|
United Kingdom24425 Posts
EDIT: Actually, I'd really like to see valve build a better tournament system from the participant's point of view (more automated, like old bnet automatic tournaments) that organizations like MLG could use to run qualifiers like this and sell tickets to not only watch but to participate in as well, without having to be in personal contact with players etc. Not that personal contact is bad you understand just that it makes stuff much more complicated in general. That would be cool but I think there might be legal complications in some countries. Allowing people to pay an entrance fee, play, win a prize. It's an issue if dealing with real money.
MTG for example don't straight up allow you to take out the "money" you earn from playing MTGO.
You buy 'tickets', use tickets to play tournaments. Then you win tickets and packs. But if you want to sell those you have to do it through third parties.
|
Navi will provide good games for sure 
|
On September 18 2013 03:03 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +EDIT: Actually, I'd really like to see valve build a better tournament system from the participant's point of view (more automated, like old bnet automatic tournaments) that organizations like MLG could use to run qualifiers like this and sell tickets to not only watch but to participate in as well, without having to be in personal contact with players etc. Not that personal contact is bad you understand just that it makes stuff much more complicated in general. That would be cool but I think there might be legal complications in some countries. Allowing people to pay an entrance fee, play, win a prize. Is an issue if dealing with real money.
That is a huge thing that can't be handled by Valve. Countries like Japan, China and Korea all have super specific laws for dealing with prizes through digital medium.
|
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 18 2013 03:06 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 03:03 teapoted wrote:EDIT: Actually, I'd really like to see valve build a better tournament system from the participant's point of view (more automated, like old bnet automatic tournaments) that organizations like MLG could use to run qualifiers like this and sell tickets to not only watch but to participate in as well, without having to be in personal contact with players etc. Not that personal contact is bad you understand just that it makes stuff much more complicated in general. That would be cool but I think there might be legal complications in some countries. Allowing people to pay an entrance fee, play, win a prize. Is an issue if dealing with real money. That is a huge thing that can't be handled by Valve. Countries like Japan, China and Korea all have super specific laws for dealing with prizes through digital medium. Yeah that's partly what I'm referring to, it's a bit of a minefield.
|
On September 18 2013 03:06 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 03:03 teapoted wrote:EDIT: Actually, I'd really like to see valve build a better tournament system from the participant's point of view (more automated, like old bnet automatic tournaments) that organizations like MLG could use to run qualifiers like this and sell tickets to not only watch but to participate in as well, without having to be in personal contact with players etc. Not that personal contact is bad you understand just that it makes stuff much more complicated in general. That would be cool but I think there might be legal complications in some countries. Allowing people to pay an entrance fee, play, win a prize. Is an issue if dealing with real money. That is a huge thing that can't be handled by Valve. Countries like Japan, China and Korea all have super specific laws for dealing with prizes through digital medium.
Well, those are all the countries that valve is getting represented in by 3rd parties so I'm assuming valve could exclude their clients pretty sucessfully.
However I'll admit that yes it would be fairly complex. If it was simple I'm assuming valve would have already done it (because lets be honest, they are a hell of a lot smarter than most of the internet, especially when it comes to business and making money). I'm not sure how well valve can avoid stuff by using "Steam Wallet" instead of "actual money" but probably not as well as you'd hope.
Of course, payout would still be awkward since nobody wants $2,000 in their steam wallet lol.
|
On September 18 2013 01:36 ShiroKaisen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 01:31 Shaella wrote:On September 18 2013 01:28 teddyoojo wrote:
if u think kaipi isnt a tier1 team then sorry, you dont have much clue about dota In the past they've pretty consistently lost against Tier 1 teams Don't get me wrong, they're obviously better than most t2 teams, but they're at this weird spot where they're just below the top t1 teams. I don't think you can really argue that Kaipi is objectively worse than Fnatic, TL, or EG - at least in their pre-TI3 forms. Kaipi defeated every top team outside of Na'vi in The Defense 4, and Kaipi wins virtually every online cup they join, they were top 4 (10-5) in last Starladder group stage and are currently 5-1 in this one, and even though they fakenicked to do it, they qualified for the EMS LAN finals over EG. TL played way above expectations at TI3 and were an extremely good team, but nothing EG or Fnatic have done recently makes it possible to really claim they're "better" than Kaipi. KP has a winning record against both teams.
