to latest patch,his descision making is pretty mediocre at best. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On November 20 2015 22:28 Ultimo Hombre wrote: nah, the best fit for VG was sylar because rotk made him fit within the team...VG had actual captain at that time and sylar has been really irreleavant about his performance since after TI4 .(saying this as a sylar fan)...IDK what happened to the guy,but it never felt like he was playing carry after he left VG | ||
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malcram
2752 Posts
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vndestiny
Singapore3440 Posts
However the 4 others vg cores feel feels stubborn enough so probably another carry shuffle is coming. Like that's gonna fix their problems but I'm not having my hope high. | ||
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
@orome having both xiao8 and lanm on the same team would cause problems because there would be clashing in captaining | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On November 20 2015 22:22 giddo wrote: I guess its probably not a popular opinion but i still think black^ was the best fit for vicis playstyle. I feel that burning really needs support to help him be effective just like a traditional carry while vicis supports usually do lots of stuff but helping the carry doesn't seem to be high on their list of priorities. black^ might have many faults but when he played for vici he was good at farming without any help and coming to fights once he was ready. Having burning play carry with little support just seems like a waste to me. Either change the teams playstyle or change the carry. maybe. their team obviously worked out at that point in time but i dont think they could repeat their success. you also have to consider that while vg did well outside of china they had problems vs chinese teams and could only win one tournament vs old boys | ||
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scicurious
8 Posts
Squad works well imo, they just need to iron out some drafting issues. But 6.86 is coming soon, so yay. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
happens every year | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On November 20 2015 22:44 Invictus wrote: @orome having both xiao8 and lanm on the same team would cause problems because there would be clashing in captaining Lanm has no issues being second in command. That team is obviously never going to happen though. | ||
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deathzz
669 Posts
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
I wonder why zyf wants to be on Vici as a sub. Realistically he is not going to learn anything by being an understudy in that fashion. Unless he has constraints in being competitive atm, I really hope he joins a proper team. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
I agree that drafts are the problem, but I don't know how you solve it because I'm pretty sure by now they must have tried everything out. Just work on game understanding? Call in a coach? IDK. | ||
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fyky
Iran3 Posts
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tehh4ck3r
Magrathea7046 Posts
http://www.dota2.com/majorsregistration/list | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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BoesFX
1451 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
seems like team might disband soon dunno | ||
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
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Batmankills
145 Posts
On February 26 2016 16:00 evanthebouncy! wrote: iono about the chances here tbh. seems like team might disband soon dunno Seems like the case with every Chinese team here. Ehome also played godawful yesterday . | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
also found this on reddit | ||
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vndestiny
Singapore3440 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
On February 27 2016 21:27 Kamisamanachi wrote: what the heck super...this definately costed them the game..lmao..if he could have lived there ,he could have stalled the game as burning was 40 seconds away from respawn No it didnt. Fnatic push way too quickly at that point and whatever stall invoker offers (a ton) would still not be enough, VG would also lose every 4v5 fight at that scenario. Incredibly stupid by Super, but if you want to be really reductionist and point fingers at a specific moment, the move that cost VG the game was Burning going in after popping cheese | ||
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Batmankills
145 Posts
On February 27 2016 22:09 Ultimo Hombre wrote: No it didnt. Fnatic push way too quickly at that point and whatever stall invoker offers (a ton) would still not be enough, VG would also lose every 4v5 fight at that scenario. Incredibly stupid by Super, but if you want to be really reductionist and point fingers at a specific moment, the move that cost VG the game was Burning going in after popping cheese I agree on unsalvagable game but BurNing got force staffed by fnatic inside their base when he was hitting their tier 3 tower and it was incredibly difficult game for sven as fnatic had all the kiting heroes in the world after sven bkb ends .BurNing took one step in after fnatic force staffed in and then tried to get out but his bkb ended and resulted in him getting shackled ,hexed ,impaled and kited.Super casted a tornado when BurNing was getting kited and it barely hit anyone. idk if it was communication issues or something but whole vg felt like disconnected from one another in all of their games.The only game they won was because of a monster farmed morphling.if they get atleast half of their draft upto decent level ,they can reach top5 at this major.At this stage,they seems as clueless as ehome which I am surely surprised of. | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
