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zeehar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)3804 Posts
March 09 2012 03:53 GMT
#3781
speaking of silencer, what are his core items as a carry? i haven't really seen him played on pro streams and i don't know whether his default recommended items are his core.
I AM THE UNIVERSAL CONSTANT
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
March 09 2012 03:57 GMT
#3782
On March 09 2012 12:53 zeehar wrote:
speaking of silencer, what are his core items as a carry? i haven't really seen him played on pro streams and i don't know whether his default recommended items are his core.

force staff allow you to escape battle and is a must. After that sheep and survival items: BKB/Shiva/linken etc... take advantage of your orb attack to add in maximum dmg...

I also have seen the slow staff used on silencer before, gave him a bit HP and a bit of int but i think if you have enough farm just rush straight mystic staff :-/...

Also you could see midas on silencer early on if he has solo lane and good last hit 5 mins into the game.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
LAN-f34r
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand2099 Posts
March 09 2012 04:17 GMT
#3783
Build like you are playing OD. Generally my build is: treads > force > sheep then any item with int or survivability (depending on what is needed). If I'm doing great in lane ill get a midas, if I'm doing terribly I'll get either ghost or atos (ghost if they have auto attacks and not many nukes, atos otherwise).
The only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it. It's through our pane (pain) we window (win though).
Xinder
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2269 Posts
March 09 2012 04:22 GMT
#3784
My Jungle DS needs some work I think. Everyone seems to know that if you let DS ult + vacuum he wins. So they chain CC me til i die. I'm thinking Shivas after aghs would be good choice. Do DS normally get BKB?
"Daaayyyy9, King Pussyfoot of NinnyVille"- Day9 while playing Amnesia
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 04:37:20
March 09 2012 04:32 GMT
#3785
On March 09 2012 13:17 LAN-f34r wrote:
Build like you are playing OD. Generally my build is: treads > force > sheep then any item with int or survivability (depending on what is needed). If I'm doing great in lane ill get a midas, if I'm doing terribly I'll get either ghost or atos (ghost if they have auto attacks and not many nukes, atos otherwise).

Both OD and Silencer should be getting Mekansm as their first core item, as it gives survivability and health regen (which they are both lacking early), and they have the mana to support using the active.

If someone else is getting Mekansm, then get Janggo instead to buffer your stats.

Atos is just a shitty item. It costs more than either Eul's or Force Staff, when in the context of a fight, both of their actives counter Atos. If you want a caster survivability item, there are just loads better options.

On March 09 2012 13:22 Xinder wrote:
My Jungle DS needs some work I think. Everyone seems to know that if you let DS ult + vacuum he wins. So they chain CC me til i die. I'm thinking Shivas after aghs would be good choice. Do DS normally get BKB?

No. Vanguard/Pipe before Aghanim's is common though instead of straight Aghanim's rush--DS is a fantastic Pipe carrier.
Moderator
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
March 09 2012 04:35 GMT
#3786
On March 09 2012 12:53 zeehar wrote:
speaking of silencer, what are his core items as a carry? i haven't really seen him played on pro streams and i don't know whether his default recommended items are his core.


Similar to OD I feel. Mekansm, Forcestaff, BKB, Sheep
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
zeehar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)3804 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 04:39:30
March 09 2012 04:37 GMT
#3787
On March 09 2012 13:32 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 13:17 LAN-f34r wrote:
Build like you are playing OD. Generally my build is: treads > force > sheep then any item with int or survivability (depending on what is needed). If I'm doing great in lane ill get a midas, if I'm doing terribly I'll get either ghost or atos (ghost if they have auto attacks and not many nukes, atos otherwise).

Both OD and Silencer should be getting Mekansm as their first core item, as it gives survivability and health regen (which they are both lacking early), and they have the mana to support using the active.

If someone else is getting Mekansm, then get Janggo instead to buffer your stats.


so you recommend treads > mek/drums > force > scythe?

edit: noticed that's basically a wr build except for the treads... funny how these things happen

also, starting items as a bot dual lane? tango/salve/clarity/branches x3?
I AM THE UNIVERSAL CONSTANT
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
March 09 2012 05:17 GMT
#3788
I swear finding proper xsplit settings to stream is the most frustrating thing. On another note I really like the new update system, this weird betaception 2 patch old patch rehash system was really annoying.
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
March 09 2012 05:47 GMT
#3789
On March 09 2012 13:32 TheYango wrote:


Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 13:22 Xinder wrote:
My Jungle DS needs some work I think. Everyone seems to know that if you let DS ult + vacuum he wins. So they chain CC me til i die. I'm thinking Shivas after aghs would be good choice. Do DS normally get BKB?

