EPTThe post-TI3 Roster Shuffle thread - Page 74
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BreafingBread
Brazil24 Posts
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ShiroKaisen
United States1082 Posts
On August 19 2013 09:59 BreafingBread wrote: Am I getting paranoid or is it just a coincidence that the only one on Liquid without his picture in the twitter backgroung is Korok? I'd say Korok leaving TL is one of the most likely rumours currently circulating. | ||
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Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
On August 19 2013 09:44 SnowfaLL wrote: I find it laughable you would even come to that conclusion. NO one here is "wallowing in self pity wishing they could get noticed just by ladder" - that would be a useless desire in this game. Of course if you want to get noticed, you have to play ixdl and become known (one way or another by outrageous raging and bad manners) - and DEFINITELY need to play more than 10 hours a week like I do. Theres no middle ground in dota. If you don't have the time to find a consistent 5-stack, (some people have jobs, and other hobbies than gaming, believe it or not) - theres no way to get competitive gameplay in, as public MM right now is a blowout one way or another every game. Where is the fun for casual "serious" players? I may only play 10 hours a week, but I dont wanna have to deal with feeders and abandons or people all randoming in RD/AP when the other team picks PL/Furion/KOTL/etc. But to bring this back full circle to my point; theres no good support players available in NA because theres no developmental system in place. Low-level inhouse leagues help, but so does a proper matchmaking system. Excuse me I thought this thread was about the post TI3 roster shuffle which tangentially relates to up and coming talent. Your problems with match making have literally nothing to do with this thread and my comments were in no way aimed at someone who wishes they could be a "serious" casual. They were aimed at people crying that they can't get noticed because Dota 2 doesn't have a "gm" or "challenger" league and because of this they are forever unable to be noticed. Which is complete nonsense. I could care less about your match making experience or lack of friends to stack with... which isn't even tangentially related to this thread so I'm not sure why you would even bring it up. | ||
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OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
On August 19 2013 09:33 Kuroeeah wrote: Demon might be unstable but he's certainly not a bad player as you're making him out to be nor does Puppey hate Demon, he just doesn't care for him. I dont see ppy leaving na'vi either, he's too instrumental to their success and he gets payed. When a player buys a blink dagger on QoP in a league match he doesn't have the mindset to win and shouldn't be on any team that actually cares. He might make a neato play from time to time, but generally that neato play is just that, its not a game winning play and more often than not he flushes the entire team's chances of winning down the toilet trying to be cute. EG is Fear's team and I think he's sick of the stupid bullshit mindsets of the other people on the team. He's got the EG money on his side, he's got the skill and mindset to go places, but why carry dead weight? Even if you're his friend there's no reason to be subjected to the shit that comes with him being on your team. Demon can be a pubstar, or a joker, or a streamer all day long but none of that helps EG win. If he was truly "embarrassed" by not getting into TI3 and not going as even an observer you'd think his attitude towards everything would have turned 180 degrees to show he's as serious as a heart attack about winning. I can't see a team getting anywhere with him. He needs to mature as a person and a player. Mechanically he's alright, he knows how to juke like a maniac, but that's not going to cut it to get into TI4 let alone place deep. He's got a lot of growing up to do to be a great. | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On August 19 2013 09:28 Kuroeeah wrote: Bulldog is the easiest example of a relatively unknown player that became big through a matchmaking game. I'm pretty sure Sing met and befriended Bamboe through a pub game which is how the later got his start and so on. I mean there are few instances where players are found through the current matchmaking system and if you're high enough in the system than you will inevitably come across a few pro players here and there (even in the NA region). I mean the system has it's flaws but some people here are arguing that it doesn't exist or work at all which is not true. As far as Bamboe goes, Bamboe was a Dota 1 player. | ||
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sirpsychosexy
United States33 Posts
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
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misirlou
Portugal3238 Posts
