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swwwwwwwwwwweeettt this is going to be awesome
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On September 18 2013 02:40 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:15 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:12 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:10 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:07 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 18 2013 02:02 Kraznaya wrote:
[quote]
if mlg can afford a 50k prize pool they can afford to get players people want to see
see: koreans in sc2 That logic makes no sense. We can't 'afford' everything. If I was able to I would give out $5 billion and have every team in the world attend. I would also have a hover craft shuttle me from the hotel to the venue. ya its basically up to u as an organization to decide what gives u the most value between prize pool and production value/quality of competition chinese tournaments for example pay for travel and accommodation when teams like orange and zenith from SEA qualify for their lan events im just saying flights/hotel would be a small fraction of 50k as opposed to a large fraction of a 5k or 10k lan Paying for flights/accomodation for 8 teams (half of which are in a different continent) is a significant portion of 50k. it depends if u cover everyone or just the team that won, say, a hypothetical open qualifier mlgs open qualifier rules are extremely restrictive though (have to be all NA, can't be from certain states/provinces, have to PAY TO PLAY) so idk You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread  which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do it every 2 weeks mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed I find it fascinating that you think you know if a company needs to charge for something or not. Can you run tournaments without entrance fees? Of course, does that mean every tournament should not have an entrance fee? No. I find it hard to give people credit for their opinion if they bring up something completely unrelated which has been resolved as if it negates any sort of logic behind everything else a company has done.
?
hows BPB and eizo completely unrelated to how a MLG open qualifier would look
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On September 18 2013 02:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:39 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:38 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:35 Denzil wrote:On September 18 2013 02:33 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:31 Denzil wrote:On September 18 2013 01:28 MrCon wrote:On September 18 2013 01:24 Denzil wrote:
Shame mlg have catered to safe invites with large fan bases regardless of how poor recent form has been What would be your better invite list ? teams that have to prove themselves but don't have the opportunities because the large fanbase teams will bring more viewers not teams that have done absolutely nothing since TI3 EG and Fnatic mainly, TL is riding the TI3 result b-tier tourneys who cant pay for travel/accom will always target teams with big sponsors/large fanbases unfortunately thats how egs in it'd even be cheaper to get KP in because you'd only have to fly half their team in as opposed to Fnatic EU Unless Fnatic is covering some of their costs. Also, there is hotel costs and the fact that Fnatic has management. Unlike KP, which doesn't seem to have a full time roster. ? the whole reason rtz was left was so kp could have 5 full time plaeyrs Ah, I thought they did not have a full time roster. Once again, I don't follow them and only get my news when they have a melt down and go full diva.
but they dont
compared to 90% of the other teams here they're the most quiet team when it comes to drama
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On September 18 2013 02:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:39 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:38 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:35 Denzil wrote:On September 18 2013 02:33 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:31 Denzil wrote:On September 18 2013 01:28 MrCon wrote:On September 18 2013 01:24 Denzil wrote:
Shame mlg have catered to safe invites with large fan bases regardless of how poor recent form has been What would be your better invite list ? teams that have to prove themselves but don't have the opportunities because the large fanbase teams will bring more viewers not teams that have done absolutely nothing since TI3 EG and Fnatic mainly, TL is riding the TI3 result b-tier tourneys who cant pay for travel/accom will always target teams with big sponsors/large fanbases unfortunately thats how egs in it'd even be cheaper to get KP in because you'd only have to fly half their team in as opposed to Fnatic EU Unless Fnatic is covering some of their costs. Also, there is hotel costs and the fact that Fnatic has management. Unlike KP, which doesn't seem to have a full time roster. ? the whole reason rtz was left was so kp could have 5 full time plaeyrs Ah, I thought they did not have a full time roster. Once again, I don't follow them and only get my news when they have a melt down and go full diva.