No. Vanguard/Pipe before Aghanim's is common though instead of straight Aghanim's rush--DS is a fantastic Pipe carrier.

meh, in pub i just scepter rush... it gives decent stat early on and pub isnt reliable on teamfight... rushing scepter also give you ton of extra time to build refresher late game which is a game changer... every 180 seconds (which is very short late game) you got a guarantee win team fight...
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
Aui_2000
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada435 Posts
March 09 2012 05:50 GMT
#3790
On March 09 2012 12:53 eqez wrote:
- Tinker: Fixed Rearm refreshing level 2 and 3 of Necronomicon.


That must make him the strongest pusher ingame with BoT and Necronomicon. Those small demons fucking rapes, i wanna se a pro go that build. Also Necronomicon gives really nice stats


That means they fixed (as in stopped) necronomicon from refreshing. Rearmable nec book would be ridiculous
follow @aui_2000 // www.twitch.tv/aui_2000
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 06:06:53
March 09 2012 05:57 GMT
#3791
On March 09 2012 14:47 NB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 13:32 TheYango wrote:


On March 09 2012 13:22 Xinder wrote:
My Jungle DS needs some work I think. Everyone seems to know that if you let DS ult + vacuum he wins. So they chain CC me til i die. I'm thinking Shivas after aghs would be good choice. Do DS normally get BKB?

No. Vanguard/Pipe before Aghanim's is common though instead of straight Aghanim's rush--DS is a fantastic Pipe carrier.

meh, in pub i just scepter rush... it gives decent stat early on and pub isnt reliable on teamfight... rushing scepter also give you ton of extra time to build refresher late game which is a game changer... every 180 seconds (which is very short late game) you got a guarantee win team fight...

I'm not saying straight Scepter is bad. Just pointing out that if he's not feeling tanky enough, it's not at all uncommon for DS to buy Vanguard or Hood/Pipe, and that Pipe is much better for DS than BKB.

If you use BKB, you 1) can't Ion Shell yourself, 2) can't Surge yourself, 3) don't have the Pipe shield for all your illusions.

And Refresher is pretty much never a practical item for serious games.
Moderator
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
March 09 2012 06:18 GMT
#3792
On March 09 2012 14:57 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 14:47 NB wrote:
On March 09 2012 13:32 TheYango wrote:


On March 09 2012 13:22 Xinder wrote:
My Jungle DS needs some work I think. Everyone seems to know that if you let DS ult + vacuum he wins. So they chain CC me til i die. I'm thinking Shivas after aghs would be good choice. Do DS normally get BKB?

No. Vanguard/Pipe before Aghanim's is common though instead of straight Aghanim's rush--DS is a fantastic Pipe carrier.

meh, in pub i just scepter rush... it gives decent stat early on and pub isnt reliable on teamfight... rushing scepter also give you ton of extra time to build refresher late game which is a game changer... every 180 seconds (which is very short late game) you got a guarantee win team fight...

I'm not saying straight Scepter is bad. Just pointing out that if he's not feeling tanky enough, it's not at all uncommon for DS to buy Vanguard or Hood/Pipe, and that Pipe is much better for DS than BKB.

If you use BKB, you 1) can't Ion Shell yourself, 2) can't Surge yourself, 3) don't have the Pipe shield for all your illusions.

And Refresher is pretty much never a practical item for serious games.

but to be fair, despite AM, seer scepter refresher could win any tower push/teamfight :-/... its almost imbalance if not yet imba @_@...

my only question right now on DS is should i get vacuum at all early game? the surge is just too crucial but the feeling of suck people up cliff is so addictive xD
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
lozarian
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1043 Posts
March 09 2012 06:38 GMT
#3793
On March 09 2012 13:32 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 13:17 LAN-f34r wrote:
Build like you are playing OD. Generally my build is: treads > force > sheep then any item with int or survivability (depending on what is needed). If I'm doing great in lane ill get a midas, if I'm doing terribly I'll get either ghost or atos (ghost if they have auto attacks and not many nukes, atos otherwise).

Both OD and Silencer should be getting Mekansm as their first core item, as it gives survivability and health regen (which they are both lacking early), and they have the mana to support using the active.

If someone else is getting Mekansm, then get Janggo instead to buffer your stats.

Atos is just a shitty item. It costs more than either Eul's or Force Staff, when in the context of a fight, both of their actives counter Atos. If you want a caster survivability item, there are just loads better options.

Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 13:22 Xinder wrote:
My Jungle DS needs some work I think. Everyone seems to know that if you let DS ult + vacuum he wins. So they chain CC me til i die. I'm thinking Shivas after aghs would be good choice. Do DS normally get BKB?

