On August 05 2015 14:11 DucK- wrote: I remember Goody going all about how C9's gonna do well etc in the Navi thread. Sad that Navi didn't do better though :\ I'd say though that Navi could leave TI5 with their heads held high, whereas C9 should just crumble in shame.
C9 didn't look like C9 at all. Zero identity.
It's true that whereas C9 had the potential to do something big in this tournament, navi was destined to end in last place. In that sense C9 certainly has lost more, although obviously navi are the bigger losers.
Yea in the grand scheme of things, C9 still gets more money. I don't agree that navi was destined to be last place though. They had showed that with a little bit more finesse and luck, getting top 8 wouldn't be a surprise. Guess they used up all their luck in the past 4 TIs.
C9? Where were they. I didn't see them at all in TI5.
On August 05 2015 14:11 DucK- wrote: I remember Goody going all about how C9's gonna do well etc in the Navi thread. Sad that Navi didn't do better though :\ I'd say though that Navi could leave TI5 with their heads held high, whereas C9 should just crumble in shame.
C9 didn't look like C9 at all. Zero identity.
It's true that whereas C9 had the potential to do something big in this tournament, navi was destined to end in last place. In that sense C9 certainly has lost more, although obviously navi are the bigger losers.
Yea in the grand scheme of things, C9 still gets more money. I don't agree that navi was destined to be last place though. They had showed that with a little bit more finesse and luck, getting top 8 wouldn't be a surprise. Guess they used up all their luck in the past 4 TIs.
C9? Where were they. I didn't see them at all in TI5.
of course you won't they started after TI3 lol obviously they won't place anywhere if the roster just started 2 years ago lol
On August 05 2015 14:11 DucK- wrote: I remember Goody going all about how C9's gonna do well etc in the Navi thread. Sad that Navi didn't do better though :\ I'd say though that Navi could leave TI5 with their heads held high, whereas C9 should just crumble in shame.
C9 didn't look like C9 at all. Zero identity.
It's true that whereas C9 had the potential to do something big in this tournament, navi was destined to end in last place. In that sense C9 certainly has lost more, although obviously navi are the bigger losers.
Yea in the grand scheme of things, C9 still gets more money. I don't agree that navi was destined to be last place though. They had showed that with a little bit more finesse and luck, getting top 8 wouldn't be a surprise. Guess they used up all their luck in the past 4 TIs.
C9? Where were they. I didn't see them at all in TI5.
of course you won't they started after TI3 lol
Think you misunderstood my sarcastic last comment :S
On August 05 2015 14:11 DucK- wrote: I remember Goody going all about how C9's gonna do well etc in the Navi thread. Sad that Navi didn't do better though :\ I'd say though that Navi could leave TI5 with their heads held high, whereas C9 should just crumble in shame.
C9 didn't look like C9 at all. Zero identity.
It's true that whereas C9 had the potential to do something big in this tournament, navi was destined to end in last place. In that sense C9 certainly has lost more, although obviously navi are the bigger losers.
Yea in the grand scheme of things, C9 still gets more money. I don't agree that navi was destined to be last place though. They had showed that with a little bit more finesse and luck, getting top 8 wouldn't be a surprise. Guess they used up all their luck in the past 4 TIs.
C9? Where were they. I didn't see them at all in TI5.
of course you won't they started after TI3 lol
Think you misunderstood my sarcastic last comment :S
On August 05 2015 14:11 DucK- wrote: I remember Goody going all about how C9's gonna do well etc in the Navi thread. Sad that Navi didn't do better though :\ I'd say though that Navi could leave TI5 with their heads held high, whereas C9 should just crumble in shame.
C9 didn't look like C9 at all. Zero identity.
It's true that whereas C9 had the potential to do something big in this tournament, navi was destined to end in last place. In that sense C9 certainly has lost more, although obviously navi are the bigger losers.
Yea in the grand scheme of things, C9 still gets more money. I don't agree that navi was destined to be last place though. They had showed that with a little bit more finesse and luck, getting top 8 wouldn't be a surprise. Guess they used up all their luck in the past 4 TIs.
C9? Where were they. I didn't see them at all in TI5.
Isn't the past identity of the team just the drow-visage draft? ^^
On August 05 2015 14:11 DucK- wrote: I remember Goody going all about how C9's gonna do well etc in the Navi thread. Sad that Navi didn't do better though :\ I'd say though that Navi could leave TI5 with their heads held high, whereas C9 should just crumble in shame.
C9 didn't look like C9 at all. Zero identity.