u seem well informed
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On September 18 2013 02:41 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:40 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:39 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:38 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:35 Denzil wrote:On September 18 2013 02:33 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:31 Denzil wrote:On September 18 2013 01:28 MrCon wrote:On September 18 2013 01:24 Denzil wrote:
Shame mlg have catered to safe invites with large fan bases regardless of how poor recent form has been What would be your better invite list ? teams that have to prove themselves but don't have the opportunities because the large fanbase teams will bring more viewers not teams that have done absolutely nothing since TI3 EG and Fnatic mainly, TL is riding the TI3 result b-tier tourneys who cant pay for travel/accom will always target teams with big sponsors/large fanbases unfortunately thats how egs in it'd even be cheaper to get KP in because you'd only have to fly half their team in as opposed to Fnatic EU Unless Fnatic is covering some of their costs. Also, there is hotel costs and the fact that Fnatic has management. Unlike KP, which doesn't seem to have a full time roster. ? the whole reason rtz was left was so kp could have 5 full time plaeyrs Ah, I thought they did not have a full time roster. Once again, I don't follow them and only get my news when they have a melt down and go full diva. but they dont compared to 90% of the other teams here they're the most quiet team when it comes to drama
tahts why he doesnt know anything about them silly
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On September 18 2013 02:39 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:15 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:12 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:10 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:07 MLG_Adam wrote:
[quote]
That logic makes no sense. We can't 'afford' everything.
If I was able to I would give out $5 billion and have every team in the world attend.
I would also have a hover craft shuttle me from the hotel to the venue. ya its basically up to u as an organization to decide what gives u the most value between prize pool and production value/quality of competition chinese tournaments for example pay for travel and accommodation when teams like orange and zenith from SEA qualify for their lan events im just saying flights/hotel would be a small fraction of 50k as opposed to a large fraction of a 5k or 10k lan Paying for flights/accomodation for 8 teams (half of which are in a different continent) is a significant portion of 50k. it depends if u cover everyone or just the team that won, say, a hypothetical open qualifier mlgs open qualifier rules are extremely restrictive though (have to be all NA, can't be from certain states/provinces, have to PAY TO PLAY) so idk You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do every 2 weeks) mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed Right, because walk overs make for really fair brackets, when one team could get 2-4 of them and the other would have to slog though a number of games to get to the same point. Clearly, they should just let in all comers, because having everyone and their grandmother sign up, a quarter not show up and the other quarter get rolled because they are just fucking around is a great use of peoples time. I find it amusing that you think MLG should pay for KPs flights but then also not charge for a qualifier. They charge for tickets to watch the event live, too. I guess you think those should be free as well. like i said ur nightmare scenario seems to never happen in eizo/bigpoint real tournaments make money off of sponsors/ad viewership mlg doesnt necessarily have to charge for live viewership if they become big enough, for example BW proleague in korea didnt
Are you kidding me? You do know that Proleague has a 100K(unclear if that is US dollars, but I doubt it, but it was a lot of money) buy in to even play in the event until recently. 100K to have your team play. You also needed a progaming license, which was another way for Kespa to control who played where. Guess, what, the license cost money.
Please don't trying to drag stuff into the discussion you clearly don't know a lot about.
On September 18 2013 02:43 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:41 Denzil wrote:On September 18 2013 02:40 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:39 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:38 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:35 Denzil wrote:On September 18 2013 02:33 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:31 Denzil wrote:On September 18 2013 01:28 MrCon wrote:On September 18 2013 01:24 Denzil wrote:
Shame mlg have catered to safe invites with large fan bases regardless of how poor recent form has been What would be your better invite list ? teams that have to prove themselves but don't have the opportunities because the large fanbase teams will bring more viewers not teams that have done absolutely nothing since TI3 EG and Fnatic mainly, TL is riding the TI3 result b-tier tourneys who cant pay for travel/accom will always target teams with big sponsors/large fanbases unfortunately thats how egs in it'd even be cheaper to get KP in because you'd only have to fly half their team in as opposed to Fnatic EU Unless Fnatic is covering some of their costs. Also, there is hotel costs and the fact that Fnatic has management. Unlike KP, which doesn't seem to have a full time roster. ? the whole reason rtz was left was so kp could have 5 full time plaeyrs Ah, I thought they did not have a full time roster. Once again, I don't follow them and only get my news when they have a melt down and go full diva. but they dont compared to 90% of the other teams here they're the most quiet team when it comes to drama tahts why he doesnt know anything about them silly
Its cause I am not a 100% fanboy complaining how my favorite team didn't get invited to an event.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 18 2013 02:41 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:40 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:15 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:12 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:10 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:07 MLG_Adam wrote:
[quote]
That logic makes no sense. We can't 'afford' everything.
If I was able to I would give out $5 billion and have every team in the world attend.