Anybody who's rational and follows Dota would agree that KP is currently playing better than Fnatic (and I'm a Fnatic fan). But as many people have noted, MLG can't risk inviting a team that has a record of drama, frequent roster changes, and not showing up for LAN events when they were supposed to. Until they prove they can (eg attending this season of Starladder would be a start), they won't be taken too seriously when it comes to invites.
|
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 18 2013 03:09 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 03:06 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 03:03 teapoted wrote:EDIT: Actually, I'd really like to see valve build a better tournament system from the participant's point of view (more automated, like old bnet automatic tournaments) that organizations like MLG could use to run qualifiers like this and sell tickets to not only watch but to participate in as well, without having to be in personal contact with players etc. Not that personal contact is bad you understand just that it makes stuff much more complicated in general. That would be cool but I think there might be legal complications in some countries. Allowing people to pay an entrance fee, play, win a prize. Is an issue if dealing with real money. That is a huge thing that can't be handled by Valve. Countries like Japan, China and Korea all have super specific laws for dealing with prizes through digital medium. Well, those are all the countries that valve is getting represented in by 3rd parties so I'm assuming valve could exclude their clients pretty sucessfully. However I'll admit that yes it would be fairly complex. If it was simple I'm assuming valve would have already done it (because lets be honest, they are a hell of a lot smarter than most of the internet, especially when it comes to business and making money). I'm not sure how well valve can avoid stuff by using "Steam Wallet" instead of "actual money" but probably not as well as you'd hope. Of course, payout would still be awkward since nobody wants $2,000 in their steam wallet lol. I don't think you can have more than $200 anyway.
|
On September 18 2013 03:11 deroth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 01:36 ShiroKaisen wrote:On September 18 2013 01:31 Shaella wrote:On September 18 2013 01:28 teddyoojo wrote:
if u think kaipi isnt a tier1 team then sorry, you dont have much clue about dota In the past they've pretty consistently lost against Tier 1 teams Don't get me wrong, they're obviously better than most t2 teams, but they're at this weird spot where they're just below the top t1 teams. I don't think you can really argue that Kaipi is objectively worse than Fnatic, TL, or EG - at least in their pre-TI3 forms. Kaipi defeated every top team outside of Na'vi in The Defense 4, and Kaipi wins virtually every online cup they join, they were top 4 (10-5) in last Starladder group stage and are currently 5-1 in this one, and even though they fakenicked to do it, they qualified for the EMS LAN finals over EG. TL played way above expectations at TI3 and were an extremely good team, but nothing EG or Fnatic have done recently makes it possible to really claim they're "better" than Kaipi. KP has a winning record against both teams. Anybody who's rational and follows Dota would agree that KP is currently playing better than Fnatic (and I'm a Fnatic fan). But as many people have noted, MLG can't risk inviting a team that has a record of drama, frequent roster changes, and not showing up for LAN events when they were supposed to. Until they prove they can (eg attending this season of Starladder would be a start), they won't be taken too seriously when it comes to invites.
compared to the other big teams they have very little roster drama, CWM in and out, and RTZ out were the only real drama changes and roster changes.
i don't know what drama you're pulling up against them so please expand upon that.
the thing im struggling to see here is how is a tier 1.5 team supposed to break into this magical tier 1 area when it's currently occupied by stale teams that are getting the invites based on reasons outside of their dota playing abilities
|
This thread is a disaster. I thought I had gotten away from the whiners and esports experts who know how to run the perfect tournament when I stopped visiting the sc2 section. I'm super excited for everything mlg is looking to do with dota! Can't wait for novemeber!