It's true that whereas C9 had the potential to do something big in this tournament, navi was destined to end in last place. In that sense C9 certainly has lost more, although obviously navi are the bigger losers.
Yea in the grand scheme of things, C9 still gets more money. I don't agree that navi was destined to be last place though. They had showed that with a little bit more finesse and luck, getting top 8 wouldn't be a surprise. Guess they used up all their luck in the past 4 TIs.
C9? Where were they. I didn't see them at all in TI5.
Isn't the past identity of the team just the drow-visage draft? ^^
Nah. It was envy farming in dangerous positions, bone7 and pld creating space for aui, and sing doing sing things. They used the map very well, and played greedy. Lots of split push, the #4 getting farmed etc.
I think the misfit in this team is notail actually. Their supports are often underfarmed, and while misery makes plays, notail does nothing. It is not that he is bad, it just isn't a good fit. They really miss Aui.
On August 05 2015 14:11 DucK- wrote: I remember Goody going all about how C9's gonna do well etc in the Navi thread. Sad that Navi didn't do better though :\ I'd say though that Navi could leave TI5 with their heads held high, whereas C9 should just crumble in shame.
C9 didn't look like C9 at all. Zero identity.
It's true that whereas C9 had the potential to do something big in this tournament, navi was destined to end in last place. In that sense C9 certainly has lost more, although obviously navi are the bigger losers.
Yea in the grand scheme of things, C9 still gets more money. I don't agree that navi was destined to be last place though. They had showed that with a little bit more finesse and luck, getting top 8 wouldn't be a surprise. Guess they used up all their luck in the past 4 TIs.
C9? Where were they. I didn't see them at all in TI5.
Isn't the past identity of the team just the drow-visage draft? ^^
Nah. It was envy farming in dangerous positions, bone7 and pld creating space for aui, and sing doing sing things. They used the map very well, and played greedy. Lots of split push, the #4 getting farmed etc.
I think the misfit in this team is notail actually. Their supports are often underfarmed, and while misery makes plays, notail does nothing. It is not that he is bad, it just isn't a good fit. They really miss Aui.
mlg c9 best c9 .. although post TI4 and TI4 c9 are the most entertaining and unique
Dramatically miss Aui. Post Ti4 C9 was pretty awesome. I think Fata though shows his age compared to new T1 mids and their versatility. Genreally, it feels like hero pools are a large constraint on drafting for c9 (more so than other teams).
I think Fata was an upgrade but Misery and NoTail might be too normal in the end.
On August 05 2015 14:37 Sabu113 wrote: Dramatically miss Aui. Post Ti4 C9 was pretty awesome. I think Fata though shows his age compared to new T1 mids and their versatility. Genreally, it feels like hero pools are a large constraint on drafting for c9 (more so than other teams).
I think Fata was an upgrade but Misery and NoTail might be too normal in the end.
as much as i like that c9
i think pie isn't better than misery .. although notail is hit or miss while aui isn't the best of 4 positions compared to FY or old-EG zai he was still really good that he provided stability for c9 needed
You can't compare aui with other #4 because he is just in another category of his own. Zai was the closest to him, and Zai was definitely superior to Aui, but not by a lot.
This current c9 feels like they are playing with 2 #5.
On August 05 2015 14:37 Sabu113 wrote: Dramatically miss Aui. Post Ti4 C9 was pretty awesome. I think Fata though shows his age compared to new T1 mids and their versatility. Genreally, it feels like hero pools are a large constraint on drafting for c9 (more so than other teams).
I think Fata was an upgrade but Misery and NoTail might be too normal in the end.
as much as i like that c9
i think pie isn't better than misery .. although notail is hit or miss while aui isn't the best of 4 positions compared to FY or old-EG zai he was still really good that he provided stability for c9
it was like PPD said in a postgame interview once. Aui did so much work for C9 and he was almost always an ace in the hole player. Aui had several heroes that were just top tier and you needed to respect. PLD and notail are a wash imo. Misery is probably more consistent but I feel that PLD contributed a lot in terms of understanding the game and the meta. He often fed and played like ass, but he did a lot of little things that were huge in the grand scheme of things
On August 05 2015 14:11 DucK- wrote: I remember Goody going all about how C9's gonna do well etc in the Navi thread. Sad that Navi didn't do better though :\ I'd say though that Navi could leave TI5 with their heads held high, whereas C9 should just crumble in shame.
C9 didn't look like C9 at all. Zero identity.
It's true that whereas C9 had the potential to do something big in this tournament, navi was destined to end in last place. In that sense C9 certainly has lost more, although obviously navi are the bigger losers.
