EPTIt's not about forcing you to trade via JSP or in channels, but to make actually playing the game more viable.
The goal is that if you stick to slaying demons instead of wasting your time trading, you'll be better off.
Auction House Removal Approval Rate - Page 3
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
It's not about forcing you to trade via JSP or in channels, but to make actually playing the game more viable. The goal is that if you stick to slaying demons instead of wasting your time trading, you'll be better off. | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On September 19 2013 21:18 Grend wrote: I like it  Hilarious how that when this finally happens, noone seems to be happy about it? I guess everyone who loathed the AH already left. Most people seem to be for it according to the current poll figures. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
I don't really mind that it is removed but I don't understand why people actually want it removed aside from I don't like it for no reason. But the AH removal will allow me to experience if there will be differences, so kind of looking forwards to it. No AH means lowered difficult, unless they ignore the casuals which is doubtful. Finding more and better equip makes the game easier if the monster difficult is not increased. And if they add lategame content for hardcore gamers, you have more difficulty finding the gear needed. Okay this makes it harder since you have to farm it yourself hehe. I actually thought that loot 2.0 and the new stat change npc was enough, since it seems to allow you to ignore the AH completely (could do it before but needed to grind) and it was something nice to have if you have epic drops you don't need at all. At the end it just sounds like a step backwards, because the illegal ahs will be blooming and only the good people will be hurt by this. But it doesn't seem to be about money, because they lose money by removing it Imo. So really curious about the true reason. But always nice to get reminded that Blizzard is still Blizzard. Last one of the non greedy and innovative tripple A developers. Loot hasn't been the fun factor for me in d3 anyway since Legendaries are way to common and bad thanks to magic find that can be incredibly buffed through easy means. So not looking forward to finding 30 Legendaries instead of 10 and not being able to sell good ones for other classes. | ||
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Charger
United States2405 Posts
I don't think the problem was the AH at all but an underlying problem with itemization and item inflation. I think that with ladders, item sinks like the mystic, and loot 2.0 the AH would have been completely fine. When I switched to hardcore the AH wasn't actually terrible. Sure the drop rates for anything close to an upgrade were terrible so I still didn't find upgrades for myself but I could actually sell middle tier items to people who did need it. With ladder resets and item sinks coupled with better loot I think people would in fact play the game much much more. There wouldn't be tons and tons of pages of tip top gear, at least not for long. By the time we got to a point where there were too many items and it was too easy to find upgrades, a ladder reset would be right around the corner ready to reset everything, ideally. For some people finding loot AND buying/selling that loot is fun. Maybe you don't enjoy the economy aspect at all and would prefer to play self found. That's awesome and great. But not everyone enjoys D3 exactly like you enjoy it. I like the economy aspect of the game. I enjoy finding good shit I can sell if I or my buddies don't need it. Even with loot 2.0 you will find items that are not for your class and are good but not upgrades to you. There will be trading in RoS, lots of it. It's part of the fabric of Diablo. You don't have to take part in it if you so choose, but it will most certainly be there in a pretty big way. All the AH removal does is give us a couple options. A less efficient (worse) AH type system or 3rd party sites/forums/trade chat. The first option just seems ridiculous to me. Why would you purposefully make something more inefficient and harder? The second option is atrocious and as much as I want to whine and bitch about it, I can't even imagine this being an option in D3 so discussing it would be pointless. Only time will tell and I hope I'm wrong. I hope Blizzard comes up with some new and innovative solution that works great in RoS and I won't even miss the AH at all. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On September 20 2013 03:26 Charger wrote: I'm not a fan of this. But I get it, I want to play the game more and play the AH less. I realize that finding upgrades within minutes whenever you want can be problematic. But I think it's going to have the complete opposite effect. I think that, after a month or two, people who do decide to trade/sell will spend significantly MORE time not playing the game. I don't think the problem was the AH at all but an underlying problem with itemization and item inflation. I think that with ladders, item sinks like the mystic, and loot 2.0 the AH would have been completely fine. When I switched to hardcore the AH wasn't actually terrible. Sure the drop rates for anything close to an upgrade were terrible so I still didn't find upgrades for myself but I could actually sell middle tier items to people who did need it. With ladder resets and item sinks coupled with better loot I think people would in fact play