I would also have a hover craft shuttle me from the hotel to the venue. ya its basically up to u as an organization to decide what gives u the most value between prize pool and production value/quality of competition chinese tournaments for example pay for travel and accommodation when teams like orange and zenith from SEA qualify for their lan events im just saying flights/hotel would be a small fraction of 50k as opposed to a large fraction of a 5k or 10k lan Paying for flights/accomodation for 8 teams (half of which are in a different continent) is a significant portion of 50k. it depends if u cover everyone or just the team that won, say, a hypothetical open qualifier mlgs open qualifier rules are extremely restrictive though (have to be all NA, can't be from certain states/provinces, have to PAY TO PLAY) so idk You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do it every 2 weeks mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed I find it fascinating that you think you know if a company needs to charge for something or not. Can you run tournaments without entrance fees? Of course, does that mean every tournament should not have an entrance fee? No. I find it hard to give people credit for their opinion if they bring up something completely unrelated which has been resolved as if it negates any sort of logic behind everything else a company has done. ? hows BPB and eizo completely unrelated to how a MLG open qualifier would look The third comment is referring to your jab about extended series.
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On September 18 2013 02:43 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:39 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:15 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:12 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:10 Kraznaya wrote:
[quote]
ya its basically up to u as an organization to decide what gives u the most value between prize pool and production value/quality of competition
chinese tournaments for example pay for travel and accommodation when teams like orange and zenith from SEA qualify for their lan events
im just saying flights/hotel would be a small fraction of 50k as opposed to a large fraction of a 5k or 10k lan Paying for flights/accomodation for 8 teams (half of which are in a different continent) is a significant portion of 50k. it depends if u cover everyone or just the team that won, say, a hypothetical open qualifier mlgs open qualifier rules are extremely restrictive though (have to be all NA, can't be from certain states/provinces, have to PAY TO PLAY) so idk You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do every 2 weeks) mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed Right, because walk overs make for really fair brackets, when one team could get 2-4 of them and the other would have to slog though a number of games to get to the same point. Clearly, they should just let in all comers, because having everyone and their grandmother sign up, a quarter not show up and the other quarter get rolled because they are just fucking around is a great use of peoples time. I find it amusing that you think MLG should pay for KPs flights but then also not charge for a qualifier. They charge for tickets to watch the event live, too. I guess you think those should be free as well. like i said ur nightmare scenario seems to never happen in eizo/bigpoint real tournaments make money off of sponsors/ad viewership mlg doesnt necessarily have to charge for live viewership if they become big enough, for example BW proleague in korea didnt Are you kidding me? You do know that Proleague has a 100K(unclear if that is US dollars, but I doubt it, but it was a lot of money) buy in to even play in the event until recently. 100K to have your team play. You also needed a progaming license, which was another way for Kespa to control who played where. Guess, what, the license cost money. Please don't trying to drag stuff into the discussion you clearly don't know a lot about.
?
u were the one who was dragging in completely unrelated discussion when u brought up whether MLG should sell tickets for their live event
anyway GSL also is free to watch and doesnt have a buy in or a ticket
proleagues buy in is basically the sponsors of the league anyway since the relationship between the league and the teams is different
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United States994 Posts
On September 18 2013 02:41 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:40 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:15 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:12 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:10 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:07 MLG_Adam wrote:
[quote]
That logic makes no sense. We can't 'afford' everything.
If I was able to I would give out $5 billion and have every team in the world attend.
I would also have a hover craft shuttle me from the hotel to the venue. ya its basically up to u as an organization to decide what gives u the most value between prize pool and production value/quality of competition chinese tournaments for example pay for travel and accommodation when teams like orange and zenith from SEA qualify for their lan events im just saying flights/hotel would be a small fraction of 50k as opposed to a large fraction of a 5k or 10k lan Paying for flights/accomodation for 8 teams (half of which are in a different continent) is a significant portion of 50k. it depends if u cover everyone or just the team that won, say, a hypothetical open qualifier mlgs open qualifier rules are extremely restrictive though (have to be all NA, can't be from certain states/provinces, have to PAY TO PLAY) so idk You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do it every 2 weeks mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed I find it fascinating that you think you know if a company needs to charge for something or not. Can you run tournaments without entrance fees? Of course, does that mean every tournament should not have an entrance fee? No. I find it hard to give people credit for their opinion if they bring up something completely unrelated which has been resolved as if it negates any sort of logic behind everything else a company has done. ? hows BPB and eizo completely unrelated to how a MLG open qualifier would look
Maybe they have a different business model? Maybe they have a sponsor that subsidizes all of the activity and wants as many bodies in the event as possible?