No. Vanguard/Pipe before Aghanim's is common though instead of straight Aghanim's rush--DS is a fantastic Pipe carrier.


Atos isn't the best item to rush - but it's not a bad item by any means. Personally for silencer I tend to go boots -> vitality -> treads -> force staff -> decide to get either atos or heart. The pile of early hp is all silencer really needs to be scary, but he really needs a force before making an atos for sure. If no-one else is making a mek, get a mek, but don't underestimate raw hp. With vita and str treads silencer has a good 1200 hp at least (level 7 stats) which shouldn't be underestimated.
For every battle honour a thousand heroes die alone, unsung, and unremembered.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 07:04:39
March 09 2012 06:45 GMT
#3794
Pipe is way too good to pass up on DS, also I prefer sheep or shivas over refresher.
DS is also a relativly fast farmer, and getting that pipe quickly will impact the game by alot aswell as making him fairly tanky.
WriterXiao8~~
Aui_2000
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada435 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 06:59:22
March 09 2012 06:58 GMT
#3795
I really don't like pipe on silencer. It's really expensive for the direct benefits to silencer it gives, and it makes silencer pretty much only useful for aura/ult, thereby disregarding his potential for high range pure damage.

Mek only the other hand gives 345 hp, ~8 armour, some ias, some regen and some damage and imo should be deferred to be built on silencer pretty much every game--not to mention its great buildup. He really needs that armour all game long and definitely has the mana pool to support it (especially if you skip/only get low curse level).

For a carry silencer, you should probably be finding a way to skip curse completely, and going (midas if possible/nulls) treads mek forcestaff guinsoo. Please never go vanguard on silencer.

edit: poster above meant on ds. My bad. You should probably not rush aghs on ds because your images don't do that much early+it requires you to clump during a team fight.

Although some people do like vanguard pipe on sil which is sort of not good
follow @aui_2000 // www.twitch.tv/aui_2000
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
March 09 2012 07:08 GMT
#3796
On March 09 2012 15:58 Validity wrote:
I really don't like pipe on silencer. It's really expensive for the direct benefits to silencer it gives, and it makes silencer pretty much only useful for aura/ult, thereby disregarding his potential for high range pure damage.

Mek only the other hand gives 345 hp, ~8 armour, some ias, some regen and some damage and imo should be deferred to be built on silencer pretty much every game--not to mention its great buildup. He really needs that armour all game long and definitely has the mana pool to support it (especially if you skip/only get low curse level).

For a carry silencer, you should probably be finding a way to skip curse completely, and going (midas if possible/nulls) treads mek forcestaff guinsoo. Please never go vanguard on silencer.

edit: poster above meant on ds. My bad. You should probably not rush aghs on ds because your images don't do that much early+it requires you to clump during a team fight.

Although some people do like vanguard pipe on sil which is sort of not good

there are 2 roles that a silencer could take in a team: Healing bitch or carry. Often in competitive game you see him as healing bitch with mek and pipe simply bc his aura is just too amazing to shut down combo such as SK or rashta. Also his 1st skill is priceless to suck out mana out of a trilane containing heroes such as VS or ES.

Carry silencer is mostly seen in pub bc you have more room to wiggle around to farm as well as you dont have to skill Q bc there are no trilane to shut down.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
March 09 2012 07:17 GMT
#3797
On March 09 2012 15:38 lozarian wrote:
Atos isn't the best item to rush - but it's not a bad item by any means. Personally for silencer I tend to go boots -> vitality -> treads -> force staff -> decide to get either atos or heart. The pile of early hp is all silencer really needs to be scary, but he really needs a force before making an atos for sure. If no-one else is making a mek, get a mek, but don't underestimate raw hp. With vita and str treads silencer has a good 1200 hp at least (level 7 stats) which shouldn't be underestimated.

Vit Booster is fine, but committing 2k gold in Staffs of Wizardry isn't worth the active or the auto-build stats. I'd rather be 2k gold closer to Sheepstick than have the Atos active.
Moderator
hauton
Profile Joined March 2009
Hong Kong743 Posts
March 09 2012 07:39 GMT
#3798
Force Staff's utility > Atos' stats
keep it up, youll either be famous or homeless one day
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
March 09 2012 08:00 GMT
#3799
On March 09 2012 16:39 hauton wrote:
Force Staff's utility > Atos' stats

Agreed with this
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
lozarian
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1043 Posts
March 09 2012 08:23 GMT
#3800
So do I, which is why I say get it first - but atos' buildup is good, there's no denying that. Getting the early vit booster lets you choose to go atos if it looks like it'll help a lot.

Like most things, it's a situational item, but it can be completely backbreaking when it's useful.
For every battle honour a thousand heroes die alone, unsung, and unremembered.
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