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Shanghai Previews - Team Secret

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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DoctorHeckle
Profile Joined October 2013
United States192 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-03 01:33:28
February 23 2016 02:11 GMT
#1
IntroductionGameplayPlayersHow to Beat

Team Secret

Team Secret left Frankfurt in a position of renewed strength. Their second place finish, together with their two previous LAN wins, was proof that the reconstituted roster was poised to carry on the dynasty that the TI5 era squad had founded—and subsequently tarnished with TI5’s disappointing early exit. The story since they left Germany in late November, however, has thrown the team’s dominance into question. Having forgone participation in The Summit and online-only tournaments like Captain’s Draft 3.0 and the qualifiers for WePlay Season 3 has only left them with a paltry 39 games on record since the previous Major.

A small sample size with a young patch casting a backdrop on half of the events Secret has played can excuse an overall losing record of 16 wins and 23 losses, but on the days leading up to Shanghai it also does them no favors. With enough time to digest the nuances of 6.86, Secret comes to China to bring their brand of dominance to the world stage as they did in the fall. What should be a storyline of sealing the deal and getting the team over their final hurdle to greatness is, as it was at the beginning of the fall season, a drive to validate.

Gameplay

Much of the success of Secret this year has come off solid play from the team’s core position players: EternalEnvy, w33, and Misery. Winning Envy’s lane and securing him a good start is integral to Secret’s early game plan. As teams tend to favor a dedicated roaming support or a 2-1-2 layout, Puppey and pieliedie generally do not work in aggressive tandem during the laning stage, instead going for defensive heroes like Tusk and Dazzle, and signature picks like pie’s disruptive roaming Bounty Hunter and and Puppey’s early pushing Chen. Of the other cores, w33 largely holds his own with strong laners like Invoker or his own take on Earth Spirit, which he brings mid. His strong mechanical skill allows w33 to succeed in a vacuum and rarely relies on rotations as a crutch to winning his lane. In the offlane, Misery’s broad hero pallette is a smoke screen to the draft. Be it patch dandies like Faceless Void and Lone Druid, sturdy mainstays like Dark Seer and Slardar, or pocket picks like Timbersaw and Nyx Assassin, much of Misery’s success comes from his familiarities of play and execution with his veritable rogue’s gallery rather than laning success.

Team Secret is not an early game, roll over kind of team. Envy’s hero pool favors hard carries like Anti Mage and Ember Spirit over more active early game carries. As a result, the rest of the team fills the gap with space creation to ensure that Envy’s mid game blossoms. w33 typically leads the charge, with mid game teamfight initiators like Invoker, Puck, Earth Spirit, and Magnus supplemented by teamfight ultimates from either pie or Puppey, and pick off abilities like Walrus Punch, Fiend’s Grip, and Track. Misery is unfortunately often left high and dry and uses the mid game to make the best out of a bad situation by either farming the jungle or coming in after the initial initiation from w33. Once late game rolls around, Secret usually has the upper hand due to their inclination of drafting well-scaling heroes and the proficiency of their cores to perform in late game scenarios.

PlayerK/D/ATeam GoldMost Played
EternalEnvy7.0/3.7/8.130%
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w336.7/4.5/9.122%
[image loading]
[image loading]
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Misery3.4/4.7/9.322%
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
Puppey2.0/5.0/9.713%
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
pieliedie2.3/4.4/8.713%
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]


Players

[image loading]