On February 28 2016 04:05 Batmankills wrote: I agree on unsalvagable game but BurNing got force staffed by fnatic inside their base when he was hitting their tier 3 tower and it was incredibly difficult game for sven as fnatic had all the kiting heroes in the world after sven bkb ends .BurNing took one step in after fnatic force staffed in and then tried to get out but his bkb ended and resulted in him getting shackled ,hexed ,impaled and kited.Super casted a tornado when BurNing was getting kited and it barely hit anyone. idk if it was communication issues or something but whole vg felt like disconnected from one another in all of their games.The only game they won was because of a monster farmed morphling.if they get atleast half of their draft upto decent level ,they can reach top5 at this major.At this stage,they seems as clueless as ehome which I am surely surprised of. Largely in agreement, but Burning didnt try to get out after he got forced and popped cheese, he decided to go for Mushi. It was only a few seconds later when he was near the tier 4s that he got rooted - bashed - shackled | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On February 26 2016 18:58 uriel- wrote: This team is bad. 100% changes after the major. Correction: full disband after the major. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On March 03 2016 03:14 evanthebouncy! wrote: never the same after ^Black they looked fantastic at starladder after they added hao the patch after sl changed everything | ||
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VvvV1251
Algeria142 Posts
I don't know what kind of issues they have, but i hope they will fix them and come stronger by the next major/tournament. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On March 03 2016 02:11 spudde123 wrote: Time for Secret.iceiceice! not if zai gets there first ! | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Whatever it is, VG is not alone, I always wanted west to be better but this is just a disaster | ||
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qqMagnuz
44 Posts
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CxWiLL
China830 Posts
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lphwo
Malaysia751 Posts
On March 03 2016 02:11 spudde123 wrote: Time for Secret.iceiceice! Even if Secret wanted to have a roster change, which they won't, iceiceice has a fairly serious girlfriend in China so I doubt he will leave China. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
the rumored roster is : Rotk , Cty , BurNing , Kaka + 1 | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
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Evander Berry Wall
United States1137 Posts
That rather general preamble about China brings me to this supposed lineup. It doesn't impress me, even assuming things aren't so bad for China. I think rOtK has actually been a pretty great captain overall, in spite of what happened in Shanghai. He's always been shakier as an actual player. Cty is probably one of the best, if not the best mids in China right now, barring some here-to-fore unknown pub star. When rOtK and Cty were on EHOME together they did better than I think anyone was really giving them credit to do. The rest, though... Look, Burning is overrated. I don't want to be a dick, but I just can't see how he isn't. I can't see why this lineup would do any better than the average squad with Burning it. Adding Kaka to that mix really doesn't help. Kaka is the one guy that I always forget is on EHOME. Supposedly he has some awesome MMR. I don't know, maybe support isn't the role for him, but this lineup wouldn't appear to give him a chance to do anything else. We don't know who the other person is, except that we know it isn't iceiceice, Fy, or Fenrir. Is it supposed to be somebody better than those players? Who? VG without the support duo is almost unimaginable, and I've never felt that the team's low points were because of them. Seriously, just yesterday I was thinking about who'd be the first person I'd kick from VG, and I decided it was Burning (but maybe Super), and now I see this possibility that he is literally the only person not kicked. I hope it's misinformation. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On March 07 2016 20:57 Evander Berry Wall wrote: I know everyone is down on the Chinese players right now because of the results at the major, but even in spite of a general trend of issues for China, this event was singularly and unpredictably bad, so I'm only letting it effect my view of Chinese teams so much. I haven't forgotten that the EHOME who went out in a 12-9 spot this tournament 3-0d EG in a grand finals in the prior LAN. That rather general preamble about China brings me to this supposed lineup. It doesn't impress me, even assuming things aren't so bad for China. I think rOtK has actually been a pretty great captain overall, in spite of what happened in Shanghai. He's always been shakier as an actual player. Cty is probably one of the best, if not the best mids in China right now, barring some here-to-fore unknown pub star. When rOtK and Cty were on EHOME together they did better than I think anyone was really giving them credit to do. The rest, though... Look, Burning is overrated. I don't want to be a dick, but I just can't see how he isn't. I can't see why this lineup would do any better than the average squad with Burning it. Adding Kaka to that mix really doesn't