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General Discussion - Page 266

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
March 21 2012 23:57 GMT
#5301
On March 22 2012 08:50 flamewheel wrote:
that board is so mint


freshhhh
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
March 22 2012 00:08 GMT
#5302
One thing I forgot to mention (because the item wasn't out when I wrote it) is that Heaven's Halberd is a pretty good followup to BKB. Oftentimes you'll still want Cuirass though because your team needs one.

Also, because of Howl, Lycan is strong with pretty much any minion-based pusher. +16 damage on Spiderlings, Treants, Venom Wards, or Serpent Wards can be pretty damn brutal.
Moderator
Tryhat
Profile Joined March 2012
160 Posts
March 22 2012 00:27 GMT
#5303
On March 22 2012 05:32 LAN-f34r wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2012 04:37 Tryhat wrote:
On March 22 2012 04:08 TheYango wrote:
On March 22 2012 04:07 Kipsate wrote:
No, but it allows you to morph more of your base stats, if he gets +10 str he can morph +10 str from his base stats to agility, there is obviously a limit too it though.

Yes, but that doesn't need to be *stats*.

For the purpose of Morph, there's no reason that having Strength is better than having HP. Strength isn't inherently a better stat for Morphling just because of Morph.


Ok... But an ultimate orb doesn't give HP, and no one has mentioned that, so I have no idea why you bring it up. Armor/magic resistance is also better on Morphling. Does that invalidate what I say about +x to all stats is better on Morphling than on any other hero? Nope.

And yes, strength is a better stat for Morphling than other heroes precisely because of Morph. If you could buy Power Treads on Spectre that give +10 str and you can't change it into agi, would you rather do that than buy the sort that can be changed into agi? Would you say the latter sort is better? If you do, then I don't see why you can't agree that str is better on Morph than on other agi heroes.

And for those saying that Morphling can't morph stats from items... I already mention that in my first post. I said he has a buffer from which he can morph so up to a certain point where he runs out of base str/agi there is no difference from actually morphing stats from items.

Also, when I said an ultimate orb is better for him than for any other hero, I also meant the int which he needs desperately.


Ultimate orb gives str --> hp

Having options (to change str to agi and vice versa) is always good. You are comparing an item with a strictly worse item (the non-changing treads). Morphling doesn't gain more from str than he does from hp, apart from trying to get off a long duration stun. He simply has the ability to change hp to DPS and armor - gaining more dps or more hp helps him in terms of having more dps and hp. What you are saying is that when a character gets power treads, +stats are more powerful on them all of a sudden (slightly, power treads doesn't change stats to the same extent as morph)


Wow, this post actually made me rage a bit. If you try so hard to misunderstand me, of course you will succeed.

I know str gives hp. That's not the point. You see, the poster I responded to says Morphling doesn't only benefit from items that give +str, but items that give +hp. Then I say well, no one has brought up any items that give +hp (since Linken gives +str), and you respond by telling me that +str gives +hp. Do you see how stupid that is? Please read the whole conversation before entering it.

Yes, I was comparing an item with one that is strictly worse. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF MY COMPARISON. You see, if Treads that you CANNOT change stats on are worse than Treads you CAN change stats on, then it follows that stats on Morphling (which you CAN change into something else) is better than on heroes on which you CANNOT do that.

It was a just a comparison to illuminate that fact. I wasn't saying Power Treads is the same thing as Morphling the hero. I don't know if you use your brain at all when you respond to people, but maybe you should start to?


On March 22 2012 06:19 MrCon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2012 03:47 Tryhat wrote:
On March 22 2012 03:33 MrCon wrote:
I don't understand the reasoning behind linken being standard on morphling. I mean, all his skills are escape mechanisms basically. Why it's standard on him and not on comparable heroes which don't even have half his escape power ?


The HP regen is good for staying in lane, the MP regen is great for his waveform/morph. He is also the hero that benefits the most from items that give +x to all stats (until he has sufficient mana, and until he runs out of his str buffer), so the ultimate orb provides pretty good value in itself. And with Linkens he won't be surprise stunned from a Mirana arrow or a blink stunner, so he will always have time to use Morph to practically heal himself for 150 HP/sec (you can't activate Morph while stunned, but it works while stunned if you activate it before getting stunned), or to replicate away.