I don't know, but I do know what our challenges are, and it is creating non intrusive revenue streams around titles we pick up. We are not trying to be a pig with this: a large portion of the revenue is paid back as prizing and the winner gets an invite + travel support to Columbus.
To be completely transparent, we will be doing more qualifiers in the future and while we're open to experimenting with how we do it, we will have to charge. I believe that once we announce the stakes for next year, that it will be a bit more justified, but as it stands we personally believe that $7.50 per player for this qualifier is a fair amount
We will assess post event and gauge community feedback.
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On September 18 2013 02:44 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:41 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:40 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:15 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:12 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:10 Kraznaya wrote:
[quote]
ya its basically up to u as an organization to decide what gives u the most value between prize pool and production value/quality of competition
chinese tournaments for example pay for travel and accommodation when teams like orange and zenith from SEA qualify for their lan events
im just saying flights/hotel would be a small fraction of 50k as opposed to a large fraction of a 5k or 10k lan Paying for flights/accomodation for 8 teams (half of which are in a different continent) is a significant portion of 50k. it depends if u cover everyone or just the team that won, say, a hypothetical open qualifier mlgs open qualifier rules are extremely restrictive though (have to be all NA, can't be from certain states/provinces, have to PAY TO PLAY) so idk You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do it every 2 weeks mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed I find it fascinating that you think you know if a company needs to charge for something or not. Can you run tournaments without entrance fees? Of course, does that mean every tournament should not have an entrance fee? No. I find it hard to give people credit for their opinion if they bring up something completely unrelated which has been resolved as if it negates any sort of logic behind everything else a company has done. ? hows BPB and eizo completely unrelated to how a MLG open qualifier would look The third comment is referring to your jab about extended series.
so explain to me why it makes sense for MLG to charge to play when basically all other open tourneys don't and havent had problems?
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Let's see how the team rosters will look like...
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On September 18 2013 02:46 MLG_Adam wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:41 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:40 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:15 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:12 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:10 Kraznaya wrote:
[quote]
ya its basically up to u as an organization to decide what gives u the most value between prize pool and production value/quality of competition
chinese tournaments for example pay for travel and accommodation when teams like orange and zenith from SEA qualify for their lan events
im just saying flights/hotel would be a small fraction of 50k as opposed to a large fraction of a 5k or 10k lan Paying for flights/accomodation for 8 teams (half of which are in a different continent) is a significant portion of 50k. it depends if u cover everyone or just the team that won, say, a hypothetical open qualifier mlgs open qualifier rules are extremely restrictive though (have to be all NA, can't be from certain states/provinces, have to PAY TO PLAY) so idk You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do it every 2 weeks mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed I find it fascinating that you think you know if a company needs to charge for something or not. Can you run tournaments without entrance fees? Of course, does that mean every tournament should not have an entrance fee? No. I find it hard to give people credit for their opinion if they bring up something completely unrelated which has been resolved as if it negates any sort of logic behind everything else a company has done. ? hows BPB and eizo completely unrelated to how a MLG open qualifier would look Maybe they have a different business model? Maybe they have a sponsor that subsidizes all of the activity and wants as many bodies in the event as possible? I don't know, but I do know what our challenges are, and it is creating non intrusive revenue streams around titles we pick up. We are not trying to be a pig with this: a large portion of the revenue is paid back as prizing and the winner gets an invite + travel support to Columbus. To be completely transparent, we will be doing more qualifiers in the future and while we're open to experimenting with how we do it, we will have to charge. I believe that once we announce the stakes for next year, that it will be a bit more justified, but as it stands we personally believe that $7.50 per player for this qualifier is a fair amoutn. We will assess post event and gauge community feedback.