Yea in the grand scheme of things, C9 still gets more money. I don't agree that navi was destined to be last place though. They had showed that with a little bit more finesse and luck, getting top 8 wouldn't be a surprise. Guess they used up all their luck in the past 4 TIs.
C9? Where were they. I didn't see them at all in TI5.
Isn't the past identity of the team just the drow-visage draft? ^^
Nah. It was envy farming in dangerous positions, bone7 and pld creating space for aui, and sing doing sing things. They used the map very well, and played greedy. Lots of split push, the #4 getting farmed etc.
I think the misfit in this team is notail actually. Their supports are often underfarmed, and while misery makes plays, notail does nothing. It is not that he is bad, it just isn't a good fit. They really miss Aui.
It was also crazy non-consensus drafts with a lot of pocket heroes (meepo or mirana pre-buffs for instance) along with a lot of playstyles/meta breaking trends (bone's offlane builds were copied by the whole proscene back in the day; his bat/clock were actually good; Chinese commentators were marveling at his clock at TI4 lol)
On August 05 2015 14:44 DucK- wrote: You can't compare aui with other #4 because he is just in another category of his own. Zai was the closest to him, and Zai was definitely superior to Aui, but not by a lot.
This current c9 feels like they are playing with 2 #5.
You mean 3 cause bone7 has felt like another 5 position player.
Aui does spend a lot of time farming more than babysitting or fighting but i've seen him play like aggressive(all his ti4 skywrath) so he is not really that different from the other 4's
On August 05 2015 14:11 DucK- wrote: I remember Goody going all about how C9's gonna do well etc in the Navi thread. Sad that Navi didn't do better though :\ I'd say though that Navi could leave TI5 with their heads held high, whereas C9 should just crumble in shame.
C9 didn't look like C9 at all. Zero identity.
It's true that whereas C9 had the potential to do something big in this tournament, navi was destined to end in last place. In that sense C9 certainly has lost more, although obviously navi are the bigger losers.
Yea in the grand scheme of things, C9 still gets more money. I don't agree that navi was destined to be last place though. They had showed that with a little bit more finesse and luck, getting top 8 wouldn't be a surprise. Guess they used up all their luck in the past 4 TIs.
C9? Where were they. I didn't see them at all in TI5.
Isn't the past identity of the team just the drow-visage draft? ^^
Nah. It was envy farming in dangerous positions, bone7 and pld creating space for aui, and sing doing sing things. They used the map very well, and played greedy. Lots of split push, the #4 getting farmed etc.
I think the misfit in this team is notail actually. Their supports are often underfarmed, and while misery makes plays, notail does nothing. It is not that he is bad, it just isn't a good fit. They really miss Aui.
It was also crazy non-consensus drafts with a lot of pocket heroes (meepo or mirana pre-buffs for instance) along with a lot of playstyles/meta breaking trends (bone's offlane builds were copied by the whole proscene back in the day; his bat/clock were actually good; Chinese commentators were marveling at his clock at TI4 lol)
ugh this topic just makes me annoyed
You mean frustrated and sad ? lol don't worry it's not just you
That was when envy started drafting for the team again and they had alot of pretty innovative drafts and playstyle introduction that got played by other teams multiple times better lol like the drow shit is one of them
On August 05 2015 14:44 DucK- wrote: You can't compare aui with other #4 because he is just in another category of his own. Zai was the closest to him, and Zai was definitely superior to Aui, but not by a lot.
This current c9 feels like they are playing with 2 #5.
You mean 3 cause bone7 has felt like another 5 position player.
Aui does spend a lot of time farming more than babysitting or fighting but i've seen him play like aggressive(all his ti4 skywrath) so he is not really that different from the other 4's
On August 05 2015 14:11 DucK- wrote: I remember Goody going all about how C9's gonna do well etc in the Navi thread. Sad that Navi didn't do better though :\ I'd say though that Navi could leave TI5 with their heads held high, whereas C9 should just crumble in shame.
C9 didn't look like C9 at all. Zero identity.
It's true that whereas C9 had the potential to do something big in this tournament, navi was destined to end in last place. In that sense C9 certainly has lost more, although obviously navi are the bigger losers.
Yea in the grand scheme of things, C9 still gets more money. I don't agree that navi was destined to be last place though. They had showed that with a little bit more finesse and luck, getting top 8 wouldn't be a surprise. Guess they used up all their luck in the past 4 TIs.
C9? Where were they. I didn't see them at all in TI5.
