|
On August 30 2013 13:00 LDdota wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 12:50 BurningSera wrote:
What a pile of sh*t from King, I have no trust in ACE at all and seeing how people flame him so badly in his weibo reply, I am not the only who think the same. How is what he said a pile of shit? Of course people are flaming, it's enraged fans who want results and need someone to blame after how TI3 went.
No, as much as enraged fans who blame them for TI3, there are people who actually seen this coming and warned ACE, and then you take a look of the actions that they took so far, no adjustment for the lack of tournament pre-TI3 (obviously PW is responsible for the delay of the beta in china but let's be honest blaming them is just as stupid as blaming ACE BUT ACE could have reacted better and obviously people is going to call them lol-biased or spending too much effort on lol. which is true to certain extend) and technically suppressing tournaments even to the likes like G1 and not to mention that he is basically a dictator in their china dota (streaming) circle.
So it is a big pile of shit, he is just repeating all the stuffs that he said before (seriously do people really not know the whole point of the existence of ACE by now), putting up some PR words/being political correct etc, dodging on how would he solve the issues and still haven't addressed the current criticisms on ACE (mainly due to the facts they have so many restrictions on dota teams but none to lol teams).
|
On August 30 2013 13:03 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 12:50 BurningSera wrote:
What a pile of sh*t from King, I have no trust in ACE at all and seeing how people flame him so badly in his weibo reply, I am not the only who think the same. Care to explain the logic behind your post? I think his post was well-thought out and had good logic in it. It's not an easy solution if you want to "regulate" esports, and while you can argue that eSports doesn't need a regulatory body, there are also arguments that regulating eSports adds credibility for it and will help it move into the next stage of its growth.
The point being is that the stuffs that he said are well known and have been repeated by him for several times by now, so if you just removed all of the known stuffs the rest are pure PR words/being political corrected, we still don't see any real solution or adjustment to the current system.
|
They did react once the problems began to surface. Why do you think the tier 1 teams were permitted to participate in Redbull ECL? It's because ACE changed their policies. Also to say that nobody knows why ACE exists is completely silly, he explicitly explains some of their main purposes: to protect teams from player poaching, to ensure that the players are treated fairly by the teams and that teams have to honor their contracts with the players, and perhaps most importantly, to set standards for what competitions teams can compete in so that they do not devalue their own brands.
Sure, we all agree their regulations were too strict originally, but they did make adjustments and it's just ignorant to say the Chinese teams didn't get any practice going into TI3. There was a period over Chinese New Year and the month or so after it where the scene was quiet, but D2SL, Redbull ECL, and Alienware Cup all provided plenty of solid practice time for all the teams in a 1.5 month stretch heading into TI3, and as long as teams are able to have a similar amount of play to that stretch moving forward, I think that's quite sufficient. Grinding 3-5 official matches every single day is no better than playing 1 match every few days; you need some time to scrim and develop new strategies, and burnout can be just as destructive as lack of preparation.
Another very real issue for the Chinese scene is that their internet connection to the SEA server clusters seems to have degraded over the past 6 months. It used to be around the end of last year / beginning of this year that they all got decent ping to Singapore servers and were able to practice against the SEA teams, which is why you saw both SEA / Chinese players all queuing SEA nearly exclusively. However, nowadays their pings are way too high, which is why they refused to scrim Zenith, Orange, & MUFC heading into TI3 and were only practicing against each other.
Hopefully these routing issues can be resolved, as I think it would be very helpful for both scenes to be able to train against each other. Otherwise, we can only hope the Chinese teams will be able to bring in some outside teams to their events and/or travel to other outside events (which seems like a stretch now but could become possible if the prizepools of such events are sufficiently large and/or travel/accommodations are covered).
|
On August 30 2013 08:36 SnowfaLL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 08:11 fascistfromhell wrote:
I'll be quite happy if Liquid gets qojqva and wts. ixmike had to go.