The notorious Jacky Mao. His endless search to become the best that’s ever played continues under the banner of Team Secret, as does his signature playstyle of efficient farming and hard carry favoritism. When not preparing and playing in tournaments, he can be seen streaming along to anime soundtracks and offering helpful, constructive advice to teammates in pub matches. In tournament games, the fruits of his methodical play is usually the ticket to Secret’s success as he maximizes the space his team allots to him to get online. Flares of 6.84 still come out every once in awhile in the form of a Gyrocopter pick up for a stats-heavy, early fighting build, but these are largely supplanted by Skadi carrying classics like Terrorblade and Spectre.
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w33 and fellow pub star Miracle have been the breakout success stories in time since TI5, converting their high placing ranked matchmaking skills into big time tournament winnings. Having achieved success with Secret, he continues the good fortune of having his hero pool align with strong picks for this patch. His Earth Spirit play in a mid role is unique among the upper crust of professional teams and is usually played to great effect. His job of locking down the map and converting the conquered territory into Envy’s farming playground is an incredibly important step in Team Secret’s game plan. Dominating his lane and securing a good start for himself frees up pie and Puppey’s time to make sure that objectives are being met elsewhere
[image loading]

Misery’s latest stop on his career long game of musical chairs has been his most successful yet by fulfilling the role of offlaner for Secret. While a departure from his usual support role from his times at Cloud9 and mousesports, he has adapted well and carved out a reputation for his ability to take over games on heroes like Slardar and Broodmother. In the dying days of 6.85, heroes that played an active role in roaming about the map and getting quick picks would help make up for a usually lackluster laning phase. The advent of 6.86 has seen him playing a LOT of Lone Druid, taking after a more split push oriented playstyle akin to the heyday of Broodmother. Initiation heroes like Clockwerk and Tidehunter are still very much on the menu, however, as versatility and depth of Misery’s hero pool is a major part of his contributions to the Secret lineup.
[image loading]

As the last founding member of the original TI5 era Secret team remaining, Puppey has reassembled his team into a devastating force who can go toe to toe with anyone on the global stage. Characterized by his unique drafting and active support rotations, he has been a long time favorite in the Dota community since his time in the sun with Natus Vincere. Since 6.86, he has specialized is defensive supports like Dazzle to keep Envy’s laning phase as stress free as possible. His trademark Chen is a constant respect ban, due to the hero’s role in ending the laning stage quickly and global support presence. Of the two supports, he accrues the big support items while pieliedie martyrs himself for vision and other auxiliary roles. As of the MDL finals, he has also interestingly ceded drafting duties to Envy. Whether this is a permanent shift in responsibility or just a temporary experiment is yet to be seen.
[image loading]

Rounding out Secret line up is the player who the term “tactical feeding” resonates the strongest. Since his days in Kaipi and Cloud9, pieliedie has taken up the role as selfless support and has made a career in making something out of nothing. Most notably is his support Bounty Hunter, who may not see a hint of experience until a good five minutes in, all the while gumming up the early game works of his opponents. Be it harassing jungle heroes or hunting for hapless walking couriers, pie’s dedication to being a nuisance is admirable. Prior to his cores coming online, pie can often be spotted making an initiation onto an enemy hero and paying for the resulting set up with his life, more often than not netting his team and effective trade. Truly the MacGyver of supporting, his inventive play combined with Puppey’s meticulous care brought Secret and Fall season full of success. Securing a victory in Shanghai would only be another check mark in pieliedie’s new life as a player on a team that can achieve more than second place.

How to beat - Team Secret

The motif of Team Secret is ramping up to relevance. Aside from their matches against Mineski and Fnatic, Secret seldom wins in under 30 minutes, so collapsing the laning stage early and showing aggression with a push oriented lineup is a great strategy if you are looking to defeat them. In lieu of getting a sensible Zerg rush lineup drafted, a mid game centric team that can effectively shut down Envy’s safe laning experience and keep him on the back foot is key in paralyzing their game plan, as Envy is 1-17 when finishing with a negative kill/death score. Heroes like Death Prophet, Chen, Gyrocopter, and Razor have historically been able to get in the face of the stalwart defense set up to deflect pushes, bolstered by healers like Dazzle and Witch Doctor. If ganking Envy is too hard, cutting the legs out from under w33 by shutting down his lane is another way to lay bare Secret’s mid game and expose it to a well executed timing push. Since w33 tends to focus on mid to late game effectiveness, causing him to miss his timing on levels or items can easily create the domino effect needed for victory.