help. Kaka is the one guy that I always forget is on EHOME. Supposedly he has some awesome MMR. I don't know, maybe support isn't the role for him, but this lineup wouldn't appear to give him a chance to do anything else. We don't know who the other person is, except that we know it isn't iceiceice, Fy, or Fenrir. Is it supposed to be somebody better than those players? Who? VG without the support duo is almost unimaginable, and I've never felt that the team's low points were because of them. Seriously, just yesterday I was thinking about who'd be the first person I'd kick from VG, and I decided it was Burning (but maybe Super), and now I see this possibility that he is literally the only person not kicked. I hope it's misinformation. The only answer to that is competent drafter which VG lacked entire time.It felt like fy or super had no knowledge of meta (i agree with swindle on this) and just drafted whatever the heck they are good at without considering the meta..while it's sad ,very sad to see fy and fenrir leave VG and break up,i am really happy that fy is choosing to team up with Zyf ..i don't agree with your thoughts on BurNing so won't go into that territory. and last player won't be anyone from ice3 ,fy or fenrir as fenrir and ice3 are going to ehome while fy is going to VG.P squad.and regarding whom they first kicked,it was going to be super ..i don't see a reason why they will continue to kick carry players millionth time from their team. i am not sure how can u shift the blame for VG's downfall over 1 player by scapegoating when they all 5 together looked like epitome of no teamwork. btw,u are not the one to deicide who getting kicked tho :D. and this rumor is coming from chinese inner circles which sometimes becomes true ,everyone is giving thumbs down to this VG roster (if it is real) already.so it will only be upward way if this roster is indeed true.i think people should atleast wait for them competing before passing judgements. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On March 07 2016 20:39 Ultimo Hombre wrote: That... seems pretty rubbish actually. Hopefully its not true. will you change your support from team if this is true? because ice3 ,fy and fenrir leaving the team is pretty much confirmed at this point | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
Yeah the loss of fy+ fenrir is kinda a bitch if this rumor is correct. I always thought that the strongest strength of VG was their support duo. On the rumoured LGD roster seems like the strong one. Agressif + Maybe + xz + xiao8 + mmy I don't how good xz is but the other 4 are certainly really good. I think this is some kind of allstar stuff | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On March 07 2016 21:28 goody153 wrote: I'm not a burning fan (nor am I a chinese dota fan) but i thought burning was consistent with his role. Yeah the loss of fy+ fenrir is kinda a bitch if this rumor is correct. I always thought that the strongest strength of VG was their support duo. The rumoured LGD roster seems like the strong one. yea,that new rumored LGD roster is pretty good on paper | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
Who's the best offlaner from the eastern scene ? | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
On March 07 2016 21:33 goody153 wrote: Yeah i can see it as a chinese all-star lineup kinda like Secret 2.0 china version. Man i wish this rumor was true and if the team has good cohesion i can see azarkon sweating. Who's the best offlaner from the eastern scene ? I would say XZ or old eleven in my honest opinion. Luo is pretty shit. 2lei is alright, i guess. Iceiceice, well no comment. So that's left Rotk, old eleven and xz. Which I believe Old eleven or xz is the best offlaner of the scene. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
On March 07 2016 21:38 goody153 wrote: Oh boy the chinese offlaner pool is small if ROTK made it to the list. I might think Sala can play it seeing that his a 8k mmr player from china. | ||
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LennX
4553 Posts
On March 07 2016 21:38 goody153 wrote: Oh boy the chinese offlaner pool is small if ROTK made it to the list. he is China best offlaner... which aint saying a lot lol | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
On March 07 2016 21:23 Kamisamanachi wrote: will you change your support from team if this is true? because ice3 ,fy and fenrir leaving the team is pretty much confirmed at this point Yeah, ill prolly switch to VG.P so I dont need to change flairs :D VG without fy/fenrir is just weird. Its also weird considering theyve always been a strong point of VG all the way back to when the team was formed with ZSMJ, sydm etc. Maybe they just want to get away from each other after playing together for so long. The new Ehome and LGD lineups look great on paper though. | ||
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lolnoty
United States7166 Posts
This makes me wonder if Fy felt the same way when they told him he would have these 3 cores to work with and he refused, and they offered him VG.P with a fresh lineup instead. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
At least Ehome seems balanced. And LGD looks like a fucking all-star if it works out well they should challenge Secret and other championship contending teams. | ||
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qqMagnuz
44 Posts
On March 07 2016 21:23 Kamisamanachi wrote: will you change your support from team if this is true? because ice3 ,fy and fenrir leaving the team is pretty much confirmed at this point Confirmed by a rumor on reddit? Lol. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