I wonder what EG is going to do. Korok, Brax, 1437, Universe, Fogged...So many good players "available". What would be even better is if wts starts doing the drafting, or least collaborates with fluff on it. I really think TC should focus on just playing. That would be awesome. I agree, mike doesnt fit the Liquid mold at all, just watching his stream today made me wonder how this guys personality ever got Nazgul's approval.. constant raging, insults,.. not good.
I think you're being too hasty placing all the blame on TC's draft when it is obvious by now that there were issues within the team, mainly revolving around playstyle but also around trust (do I let this player play this hero against LGD/iG/Alliance). Besides, the input from Fluff was defnitely still there, and drafting is almost always a team effort. One particular thing that irked me was that they were firstbanning Chen every time, never picking it for themselves when it'd have been easy to get against many teams who don't really play that hero, and Fluff certainly is capable of playing a wonderful Chen. Yet they didn't seem confident running the style that Chen fits into, even though they have run it succesfully many times in the past.
In the end you could say TC was partly to blame for their drafting problems but so was the rest of the team. A drafter has to work with what his team is confident to play.
Regarding mike, he has changed for the worse recently. He's been much more active on twitter than he was before, and become overall more 'aggressive'. Perhaps he has known for a good while that he would be leaving and hasn't held back as much as a result. I can't say I'd blame him if that were the case.
|
Why can't people accept the fact that the Chinese before G-1/Alienware were just too arrogant and did not care about the Western teams at all. I knew iG will have problems in G-1 when I saw Chuan shittalk some Western teams on his stream when his viewers asked about his opinion about those teams.
They knew they were really behind when Navi put the nail in the coffin at Alienware and they were just too late to react to the current trend in the game. You can see iG picked Timbersaw and didn't use him at his full potential at all in TI3. I'm not trying to flame them but this is the fact and TI3 was a huge lesson for them not to look down on their opponents again. The issues about ACE are just a minor issues compared to this really. Look at Orange in TI3, they did better than the Chinese because they studied the new trend like Ursa to counter LS/DK, and they had their good signature picks like Slardar/Sand King. They were being more innovative and adaptive than any Chinese and it paid off.
When the Chinese stop thinking they're Korean in Starcraft, then I think they can fight back. It's obvious that most of them have the skills to be the best, they just need the better attitude. More game play is not going to change anything if their attitudes remain the same.
|
On August 30 2013 10:38 Seraphic wrote:I'm surprised no one had said anything about this. ZeroGravity (Na'VI's manager) posted on Twitter that he'll be announcing something next week. And GosuGamers pointed out that Na'Vi's StarLadder roster has AA on it, Minus Funn1k and KuroKy. http://dota2.starladder.tv/team/squad/3480I think this might actually be happening. But why Funn1k?  Interesting :o Random wild speculation guess Funn1k back to Empire and umm Mag~ to NaVi XD
|
How come the chinese need some mystic organizations that tells them in what tournaments they are allowed to play and in which they are not, but western teams get along just fine?
|
United Kingdom38255 Posts
|
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On August 30 2013 13:44 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 13:03 pdd wrote:On August 30 2013 12:50 BurningSera wrote:
What a pile of sh*t from King, I have no trust in ACE at all and seeing how people flame him so badly in his weibo reply, I am not the only who think the same. Care to explain the logic behind your post? I think his post was well-thought out and had good logic in it. It's not an easy solution if you want to "regulate" esports, and while you can argue that eSports doesn't need a regulatory body, there are also arguments that regulating eSports adds credibility for it and will help it move into the next stage of its growth. The point being is that the stuffs that he said are well known and have been repeated by him for several times by now, so if you just removed all of the known stuffs the rest are pure PR words/being political corrected, we still don't see any real solution or adjustment to the current system. So mad. If you don't see any real adjustments then you're not paying attention. As has probably already been pointed out, ACE changed a lot of their restrictions several months ago. And it did make a difference.
That doesn't mean that they changed it and all the sudden Chinese scene is like EU where we have only 10-20k leagues and 20-40k Lans running 24/7 with teams playing official matches every day. And it will never turn into that.