Isn't the past identity of the team just the drow-visage draft? ^^
Nah. It was envy farming in dangerous positions, bone7 and pld creating space for aui, and sing doing sing things. They used the map very well, and played greedy. Lots of split push, the #4 getting farmed etc.
I think the misfit in this team is notail actually. Their supports are often underfarmed, and while misery makes plays, notail does nothing. It is not that he is bad, it just isn't a good fit. They really miss Aui.
It was also crazy non-consensus drafts with a lot of pocket heroes (meepo or mirana pre-buffs for instance) along with a lot of playstyles/meta breaking trends (bone's offlane builds were copied by the whole proscene back in the day; his bat/clock were actually good; Chinese commentators were marveling at his clock at TI4 lol)
ugh this topic just makes me annoyed
You mean frustrated and sad ? lol don't worry it's not just you
That was when envy started drafting for the team again and they had alot of pretty innovative drafts and playstyle introduction that got played by other teams multiple times better lol like the drow shit is one of them
yeah post monster invitational C9 was actually just a font of new strategies and cool stuff. And yes, this topic is pretty depressing.
Aui has grown so much, I honestly that PLD helped him so much in becoming a true support player(from warding to lane play; one of the little things I alluded to earlier). He's become really well rounded and I do think that special greedy 4 is something no other team had besides old zai and current fy and maybe xiao8. In most cases as Yango mentioned, instead of a greedy 4, in this meta the 4 and the 3 swap farm priorities. It was just so powerful to know that your 4 pos. support was basically a secret carry who could step into the mentality of a carry player. (remember when everyone was asking aui and EE to swap roles lol)
On August 05 2015 14:00 ampson wrote: I'll always root for Envy. But he'll never win anything if he sticks with bone7.
What Envy really needs is 4 guys that can carry him, tough job but hope dies last.
I don't know if you and I watched the same tournament, but Envy was consistently the best or second best player on the team. Nobody except him and Misery showed up to TI5.
I feel so bad for Misery. He's been part of every single TI so far, but rarely got the chance to have anything to do with the victory because of his teams being simply not good enough. This time, he's in a good team that COULD have gone far, but that played like garbage in the main event, even though he was one of the few guys who really performed.
On August 05 2015 14:11 DucK- wrote: I remember Goody going all about how C9's gonna do well etc in the Navi thread. Sad that Navi didn't do better though :\ I'd say though that Navi could leave TI5 with their heads held high, whereas C9 should just crumble in shame.
C9 didn't look like C9 at all. Zero identity.
Yeah, they should be really proud of their last place
On August 05 2015 14:11 DucK- wrote: I remember Goody going all about how C9's gonna do well etc in the Navi thread. Sad that Navi didn't do better though :\ I'd say though that Navi could leave TI5 with their heads held high, whereas C9 should just crumble in shame.
C9 didn't look like C9 at all. Zero identity.
Yeah, they should be really proud of their last place
Reminder that, 3 monthes ago, NaVi going to Seatle was really really not a sure thing.
On topic, I'm happy that all the decision on the team management were fruitful for C9... They had a team on the rise in TI4, EE just fucked up hard since then (and yes, kicking Aui was just the stupidest thing ever).
On August 05 2015 14:44 DucK- wrote: You can't compare aui with other #4 because he is just in another category of his own. Zai was the closest to him, and Zai was definitely superior to Aui, but not by a lot.
This current c9 feels like they are playing with 2 #5.
Problem is that I think AUI style 4s fit best with the C9/Envy Style of the game. When c9's purring they played keep away like no body. I mean they were in a class of their own.
Ofc the big elephant in the room is a movement from a farming efficiency meta to one where team fights are important and no c9 team has really had the execution down. Though that's probably down to this long standing issue of leadership and breaking base late.
On a side note, such a shame this video came to waste:
I was ready to see Envy build on TI4.
I don't get feeling sorry for anyone. Envy took a gamble and it didn't pay off. NoTail just fell off a cliff sadly. It would be lovely if it was a bit more obvious why people rate Bone7. The bluemoon amazing performance didn't happen. Fata is amazing... on a few heroes [Maybe an Envy Criticism too]. His pool seems limited compared to the other Tier 1 carries or at least out of favor this patch. Maybe should have drafted more around him since his stability was huge.
Misery really put in big plays for C9 but all in all he's solid. There's not spectacular. He's ok. He's not slipping into any other top 4 contending team easily. The problem is that he was playing the 4 and possibly the wrong sort of 4 for Envy. Though TBF all of them were operating in a vaccuum of leadership.
EPT
