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On September 16 2016 10:40 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 09:16 SupLilSon wrote:
I think this roster looks very strong and is definitely an improvement. People in here are blowing the intangibles way out of proportion. This team is basically fielding top talent at every single position. This has never in itself formed a great team, actually it highlights the problem, or at least one of them; ego. Fear has a job on his hands, and these guys have to gel, and work as a unit, rather than a gathering of individual skill, as often happens when there are no "watercarriers", or experienced minds pulling the strings. Two years ago I spent time trying to explain Cr1t- that confidence is not just good, as you can become overconfident; cocky, while he thought confidence was just a positive, and you couldn't be too confident. Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 10:32 brinepumps wrote:On September 16 2016 04:19 Dracolich70 wrote:On September 16 2016 04:16 Kamisamanachi wrote:
Young boys ?? All of them are far from young.. Only Universe is old at 26, the rest are 17-20. That is young boys. Honey, I concede, I'm more than old. "of course you are, you're 31 with 2 kids. Stop playing games. Now go fold the laundry" Affirmative It was meant in quotes and in context of the ages. Just like you call a footballer old, when at 30+. Kamisamanachi thought they were far from young. You are still young at 31, even if the wife and two kids most likely sucked most juice out of you. In context of gamers, you are old, although merely a child compared to me.
SEE HONEY, I'M MERELY A CHILD, SO FUCK THESE LAUNDRY I'M GONNA GO PLAY KITE OUTSIDE
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The main issue with Crit as captain is that he still needs the other 4 to trust his calls. Fear and PPD should help with that.
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IDK why ppl keep saying sumail/rtz playstyle clash, where's your proof? It was completely fine last time.
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I'm not sold on this lineup. I don't think rtz plays well enough from the safe lane. Still prefer if a team builds around him as a mid player.
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Vatican City State1573 Posts
6 months to go for RTZ join secret again
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On September 16 2016 12:03 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 10:40 Dracolich70 wrote:On September 16 2016 09:16 SupLilSon wrote:
I think this roster looks very strong and is definitely an improvement. People in here are blowing the intangibles way out of proportion. This team is basically fielding top talent at every single position. This has never in itself formed a great team, actually it highlights the problem, or at least one of them; ego. Fear has a job on his hands, and these guys have to gel, and work as a unit, rather than a gathering of individual skill, as often happens when there are no "watercarriers", or experienced minds pulling the strings. Two years ago I spent time trying to explain Cr1t- that confidence is not just good, as you can become overconfident; cocky, while he thought confidence was just a positive, and you couldn't be too confident. On September 16 2016 10:32 brinepumps wrote:On September 16 2016 04:19 Dracolich70 wrote:On September 16 2016 04:16 Kamisamanachi wrote:
Young boys ?? All of them are far from young.. Only Universe is old at 26, the rest are 17-20. That is young boys. Honey, I concede, I'm more than old. "of course you are, you're 31 with 2 kids. Stop playing games. Now go fold the laundry" Affirmative It was meant in quotes and in context of the ages. Just like you call a footballer old, when at 30+. Kamisamanachi thought they were far from young. You are still young at 31, even if the wife and two kids most likely sucked most juice out of you. In context of gamers, you are old, although merely a child compared to me. That's a fair assessment and I can't deny that there's a chance this team will underperform. However, cohesiveness and teamwork can be developed over time. I think it's harder to significantly increase individual skill across a whole team. If this team gels, which I believe they will, they will be a serious top international contender. Most of these players have played together for extensive periods of time through several metas. People are overplaying how much "ego" these individual players have and how they will clash. I'm sure all of these players had multiple options during the shuffle and chose to play together. This isn't a rag tag group of players rushing to find teams at the end of the shuffle. But sure, we've seen many dream teams fail to live up to the hype. Yes, it can, but it requires an open mind, and above all an acknowledgement of the most likely pitfalls. In short an awareness of their weaknesses, while all of them are fueled by a lot of(maybe too much) belief in their abilities - which is not easy. Outside this, playstyles have to mesh, and if not, they have to file off what could be their best strength, just in order to synergize or play into someone elses strength on the team. So there are some barriers, and building teams are far more difficult, than just picking ie the five best on each position.
Last time it was very hard for PPD to make RTZ and Sumail work optimally, and it always felt like eclectic, even when all players played well. Maybe it will be easier to sync, when there is no PPD with his mindset on how to play and direct, and now people of almost equal age and mindset..