it's a rumor on sgamer ,not reddit..reddit is never a source for any rumor related to chinese scene.it is sgamer where things like these gets posted and these things are said by old eleven in his stream and i never said this is confirmed. "if" and "pretty much" are the words i included for that . On March 07 2016 22:28 Ultimo Hombre wrote: Yeah, ill prolly switch to VG.P so I dont need to change flairs :D VG without fy/fenrir is just weird. Its also weird considering theyve always been a strong point of VG all the way back to when the team was formed with ZSMJ, sydm etc. Maybe they just want to get away from each other after playing together for so long. The new Ehome and LGD lineups look great on paper though. VG.P shuffle rumor is pretty interesting one .have to agree with that one | ||
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qqMagnuz
44 Posts
On March 07 2016 22:57 Kamisamanachi wrote: it's a rumor on sgamer ,not reddit..reddit is never a source for any rumor related to chinese scene.it is sgamer where things like these gets posted and these things are said by old eleven in his stream and i never said this is confirmed. "if" and "pretty much" are the words i included for that . VG.P shuffle rumor is pretty interesting one .have to agree with that one A rumor on sgamer, so it must surely be true. Pretty much confirmed by you. My god now I remember why I don't venture these forums anymore. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On March 07 2016 23:37 qqMagnuz wrote: A rumor on sgamer, so it must surely be true. Pretty much confirmed by you. My god now I remember why I don't venture these forums anymore. my god,why do u even venture on these forums ? where did i say that it is confirmed? do u have any reading problem or a problem in comprehending the word rumor? i said it a rumor and not confirmed and it is also said by old eleven on his stream..u can now continue to go away from this forum. | ||
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qqMagnuz
44 Posts
On March 07 2016 21:23 Kamisamanachi wrote: will you change your support from team if this is true? because ice3 ,fy and fenrir leaving the team is pretty much confirmed at this point | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
"pretty much"? and that's because those things were said by a player named "old eleven" on his stream? what is wrong in saying that rumors claimed by old eleven are pretty much confirmed and not completely confirmed? or u have some new insider information on chinese scene to tell?  OK,the thing is not completely confirmed until any player say so on weibo or registers on valve website. :D | ||
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
The source on the transfers are chinese pros speaking on their streams and their weibo posts, posted onto sgamers. Yes, nothing is confirmed, but it's not all hot air either. Sylar out of LGD for example is pretty much confirmed, he already made a post on it, same for things like LGD-CDEC merge etc. Why be a cock when you know nothing? | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
This guy is rumored to be the support player for VG.his name is snake ,a 17 year old chinese pubstar. no confirmation,just rumor | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
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Azimuth
231 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
On March 12 2016 00:02 ref4 wrote: Not sure if putting the young pubstars as support is the best idea.....usually you want the older, more experienced players as position 4 & 5 and let the young'ins play as the cores Well that worked for EG with SADBOYS (ppd and zai being new and fear+universe as the old player being core) as well as NTH(alliance) with envy as support(before he got kicked for EGM which if i'm right is also new too) iirc fy was also new when he started as support and though that took time but they placed 2nd in TI4. | ||
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RandyL
Australia148 Posts
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BoesFX
1451 Posts
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3474 Posts
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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RandyL
Australia148 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On April 06 2016 10:53 shouldbeworking wrote: Its funny/sad how everyone's sentiment is BGod is washed up. Which is probably true. Poor guy went from one of the best carries who can't win a TI to a carry where you can't win a TI with. Doesn't help that he is on some friendship power team. which is not the case, i think.Just because few plebs on reddit thinks that doesn't make it truth. And if anything ,VG has more problems on the positions other than their mid and carry.. They basically took risk of picking 2 young support players with no prior big experience of playing together as their support pair , and the risk is backfiring at them ,Atm..If u have watched any of their games, then one thing u should know that their support rotations are pretty much negligible to none.They usually have no idea what they are doing until some big fight happens where they can create chaos. At this point, either rotk should give up his offlane to one of the support ,mostly jdh and start supporting with hym just to set the tone for early movement. most of their games ends up either burning carrying them or cty carrying them or both | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On April 06 2016 11:51 Kamisamanachi wrote: which is not the case, i think.Just because few plebs on reddit thinks that doesn't make it truth. And if anything ,VG has more problems on the positions other than their mid and carry.. They basically took risk of picking 