On August 19 2013 08:32 thebig1 wrote: The problem with enduring a situation like that is that it's soul draining. Sure it's possible to do for a while, but eventually a time comes when the fun you get out of the game is no longer enough to keep you going, and it game becomes a chore. If it's no longer enjoyable, you want out, and quit. That's something that happens all the time, and is not confined to dota at all. It is TECHNICALLY possible to become noticed in pub play (or it was in CS at least), but yes it is incredibly unlikely, doesn't really work and requires way too much luck to be relied upon. Honestly, the best method is probably to fall back to the old tiered league systems. Yes, it's a shitfest at the lower levels, and a nightmare to organize, but it gives some structure to things. The 'better' amateur teams poach players from the worse ones, and given enough time the cream tends to rise to the top. Player oriented matchmaking ladders or pickup leagues may be a lot of fun, but it's NOT a good way to develop talent. You need people playing together as a team, and trying to develop their roles, even if the average team only lasts a few months before reforming. Pickup leagues lead to screwing around. Pros don't take it seriously, and players who get into games with them tend to go into super tryhard mode because 'It might be there big chance!'. Edit: Think ADL, but way way way way way more teams. Actually... what I'm describing is what the Koreans are doing isn't it? Having played both CS and LoL here is my personal experience and opinion: on CS players would sometimes get noticed on pubs and form a 5 player team (very rarely or never were they found and join a S or A tier team). These 5 guys would proceed to IRC looking for mixes and pcw, eventually get into some good matches and get noticed there. If not, CS was huge at lan cafes and on our local lan we had a monthly tournament which would get some local teams and 1 or 2 S teams and players did get noticed a lot there. LoL ladder help form a lot of the pro teams today, mostly people would go solo queue, get a good partner in a game, start duoing, then get 3 more players going and form a team. This is pretty much how TSM and CLG started. Having just started playing DotA I have 0 idea how rising teams are formed or how pros matchup but from my personal learning experience, being constantly matched with guys that are way over my level over the course of my first 50 games is not a fun experience | ||
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thebig1
248 Posts
On August 19 2013 10:53 misirlou wrote: Having played both CS and LoL here is my personal experience and opinion: on CS players would sometimes get noticed on pubs and form a 5 player team (very rarely or never were they found and join a S or A tier team). These 5 guys would proceed to IRC looking for mixes and pcw, eventually get into some good matches and get noticed there. If not, CS was huge at lan cafes and on our local lan we had a monthly tournament which would get some local teams and 1 or 2 S teams and players did get noticed a lot there. LoL ladder help form a lot of the pro teams today, mostly people would go solo queue, get a good partner in a game, start duoing, then get 3 more players going and form a team. This is pretty much how TSM and CLG started. Having just started playing DotA I have 0 idea how rising teams are formed or how pros matchup but from my personal learning experience, being constantly matched with guys that are way over my level over the course of my first 50 games is not a fun experience Obviously it's been a few years, I didn't play that much beta, and it was my friends and not myself who played with those guys the most, but I'm pretty sure TSM was just a group of guys who knew each other from DotA. They joined together to form a community site to try to be the community center of LoL. CLG was born when some of the group of guys who played with them had a falling out and went to make their own competing community site, and try to draw their own stream viewers. This was also either during the beta, or right after the game came out, when the community was tiny in comparison to the way it is now. I might be a little off on that time frame though, as I had already basically quit LoL at that point, and only really made appearances when friends were trying to play in houses on streams to get e-famous. Either way, I don't think it's fair to say that they formed from pubbing. At the very least the ladder system DEFINITELY wasn't in the game at the time and was added MUCH MUCH later. I'd say the DotA process is the exact same as process you described for LoL, albeit slightly less official. There are less defined goals, where the jump from pubbing to TI is less defined, that's all. Edit: I guess I should also note: The rated ladder system was something that people bitched about not existing in LoL for quite a while, for the same reason people bitch about it not existing in DotA. They wanted to see ranking so it could become more competitive, matchmaking could be better, they would have an easier time finding like minded people to play with, etc, etc etc. It was (obviously) eventually added, and nothing really changed. It didn't give people what they expected it to. Especially the competitive players. For a very long time the only thing that really came out of it was a whole lot of dick waving, which even Riot has tried to curb by changing the system a number of times. You could argue that nothing has come out of it still. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