Because as I've pointed out for months, the intentions of ACE make sense. But their rules were too strict given the situation that Dota was in pre-release in China, before closed beta even.On August 30 2013 19:18 legor wrote:
How come the chinese need some mystic organizations that tells them in what tournaments they are allowed to play and in which they are not, but western teams get along just fine? Western teams don't get along fine. There's a reason tournaments in Dota are so small in comparison to the viewership. We have a lot of them, but we don't have big high quality tournaments.
This is because there is no regulation, I could personally host a tournament and get the best teams in the west to play in it. So why would a big organisation make a real investment? It cheapens the teams and the tournaments.
|
|
|
I'm going to wait for something a mite more official to put it in the OP but its sad that ZSMJ isn't going to be playing anymore
|
On August 30 2013 19:18 legor wrote:
How come the chinese need some mystic organizations that tells them in what tournaments they are allowed to play and in which they are not, but western teams get along just fine?
I believe it's because Dota in China is a real job that the player will get a real monthly salary from the team besides the money from the tournament. So many aspects of dota in China have to be more organized. And that's why they have ACE as the main controller. If you're European, think of it as football clubs in Europe and ACE is EUFA and you should get a better picture of its existence.
You'll never see a tournament overlapping with the other tournaments in China because of ACE, unlike the Western that there can be 3 tournaments going on at the same time and teams have to give a def-win or be delayed for the match because they were playing in the other tournament. The other good part about this is they organized more LAN tournaments which is better for the player and the game. On the other hand it takes so much time and money to prepare for the event and ended up having only few tournaments for the players to play.
|
Vg.yapphets please. One can deam
|
On August 30 2013 19:18 legor wrote:
How come the chinese need some mystic organizations that tells them in what tournaments they are allowed to play and in which they are not, but western teams get along just fine?
There was the same debate in Starcraft (both Starcrafts as a matter of fact), and the outcome is always the same imo. Only with a proper structure, organization, and an authority above that of the individual teams and organizations can you reach a point where you have actual major leagues and major sponsorships.
The western teams aren't really doing fine. You don't go very far as a scene based on Razer sponsorships and random $10-20k online leagues, and that's as far as you can go by having everything open and free and letting all teams and organizers do what they want, when they want, and how they want it.
I personally would love to see ACE succeed in what they seem to want to do in China. It's never a popular thing to impose rules and restrictions, but in the end it does have the most potential to deliver the best product.
|
On August 30 2013 14:02 LDdota wrote:Grinding 3-5 official matches every single day is no better than playing 1 match every few days; you need some time to scrim and develop new strategies, and burnout can be just as destructive as lack of preparation.
Do you really want to test new strat in a big league and each lost match could mean you not getting into the playoffs, when you have around 10 matches per 2 months? REALLY? You seems to not getting it LD, thats why EU went so ahead strategy-wise - they had tons of small events to test shit. Scrims mean nothing, nothing at all, you don't risk anything, you don't put effort into this, i'm surprised how you're not getting it. EU teams simply used small online events as scrims.
|
On August 30 2013 19:07 yawnoC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 10:38 Seraphic wrote:I'm surprised no one had said anything about this. ZeroGravity (Na'VI's manager) posted on Twitter that he'll be announcing something next week. And GosuGamers pointed out that Na'Vi's StarLadder roster has AA on it, Minus Funn1k and KuroKy. http://dota2.starladder.tv/team/squad/3480I think this might actually be happening. But why Funn1k? Interesting :o Random wild speculation guess Funn1k back to Empire and umm Mag~ to NaVi XD
Don't get why they are removing funnik.. unless they have a way better offlaner incoming and from what i saw xboct dendi and funnik were all pretty good friends.
|
opterown
Australia54784 Posts
^ those small online events are still important to win since apart from TI3 there is only a very small amount of prizewinnings from western events, and i can't imagine salaries being anything decent
|
On August 30 2013 20:21 opterown wrote:
^ those small online events are still important to win since apart from TI3 there is only a very small amount of prizewinnings from western events, and i can't imagine salaries being anything decent
For teams like Alliance and Navi the salaries are probably really good, the other teams are probably around 500-1k dollars a month.
|
opterown
Australia54784 Posts
yeah other than those two i meant. $500 per month is not... livable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