2 young support players with no prior big experience of playing together as their support pair , and the risk is backfiring at them ,Atm..If u have watched any of their games, then one thing u should know that their support rotations are pretty much negligible to none.They usually have no idea what they are doing until some big fight happens where they can create chaos. At this point, either rotk should give up his offlane to one of the support ,mostly jdh and start supporting with hym just to set the tone for early movement. most of their games ends up either burning carrying them or cty carrying them or both I'm one of those who didn't really doubt about burning but honestly he isn't the best anymore, it has been in awhile. I think burning is flexbile and still doable but he's far from the best carries for a long time now, this isn't just because he's not with the best teams but he's just not better than say miracle and rtz in a lot of aspects and very obvious differences. Regardless we know that individual skill doesn't have to be the measure of how good the team is, team synergy + drafting can compensate. The 1 position and 2 pos are the flexible ones i think. CTY is really good so no problem with him, burning is no problem even if he isn't the best anymore what they need is the backbone to function well and also the drafts. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
The problem lies with rotk and the 2 supports. Rotk is tasked with drafting and hasn't been great with it. His offlane play is also mediocre, though it can also be attributed to bad drafts. The 2 supports has so much work to do, but they are unproven. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
I think burning's worst hero has been razor, holy shit do not make the dude play razor | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On April 06 2016 19:52 goody153 wrote: Yeah burning isn't the problem of the roster or at least isn't the rosters problem. It's the support-offlane that has to work. I think burning's worst hero has been razor, holy shit do not make the dude play razor lmao yea...his razor is pretty bad.. seriously tho, the risk of picking 2 new amateur support players is backfiring them bigtime. either one of their 2 supports just farms randomly in jungle early game and other one tries to be active but somehow both of their support have lowest networth in the game. In many games , they just don't do anything. Random smokes, multiple failed ganks ruins the early game for them and then they just rely on either burning or cty to carry them late game. The only time where the supports seems to know what they are doing is during big fights. I am pretty sure, they need to decide which support is getting farm priority because atm , they both look like 2 ppds. or rotk should become support and give offlane to one of the support which worked for them in one of the games yesterday | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
On April 07 2016 03:51 Azarkon wrote: According to Reddit, didn't ROTK say he'll quit Dota in case he loses to Swindlemelonzz again? Unfortunately, it looks as though they won't even meet again. This technically means he doesn't have to retire | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On April 07 2016 18:22 TomatoBisque wrote: This technically means he doesn't have to retire That has been the joke in the chinese community ever since rotk made that statement | ||
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CxWiLL
China830 Posts
On April 07 2016 22:28 Kamisamanachi wrote: Sylar is joining VG, most probably..So,If this is true they are definately giving up their chances of qualifier or direct invites for both TI and major. Rotk said on his stream that he is going to position 4 with hym as his other support.. Sylar will play carry, CTY plays mid and BurNing plays offlane ..sylar also hinted this in chinese interview and updated his weibo status and everyone in chinese forums are talking about this. Hope this can bring some chemistry to the team. Sylar is a really good player. Glad to see some change happening, the current VG roster now won't go anywhere. | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
Might work if everyone discovers their youth. | ||
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
On April 07 2016 22:59 uriel- wrote: That has been the joke in the chinese community ever since rotk made that statement based China | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
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Atoissen
Norway1737 Posts
And, was not Zyf rated as the biggest carry talent in China for quite some time, and kinda still is? I guess im just wondering why they have some of theier best players overall in the "second" team... I dont watch all games of VG or Reborn, but from my perspective this would be a stronger first team: 1. Zyf / Sylar 2. Cty 3. Yang 4. Fy 5. ddc Experienced supports, and a good #5 in ddc. Weakest link prolly yang... but I still think his plays are better then rotk. Might put rotk back for yang if u need rotk to draft, and he prolly has a much better mindset at a lan. | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
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lolnoty
United States7166 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