TC is a good player, he's safe, he's solid and he overall plays well. That's it though. He basically plays like a Chinese carry just.. worse. However, it's better than most west carries because he doesn't do outright THROW-y stuff. Although his indecision and passiveness has also cost TL. I feel he's a poor man's china carry with little to confidence on LAN. He had 2 great games at TI where he really stood out but other than that I felt liquid (as a whole) was very unsure of themselves and unconfident in many spots. Liquid needs real leadership, no democracy in-game as it leads to too much indecision and wishy-washy play. TL needs more balls in games. They literally lost 3-4 games in group stages because they had little to no direction and made bad decisions. They have very talented players but some of their drafting and general decision making leaves a lot to be desired. | ||
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SnowfaLL
Canada730 Posts
On August 19 2013 11:17 crms wrote: I'm not sold on TC and I feel I'm the only one. Maybe it's just bias because we're on TL site, I'm not sure. I like TC, I'm a rabid TL fanboy but post-ti3 there were a lot of things I saw in the team that I wish I didn't. ;( TC is a good player, he's safe, he's solid and he overall plays well. That's it though. He basically plays like a Chinese carry just.. worse. However, it's better than most west carries because he doesn't do outright THROW-y stuff. Although his indecision and passiveness has also cost TL. I feel he's a poor man's china carry with little to confidence on LAN. He had 2 great games at TI where he really stood out but other than that I felt liquid (as a whole) was very unsure of themselves and unconfident in many spots. Liquid needs real leadership, no democracy in-game as it leads to too much indecision and wishy-washy play. TL needs more balls in games. They literally lost 3-4 games in group stages because they had little to no direction and made bad decisions. They have very talented players but some of their drafting and general decision making leaves a lot to be desired. I agree but thats not what TC is always like; remember back to feb/march when they were dominating everyone, TC was a beast. So I dont think its necessarily him not being capable, its just the situation they were in lately, issues with leadership and control. Honestly I think they should go back to being run by FLUFF, hes a leader and creative too, if he would just be less harsh on himself. They had 2 months of pure dominance with new strats that changed the meta, but as soon as they started forcing things with TC as drafter, it seemed to all fall apart. I love Korok but clearly he had an issue with the direction/leadership and you need everyone being on the same page. I just hope its FLUFF wanting TC to try drafting out because he felt pressure, rather than TC wanting more control. If the prior is the case, maybe management can just tell FLUFF to try it 100% himself again. | ||
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SnowfaLL
Canada730 Posts
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DDie
Brazil2369 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QZnj0zC.png) https://twitter.com/DendiBoss/status/368900902544879616/photo/1 | ||
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thebig1
248 Posts
On August 19 2013 11:57 DDie wrote: Ok guys, please, remain seated and don't panic. Ahh, what was that, page 40? Those were good times. Those heady days of yore. | ||
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DDie
Brazil2369 Posts
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
On August 19 2013 11:57 DDie wrote: Ok guys, please, remain seated and don't panic. + Show Spoiler + https://twitter.com/DendiBoss/status/368900902544879616/photo/1 He also says not to take anything in his twitter seriously aside from the Seahawks posts. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
On August 19 2013 11:17 crms wrote: I'm not sold on TC and I feel I'm the only one. Maybe it's just bias because we're on TL site, I'm not sure. I like TC, I'm a rabid TL fanboy but post-ti3 there were a lot of things I saw in the team that I wish I didn't. ;( TC is a good player, he's safe, he's solid and he overall plays well. That's it though. He basically plays like a Chinese carry just.. worse. However, it's better than most west carries because he doesn't do outright THROW-y stuff. Although his indecision and passiveness has also cost TL. I feel he's a poor man's china carry with little to confidence on LAN. He had 2 great games at TI where he really stood out but other than that I felt liquid (as a whole) was very unsure of themselves and unconfident in many spots. Liquid needs real leadership, no democracy in-game as it leads to too much indecision and wishy-washy play. TL needs more balls in games. They literally lost 3-4 games in group stages because they had little to no direction and made bad decisions. They have very talented players but some of their drafting and general decision making leaves a lot to be desired. TC on weaver man. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
Is he the one with the worst Time Lapses imaginable? Or was that Korok? | ||
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
On August 19 2013 12:19 WolfintheSheep wrote: Is he the one with the worst Time Lapses imaginable? Or was that Korok? it was TC | ||
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