the game much much more. There wouldn't be tons and tons of pages of tip top gear, at least not for long. By the time we got to a point where there were too many items and it was too easy to find upgrades, a ladder reset would be right around the corner ready to reset everything, ideally. For some people finding loot AND buying/selling that loot is fun. Maybe you don't enjoy the economy aspect at all and would prefer to play self found. That's awesome and great. But not everyone enjoys D3 exactly like you enjoy it. I like the economy aspect of the game. I enjoy finding good shit I can sell if I or my buddies don't need it. Even with loot 2.0 you will find items that are not for your class and are good but not upgrades to you. There will be trading in RoS, lots of it. It's part of the fabric of Diablo. You don't have to take part in it if you so choose, but it will most certainly be there in a pretty big way. All the AH removal does is give us a couple options. A less efficient (worse) AH type system or 3rd party sites/forums/trade chat. The first option just seems ridiculous to me. Why would you purposefully make something more inefficient and harder? The second option is atrocious and as much as I want to whine and bitch about it, I can't even imagine this being an option in D3 so discussing it would be pointless. Only time will tell and I hope I'm wrong. I hope Blizzard comes up with some new and innovative solution that works great in RoS and I won't even miss the AH at all. Amen, couldn't have said my opinion better myself. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On September 20 2013 03:55 Pokebunny wrote: Amen, couldn't have said my opinion better myself. i'll join the circlejerk and concur! the funny thing about much of the AH hate is that people want the AH, just a dumbed down, shittier version of it so that they can keep the casuals out and only hardcore (i.e., lot of free time on their hands) people will go through the trouble of trading. give us a game where we don't need to use the AH (loot 2.0, for god's sake, please be good), but can use it if we want. | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On September 20 2013 03:26 Charger wrote: I'm not a fan of this. But I get it, I want to play the game more and play the AH less. I realize that finding upgrades within minutes whenever you want can be problematic. But I think it's going to have the complete opposite effect. I think that, after a month or two, people who do decide to trade/sell will spend significantly MORE time not playing the game. I don't think the problem was the AH at all but an underlying problem with itemization and item inflation. I think that with ladders, item sinks like the mystic, and loot 2.0 the AH would have been completely fine. When I switched to hardcore the AH wasn't actually terrible. Sure the drop rates for anything close to an upgrade were terrible so I still didn't find upgrades for myself but I could actually sell middle tier items to people who did need it. With ladder resets and item sinks coupled with better loot I think people would in fact play the game much much more. There wouldn't be tons and tons of pages of tip top gear, at least not for long. By the time we got to a point where there were too many items and it was too easy to find upgrades, a ladder reset would be right around the corner ready to reset everything, ideally. For some people finding loot AND buying/selling that loot is fun. Maybe you don't enjoy the economy aspect at all and would prefer to play self found. That's awesome and great. But not everyone enjoys D3 exactly like you enjoy it. I like the economy aspect of the game. I enjoy finding good shit I can sell if I or my buddies don't need it. Even with loot 2.0 you will find items that are not for your class and are good but not upgrades to you. There will be trading in RoS, lots of it. It's part of the fabric of Diablo. You don't have to take part in it if you so choose, but it will most certainly be there in a pretty big way. All the AH removal does is give us a couple options. A less efficient (worse) AH type system or 3rd party sites/forums/trade chat. The first option just seems ridiculous to me. Why would you purposefully make something more inefficient and harder? The second option is atrocious and as much as I want to whine and bitch about it, I can't even imagine this being an option in D3 so discussing it would be pointless. Only time will tell and I hope I'm wrong. I hope Blizzard comes up with some new and innovative solution that works great in RoS and I won't even miss the AH at all. Good points but remember that the Devs said it was going against how they envision people enjoying D3. Due to item drops being affected by the AH, it was considered that the AH was an integral part of the game. They now believe the AH should not be considered a mandatory part of the D3 experience while still enjoying good gear. Hence it is cut (maybe there are other options but I hvaen't read any). The developers will always have final say in how they want their game to be played. While this "way of enjoyment" changes as a game matures, and usually is acceptable by Devs, in this case it was not. All in all, playing self-found is currently a severe limitation in upgrading equipment. Also, we have no details of how Loot 2.0 will work besides some fundamentals. | ||
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gruff
Sweden2276 Posts