Thanks for the explanations everyone =)
I quoted just this post to say that I doubt the laning power is the reason, usually by the time you farmed 8 or 9k gold (aquila, power threads, +5k cost of linkens), your laning power will be good whatever item you choose =)


I said the HP regen is good for staying in lane. That comes from the Ring of Health, which can be bought in the sideshop for 875 gold. It's a component that is very useful to bad laners like many hard carries are, so you should often expect to see hard carries with finished items that make use of RoH. Vanguard, for instance, is core on AM, Spectre, Riki (although that has been debated in here), etc. Same thing with an item such as Battle Fury. Neither of those are particularly strong on Morphling, so it's no surprise that he has another item that makes use of RoH effectively.
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
March 22 2012 00:55 GMT
#5304
On March 22 2012 09:08 TheYango wrote:
One thing I forgot to mention (because the item wasn't out when I wrote it) is that Heaven's Halberd is a pretty good followup to BKB. Oftentimes you'll still want Cuirass though because your team needs one.

Also, because of Howl, Lycan is strong with pretty much any minion-based pusher. +16 damage on Spiderlings, Treants, Venom Wards, or Serpent Wards can be pretty damn brutal.

i have been getting heaven halberd a tons recently... such a good item to counter lategame dps heroes. the only sad part is sange is one of the worst item in the game...
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7596 Posts
March 22 2012 00:57 GMT
#5305
That is a sexy Lycan guide, thanks Yango+ Show Spoiler +
Mango!
LoLAdriankat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4307 Posts
March 22 2012 01:21 GMT
#5306
So... uhh, did anyone else just get two Dota 2's in their Steam inventory?
mrgerry
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1508 Posts
March 22 2012 01:21 GMT
#5307
Looks like Valve is expanding the beta, just received two beta invites in my inventory but don't see any press release or update talking about it. Hope it isn't a bug -_-
igotmyown
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4291 Posts
March 22 2012 01:22 GMT
#5308
On lycan builds: medallion first allows for much faster creeping than vlads. You can use it on golems, just like siege units.
So priority, aside from consumables: qb, sobi->basilius, second sobi->medallion, vlads, magic stick (hard camps and roshan will fill your stick quickly).

Items to avoid: stout shield: turns out mana regen for more wolves is a most cost effective tank than you.

Creep camps: the 6/3/3 camp is the best experience, the big troll focuses you but does piercing damage, which keeps your wolves alive. The small satyr camp (4/4/2/2) actually gives similar or more exp than the big satyr camp (6/3/1), and is safer. The big satyr camp you can take at level 1 with double wolf spawns, take out the range creep first to lower dps than the big creep. Golems you can also take out at level 1.
Avoid: panda camps until level 5 (they kick your ass even with double wolf spawns, and you'll have medallion by then so your wolves can solo the big guy). Avoid the wildkin camp, ogre camp, centaur camp, because they give terrible experience. Clearing the small camp twice is a better deal than clearing one of the bad camps. Sometimes at low levels I'll just kill the wildkin/centaur and switch camps. Wildkin will always focus you if you hit it, though you can attack one of his minions without agro.
Graviton
Profile Joined November 2011
Australia146 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-22 01:26:45
March 22 2012 01:23 GMT
#5309
On March 22 2012 09:55 NB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2012 09:08 TheYango wrote:
One thing I forgot to mention (because the item wasn't out when I wrote it) is that Heaven's Halberd is a pretty good followup to BKB. Oftentimes you'll still want Cuirass though because your team needs one.

Also, because of Howl, Lycan is strong with pretty much any minion-based pusher. +16 damage on Spiderlings, Treants, Venom Wards, or Serpent Wards can be pretty damn brutal.

i have been getting heaven halberd a tons recently... such a good item to counter lategame dps heroes. the only sad part is sange is one of the worst item in the game...

Somebody hasn't played 6 Sange CM.


On March 22 2012 10:21 mrgerry wrote:
Looks like Valve is expanding the beta, just received two beta invites in my inventory but don't see any press release or update talking about it. Hope it isn't a bug -_-

Yeah, I just got one as well.
LoLAdriankat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4307 Posts
March 22 2012 01:24 GMT
#5310
On March 22 2012 10:21 mrgerry wrote:
Looks like Valve is expanding the beta, just received two beta invites in my inventory but don't see any press release or update talking about it. Hope it isn't a bug -_-

Are you a first wave (November 2) invitee too? I don't know anyone else that got beta invites.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-22 01:42:59
March 22 2012 01:33 GMT
#5311
On March 22 2012 10:22 igotmyown wrote:
On lycan builds: medallion first allows for much faster creeping than vlads. You can use it on golems, just like siege units.
So priority, aside from consumables: qb, sobi->basilius, second sobi->medallion, vlads, magic stick (hard camps and roshan will fill your stick quickly).