I don't think their egos will clash. I think they will get along for the most part. It is more in the danger of being used to being the star player that has to make plays, which will be a problem if 4 or 5, are feeling like stars. That is why you rarely see starstudded teams succeed, as you need someone or several to glue it all together, and that often takes a lesser ego.
When I say ego, I don't mean big-headed, just someone aware of their strengths and status.
On September 16 2016 13:00 Birdie wrote:
IDK why ppl keep saying sumail/rtz playstyle clash, where's your proof? It was completely fine last time. The problem was that when Sumail was brought to EG, as RTZ left, he was propelled into a front seat position, where EG made sure Sumail could play to his strengths, and Fear was secondary or tertiary priority. When RTZ re-entered, they had to find a way to play into RTZ's strengths, which is often farm dependant, while not sacrificing Sumails strengths too much, and most of the time it never worked optimally, and either both or either one had to not play to their strengths.
Why do you think it was fine? And how? To me it felt like trying to fit a square peg into a hole, and EG went life and death through so many match it is unreal, and a credit to their tenacity, that they did get far in many tournaments.
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I think it was fine because they're pro players who can adjust their farm priority and playstyle to fit their team mates. And it was fine because they got good results during that period, too.
![[image loading]](https://puu.sh/rbEA3/2cfb0f43be.png)
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On September 16 2016 14:18 Birdie wrote:I think it was fine because they're pro players who can adjust their farm priority and playstyle to fit their team mates. And it was fine because they got good results during that period, too.
only two wins and two 3rd places at Majors, RTZ+Sumail=trash team confirmed
Seriously though haters gonna hate. I, for one, will give this roster a chance, because they deserve it.
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On September 16 2016 14:18 Birdie wrote:I think it was fine because they're pro players who can adjust their farm priority and playstyle to fit their team mates. And it was fine because they got good results during that period, too. PPD struggled to find the solution, and ending up sitting between two stools, where neither really shined.
As said, EG pulled very consistent results stil, albeit life and death 2-1s against the wall more often than not, in a field where they still lived on having the same core longer than other teams.
RTZ rejoined in august 2015, and they only won The Summit 4 and Captains draft, and even though they did get plenty of top placings, it is not like the several 1st placings prior to him rejoining, so saying it is fine is evidently another way of saying it was not a disaster, which it wasn't. This was supposedly meant as an upgrade, and it wasn't - only on paper.
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They "only" won two tournaments and placed top 3 in nearly every other one. But they weren't able to play together.
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On September 16 2016 08:56 lolnoty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2016 08:15 nayumi wrote:
Rtz and Sumail can't lead.
Universe and Zai are a bit quite.
Crit is new.
The lack of shot caller will hurt this team a lot. Though if they can overcome that I can't see them not making at least top 3 next Major. PPD was as "new" (as in, by popular perception) when he shotcalled sadboys
EG wasn't the powerhouse in Dota 2 as they are today. The pressure and expectation were much lower. Crit is now responsible for captaining/shot-calling a TI winning team. I might be wrong but from my understanding back at OG it was Fly and Notail who assumed this role. Not saying they will crash and burn, but it's quite a big task to step up to and succeed at. Glamorous pubstar mids like Sumail or Miracle pop up every year, but there haven't been as many captains on ppd's caliber.
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It's going to take 3-5 months before their drafting get anywhere close to decent. Does anyone on this team have actual drafting experience in the last 2 years? Modern drafting is really, really hard. And the loss of ppd is going to be felt extremely quickly.
But let's talk about ppd. He just attached himself to Twitch/Amazon, much like Charlie. If he stays there, that's a great 5th pick that no one saw coming. He's made 2.6mil USD in prize money (plus salary). He leaves as the most consistent captain in Dota history and transitions into another career that can more than easily sustain him for the rest of his life. The guy has supreme game-sense.
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We have no idea how cr1t is going to be as a captain. He could be shit. He could be amazing. How about we see it before we say this team is beyond doomed. They have a phenomenal roster on paper and I'm excited to see it in practice.
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On September 16 2016 16:21 Taf the Ghost wrote:
It's going to take 3-5 months before their drafting get anywhere close to decent. Does anyone on this team have actual drafting experience in the last 2 years? Modern drafting is really, really hard. And the loss of ppd is going to be felt extremely quickly.
