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Hello Everyone. Some people had the great idea of polling what people think of the AH closing down permanently on March 18, 2014 (see http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/10974978/). Please cast your vote to determine the approval of Team Liquideers!
Poll: Do you approve of the Diablo 3 Auction House closing permanently?Yes! (253) 74% No! (51) 15% Mixed feelings (please post with more details). (37) 11% 341 total votes Your vote: Do you approve of the Diablo 3 Auction House closing permanently? (Vote): Yes!
(Vote): No!
(Vote): Mixed feelings (please post with more details).
Personally, I am glad it is going away even though I occasionally enjoyed it. I definitely loathed it more since I felt like I was forced to use it to remain competitive.
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I voted yes but I find it amusing that there are 2 people who voted "Mixed Feelings (please post with more details)." yet I'm the first reply XD.
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Trade will be shitty, so I can't really say that I like the decision. Removing the RMAH would have perhaps been enough.
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Im torn on this one 
On one hand its good for the game, along with ladder resets this should fix most of the stuff that was hurting the game.
On the other hand i made 2.5k € on rmah and that was really awesome too  I doubt i could that much money or maybe any money at all if only way to cash out was thru illegal means. I guess we will find out.
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Mixed feelings. There are times I want to trade. I hate manual trading with people since online communities have proven time and again that they are full of unethical people. But the AH just causes so many troubles that Blizzard can't fix.
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I understand their decision but I think it is demagogy before anything else. Loot 2.0 will solve most of the issues, and at that point the AH isn't nearly as mandatory as it is now, so it's just not worth the resulting effort and nuisances. Blizzard is just seizing the opportunity for the huge positive feedback.
Once the official AH fall, many unofficial ones will rise... so I guess the game it's gonna be better for self-found play and worse for BiS-hunters.
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On September 19 2013 07:00 CruelZeratul wrote:
Trade will be shitty, so I can't really say that I like the decision. Removing the RMAH would have perhaps been enough.
yep. once i get to a certain point with my char there are not likely to be any upgrades dropping, and i consider using shitty trade chat, forums and third party websites a huge waste of time.
the funny thing is the people who are asking for blizzard to create resources to make trading easier.... its like they want a dumbed down version of the AH....
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On September 19 2013 07:43 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 07:00 CruelZeratul wrote:
Trade will be shitty, so I can't really say that I like the decision. Removing the RMAH would have perhaps been enough. yep. once i get to a certain point with my char there are not likely to be any upgrades dropping, and i consider using shitty trade chat, forums and third party websites a huge waste of time. the funny thing is the people who are asking for blizzard to create resources to make trading easier.... its like they want a dumbed down version of the AH....
Since you seem to be the most vocal against this change, here's a question for you. Blizzard has basically said that the existence of the AH does not allow for a good loot drop system, which is why they're scrapping it entirely. So, knowing that good itemization and AH are mutually exclusive, which would you prefer?
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On September 19 2013 08:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 07:43 dAPhREAk wrote:On September 19 2013 07:00 CruelZeratul wrote:
Trade will be shitty, so I can't really say that I like the decision. Removing the RMAH would have perhaps been enough. yep. once i get to a certain point with my char there are not likely to be any upgrades dropping, and i consider using shitty trade chat, forums and third party websites a huge waste of time. the funny thing is the people who are asking for blizzard to create resources to make trading easier.... its like they want a dumbed down version of the AH.... Since you seem to be the most vocal against this change, here's a question for you. Blizzard has basically said that the existence of the AH does not allow for a good loot drop system, which is why they're scrapping it entirely. So, knowing that good itemization and AH are mutually exclusive, which would you prefer?
i don't agree its mutually exclusive. they should do the loot 2.0 and keep AH (I don't care about RMAH). people can choose how they want to play. you want to be ironborn, go for it. you want to get BiS on every single item, use the AH. blizzard can also add things like "ironborn ladder" or something similar.
if i find a good item, but its for a char i dont want to play with, i dont want to think "i guess i have to salvage this amazing item because i don't want to play trade chat, forum, etc. to get something for my own char."