i don't see how a buy in such as this is significant revenue for MLG when u can afford to give away a 50k prize pool and run such a large event
just seems like nickel and diming the little guys to me when u could just take away expenses from other parts of the event (such as the prize pool)
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 18 2013 02:49 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:46 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 18 2013 02:41 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:40 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:15 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:12 teapoted wrote:
[quote] Paying for flights/accomodation for 8 teams (half of which are in a different continent) is a significant portion of 50k. it depends if u cover everyone or just the team that won, say, a hypothetical open qualifier mlgs open qualifier rules are extremely restrictive though (have to be all NA, can't be from certain states/provinces, have to PAY TO PLAY) so idk You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do it every 2 weeks mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed I find it fascinating that you think you know if a company needs to charge for something or not. Can you run tournaments without entrance fees? Of course, does that mean every tournament should not have an entrance fee? No. I find it hard to give people credit for their opinion if they bring up something completely unrelated which has been resolved as if it negates any sort of logic behind everything else a company has done. ? hows BPB and eizo completely unrelated to how a MLG open qualifier would look Maybe they have a different business model? Maybe they have a sponsor that subsidizes all of the activity and wants as many bodies in the event as possible? I don't know, but I do know what our challenges are, and it is creating non intrusive revenue streams around titles we pick up. We are not trying to be a pig with this: a large portion of the revenue is paid back as prizing and the winner gets an invite + travel support to Columbus. To be completely transparent, we will be doing more qualifiers in the future and while we're open to experimenting with how we do it, we will have to charge. I believe that once we announce the stakes for next year, that it will be a bit more justified, but as it stands we personally believe that $7.50 per player for this qualifier is a fair amoutn. We will assess post event and gauge community feedback. i don't see how a buy in such as this is significant revenue for MLG when u can afford to give away a 50k prize pool and run such a large event just seems like nickel and diming the little guys to me when u could just take away expenses from other parts of the event (such as the prize pool) My god I feel like I'm on /r/starcraft or something.
'You have 50k prize pool for international Lan tournament but you charge for teams in a separate open league to play.'
You can't be serious.
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On September 18 2013 02:52 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:49 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:46 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 18 2013 02:41 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:40 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:15 Kraznaya wrote:
[quote]
it depends if u cover everyone or just the team that won, say, a hypothetical open qualifier
mlgs open qualifier rules are extremely restrictive though (have to be all NA, can't be from certain states/provinces, have to PAY TO PLAY) so idk
You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do it every 2 weeks mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed I find it fascinating that you think you know if a company needs to charge for something or not. Can you run tournaments without entrance fees? Of course, does that mean every tournament should not have an entrance fee? No. I find it hard to give people credit for their opinion if they bring up something completely unrelated which has been resolved as if it negates any sort of logic behind everything else a company has done. ? hows BPB and eizo completely unrelated to how a MLG open qualifier would look Maybe they have a different business model? Maybe they have a sponsor that subsidizes all of the activity and wants as many bodies in the event as possible? I don't know, but I do know what our challenges are, and it is creating non intrusive revenue streams around titles we pick up. We are not trying to be a pig with this: a large portion of the revenue is paid back as prizing and the winner gets an invite + travel support to Columbus. To be completely transparent, we will be doing more qualifiers in the future and while we're open to experimenting with how we do it, we will have to charge. I believe that once we announce the stakes for next year, that it will be a bit more justified, but as it stands we personally believe that $7.50 per player for this qualifier is a fair amoutn. We will assess post event and gauge community feedback. i don't see how a buy in such as this is significant revenue for MLG when u can afford to give away a 50k prize pool and run such a large event just seems like nickel and diming the little guys to me when u could just take away expenses from other parts of the event (such as the prize pool) My god I feel like I'm on /r/starcraft or something.
why would that be
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On September 18 2013 02:49 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:46 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 18 2013 02:41 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:40 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:15 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:12 teapoted wrote:
[quote] Paying for flights/accomodation for 8 teams (half of which are in a different continent) is a significant portion of 50k. it depends if u cover everyone or just the team that won, say, a hypothetical open qualifier mlgs open qualifier rules are extremely restrictive though (have to be all NA, can't be from certain states/provinces, have to PAY TO PLAY) so idk You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do it every 2 weeks mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed I find it fascinating that you think you know if a company needs to charge for something or not. Can you run tournaments without entrance fees? Of course, does that mean every tournament should not have an entrance fee? No. I find it hard to give people credit for their opinion if they bring up something completely unrelated which has been resolved as if it negates any sort of logic behind everything else a company has done. ? hows BPB and eizo completely unrelated to how a MLG open qualifier would look Maybe they have a different business model? Maybe they have a sponsor that subsidizes all of the activity and wants as many bodies in the event as possible? I don't know, but I do know what our challenges are, and it is creating non intrusive revenue streams around titles we pick up. We are not trying to be a pig with this: a large portion of the revenue is paid back as prizing and the winner gets an invite + travel support to Columbus. To be completely transparent, we will be doing more qualifiers in the future and while we're open to experimenting with how we do it, we will have to charge. I believe that once we announce the stakes for next year, that it will be a bit more justified, but as it stands we personally believe that $7.50 per player for this qualifier is a fair amoutn. We will assess post event and gauge community feedback. i don't see how a buy in such as this is significant revenue for MLG when u can afford to give away a 50k prize pool and run such a large event just seems like nickel and diming the little guys to me when u could just take away expenses from other parts of the event (such as the prize pool)
Because they need to make money somewhere and they can't just do everything for free. $7.50 is less than the cost of seeing a movie and not really much of a burden on the players. They are not going to be making massive profits off of this tiny fee.