On September 20 2013 03:58 dAPhREAk wrote: i'll join the circlejerk and concur! the funny thing about much of the AH hate is that people want the AH, just a dumbed down, shittier version of it so that they can keep the casuals out and only hardcore (i.e., lot of free time on their hands) people will go through the trouble of trading. give us a game where we don't need to use the AH (loot 2.0, for god's sake, please be good), but can use it if we want. It seems to me that it's the hardcore players that are most adamant in their defense of the auction house, not the casuals. And even the loot 2.0 won't solve a lot of the issues that the auction house creates. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On September 20 2013 04:20 gruff wrote: It seems to me that it's the hardcore players that are most adamant in their defense of the auction house, not the casuals. personally, i wouldn't consider people who post on forums like this to be casuals--although there may be some exceptions. i definitely do not think people who go to d2sjp are casuals in any manner. AH allowed casuals to easily post their items. get rid of AH and the majority of people trading (outside of their own friends group) will be hardcore players. casuals will just vendor or salvage everything because they can't be bothered to play the WTS WTS WTS spam on trade chats or similar third party sites. | ||
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Masq
Canada1792 Posts
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HardlyNever
United States1258 Posts
Overall, I like the removal. Looking for people that had that item you wanted, and wanted something you had, was actually pretty fun in D2. I initially agreed with the logic behind the AH (and RMAH); which was that people would be doing a similar thing on third party sites anyhow, why not just include it directly in the game? I think most of us underestimated the path of least resistance, though. While people that used JSP or directly bough items in D2 was probably fairly limited (botting was a far larger issue), I think putting the AH system directly into the game simply made it too accessible to the entire community, and became a core part of the game play cycle. As others have said, a core issue is the way loot worked, and how using the AH was virtually the ONLY way to upgrade your gear beyond a certain point. But I don't see how people can really be that upset about the removal of the AH. Those third party sites still exist if you want that experience, you just have to work a tad harder to do it. | ||
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Iblis
904 Posts
Awesome loot and great gear should have been in the game since the launch. ridiculously low roll on ilvl 63 affixes are just the dumbest itemization choice ever made. So now players that actually like the farming games, played a lot and just use the AH to find specific items to complete their character and not trade flip items or scam people are now back to have nothing to do in the game after some time upgrade are not self foundable and sitting in trade chat, items shop already wasted 80% of their time for weeks. | ||
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LingsAreBunnies
United States103 Posts
if there is no AH, it just means trading higher end items becomes more annoying. in d2, when something like a perfect/near perfect unique/runeword rolled, BiS/near BiS rares dropped, you either spend multiple days trying to trade it on third party sites like d2jsp, or severely undersell it by spamming trade games for hours/days. having something like the AH would make things like this a lot easier, I dont really see a downside to it if the drop rates are high enough for the AH to not be required. | ||
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
If the game is rewarding enough so that I can progress naturally, I'm ok with its removal, even though I'm not sure its really necessary. So I'd say it depends on how the loot 2.0 turns out to be. If I don't have to use it, can loot great gear in a reasonable time to get to the next MP level and can ignore most of the WTS spam, I'm happy. | ||
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Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
On September 20 2013 04:26 dAPhREAk wrote: personally, i wouldn't consider people who post on forums like this to be casuals--although there may be some exceptions. i definitely do not think people who go to d2sjp are casuals in any manner. AH allowed casuals to easily post their items. get rid of AH and the majority of people trading (outside of their own friends group) will be hardcore players. casuals will just vendor or salvage everything because they can't be bothered to play the WTS WTS WTS spam on trade chats or similar third party sites. I'm fairly casual. Only got two level 60s, none of them above Paragon10. Here's what I hated. Current system : Use AH to buy cheapo items to farm low MP inferno, sort through hundreds of yellows trying to find anything worth selling, usually fail. System I hope will exist in the expansion : Kill stuff, get upgrades, kill more stuff. I really do want fewer, more useful items. I hate sorting through junk and trying to turn the best drops into gold to maybe oneday buy an item upgrade. | ||
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RageOverdose
United States690 Posts