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On September 19 2013 08:12 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 08:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 19 2013 07:43 dAPhREAk wrote:On September 19 2013 07:00 CruelZeratul wrote:
Trade will be shitty, so I can't really say that I like the decision. Removing the RMAH would have perhaps been enough. yep. once i get to a certain point with my char there are not likely to be any upgrades dropping, and i consider using shitty trade chat, forums and third party websites a huge waste of time. the funny thing is the people who are asking for blizzard to create resources to make trading easier.... its like they want a dumbed down version of the AH.... Since you seem to be the most vocal against this change, here's a question for you. Blizzard has basically said that the existence of the AH does not allow for a good loot drop system, which is why they're scrapping it entirely. So, knowing that good itemization and AH are mutually exclusive, which would you prefer? i don't agree its mutually exclusive. they should do the loot 2.0 and keep AH (I don't care about RMAH). people can choose how they want to play. you want to be ironborn, go for it. you want to get BiS on every single item, use the AH. blizzard can also add things like "ironborn ladder" or something similar. if i find a good item, but its for a char i dont want to play with, i dont want to think "i guess i have to salvage this amazing item because i don't want to play trade chat, forum, etc. to get something for my own char."
Good points. In Diablo 2 we would create stash characters for great loot we would find that would be useful on a different character. Hoarding like this would also motivate us to try builds we had some good items for. A new feature we must consider in the expansion will be the guild hall which will hopefully have a guild stash. It would be great for hardcore (keeping some global 1-60 training gear handy for everyone) but would also be good for allowing small, trusted, groups of individuals to share great loot they find. I'm just wondering how they will allow people to trade in the game without game names like in Diablo 2. I hope it won't be constant trade spam. Sorry to digress so much but this got me thinking.
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On September 19 2013 08:12 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 08:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 19 2013 07:43 dAPhREAk wrote:On September 19 2013 07:00 CruelZeratul wrote:
Trade will be shitty, so I can't really say that I like the decision. Removing the RMAH would have perhaps been enough. yep. once i get to a certain point with my char there are not likely to be any upgrades dropping, and i consider using shitty trade chat, forums and third party websites a huge waste of time. the funny thing is the people who are asking for blizzard to create resources to make trading easier.... its like they want a dumbed down version of the AH.... Since you seem to be the most vocal against this change, here's a question for you. Blizzard has basically said that the existence of the AH does not allow for a good loot drop system, which is why they're scrapping it entirely. So, knowing that good itemization and AH are mutually exclusive, which would you prefer? i don't agree its mutually exclusive. they should do the loot 2.0 and keep AH (I don't care about RMAH). people can choose how they want to play. you want to be ironborn, go for it. you want to get BiS on every single item, use the AH. blizzard can also add things like "ironborn ladder" or something similar. if i find a good item, but its for a char i dont want to play with, i dont want to think "i guess i have to salvage this amazing item because i don't want to play trade chat, forum, etc. to get something for my own char."
I agree that an AH that's basically a BiS vending machine is certainly possible. However, Blizzard's current stance is one or the other, not both.
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Not exactly pleased about the lack of the real money house - i don't think it hurts the game at all. The gold house had to go though.
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got a lot of good items from the AH, which i wouldnt have otherwise. my dps is wicked high because of it.. compared to my 65k from before i went throught it.
but im glad its gone.
loot 2.0 gone be goot
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On September 19 2013 09:43 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 08:12 dAPhREAk wrote:On September 19 2013 08:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 19 2013 07:43 dAPhREAk wrote:On September 19 2013 07:00 CruelZeratul wrote:
Trade will be shitty, so I can't really say that I like the decision. Removing the RMAH would have perhaps been enough. yep. once i get to a certain point with my char there are not likely to be any upgrades dropping, and i consider using shitty trade chat, forums and third party websites a huge waste of time. the funny thing is the people who are asking for blizzard to create resources to make trading easier.... its like they want a dumbed down version of the AH.... Since you seem to be the most vocal against this change, here's a question for you. Blizzard has basically said that the existence of the AH does not allow for a good loot drop system, which is why they're scrapping it entirely. So, knowing that good itemization and AH are mutually exclusive, which would you prefer? i don't agree its mutually exclusive. they should do the loot 2.0 and keep AH (I don't care about RMAH). people can choose how they want to play. you want to be ironborn, go for it. you want to get BiS on every single item, use the AH. blizzard can also add things like "ironborn ladder" or something similar. if i find a good item, but its for a char i dont want to play with, i dont want to think "i guess i have to salvage this amazing item because i don't want to play trade chat, forum, etc. to get something for my own char." I agree that an AH that's basically a BiS vending machine is certainly possible. However, Blizzard's current stance is one or the other, not both.
seems lazy by them, but whatever. i rarely used the AH since i couldn't afford anything and rarely got good drops, but when i did find that one or two items, i loved the ability to be able to sell them and upgrade one of my slots. i consider losing the AH a bad thing overall. i would prefer they work around it, not completely eliminate it. i am not looking forward to using d2sjp, forums or trade chat. oh wells.