On September 18 2013 02:53 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:52 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:49 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:46 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 18 2013 02:41 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:40 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:[quote] You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do it every 2 weeks mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed I find it fascinating that you think you know if a company needs to charge for something or not. Can you run tournaments without entrance fees? Of course, does that mean every tournament should not have an entrance fee? No. I find it hard to give people credit for their opinion if they bring up something completely unrelated which has been resolved as if it negates any sort of logic behind everything else a company has done. ? hows BPB and eizo completely unrelated to how a MLG open qualifier would look Maybe they have a different business model? Maybe they have a sponsor that subsidizes all of the activity and wants as many bodies in the event as possible? I don't know, but I do know what our challenges are, and it is creating non intrusive revenue streams around titles we pick up. We are not trying to be a pig with this: a large portion of the revenue is paid back as prizing and the winner gets an invite + travel support to Columbus. To be completely transparent, we will be doing more qualifiers in the future and while we're open to experimenting with how we do it, we will have to charge. I believe that once we announce the stakes for next year, that it will be a bit more justified, but as it stands we personally believe that $7.50 per player for this qualifier is a fair amoutn. We will assess post event and gauge community feedback. i don't see how a buy in such as this is significant revenue for MLG when u can afford to give away a 50k prize pool and run such a large event just seems like nickel and diming the little guys to me when u could just take away expenses from other parts of the event (such as the prize pool) My god I feel like I'm on /r/starcraft or something. why would that be
People whining about the tiniest shit like:
My favorite team wasn't invited. WHY???
I have to play money to compete in your multi million dollar event? WHY?
What do you mean your online qualifier has some restrictions? WHY?????
Dota 2 is normally a bit more accepting of simple facts of life like: There are rules and shit costs money.
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United States994 Posts
On September 18 2013 02:49 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:46 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 18 2013 02:41 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:40 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:15 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:12 teapoted wrote:
[quote] Paying for flights/accomodation for 8 teams (half of which are in a different continent) is a significant portion of 50k. it depends if u cover everyone or just the team that won, say, a hypothetical open qualifier mlgs open qualifier rules are extremely restrictive though (have to be all NA, can't be from certain states/provinces, have to PAY TO PLAY) so idk You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do it every 2 weeks mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed I find it fascinating that you think you know if a company needs to charge for something or not. Can you run tournaments without entrance fees? Of course, does that mean every tournament should not have an entrance fee? No. I find it hard to give people credit for their opinion if they bring up something completely unrelated which has been resolved as if it negates any sort of logic behind everything else a company has done. ? hows BPB and eizo completely unrelated to how a MLG open qualifier would look Maybe they have a different business model? Maybe they have a sponsor that subsidizes all of the activity and wants as many bodies in the event as possible? I don't know, but I do know what our challenges are, and it is creating non intrusive revenue streams around titles we pick up. We are not trying to be a pig with this: a large portion of the revenue is paid back as prizing and the winner gets an invite + travel support to Columbus. To be completely transparent, we will be doing more qualifiers in the future and while we're open to experimenting with how we do it, we will have to charge. I believe that once we announce the stakes for next year, that it will be a bit more justified, but as it stands we personally believe that $7.50 per player for this qualifier is a fair amoutn. We will assess post event and gauge community feedback. i don't see how a buy in such as this is significant revenue for MLG when u can afford to give away a 50k prize pool and run such a large event just seems like nickel and diming the little guys to me when u could just take away expenses from other parts of the event (such as the prize pool)
That my friend is the misconception. There is no home run revenue in esports. It is all about being lean, making money where you can, and staying efficient. The big lan events are just now starting to approach breaking even/profitability, and even then it is by narrow margins. Unfortunately MLG is our business, and it is not a marketing expense with obscene budgets (as publisher driven events are), we need to make enough money to pay our bills, pay our staff, and keep rolling.