But let's talk about ppd. He just attached himself to Twitch/Amazon, much like Charlie. If he stays there, that's a great 5th pick that no one saw coming. He's made 2.6mil USD in prize money (plus salary). He leaves as the most consistent captain in Dota history and transitions into another career that can more than easily sustain him for the rest of his life. The guy has supreme game-sense. Think Zai had 1 match to be drafter in, in Secret, and got removed afterwards.
To be honest I don't think PPD attached himself, I think it was more a matter of, "We want to do this, and they want to do this, so take this offer or leave it, while we make a profit off this assemble in merchandise and sponsorships.".
PPD is just sitting out waiting to be the rescuer. PPDs ego is too big to leave on this note.
Maybe Day 3, will be CLQ, BSJ, Moo and PPD and some other on 3 letters.
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On September 16 2016 12:31 shizaep wrote:
Tbh Cr1t on 5 feels like a waste. He won OG games by just playing out of his mind and making ridiculous plays on hereos like Tusk and Lion and just using items to their max potential. Having him playing heroes like Chen or dazzle or some shit just feels like he's not given the opportunity to do what he excels at. Same with Zai I'd say. Probaly the two best 4s i nteh world and one of them has to play a 5. And I don't think Cr1t drafted a single game for OG, it was all Fly with the mastermind drafts.
And didn't we all witness the Arteezy/Suma1l "playstyle clash" the last time it happened? What makes people think it will be different the second time around?
what is arteezy's playstyle vs sumail's, really?
same thing with crit playing 5 vs playing 4 pos. what is the difference? it's extremely hard to tell unless you compare games played closely together in the same situations. i'd say it's impossible really, it's felt but can't be seen.
does crit's ES need farm? certainly not, like most ES players, they only need one or two items total.
he played 5 in a lot of OG games where they fielded a midas phoenix and prepared to play for a shiva's timing.
i highly doubt crit will be the one playing chen, wisp, or dazzle either. like many teams, for example MVP.P, they'll probably just figure out who is what under which heroes they decide to pick.
actually the same thing with arteezy and sumail also except moreso on the point of arteezy playing heroes meant for the safelane more often.
slark is in the meta, so is morphling, etc. these are all heroes that do well on their own.
it will be different the second time around because players improve.
are drafts and gameplan somehow infallible, or less influential than player habits?
MLG world finals
sometimes it's the heroes slightly more than the overall execution itself.
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I think people greatly overestimate what it takes to become a good captain. In theory, I see absolutely zero reason as to why someone like Cr1t wouldn't be able to step up and become one. Everyone has to start somewhere.
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I don't think the difference for cr1t is really the farm he is going to get. I don't think he was particularly known for heroes that farm a lot as a 4 but rather at least for me his signature heroes were mostly heroes that move around a lot and make stuff happen. For example Tusk and Wisp around the Frankfurt Major time, later on Earth Spirit and Elder Titan. One of the supports is going to have to take a bit more traditional lane support duties, but it's not like they haven't occasionally played that role already.
Maybe one can look at it in a way that one of the supports can't use that sort of playmaking strength, but at least they are not on an opposing team. If cr1t can do well as a captain then even if he plays 5 it's hardly a waste.
On September 16 2016 17:50 Dysisa wrote:
I think people greatly overestimate what it takes to become a good captain. In theory, I see absolutely zero reason as to why someone like Cr1t wouldn't be able to step up and become one. Everyone has to start somewhere.
Most players are "just players", it isn't really natural for them to step up and take responsibility of preparation, drafting, making calls throughout the game and whatnot. Not to mention managing to keep your composure if you start losing and the team starts arguing. It's far easier to be someone who just makes occasional suggestions from the sidelines than the one making the final decision. I don't really have an opinion as far as cr1t goes, all I have to go on is my impressions of him as a person as I haven't really heard how he is ingame anywhere. But I don't think the transition is easy at all for most players. Maybe cr1t can do fine, we'll see.
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easily four most unlikeable persons in dota 2 and cr1t
cant root for EG anymore
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On September 16 2016 17:50 Dysisa wrote:
I think people greatly overestimate what it takes to become a good captain. In theory, I see absolutely zero reason as to why someone like Cr1t wouldn't be able to step up and become one. Everyone has to start somewhere.
The vast vast majority of people are not leaders at all. Most are followers and clingers on, some pretend to be leaders but are the furthest thing from, and a tiny amount are actual leaders. Maybe he will end up being one but no one greatly overestimates what it takes to be a good captain. If anything its severely underestimated.
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Poland3752 Posts
I'm not rooting for anything with SumaiL.
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EPT