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I voted no.
The only way how can Loot 2.0 (or current version whatever) work without trading is if there is no itemization. The better itemization gets, the higher necessity of trading is.
Increasing itemization means same thing as decreasing chance that drop will be useful for character/build you want to play.
Since I can remember I considered itemization the best part of D2 - thats why I was so much disappointed about D3 - so this step towards either further decreasing itemization AND/OR making itemization so frustrating I dont like.
Removing RMAH I support 100% though. That shit should never come live. And about AH removal - I must say I mind mostly because it simply make game designers look so incompentent... At the same time promising better itemization, yet removing tool to use itemization... Doesnt really look logical to me.
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On September 19 2013 10:52 Sek-Kuar wrote:
I voted no.
The only way how can Loot 2.0 (or current version whatever) work without trading is if there is no itemization. The better itemization gets, the higher necessity of trading is.
Increasing itemization means same thing as decreasing chance that drop will be useful for character/build you want to play.
Since I can remember I considered itemization the best part of D2 - thats why I was so much disappointed about D3 - so this step towards either further decreasing itemization AND/OR making itemization so frustrating I dont like.
Removing RMAH I support 100% though. That shit should never come live. And about AH removal - I must say I mind mostly because it simply make game designers look so incompentent... At the same time promising better itemization, yet removing tool to use itemization... Doesnt really look logical to me.
I'm severely confused by your post. When you say "Itemization", what exactly are you referring to? Because you seem to be using the word completely wrong...
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On September 19 2013 11:24 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 10:52 Sek-Kuar wrote:
I voted no.
The only way how can Loot 2.0 (or current version whatever) work without trading is if there is no itemization. The better itemization gets, the higher necessity of trading is.
Increasing itemization means same thing as decreasing chance that drop will be useful for character/build you want to play.
Since I can remember I considered itemization the best part of D2 - thats why I was so much disappointed about D3 - so this step towards either further decreasing itemization AND/OR making itemization so frustrating I dont like.
Removing RMAH I support 100% though. That shit should never come live. And about AH removal - I must say I mind mostly because it simply make game designers look so incompentent... At the same time promising better itemization, yet removing tool to use itemization... Doesnt really look logical to me. I'm severely confused by your post. When you say "Itemization", what exactly are you referring to? Because you seem to be using the word completely wrong...
In general I refer to itemization as attribute of game that makes items and their stats build specific. Item diversity. Importance of items in game. So that "choosing items and their stats" is part of choosing build.
In current version of D3 its hardly ever possible to look at someone gear and predict his/her build, which means that the only purpose of items is to get DPS. BiS items are same among most builds often even chars, leaving no room for items to be a part of builds.
That state sure doesnt need trading so much. But if they are going to increase item diversity (=itemization), necessity of trading will increase as well.
If - at some point - I failed to understand what people mean when they say itemization, then this is what I truly meant.
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On September 19 2013 11:55 Sek-Kuar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 11:24 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 19 2013 10:52 Sek-Kuar wrote:
I voted no.
The only way how can Loot 2.0 (or current version whatever) work without trading is if there is no itemization. The better itemization gets, the higher necessity of trading is.
Increasing itemization means same thing as decreasing chance that drop will be useful for character/build you want to play.
Since I can remember I considered itemization the best part of D2 - thats why I was so much disappointed about D3 - so this step towards either further decreasing itemization AND/OR making itemization so frustrating I dont like.
Removing RMAH I support 100% though. That shit should never come live. And about AH removal - I must say I mind mostly because it simply make game designers look so incompentent... At the same time promising better itemization, yet removing tool to use itemization... Doesnt really look logical to me. I'm severely confused by your post. When you say "Itemization", what exactly are you referring to? Because you seem to be using the word completely wrong... In general I refer to itemization as attribute of game that makes items and their stats build specific. Item diversity. Importance of items in game. So that "choosing items and their stats" is part of choosing build. In current version of D3 its hardly ever possible to look at someone gear and predict his/her build, which means that the only purpose of items is to get DPS. BiS items are same among most builds often even chars, leaving no room for items to be a part of builds. That state sure doesnt need trading so much. But if they are going to increase item diversity (=itemization), necessity of trading will increase as well. If - at some point - I failed to understand what people mean when they say itemization, then this is what I truly meant.