|
On September 18 2013 03:16 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 03:11 deroth wrote:On September 18 2013 01:36 ShiroKaisen wrote:On September 18 2013 01:31 Shaella wrote:On September 18 2013 01:28 teddyoojo wrote:
if u think kaipi isnt a tier1 team then sorry, you dont have much clue about dota In the past they've pretty consistently lost against Tier 1 teams Don't get me wrong, they're obviously better than most t2 teams, but they're at this weird spot where they're just below the top t1 teams. I don't think you can really argue that Kaipi is objectively worse than Fnatic, TL, or EG - at least in their pre-TI3 forms. Kaipi defeated every top team outside of Na'vi in The Defense 4, and Kaipi wins virtually every online cup they join, they were top 4 (10-5) in last Starladder group stage and are currently 5-1 in this one, and even though they fakenicked to do it, they qualified for the EMS LAN finals over EG. TL played way above expectations at TI3 and were an extremely good team, but nothing EG or Fnatic have done recently makes it possible to really claim they're "better" than Kaipi. KP has a winning record against both teams. Anybody who's rational and follows Dota would agree that KP is currently playing better than Fnatic (and I'm a Fnatic fan). But as many people have noted, MLG can't risk inviting a team that has a record of drama, frequent roster changes, and not showing up for LAN events when they were supposed to. Until they prove they can (eg attending this season of Starladder would be a start), they won't be taken too seriously when it comes to invites. compared to the other big teams they have very little roster drama, CWM in and out, and RTZ out were the only real drama changes and roster changes. i don't know what drama you're pulling up against them so please expand upon that. the thing im struggling to see here is how is a tier 1.5 team supposed to break into this magical tier 1 area when it's currently occupied by stale teams that are getting the invites based on reasons outside of their dota playing abilities
>what drama
>EMS
its like you don't even know.
|
It's MLG's first serious tournament so they need to build relationships with sponsors/teams and use the big names to pull in as many viewers as they can.
Running the "highest skill" tournament is probably fairly low on their priority list as it goes. The KP argument is kinda pointless. I'd have loved to see them show up and I agree they can beat MOST teams right now without needing any sort of miracle but I don't think the butthurt is justified.
|
On September 18 2013 03:18 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 03:16 Denzil wrote:On September 18 2013 03:11 deroth wrote:On September 18 2013 01:36 ShiroKaisen wrote:On September 18 2013 01:31 Shaella wrote:On September 18 2013 01:28 teddyoojo wrote:
if u think kaipi isnt a tier1 team then sorry, you dont have much clue about dota In the past they've pretty consistently lost against Tier 1 teams Don't get me wrong, they're obviously better than most t2 teams, but they're at this weird spot where they're just below the top t1 teams. I don't think you can really argue that Kaipi is objectively worse than Fnatic, TL, or EG - at least in their pre-TI3 forms. Kaipi defeated every top team outside of Na'vi in The Defense 4, and Kaipi wins virtually every online cup they join, they were top 4 (10-5) in last Starladder group stage and are currently 5-1 in this one, and even though they fakenicked to do it, they qualified for the EMS LAN finals over EG. TL played way above expectations at TI3 and were an extremely good team, but nothing EG or Fnatic have done recently makes it possible to really claim they're "better" than Kaipi. KP has a winning record against both teams. Anybody who's rational and follows Dota would agree that KP is currently playing better than Fnatic (and I'm a Fnatic fan). But as many people have noted, MLG can't risk inviting a team that has a record of drama, frequent roster changes, and not showing up for LAN events when they were supposed to. Until they prove they can (eg attending this season of Starladder would be a start), they won't be taken too seriously when it comes to invites. compared to the other big teams they have very little roster drama, CWM in and out, and RTZ out were the only real drama changes and roster changes. i don't know what drama you're pulling up against them so please expand upon that. the thing im struggling to see here is how is a tier 1.5 team supposed to break into this magical tier 1 area when it's currently occupied by stale teams that are getting the invites based on reasons outside of their dota playing abilities >what drama >EMS its like you don't even know.
3 months ago
you're still clinging onto that?
despite an essentially squeaky clean record since then?
|
On September 18 2013 03:18 Snorkle wrote:
This thread is a disaster. I thought I had gotten away from the whiners and esports experts who know how to run the perfect tournament when I stopped visiting the sc2 section. I'm super excited for everything mlg is looking to do with dota! Can't wait for novemeber!
I am with you. I hate the endless "Why is the event this way, these other three events aren't that way?" and "Why is my favorite team not invited to this event? They are way better than other teams, so explain to me why they aren't here? They are my favorite, so they should be there, because they are the best. Why? Because I only like the best."
If I wanted that, I would go to the SC2 general discussion.