A viable, but risky, option is to take the game past the 50 minute mark. Despite Envy’s experience with late game scenarios, Secret has struggled with closing the door on games past 50 minutes since Frankfurt, losing nearly twice as often once the game goes that late. This lies in the eventual 4-protect-1 mold that Secret’s drafts form to after w33’s heroes begin to degrade in effectiveness. Out-lategaming Secret is ONLY advisable if (and only if) your team has a player that can confidently say they can out carry EternalEnvy. This, unless you have won an International or at least placed in the top three of an international LAN in the past two months, is very unlikely, and should probably just go for an early push.

Writer: DoctorHeckle
Editor: Heyoka, tehh4ck3r, Julmust
Graphics: Nixer
Images: Liquipedia
I keep things two ways: Nice, and neat.
Dracolich70
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark3820 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-23 03:02:49
February 23 2016 02:55 GMT
#2
To me they are the direct opposite of EG. Their composition seems off(PPY often being a jungle hero, and is in dire straits whether to help EE or W33, when pressure shifts between them). While EG are very strong in mind, and rarely tilts, this seems to be the norm with Secret. PPY is the much stronger drafter and captain, but his team doesn't have the same cohesion, which is the part that PPD benefits from. Misery is more talented than universe, and a vaster pool, but he lacks the consistency, which is probably more due to the lack of cohesion in relation to EG, and him not being as strong of mind as Universe. Misery has improved this aspect, but it is still not on par with other offlaners. While Fear is a great help to PPD, PPY doesn't seem to have the same help from PLD or vice versa for that matter. While neither pairs are the strongest in the tournament, far from it, it seems better on EG.

While they seem to have their style set, unlike EG, they are not nearly as flexible, when needing to adjust from a failing draft/laning stage.

The skill and experience is there, but the composition is not all great.
LiangHao
bumwithagun
Profile Joined January 2011
United States153 Posts
February 23 2016 03:22 GMT
#3
On February 23 2016 11:55 Dracolich70 wrote:
Misery is more talented than universe, and a vaster pool, but he lacks the consistency, which is probably more due to the lack of cohesion in relation to EG, and him not being as strong of mind as Universe. Misery has improved this aspect, but it is still not on par with other offlaners.


This is crazy...im pretty sure universe is about as elite as offlane talent gets. Misery, not so much. There is certainly no better western offlaner than universe.
zev318
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada4306 Posts
February 23 2016 03:27 GMT
#4
everyone would take universe, get out of here
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44060 Posts
February 23 2016 03:35 GMT
#5
On February 23 2016 12:22 bumwithagun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2016 11:55 Dracolich70 wrote:
Misery is more talented than universe, and a vaster pool, but he lacks the consistency, which is probably more due to the lack of cohesion in relation to EG, and him not being as strong of mind as Universe. Misery has improved this aspect, but it is still not on par with other offlaners.


This is crazy...im pretty sure universe is about as elite as offlane talent gets. Misery, not so much. There is certainly no better western offlaner than universe.

zai is better but he's not playing so universe is the best atm
this is a quote
Dracolich70
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark3820 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-23 03:50:57
February 23 2016 03:41 GMT
#6
On February 23 2016 12:22 bumwithagun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2016 11:55 Dracolich70 wrote:
Misery is more talented than universe, and a vaster pool, but he lacks the consistency, which is probably more due to the lack of cohesion in relation to EG, and him not being as strong of mind as Universe. Misery has improved this aspect, but it is still not on par with other offlaners.