On April 08 2016 19:29 Atoissen wrote: Whats the story about Fy going to VG Reborn? And, was not Zyf rated as the biggest carry talent in China for quite some time, and kinda still is? I guess im just wondering why they have some of theier best players overall in the "second" team... I dont watch all games of VG or Reborn, but from my perspective this would be a stronger first team: 1. Zyf / Sylar 2. Cty 3. Yang 4. Fy 5. ddc Experienced supports, and a good #5 in ddc. Weakest link prolly yang... but I still think his plays are better then rotk. Might put rotk back for yang if u need rotk to draft, and he prolly has a much better mindset at a lan. You prolly want to replace Yang or ddc with ROTK. ROTK is more valuable with solid captain/drafter and even if FY does the captaining having a secondary shotcaller is always good. but it doesn't matter VG is in a really weird spot atm. I have no faith in the current roster even with the addition of Sylar. It's weird. As for VG.R we have to wait and see | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On April 09 2016 04:07 goody153 wrote: You prolly want to replace Yang or ddc with ROTK. ROTK is more valuable with solid captain/drafter and even if FY does the captaining having a secondary shotcaller is always good. but it doesn't matter VG is in a really weird spot atm. I have no faith in the current roster even with the addition of Sylar. It's weird. As for VG.R we have to wait and see Not to mention Sylar and RotK are pretty much a packaged deal. Sylar originally left VG after TI4 when RotK retired. My personal feelings are to leave VG.R alone. They're messy, but they've shone some potential. VG can keep shuffling until they can get something right. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On April 09 2016 04:05 lolnoty wrote: fy is smart, and knew to get out as soon as burning/cty/rotk was pitched as his new squad. I don't see burning/cty/sylar doing much better. he wasn't smart and this isn't matter of smartness..VG wanted to build team around burning and fy wanted to build his own team . so they built 2 teams around them . and noone sees a team with 3 carry players doing much better than approriate roles, but change was inevitable for VG as their team with 2 new supports with no experience wasn't going to work even in long term with the way they were playing . i am pretty sure that this new roster atleast looks better than previous one on paper .. In the case of VG.R, they are winning most games in general ,but they just failed in crucial moments to qualify for 2 international tournaments and their main problem seems to be late game shotcalling which is a mess for them.. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
V G R V G R V G R we need vgr flairs por favor! | ||
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
a little off topic for a VG thread, but i'm really happy that ayesee is back and better than ever. so in other words, many different things coming together to make VGR's tournament extra memorable this time around. hopefully more to come. | ||
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shouldbeworking
946 Posts
Mikasa's experience must have influenced VG.R's play somewhat and that shouldn't be overlooked. Amazing how they just put him mid, which is usually the lane you put your most talented player. | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
Why Cty doesn't move somewhere else? I mean, both squads of iG, CDEC, plus Duobao with Newbee.Y looks bettlr than being captained to death by thrOwtk. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On April 21 2016 19:53 ForTehDarkseid wrote: Losing two games in a row to FTD B and Braveheart should be unacceptable for any experienced team. Why Cty doesn't move somewhere else? I mean, both squads of iG, CDEC, plus Duobao with Newbee.Y looks bettlr than being captained to death by thrOwtk. Same can be said about most of these Chinese teams including LGD too..their series yesterday against LGD was pretty close with high chances of going in favour of VG. And If u see their recent games, they are trying different picks. In 3 out of 4 games they played today they picked wisp , a hero they didn't play till now and his play was pretty bad. Their first series had a player named 121as a stand-in instead of burning too .LGD lost to the likes of thunderrobot gaming a week ago in the same h cup..does that mean that aggreasif should abandon xiao8? I mean almost all of the teams are treating these h cup games as scrims like games. | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
On April 22 2016 02:19 Kamisamanachi wrote: Same can be said about most of these Chinese teams including LGD too. There is a land of difference between other premier teams and Vici and that land is called Major's Open Qualifiers. They have only a week left. LGD lost to the likes of thunderrobot gaming a week ago in the same h cup..does that mean that aggreasif should abandon xiao8? I mean almost all of the teams are treating these h cup games as scrims like games. To be fair, the only teams LGD lost 0-2 were iG, VG-R and CDEC.Y. That was with xiao8 transitioning after the 6 months break. The worse players on Vici currently by far are rOtk and Sylar, who both were active in a same team before the shuffle, they haven't lost a single game because of BurNing's role swap or hym's inexperience. | ||
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Fivlover_
Indonesia5 Posts
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On May 04 2016 01:09 Thetwinmasters wrote: burning and rotk are such useless players Yes, bad thing BurNing cant manfight enemy team at 30 mins with lich. That could have compensated for bad shotcalling in their lost game, am I right? As much as I hate commenting on these random BurNing hate comments nowadays, I think he played pretty decent at the most as a support for them till now. His venge and lion have been pretty solid in most of their games. I don't think their losses today were dependant on individual performances , it was dependant on retarded shot calling mid game whoever that was..atleast 3 out of 4 games they lost , they won early game and then threw away their whole advantage with 1 fight.. If anything ,rotk should give up becoming captain for this team and give everything to cty..he isn't the type of captain he used to be anymore. There isn't seem to be a clear voice in the team which they need . idk if they disband or not, but they can atleast try to change leadership or shot calling | ||