These are my challenges, and I'm sorry you don't agree about the charges to play in a qualifier that has great prizes associated, but it is the reality I face as a business operator
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 18 2013 02:53 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:52 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:49 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:46 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 18 2013 02:41 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:40 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:[quote] You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do it every 2 weeks mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed I find it fascinating that you think you know if a company needs to charge for something or not. Can you run tournaments without entrance fees? Of course, does that mean every tournament should not have an entrance fee? No. I find it hard to give people credit for their opinion if they bring up something completely unrelated which has been resolved as if it negates any sort of logic behind everything else a company has done. ? hows BPB and eizo completely unrelated to how a MLG open qualifier would look Maybe they have a different business model? Maybe they have a sponsor that subsidizes all of the activity and wants as many bodies in the event as possible? I don't know, but I do know what our challenges are, and it is creating non intrusive revenue streams around titles we pick up. We are not trying to be a pig with this: a large portion of the revenue is paid back as prizing and the winner gets an invite + travel support to Columbus. To be completely transparent, we will be doing more qualifiers in the future and while we're open to experimenting with how we do it, we will have to charge. I believe that once we announce the stakes for next year, that it will be a bit more justified, but as it stands we personally believe that $7.50 per player for this qualifier is a fair amoutn. We will assess post event and gauge community feedback. i don't see how a buy in such as this is significant revenue for MLG when u can afford to give away a 50k prize pool and run such a large event just seems like nickel and diming the little guys to me when u could just take away expenses from other parts of the event (such as the prize pool) My god I feel like I'm on /r/starcraft or something. why would that be Because it's just whine and pitchforking from people who don't seem to understand that MLG are running a business.
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On September 18 2013 02:49 Kraznaya wrote:
just seems like nickel and diming the little guys to me when u could just take away expenses from other parts of the event (such as the prize pool)
Taking money away from the prize pool is a GREAT way to grow Dota as a competitive game... :/
Realistically, having a buyin keeps the chaff out and provides a small revenue stream to cover some of their costs. I'm sure it won't cover even the travel benefit the winners will get so I disagree with the characterization that it is "nickel and dime-ing" the little guys.
I'll admit that say $5 sounds more reasonable than 7.50 but its not a big deal. I actually quite like the idea since anybody can find $7.50 if they are serious about it but it either keeps out the chaff OR makes the chaff pay for the privilege of playing vs. better teams.
EDIT: Actually, I'd really like to see valve build a better tournament system from the participant's point of view (more automated, like old bnet automatic tournaments) that organizations like MLG could use to run qualifiers like this and sell tickets to not only watch but to participate in as well, without having to be in personal contact with players etc. Not that personal contact is bad you understand just that it makes stuff much more complicated in general.
A key issue however is that valve skims wayyyyy too much (IMO) off of ticket sales etc. I'm glad for them to take a cut but the current 75% is hella steep, but w/e.
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On September 18 2013 02:53 MLG_Adam wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:49 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:46 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 18 2013 02:41 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:40 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:15 Kraznaya wrote:
[quote]
it depends if u cover everyone or just the team that won, say, a hypothetical open qualifier
mlgs open qualifier rules are extremely restrictive though (have to be all NA, can't be from certain states/provinces, have to PAY TO PLAY) so idk
You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do it every 2 weeks mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed I find it fascinating that you think you know if a company needs to charge for something or not. Can you run tournaments without entrance fees? Of course, does that mean every tournament should not have an entrance fee? No. I find it hard to give people credit for their opinion if they bring up something completely unrelated which has been resolved as if it negates any sort of logic behind everything else a company has done. ? hows BPB and eizo completely unrelated to how a MLG open qualifier would look Maybe they have a different business model? Maybe they have a sponsor that subsidizes all of the activity and wants as many bodies in the event as possible? I don't know, but I do know what our challenges are, and it is creating non intrusive revenue streams around titles we pick up. We are not trying to be a pig with this: a large portion of the revenue is paid back as prizing and the winner gets an invite + travel support to Columbus. To be completely transparent, we will be doing more qualifiers in the future and while we're open to experimenting with how we do it, we will have to charge. I believe that once we announce the stakes for next year, that it will be a bit more justified, but as it stands we personally believe that $7.50 per player for this qualifier is a fair amoutn. We will assess post event and gauge community feedback. i don't see how a buy in such as this is significant revenue for MLG when u can afford to give away a 50k prize pool and run such a large event just seems like nickel and diming the little guys to me when u could just take away expenses from other parts of the event (such as the prize pool) That my friend is the misconception. There is no home run revenue in esports. It is all about being lean, making money where you can, and staying efficient. The big lan events are just now starting to approach breaking even/profitability, and even then it is by narrow margins. Unfortunately MLG is our business, and it is not a marketing expense with obscene budgets (as publisher driven events are), we need to make enough money to pay our bills, pay our staff, and keep rolling. These are my challenges, and I'm sorry you don't agree about the charges to play in a qualifier that has great prizes associated, but it is the reality I face as a business operator
Wait, there are prizes associated with the qualifier itself? I didn't catch that in the press release, but that would be super dope if it was true.