This is crazy...im pretty sure universe is about as elite as offlane talent gets. Misery, not so much. There is certainly no better western offlaner than universe.
I agree, although ABD plays his heroes at higher level, than Universe does(well, than anyone), and Moon is not far behind Universe. This was meant in the context of as a player, not as an offlaner.
LiangHao
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
February 23 2016 03:59 GMT
#7
On February 23 2016 12:35 goody153 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2016 12:22 bumwithagun wrote:
On February 23 2016 11:55 Dracolich70 wrote:
Misery is more talented than universe, and a vaster pool, but he lacks the consistency, which is probably more due to the lack of cohesion in relation to EG, and him not being as strong of mind as Universe. Misery has improved this aspect, but it is still not on par with other offlaners.


This is crazy...im pretty sure universe is about as elite as offlane talent gets. Misery, not so much. There is certainly no better western offlaner than universe.

zai is better but he's not playing so universe is the best atm

that's a stretch
posting on liquid sites in current year
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11043 Posts
February 23 2016 04:23 GMT
#8
If this team could sub Zai in, I think it might just have enough. As is, good team but no EG.
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
brinepumps
Profile Joined February 2015
Indonesia753 Posts
February 23 2016 04:34 GMT
#9
Thanks guys for all sick ass team articles!

*bows*
"if you don't believe you can do it, then you have no chance at all" - Arsene Wenger
lolnoty
Profile Joined December 2005
United States7166 Posts
February 23 2016 04:44 GMT
#10
On February 23 2016 13:23 Sabu113 wrote:
If this team could sub Zai in, I think it might just have enough. As is, good team but no EG.

I don't think Zai would go back to TS. The main reason RTZ/Zai went to TS is they regarded S4 as the best dota2 player in terms of understanding + play. TS's glory days were after the helm was transferred to S4 to draft/have the last word in play calls. With TS's current roster I don't think the team would have the same allure to him.
"PPD is a very angry guy. He controls us." - Arteezy
TomatoBisque
Profile Joined March 2013
United States6290 Posts
February 23 2016 04:47 GMT
#11
On February 23 2016 13:44 lolnoty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2016 13:23 Sabu113 wrote:
If this team could sub Zai in, I think it might just have enough. As is, good team but no EG.

I don't think Zai would go back to TS. The main reason RTZ/Zai went to TS is they regarded S4 as the best dota2 player in terms of understanding + play. TS's glory days were after the helm was transferred to S4 to draft/have the last word in play calls. With TS's current roster I don't think the team would have the same allure to him.

Both rtz and zai have said they would team with Puppey again, and Puppey implied in an interview that s4 was captain in name only.
rip
subl1me
Profile Joined November 2011
Chile60 Posts
February 23 2016 05:10 GMT
#12
Go EE <3
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3252 Posts
February 23 2016 05:22 GMT
#13
On February 23 2016 12:59 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2016 12:35 goody153 wrote:
On February 23 2016 12:22 bumwithagun wrote:
On February 23 2016 11:55 Dracolich70 wrote:
Misery is more talented than universe, and a vaster pool, but he lacks the consistency, which is probably more due to the lack of cohesion in relation to EG, and him not being as strong of mind as Universe. Misery has improved this aspect, but it is still not on par with other offlaners.


This is crazy...im pretty sure universe is about as elite as offlane talent gets. Misery, not so much. There is certainly no better western offlaner than universe.

zai is better but he's not playing so universe is the best atm

that's a stretch

I agree. I think that Zai did a marvelous job at catching up to Uni when he played offlane, but I don't think he was there yet. I think he has a similar potential however.
As for Misery, he certainly has his good points like his large hero pool and his fearless play at times. But he also lacks the stability and consistency that make Universe the best offlaner in the west.

@article great job, was a good read. Some minor things:
"Much of the success of Secret this year has come off solid play from the team’s core position players" certainly wouldn't have been my words. Both envy and w33 both struggle a lot when they are shut down and both are prone to overaggression. I think both can really shine when they have a good game, but both can have terrible games and just end the game underfarmed and without impact.
low gravity, yes-yes!
lolnoty
Profile Joined December 2005
United States7166 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-23 05:52:50
February 23 2016 05:51 GMT
#14
On February 23 2016 13:47 TomatoBisque wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2016 13:44 lolnoty wrote:
On February 23 2016 13:23 Sabu113 wrote:
If this team could sub Zai in, I think it might just have enough. As is, good team but no EG.

