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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
On September 16 2014 06:17 LuckoftheIrish wrote: One day I want to play a character with Furion ult and Greevil's Greed. But I won't because AD isn't fun after Meepo. They removed Meepo. Unless you're complaining that he is no longer in the mode. | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On September 16 2014 06:20 LuckoftheIrish wrote: If people knowingly make shitty decisions, they shouldn't be surprised when those decisions have consequences. If you take out loans to pay for an expensive liberal arts college, and you get a degree that doesn't have career potential, it is no one's fault but your own that you're stuck in debt. It's no different to buying anything else you can't afford. I think people go into university for different reasons than for career interest. That's on top of the fact that they are only eligible for certain degrees or programs if they have right grades or curriculum in school (so someone who didn't achieve very well in Mathematics, is very unlikely to get those strong career-driven fields). Are we to blame, as a society, high-schoolers for failing to achieve certain areas of their semesters or those without the aptitude to achieve in Math, Science, Physics, Biology? Or is it fair of you to dismiss everyone because they didn't all choose the same fields that pay so very well? Let's not forget that if everyone chose those fields, demand would be lower, salaries would drop and they wouldn't be as "rational" of a choice as they once were. Not to mention that the other curriculums would also lose a lot of employment and, ultimately, hurt the society's economy. I think, in short, you narrowly defined the point of university to a purely practical purpose while also failing to see how your dismissive viewpoint not only hurts your own argument hypothetically, but also from a "rational" perspective as a society. | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On September 16 2014 06:34 Targe wrote: im literally only going to uni for career reasons im literally doing the exact opposite | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
Anyway, this discussion is boring as aids because it's been discussed to death a thousand times before. Education (in the USA) needs tremendous reform and arguing about it in LD GD is about as pointless as you can get. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On September 16 2014 06:38 crms wrote: You guys are both 'correct' and arguing from entirely different perspectives. Torte seems to be arguing for an ideal, and how it should work, and I would agree with him. Unfortunately, in the real world (USA specifically) for most people, majoring in something that doesn't yield gainful employment usually only earns you crippling debt or mediocre, unfulfilling work. Anyway, this discussion is boring as aids because it's been discussed to death a thousand times before. Education (in the USA) needs tremendous reform and arguing about it in LD GD is about as pointless as you can get. If anything, his point of view is idealistic. | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
Certainly some schools have it easier than others, however any degree is perfectly fine if you fill your time with relevant work experience. | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
There's nothing wrong with going to school to study liberal arts, social science, music; whatever you want. The problem is the mismatch of cost, debt and earning potential. There are a lot of reasons for this, ranging from popular culture to higher ed as a boutique industry to increased regulatory costs, and if you want to learn more there's a huge body of journalism on this topic as the American higher education bubble is in the process of collapsing. Regardless, attending university is almost certainly the single biggest financial commitment a person will make in their life. Treating it as anything other than practical is a mistake. | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
ya me too | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On September 16 2014 06:45 LuckoftheIrish wrote: You've completely forgotten the big thing about higher education; specifically, there are lots of different options that serve different communities. When you choose a college or university, you're making a decision as a consumer. And you have to pick the option that is right for you. Syracuse University costs roughly $60,000 a year. If you can pay for it with scholarships and grants (or you have rich parents), then going to SU to study Latin is fine. If you're going to take out $50,000 of loans every year, then going to SU to study Latin is a huge gamble, and maybe you'd be better off at the University of Virginia, which costs a third as much for a comparable or superior education. This is why top students in North Carolina end up going to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill rather than Duke; the two schools are both excellent, but one costs $24,000 and the other $64,000. There's nothing wrong with going to school to study liberal arts, social science, music; whatever you want. The problem is the mismatch of cost, debt and earning potential. There are a lot of reasons for this, ranging from popular culture to higher ed as a boutique industry to increased regulatory costs, and if you want to learn more there's a huge body of journalism on this topic as the American higher education bubble is in the process of collapsing. Regardless, attending university is almost certainly the single biggest financial commitment a person will make in their life. Treating it as anything other than practical is a mistake. Let's remove all the different costs for universities and assume your line of logic that X debt from university can be removed within a year [if] you study the right degree [subsequently landing you a high-paying job and/or one that pays your debt within a year]. I'm not denying how much of a commitment university is. I'm denying your false sense of logic where not only is a person's choice is limited to a degree that can pay well but also that it's possible for anyone to do it (and if not, they are to blame as you said yourself) but also as a society, not have consequences that could backfire on your own rationale. Under no hypothetical circumstance can everyone undertake your common sense to apply this. It would have more attendants than the schools can receive, it would lower salaries in the long-run and it's ignoring and dismissing societal situations for certain impoverished areas or where education is lacking. + Show Spoiler + It also further emphasizes the simplistic nature of what university has become. But honestly, that's just going philosophical and needless tangent On September 16 2014 06:54 LSB wrote: LuckoftheIrish, There are many different situations for many different people, overgeneralizing dilutes your point. Your point about a lot of American students not being focused enough on their Career and regretting it is valid, and unfortunately it affects a good portion of students. However it is a smaller portion than you think, and it usually is the vocal minority problem. Especially since the ones doing the journalism probably fall into the camp, and unemployed people have more time to complain on the internet. I highly doubt the American higher education bubble is going to collapse, especially considering the influx of Chinese nationals studying in the state. Winner. I just think your blame-the-victim mentality and over-generalization to be off-putting, especially the media attention university debts is creating because of how high these debts are becoming. Even ignoring that, your point-of-view is seriously flawed and dismissive. To note that from a personal standpoint, you should study something that pays well and I wish I had the chance to do it, even with my fortunate circumstances. But I wouldn't blame someone for not choosing or being able to choose those curriculums. | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
There are many different situations for many different people, overgeneralizing dilutes your point. Your point about a lot of American students not being focused enough on their Career and regretting it is valid, and unfortunately it affects a good portion of students. However it is a smaller portion than you think, and it usually is the vocal minority problem. Especially since the ones doing the journalism probably fall into the camp, and unemployed people have more time to complain on the internet. I highly doubt the American higher education bubble is going to collapse, especially considering the influx of Chinese nationals studying in the state. | ||
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Mecha King Ghidorah
United States595 Posts
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Rocket-Bear
3070 Posts
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On September 16 2014 06:54 LSB wrote: I highly doubt the American higher education bubble is going to collapse, especially considering the influx of Chinese nationals studying in the state. Doubt all you want, it's already happening. Law schools are contracting, academic departments are being eliminated, student debt accumulation is more than 7% of the GDP and colleges across the country are facing massive budget shortfalls. Torte, I'm going to leave this discussion here. You've completely failed to understand my argument and any further engagement is a waste of time. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
edit: I welcome to take this to PMs as well | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On the other hand you get Esquire if you go to law school after your name, so the debate is still out if it is worth it. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
I agree completely that going into significant debt for a degree you don't plan on making a career out of is a bad idea. | ||
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
Although, people might go for the subject they like regardless because they have an idea that they're different or, "It'll work itself out." Then there's a situation where people don't know what they want to do and go to university anyways or attempt a difficult major but switch because it's too difficult. For some reason, dropping out of college for a bit is not an acceptable option. If you spend your time getting a high paying degree that you don't like, you'll probably end up miserable anyways. There's no right answer. | ||
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