I personally voted yes, but I wish I had voted mixed. Honestly though, I can see Loot 2.0 invalidating an AH and making it just more maintenance fees on Blizzard's part. At the same time, with smart drops and the fact Legendaries drop at all levels, that means getting the Legendary you want is going to be much harder without trading. Now, when you see a Legendary bow at 60, it is a Windforce. In the Loot 2.0 patch, it could be one of the other many Legendary bows in the game. This would make the Auction House much more appealing so you could find the Legendary you were looking for. I think a trading system needs to exist in some form outside of chat channels and forum threads. I've heard suggestions of public "trade tabs" where you could basically create a little market on one stash tab that shows items you want to trade. Searchability is important, and Blizzard wants to keep that within their game, but public tabs could still retain the more social aspect of trading, while streamlining the process. I think removing the AH without some backup system in mind is a dangerous idea, but overall I'm fine with the removal. | ||
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Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
Consider this: If you tune the droprates so that you get, on average, 1 great item every 5 hrs of gameplay (just an example) and you need to fill, say, 5 gearslots (again, an example), you will have a 100% chance for your first great item drop to be useful, 80% for your second and so on until you go down to 20% on your last (let's pretend all classes can use all gear). So you'll need, on average, 5hrs to get your first good itemdrop and 25 hours to fill up your last slot (the chance to hit the right slot on the good drop would be 1/5 by the time you're filling up your last slot out of the 5). Enter trading: You simply need to get 5 good drops, not caring about whether they actually suit you, because you can just trade those away and get the good stuff that way. Total time to acquire good loot for all slots: Average time to get a good lootpiece (5hrs in my example) * gearslots (5 in my example) = 25 hours. However, trading tends to be tedious and/or avoided by a large percentage of the playerbase that simply don't want to deal with the hassle (like finding an item for sale, doing market research so you don't get ripped off etc). Enter AH: It's right there, in your face. The time required for market research and finding a seller is no more. Everyone and their mother uses it, as opposed to traditional forum / tradechat where only a small part of the total population used it. The hardcore gamers gear up in no time at all. The casuals can feed off the hardcores who farm loot at vastly greater rates than them and are willing to sell it dirt cheap, since they got so much of it. The economy is driven into the ground in no time at all. So how do you design around this? What Blizzard did was try to stall the death of the economy / extreme item proliferation by having ridiculously low droprates, so that getting great gear wouldn't be trivial for a while. That obviously takes away a large part of the fun of playing the game, since you're almost guaranteed never to find anything worthwhile. Now they're removing items from the economy via enchanting, have already introduced BoA crafted items, are introducing ladders that will (hopefully) regularly reset the economy so the game remains interesting. Does that solve the preeminent problem of the speedup of the economy's death via mass trading? Especially when droprates will, presumably, be high enough that it is actually viable to be that guy that never trades but wants to be able to gear up in a reasonable timeframe (ie, a few hundred hours worth of farming at the most, with average luck). I'm not going to math it up but I suspect that even a bimonthly reset under AH conditions might be too long - and that's ridiculously short for a ladder. At some point they'll be forced to 'solve' the problem by removing the reason for an economy to exist, like it is with console loot/droprates. I don't think that's a very fun aRPG, though it might be a fun shootemup. I wouldn't necessarily be against a commodities only AH but that's a nonissue if the droprates are tuned correctly in the actual game, especially if top recipes require BoA materials. | ||
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JustJonny
Canada294 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
For example AH for just lvl 70 stuff would be fine I think, you can still easily sell the super high end stuff you find that you can't use but the normal playing experience isn't ruined as much by the fact super good gear for pretty cheap can be bought for your leveling character, especially with the dumbest affix ever of -level requirement. It's just the way collecting works, the longer you collect the lower the rate of finding new stuff/upgrades becomes. The super high end stuff will still usually be found through bartering now, it will just be more cumbersome. Especially getting rid of good but not fantastic gear will just be a chore now, there is an incentive to do so as just selling ingame is a waste obviously but it also takes effort. Overall I just think keeping the AH in a reduced form, perhaps just making the trading fee not a percentage but a fixed amount so the lower end stuff is uninteresting to trade away, would have been better. AH had the nice effect that money was actually really important, I have yet to see forging etc. becomes intersting enough that there are other ways to use the money if you don't like trading | ||
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Mithhaike
Singapore2759 Posts
gambling is a huge waste of gold | ||
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