I don't think Zai would go back to TS. The main reason RTZ/Zai went to TS is they regarded S4 as the best dota2 player in terms of understanding + play. TS's glory days were after the helm was transferred to S4 to draft/have the last word in play calls. With TS's current roster I don't think the team would have the same allure to him.

Both rtz and zai have said they would team with Puppey again, and Puppey implied in an interview that s4 was captain in name only.

can you point me to that puppey interview? I would be interested to see how he saw his role. After Starladder interviews with zai/rtz had them saying S4 was the drafter.

I'm sure there's a lot of people they would play in a team with, but I don't think puppey is a draw enough to think a team would be the best. They went out of their way a year + (before joining TS) on twitter saying S4 was the best player. I would think it's the combination of S4 + Puppey that drew them in, but S4 is what made 2015 secret work.
"PPD is a very angry guy. He controls us." - Arteezy
DavoS
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States4605 Posts
February 23 2016 07:50 GMT
#15
To me Secret's success come from how well Puppey and pie undderstand each other and how EE has been playing like an absolute beast even when Secret looks bad. Long as w33 and Misery bring their A game I think they can still prove they should be invited to events.
Having said that, a bad showing here and at ESL is probably all it will take for them to lose direct invite status
"KDA is actually the most useless stat in the game" Aui_2000
bluzi
Profile Joined May 2011
4703 Posts
February 23 2016 07:55 GMT
#16
Another great coffee read thanks guys.
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-23 08:32:51
February 23 2016 08:12 GMT
#17
I find Secret one of the more interesting teams going into Shanghai. Partly I guess because I'm hoping they bounce back, but in general I think it's interesting to see what they have tried to change now that they had some time to practice, had a bootcamp etc. A lot of people seem to expect them to just continue a downward spiral and then change players, but I'm not quite convinced. I think Puppey is drafting, and it seems they've also brought in 1437 to assist as a coach.

On February 23 2016 14:51 lolnoty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2016 13:47 TomatoBisque wrote:
On February 23 2016 13:44 lolnoty wrote:
On February 23 2016 13:23 Sabu113 wrote:
If this team could sub Zai in, I think it might just have enough. As is, good team but no EG.

I don't think Zai would go back to TS. The main reason RTZ/Zai went to TS is they regarded S4 as the best dota2 player in terms of understanding + play. TS's glory days were after the helm was transferred to S4 to draft/have the last word in play calls. With TS's current roster I don't think the team would have the same allure to him.

Both rtz and zai have said they would team with Puppey again, and Puppey implied in an interview that s4 was captain in name only.

can you point me to that puppey interview? I would be interested to see how he saw his role. After Starladder interviews with zai/rtz had them saying S4 was the drafter.

I'm sure there's a lot of people they would play in a team with, but I don't think puppey is a draw enough to think a team would be the best. They went out of their way a year + (before joining TS) on twitter saying S4 was the best player. I would think it's the combination of S4 + Puppey that drew them in, but S4 is what made 2015 secret work.




I assume he means this one, Puppey talks about his previous teams after the 8 min mark or so and about the old Secret a few minutes later. Though he doesn't talk about it that extensively.

As far as Zai goes if he wants to join a team already before TI I think Secret is an easy option if they end up not doing great and making changes after Shanghai. From what I know Zai likes Puppey and EE. Zai still has his school, but as far as I know it ends before the Manila Major and TI is after that so if he wants to join a team he could do it after Shanghai and then just start playing more as the major approaches. It's less likely that there would be an opening at EG at this point. But if he is planning to join a team only after TI then it's a different story.
SaltySam
Profile Joined January 2013
65 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-23 08:34:47
February 23 2016 08:30 GMT
#18
On February 23 2016 13:47 TomatoBisque wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2016 13:44 lolnoty wrote:
On February 23 2016 13:23 Sabu113 wrote:
If this team could sub Zai in, I think it might just have enough. As is, good team but no EG.