No, you still finish Vlad's first. Vlad's contributes more to pushes, and gives you more flexibility in jungling (in particular, allowing you to do the Ancient's easily, which is important) which makes up for the fact that you jungle slower. You still need both to Rosh anyway.

Having the RoR regen to keep you up in the jungle for a few minutes also saves you a bit of consumables money.

EDIT: Actually, I'm fairly certain that Vlad's doesn't even necessarily jungle slower than Medallion, because without Vlad's you can't sustainably farm separate camps from your wolves (Vlad's means you don't take damage doing camps without your wolves, and that your wolves will be able to do an extra camp because they can lifesteal when they're doing 1 camp within 900 range of you). At the point where you finish either, the limiting factor is no longer how fast it takes for you to kill camps, but the time you spend walking around between them.

On March 22 2012 10:22 igotmyown wrote:
Creep camps: the 6/3/3 camp is the best experience, the big troll focuses you but does piercing damage, which keeps your wolves alive. The small satyr camp (4/4/2/2) actually gives similar or more exp than the big satyr camp (6/3/1), and is safer. The big satyr camp you can take at level 1 with double wolf spawns, take out the range creep first to lower dps than the big creep. Golems you can also take out at level 1.

Your first priority should be positioning for the shockwave, which means that you're often going to have to just surround the big Satyr and not worry about the small one. Making sure that his Shockwave only hits 1 person (doable if you position yourself and your wolves correctly) does more to decrease your damage taken than killing the small Satyr does.

On March 22 2012 10:22 igotmyown wrote:
Avoid: panda camps until level 5 (they kick your ass even with double wolf spawns, and you'll have medallion by then so your wolves can solo the big guy). Avoid the wildkin camp, ogre camp, centaur camp, because they give terrible experience. Clearing the small camp twice is a better deal than clearing one of the bad camps. Sometimes at low levels I'll just kill the wildkin/centaur and switch camps. Wildkin will always focus you if you hit it, though you can attack one of his minions without agro.

While these camps are not ideal, practically speaking you will often have to do them because of warding/spawn blocking/whatever.
Moderator
mrgerry
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1508 Posts
March 22 2012 01:34 GMT
#5312
Far from it, been in beta for a few months
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
March 22 2012 01:40 GMT
#5313
So.. those that are in the beta, relog steam, you probably have another Dota 2 key as a gift! Me and 3 friends on vent all just got bonus key's to give out.

goodluck!
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
March 22 2012 01:43 GMT
#5314
yup, i just got 2 extra keys too ....... gona have fun trolling LoL friends with this
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
PHILtheTANK
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1834 Posts
March 22 2012 01:49 GMT
#5315
Yep 2 keys as well. Guess beta is getting even more open!
Jieun <3
Tryhat
Profile Joined March 2012
160 Posts
March 22 2012 01:53 GMT
#5316
On March 22 2012 10:40 crms wrote:
So.. those that are in the beta, relog steam, you probably have another Dota 2 key as a gift! Me and 3 friends on vent all just got bonus key's to give out.

goodluck!


I ain't got shit.
Goshawk.
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United Kingdom5338 Posts
March 22 2012 01:54 GMT
#5317
Nothing for me atm.
Terrafros
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands194 Posts
March 22 2012 02:01 GMT
#5318
Could it be that these gifts have been sent out to the people who were not part of the Hardware survey key list?

I personally have already been showered in too many keys. Got my own through a friend, then won the playdota draft and got an additional three keys(one to give to a friend, which was one of the old hardware survey keys, meaning he got another two).
Xinder
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2269 Posts
March 22 2012 02:27 GMT
#5319
Nope. No extra key for me. Oh well my friend hasn't replaced his comp yet so I'm not in dire need of a key for him until he does.
"Daaayyyy9, King Pussyfoot of NinnyVille"- Day9 while playing Amnesia
Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7596 Posts
March 22 2012 02:44 GMT
#5320
Nothing !!! I really need one for my close friend.....bullocks.
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