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On September 18 2013 02:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:53 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 18 2013 02:49 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:46 MLG_Adam wrote:On September 18 2013 02:41 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:40 teapoted wrote:On September 18 2013 02:30 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:26 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2013 02:20 Kraznaya wrote:On September 18 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:[quote] You pay to play to avoid teams just signing up and fucking around, wasting peoples time. Entry fees are common in all things competitive to weed out those who don't care. And MLG is supporting the local NA scene by having an open qualifier focused on them. See the previous thread which is now closed) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429403¤tpage=2#30At the end of the day, MLG can't make everyone happy and have everyone's favorite team there. Its how it works. This isn't elementary school and not everyone gets to play. ya the lack of pay to play is really ruining EIZO cup and bigpoint battle seriously though the MLG paytoplay is a relic of the ghetto halo days when they basically helped fund the tournament, no excuse now to take it from the teams that can spare the money the least What the fuck that does even mean? Is that even an argument? Entry fees are nothing new and people who whine about them shouldn't play. If you can't find the way to pull together 20-50 bucks between you and 4 buddies, you clearly didn't care enough to compete. Best not to waste anyone's time. ? since u need it explained to u in simple english, if u think that no entry fee is extremely taxing on the admin who has to administer a few walkovers for people who dont show up, apparently thats ez enough for EIZO cup and BPB admins to do it every 2 weeks mlg has no need for an entry fee and they keep shitty rules in because theres a lot of inertia in the organization (see: retarded extended series rule) obviously there are sycophants that will defend them to the last breath but that doesnt mean unnecessary roadblocks that serve no real purpose shouldnt be criticized and removed I find it fascinating that you think you know if a company needs to charge for something or not. Can you run tournaments without entrance fees? Of course, does that mean every tournament should not have an entrance fee? No. I find it hard to give people credit for their opinion if they bring up something completely unrelated which has been resolved as if it negates any sort of logic behind everything else a company has done. ? hows BPB and eizo completely unrelated to how a MLG open qualifier would look Maybe they have a different business model? Maybe they have a sponsor that subsidizes all of the activity and wants as many bodies in the event as possible? I don't know, but I do know what our challenges are, and it is creating non intrusive revenue streams around titles we pick up. We are not trying to be a pig with this: a large portion of the revenue is paid back as prizing and the winner gets an invite + travel support to Columbus. To be completely transparent, we will be doing more qualifiers in the future and while we're open to experimenting with how we do it, we will have to charge. I believe that once we announce the stakes for next year, that it will be a bit more justified, but as it stands we personally believe that $7.50 per player for this qualifier is a fair amoutn. We will assess post event and gauge community feedback. i don't see how a buy in such as this is significant revenue for MLG when u can afford to give away a 50k prize pool and run such a large event just seems like nickel and diming the little guys to me when u could just take away expenses from other parts of the event (such as the prize pool) That my friend is the misconception. There is no home run revenue in esports. It is all about being lean, making money where you can, and staying efficient. The big lan events are just now starting to approach breaking even/profitability, and even then it is by narrow margins. Unfortunately MLG is our business, and it is not a marketing expense with obscene budgets (as publisher driven events are), we need to make enough money to pay our bills, pay our staff, and keep rolling. These are my challenges, and I'm sorry you don't agree about the charges to play in a qualifier that has great prizes associated, but it is the reality I face as a business operator Wait, there are prizes associated with the qualifier itself? I didn't catch that in the press release, but that would be super dope if it was true.
I think its travel expenses to the LAN, but I could be wrong?
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EPT