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CxWiLL
China830 Posts
On May 04 2016 01:56 Kamisamanachi wrote: Yes, bad thing BurNing cant manfight enemy team at 30 mins with lich. That could have compensated for bad shotcalling in their lost game, am I right? As much as I hate commenting on these random BurNing hate comments nowadays, I think he played pretty decent at the most as a support for them till now. His venge and lion have been pretty solid in most of their games. I don't think their losses today were dependant on individual performances , it was dependant on retarded shot calling mid game whoever that was..atleast 3 out of 4 games they lost , they won early game and then threw away their whole advantage with 1 fight.. If anything ,rotk should give up becoming captain for this team and give everything to cty..he isn't the type of captain he used to be anymore. There isn't seem to be a clear voice in the team which they need . idk if they disband or not, but they can atleast try to change leadership or shot calling I actually don't know who else can do the shot calling for this team. Burning and Sylar are not vocal person in games. Cty is famous for his retard decision mid game, and Rotk is bad. Maybe they should let the rookie to captain them? damn, I cannot even remember his ID. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On May 04 2016 10:17 CxWiLL wrote: I actually don't know who else can do the shot calling for this team. Burning and Sylar are not vocal person in games. Cty is famous for his retard decision mid game, and Rotk is bad. Maybe they should let the rookie to captain them? damn, I cannot even remember his ID. hym, and yes they should do that .i don't think they will go far with rotk calling shots and being captain..let cty be drafter and hym be shotcaller.the guy has his own playstyle and there is nothing bad in giving him shot | ||
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
On May 04 2016 10:17 CxWiLL wrote: I actually don't know who else can do the shot calling for this team. Burning and Sylar are not vocal person in games. Cty is famous for his retard decision mid game, and Rotk is bad. Maybe they should let the rookie to captain them? damn, I cannot even remember his ID. I think you found the root cause of their issues | ||
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ForTehDarkseid
8139 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On May 04 2016 15:58 ForTehDarkseid wrote: Group A is unfair compared to group B. yea. i also thought about the same..there are 3 strong teams in china in group A in recent memory(yes, IG.v has been pretty good recently and have taken games off top teams),4 if u consider VG kinda good.but then group B consist of all the tier 2 and tier 3 chinese teams to make path easy for newbee and some tier 2 or 3 team.. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
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Atoissen
Norway1737 Posts
On May 04 2016 11:44 uriel- wrote: I think you found the root cause of their issues +1 I tought they kept Rotk because they needed someone to draft and call shots... Im not trying to flame Rotk, but would they keep him for his plays on the offlane?? I dont get that... Edit: Just for the record, I am not saying I think Rotk is a good shot caller, I actually dont got enough intel to say much about it, I just dont think his offlane play has been very inspiring and stable for the last year. | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On May 04 2016 20:21 TanGeng wrote: CTY is better now on the late gaming; the decisions to farm or to fight is terrible. Yea, he has improved soo much from his status of 6 minutes god.his mid game plays have also improved a ton , but one thing is for sure. his aggressive plays sometimes backfires at him , but thats just due to the nature of the player he is.. as u said, he needs to work on his decision to farm or fight more. i wish they just give calling in game shots to cty.. let rotk be the drafter and let cty call the shots..he already knows how to control the tempo of the game. | ||
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CxWiLL
China830 Posts
They switch roles like crazy. Everyone of them is switching role from game to game, depends on the heroes they picked. No fuck is give to the 1-5 position system, they picked super greedy lineups and the one that finds farm became the core. You will never know how they plan their roles and who is playing it, even after you see through the entire b/p phase. In a most recent game, they pick Timber, naix, bat, enigma and disruptor, which sound like a normal draft, But it is actually a #1 Rotk Timber, #2 Hym Bat, #3 Cty naix, #4 Sylar enigma and #5 Burning disruptor Considering they are doing alright these days. I really hope they can make their way through the qualifiers and bring this awesomeness TI. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
any vods you can link? | ||
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CxWiLL
China830 Posts
On June 15 2016 01:26 LemOn wrote: that sounds mental haha any vods you can link? it was a H-cup game i believe I randomly bumped in to that live stream, Edit: So many online tournaments in the Chinese scene these days. and I can't find the vods either. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