On September 18 2013 03:27 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 03:18 Shaella wrote:On September 18 2013 03:16 Denzil wrote:On September 18 2013 03:11 deroth wrote:On September 18 2013 01:36 ShiroKaisen wrote:On September 18 2013 01:31 Shaella wrote:On September 18 2013 01:28 teddyoojo wrote:
if u think kaipi isnt a tier1 team then sorry, you dont have much clue about dota In the past they've pretty consistently lost against Tier 1 teams Don't get me wrong, they're obviously better than most t2 teams, but they're at this weird spot where they're just below the top t1 teams. I don't think you can really argue that Kaipi is objectively worse than Fnatic, TL, or EG - at least in their pre-TI3 forms. Kaipi defeated every top team outside of Na'vi in The Defense 4, and Kaipi wins virtually every online cup they join, they were top 4 (10-5) in last Starladder group stage and are currently 5-1 in this one, and even though they fakenicked to do it, they qualified for the EMS LAN finals over EG. TL played way above expectations at TI3 and were an extremely good team, but nothing EG or Fnatic have done recently makes it possible to really claim they're "better" than Kaipi. KP has a winning record against both teams. Anybody who's rational and follows Dota would agree that KP is currently playing better than Fnatic (and I'm a Fnatic fan). But as many people have noted, MLG can't risk inviting a team that has a record of drama, frequent roster changes, and not showing up for LAN events when they were supposed to. Until they prove they can (eg attending this season of Starladder would be a start), they won't be taken too seriously when it comes to invites. compared to the other big teams they have very little roster drama, CWM in and out, and RTZ out were the only real drama changes and roster changes. i don't know what drama you're pulling up against them so please expand upon that. the thing im struggling to see here is how is a tier 1.5 team supposed to break into this magical tier 1 area when it's currently occupied by stale teams that are getting the invites based on reasons outside of their dota playing abilities >what drama >EMS its like you don't even know. 3 months ago you're still clinging onto that? despite an essentially squeaky clean record since then?
Three months is nothing in the business world. That is probation period for new hires at a job.
|
People are complaining about not seeing Kaipi because they're a team with as much skill and as many fans as any of the top non-A and non-Na'vi teams, but we still have yet to see them at a single LAN and they got passed over at TI3 qualifiers. They've more than proven themselves online, so naturally people want to see them on LAN ASAP. But since they're international, they can't try to qualify.
|
On September 18 2013 03:32 ShiroKaisen wrote:
People are complaining about not seeing Kaipi because they're a team with as much skill and as many fans as any of the top non-A and non-Na'vi teams, but we still have yet to see them at a single LAN and they got passed over at TI3 qualifiers. They've more than proven themselves online, so naturally people want to see them on LAN ASAP. But since they're international, they can't try to qualify.
Incoming KP Fakenick scandal 2.0
JK
|
Nice. Looking better for the NA scene.
|
On September 18 2013 03:36 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 03:32 ShiroKaisen wrote:
People are complaining about not seeing Kaipi because they're a team with as much skill and as many fans as any of the top non-A and non-Na'vi teams, but we still have yet to see them at a single LAN and they got passed over at TI3 qualifiers. They've more than proven themselves online, so naturally people want to see them on LAN ASAP. But since they're international, they can't try to qualify.
Incoming KP Fakenick scandal 2.0 JK
Lust will stand in for bone7 again
What could possibly go wrong
|
On September 18 2013 03:39 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 03:36 Sn0_Man wrote:On September 18 2013 03:32 ShiroKaisen wrote:
People are complaining about not seeing Kaipi because they're a team with as much skill and as many fans as any of the top non-A and non-Na'vi teams, but we still have yet to see them at a single LAN and they got passed over at TI3 qualifiers. They've more than proven themselves online, so naturally people want to see them on LAN ASAP. But since they're international, they can't try to qualify.
Incoming KP Fakenick scandal 2.0 JK Lust will stand in for bone7 again What could possibly go wrong
And after they qualify, they make a deal to split the pot with the NA team that qualifies through Full Sail...via twitter. That's totally fine, right? They do it in MTG all the time.
|
I mean obviously I'm still really hype for this tournament and can't wait to see the show MLG puts on. But that much is obvious. And if team 8 is really DK...oh man.
|
HOORA FOR DOTA! is sc2 still going to be at columbus? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