I don't think Zai would go back to TS. The main reason RTZ/Zai went to TS is they regarded S4 as the best dota2 player in terms of understanding + play. TS's glory days were after the helm was transferred to S4 to draft/have the last word in play calls. With TS's current roster I don't think the team would have the same allure to him.

Both rtz and zai have said they would team with Puppey again, and Puppey implied in an interview that s4 was captain in name only.
Quite the opposite actually. You are remembering it wrong. All the Team Secret players (can't remember if Kuro said anything) said that s4 was the captain and drafter. It was either Puppey or Zai who said that Puppey's drafts got figured out and Zai's drafts were terrible. So, s4 started drafting and they won all those tournaments after he started drafting. It doesn't matter if teammates give input or suggestions if they do not make the final call for a decision.
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44060 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-23 08:44:10
February 23 2016 08:37 GMT
#19
On February 23 2016 13:23 Sabu113 wrote:
If this team could sub Zai in, I think it might just have enough. As is, good team but no EG.

I agree but i hope this is not the case i don't wanna change anybody from the roster. I'd rather have them figure out wtf is wrong and fix it themselves

On February 23 2016 12:59 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2016 12:35 goody153 wrote:
On February 23 2016 12:22 bumwithagun wrote:
On February 23 2016 11:55 Dracolich70 wrote:
Misery is more talented than universe, and a vaster pool, but he lacks the consistency, which is probably more due to the lack of cohesion in relation to EG, and him not being as strong of mind as Universe. Misery has improved this aspect, but it is still not on par with other offlaners.


This is crazy...im pretty sure universe is about as elite as offlane talent gets. Misery, not so much. There is certainly no better western offlaner than universe.

zai is better but he's not playing so universe is the best atm

that's a stretch

Of course that's just my observation .. at the start of Secret DAC time he wasn't that explosive but later on he was stable and good at play making(like zai 4 position good)

one of the reasons why i thought Secret 2.0 star power was insane. Not just by name but the supports weren't the one that made it look sick it was the cores. ( of course i'm only talking about times that s4 wasn't tilting )

On February 23 2016 17:30 SaltySam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2016 13:47 TomatoBisque wrote:
On February 23 2016 13:44 lolnoty wrote:
On February 23 2016 13:23 Sabu113 wrote:
If this team could sub Zai in, I think it might just have enough. As is, good team but no EG.

I don't think Zai would go back to TS. The main reason RTZ/Zai went to TS is they regarded S4 as the best dota2 player in terms of understanding + play. TS's glory days were after the helm was transferred to S4 to draft/have the last word in play calls. With TS's current roster I don't think the team would have the same allure to him.

Both rtz and zai have said they would team with Puppey again, and Puppey implied in an interview that s4 was captain in name only.
Quite the opposite actually. You are remembering it wrong. All the Team Secret players (can't remember if Kuro said anything) said that s4 was the captain and drafter. It was either Puppey or Zai who said that Puppey's drafts got figured out and Zai's drafts were terrible. So, s4 started drafting and they won all those tournaments after he started drafting. It doesn't matter if teammates give input or suggestions if they do not make the final call for a decision.


I don't think that's true. The drafter isn't one man brain army he decides which goes through the strategy is created by the team itself. Ppd has mentioned this before.

Have you noticed that Secret drafts of this iteration of Secret looks like c9 drafts.(example would be ember/PA/AM-magnus )


They just prevent dudes from doing the "dude pick me storm" and then the 5th pick AM from the other team comes out.
this is a quote
Emnjay808
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States10653 Posts
February 23 2016 09:07 GMT
#20
I'm salivating waiting for the OG article.
Skol
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