i think it was an opportunity to mess around a bit. sylar still typically plays carry in officials, but in this game he was an enigma, looking like he came from jungle. | ||
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neozxa
Indonesia545 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
On June 15 2016 01:33 CxWiLL wrote: it was a H-cup game i believe I randomly bumped in to that live stream, Edit: So many online tournaments in the Chinese scene these days. and I can't find the vods either. Kinda gives hope for the Chinese Scene for TI6 actually! It almost seems the roles have reversed and the top Western teams play way less smaller online tournaments + qualifiers and China is getting a lot more practice. Newbee is already pretty much on par with Liquid/OG after a few tweaks and there's a lot of up and comers while teams like EG and Secret are getting shat on with their direct invite, high travel + low competitive practice schedules. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On June 15 2016 01:18 CxWiLL wrote: Even though their results are still shaky, the old VG is on a completely next level of dota these day. They switch roles like crazy. Everyone of them is switching role from game to game, depends on the heroes they picked. No fuck is give to the 1-5 position system, they picked super greedy lineups and the one that finds farm became the core. You will never know how they plan their roles and who is playing it, even after you see through the entire b/p phase. In a most recent game, they pick Timber, naix, bat, enigma and disruptor, which sound like a normal draft, But it is actually a #1 Rotk Timber, #2 Hym Bat, #3 Cty naix, #4 Sylar enigma and #5 Burning disruptor Considering they are doing alright these days. I really hope they can make their way through the qualifiers and bring this awesomeness TI. i think h cup is just a chance for these teams to practice whatever they like as noone gonna play serious and pick their important strats with qualifier a week away,, but that game in particular was really funny and they almost won with those heroes too.. right now, it feels like the effect of their support duo playing lots of pubs together is showing as they seem more cohesive and intact during games. it's just that they need to work on their decisions. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
But heartbreakingly knocked out Burning and co. from the qualifier, farewell sweet prince | ||
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maze.
Germany1392 Posts
Rotk retired and Sylar will take a break until after TI6. Cty might be on a break, not clear at the moment. | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On June 30 2016 18:16 maze. wrote: Xyclops on VG: Rotk retired and Sylar will take a break until after TI6. Cty might be on a break, not clear at the moment. I wonder what Burning will do. It's sad, VG classic showed a lot of improvement. But I can understand after such a crushing loss some need to step away for a bit. | ||
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maze.
Germany1392 Posts
On June 30 2016 19:54 the bear jew wrote: I wonder what Burning will do. It's sad, VG classic showed a lot of improvement. But I can understand after such a crushing loss some need to step away for a bit. They are playing with ayo and jixing from vg.p in nanyang atm. Cty was just missing for the first game. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
Sylar, CTY, FY,Fenrir, rotk it's basically VG's TI4 lineup+CTY no news on changes in VG | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:26 Kamisamanachi wrote: New VG.J lineup (rumored from their fan club which knows many things internal) Sylar, CTY, FY,Fenrir, rotk it's basically VG's TI4 lineup+CTY no news on changes in VG Didn't sylar and rotk have some argument then? About mistakes or something? | ||
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maze.
Germany1392 Posts
On December 25 2016 23:18 DucK- wrote: Didn't sylar and rotk have some argument then? About mistakes or something? Sylar and rotk were flaming each other on their streams, but nothing too serious. Wonder where hym is going? He was the next big thing in the support role. | ||
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
On December 26 2016 01:06 maze. wrote: Sylar and rotk were flaming each other on their streams, but nothing too serious. Wonder where hym is going? He was the next big thing in the support role. most probably promoted to main VG squad | ||
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
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Kamisamanachi
4665 Posts
VG.J:- freeze(previously on ehome.L), aggressif, rOtk, fy , fenrir VG:- ghost, END,Yang, DDC,hym Source:- http://fight.pcgames.com.cn/655/6553852.html | ||
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
Is he the final form of iceiceice and iceice? Let's find out, if they don't pick tide for rotk | ||
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Piledriver
United States1697 Posts
I hope he sticks around and makes it to the next years majors and TI. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On June 30 2017 02:12 Piledriver wrote: WTH happened to VG.J . I believed any team with Agressif + Fy + Fenrir should be easy tier 1. Has fy-God really fallen off that much? I hope he sticks around and makes it to the next years majors and TI. Not likely that they'll stay together but i also expected them to do well, they even have ROTK . The dude usually manages to make his team matter when needed and he even has the players to back up with talent this time but too bad it didn't happen | ||
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