EPTOn May 02 2015 22:18 TRAP[yoo] wrote:
i cant remember one game in which hao played invoker
i cant remember one game in which hao played invoker
I remember one game against DK last year before TI4 where Hao was on Invoker
Vici Gaming Discussion - Page 27
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
I remember one game against DK last year before TI4 where Hao was on Invoker | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
The xp/bounty changes help teams that excel in the early-mid game close them out, and VG is one of those teams. There were tons of cases in the past where VG gets a 5-10k advantage in the first 20 minutes but then gets wiped in a major team fight playing over aggressive, and allows the other team back in. With the rubber band effect decreased, and farming creeps/split pushing less lucrative than before, the meta is exactly where VG wants it to be. On the side of balance changes, it's again a huge patch for them. Just about all of Super's signature heroes got buffed, including the DK & Alchemist that used to be his bread-and-butter, and the Pugna that he used to run in VG's deathball push strats. Icex3's Timber got buffed, his Invoker got buffed, his Prophet got buffed, his off-lane Morph got buffed, and with PL becoming one of the premier 6.84 carries, being able to play it both off-lane and safe-lane is a boon. For Hao, his Naix got buffed, his Gyro got buffed, his PL is now one of the best carry picks, and I imagine he isn't bad with Slark with the way he plays so, the only downside for him is that LD, a hero he's bad on, got buffed, but that's just one hero and Icex3 ought to be able to pick it up. On the support side, VG's signature dual roam is of even greater potence than before. Fy plays NP and 4 Alchemist, I believe Fenrir plays Chen, and I don't see Enchantress being difficult for them to pick up. The only jungle hero that's capable of giving them trouble in b/p this patch is Enigma, which I don't think VG plays very well. Still, that's another one off hero that's easily banned out vs. the best Enigma teams. The only worry VG ought to have for this patch is how not to out-draft themselves, because the weakness of overly versatile teams is that they no longer understand their own game due to cognitive overload. In a way, teams eg TI 4 Newbee, which had a simple way of drafting and knew exactly what to do with those drafts, are safer at TIs because they never outsmart themselves. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
But their biggest weakness, in practice, is their drafts, so even though in theory VG is 1st/2nd world in raw talent, they still stumble vs. great drafters eg PPD. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
That overconfidence in their drafts and abilities is both a strength and a weakness and can set them up to be outdrafted. | ||
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
On May 05 2015 02:37 Azarkon wrote: The only jungle hero that's capable of giving them trouble in b/p this patch is Enigma, which I don't think VG plays very well. Still, that's another one off hero that's easily banned out vs. the best Enigma teams. Doesn't iceiceice play a pretty good offlane Enigma? Even if it's not in the jungle (they can't use him as part of a greedy draft), it still gives them the tools to deal with Enigma during the drafting. | ||
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Nagamundo
131 Posts
On May 05 2015 09:46 syw651 wrote: Doesn't iceiceice play a pretty good offlane Enigma? Even if it's not in the jungle (they can't use him as part of a greedy draft), it still gives them the tools to deal with Enigma during the drafting. I believe I also saw Fy play a pretty good jungle Enigma recently. | ||
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shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
On May 05 2015 02:37 Azarkon wrote: The only jungle hero that's capable of giving them trouble in b/p this patch is Enigma, which I don't think VG plays very well. Still, that's another one off hero that's easily banned out vs. the best Enigma teams. Both iceiceice and Fy plays a good offlane. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
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Azimuth
231 Posts
 This reminded me of TI4 and DAC finals where they didn't just lose but lose convincingly without any clear idea on how to adjust. | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
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Thetwinmasters
3578 Posts
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Azimuth
231 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:53 Thetwinmasters wrote: super is actually the most inconsistent player i seen this is true but what I dislike most about him is that against good teams he rarely if ever "carries" the team like Hao and iceiceice do a lot of times, his individual skill is good but not great. When VG announced they're bringing in Hao I really hoped Mu would also come but Super's been too long in VG for them to kick him out and I doubt Newbee owner would let Mu go after Xiao8 and Hao left. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:53 Thetwinmasters wrote: super is actually the most inconsistent player i seen Super is actually damn consistent.....at being inconsistent :D | ||
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Ultimo Hombre
Australia1436 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:57 Azimuth wrote: this is true but what I dislike most about him is that against good teams he rarely if ever "carries" the team like Hao and iceiceice do a lot of times, his individual skill is good but not great. When VG announced they're bringing in Hao I really hoped Mu would also come but Super's been too long in VG for them to kick him out and I doubt Newbee owner would let Mu go after Xiao8 and Hao left. Dont be so reactionary, Super has 'carried' VG more times than fy has post TI4. | ||
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Rix
Singapore39 Posts
Finally, Empire played very well, especially their supports. It's a shame we probably won't see a rematch till TI5. | ||
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RiZu
Singapore5715 Posts
On May 11 2015 16:42 Rix wrote: I feel like VG had some drafting issues - they drafted too greedily against Empire, a team which was able to punish their greed very heavily. Maybe it's because they're experimenting with the new patch, who knows. I also got the sense that VG didn't take the games that seriously (they looked kinda bored in the playercam), whereas Empire prepared substantially for the grand finals. Finally, Empire played very well, especially their supports. It's a shame we probably won't see a rematch till TI5. they are definitely experimenting, at the end of the day, the patch itself will be played on TI5. I gotta admit that VG got caught off guard pretty badly. It pretty crazy how much confidence Empire played with and the willingness to just rush in your face is pretty hard to deal with. All in all, knowing fy he will figure thing out eventually after a tough defeat from DAC/ D2CL. Their win streaks is overhyped as it carried over from the last patch and had only played tier 2 chinese teams so far outside of Newbee. I think there might be a chance Empire will get invited to MarsTV but man I am sure they will invite Na'Vi instead as usual just for the fame. | ||
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Azimuth
231 Posts
On May 11 2015 16:35 Ultimo Hombre wrote: Dont be so reactionary, Super has 'carried' VG more times than fy has post TI4. Don't get me wrong, just because they lost a final doesn't mean I want them to have roster changes. That'd be insane. I do however hope that he becomes more consistent and that his favorite heroes become the new flavor of the month because otherwise he'll struggle big time. | ||
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HighTimeDotA
Canada1412 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:57 Azimuth wrote: this is true but what I dislike most about him is that against good teams he rarely if ever "carries" the team like Hao and iceiceice do a lot of times, his individual skill is good but not great. When VG announced they're bringing in Hao I really hoped Mu would also come but Super's been too long in VG for them to kick him out and I doubt Newbee owner would let Mu go after Xiao8 and Hao left. mu and hao combo costs too much. super is a very agro mid player which fits vgs style. the unsung hero of vg. | ||
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syw651
Australia349 Posts
On May 11 2015 16:42 Rix wrote: I feel like VG had some drafting issues - they drafted too greedily against Empire, a team which was able to punish their greed very heavily. Maybe it's because they're experimenting with the new patch, who knows. I also got the sense that VG didn't take the games that seriously (they looked kinda bored in the playercam), whereas Empire prepared substantially for the grand finals. Finally, Empire played very well, especially their supports. It's a shame we probably won't see a rematch till TI5. I haven't watched all the games against tier 2 teams since the patch, but the ones I did watch make me feel it isn't so much a drafting issue but that they aren't drafting properly at all. In my mind I'm imagining iceiceice sitting behind Fy going "did you see the new aghs on morph/nyx/alch? Let's give that a shot" | ||
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