"Itemization" generally implies a lot more things than just diversity. There's also the relevance to the character that found it, general appeal in comparison to what else you can find, general usefulness, etc.
Done properly, the improvements in Loot 2.0 should make most Legendaries you find "useful". It may not be an upgrade, but hopefully a parallel option...your stats may not increase, but at the very least you should be able to look at it and say "I could have a use for this".
That's assuming it's done right.
If you're looking for extremely specific gear for a very specific build, then yes, losing the AH is an issue. But hopefully Loot 2.0 doesn't force you to hunt through trade spam for general play.
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voted no
if people doesnt like AH, they can choose to ignore it and stop being jealous about other ppl's gears. Blizz can buff the drop rate and actually ignore the existence of AH, the purpose of AH is to help people to get gears instantly w/o investing half ur life farming. Even i play d3 release till now, i dislike farming long hours, i have better things to do if i were force to sit here long hours.
for RMAH, well d3 vanilla indeed can make a living for hardcore farmers but it didnt affect the game at all. Like i said, the removal of AH is simply ppl bitching about their jealousy non stop cos they dont get good items like others.
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Its too little too late. The effect of this will be rather disappointing for people who tend to blame their poor D3 experience on the AH. I quit playing D3 a long time ago not because of the AH, I actually liked trading and that may be the best part of the game, but because they stopped patching and implementing new features about 4 months into the game. D3 is not the game that can survive without new content constantly being updated, bugs and balance fixed, and, most importantly, the ladder system and competitive PvP. It started feeling like the game was maintained by a "team" of a couple of underpaid part time employees of Blizzard. That is not something I'm used to by playing Blizzard games like SC2 and WoW. So, yeah, good luck to all of you hopeful people, but my forecast is extremely pessimistic.
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On September 19 2013 12:37 justiceknight wrote:
voted no
if people doesnt like AH, they can choose to ignore it and stop being jealous about other ppl's gears. Blizz can buff the drop rate and actually ignore the existence of AH, the purpose of AH is to help people to get gears instantly w/o investing half ur life farming. Even i play d3 release till now, i dislike farming long hours, i have better things to do if i were force to sit here long hours.
for RMAH, well d3 vanilla indeed can make a living for hardcore farmers but it didnt affect the game at all. Like i said, the removal of AH is simply ppl bitching about their jealousy non stop cos they dont get good items like others.
You dont get it at all do you? Your arguing FOR removal of AH.
Having the AH is why your farming long hours.
Without the AH they can now change drop rates & itemise your drops without that constraint as there is no AH to worry about.
Look at console. Have you seen people play on console? Their using Loot 2.0, they can get items they require without needing a AH as the drops are dropping high enough quantity and quality.
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Now that I think about it, my levels of fun dropped off a cliff as soon as I started having to use the AH to buy upgrades, rather than relying on drops. Not only was I not getting upgrades from monster kills anymore, but now I had to research item values and worry about selling all the semi-good items that did drop, in order to be able to afford upgrades.
So a big thumbs up for AH removal for me.
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I think its retarded how hyped people are that they are removing a feature people could've ignored anyway.
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On September 19 2013 16:27 MoonfireSpam wrote:
I think its retarded how hyped people are that they are removing a feature people could've ignored anyway.
Could not ignore since its influences are engraved in the items development. People are hyped because the Auction House represents what is wrong with Diablo III and seeing its removal is to be celebrated. It illustrates that Blizzard is finally moving toward the correct direction of the game being focused on loot "finding" and not mere buying.
The system failed; players were aware of it long ago and Blizzard has acknowledged its flaws (and damage).
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The effect of the AH and RMAH was all over the game since release. You can not say it is a feature that is completely exclusive from everything about the game, it isn't. You can "ignore it", but you can not ignore the fact that the game was designed with the AH firmly in its mind. D2 farming was fun, D3 farming was the absolute worst thing ever. That is the difference, and it looks like Blizzard is addressing it directly: Proper drop rates, no AH.
It isn't a surprise that those two things are completely connected, and are being simultaneously patched.
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Mixed feelings.
Why removal of the AH is good: improves the RPG feel of the game
Why removal of the AH is bad: makes gameplay worse. Even though I think it might be a good move overall - the improvement of the RPG feel hits the essence of Diablo and trumps anything else - it is undeniable that it will make gameplay more clunky and less streamlined in terms of the trade aspect. Barter economies are overrated - anyone can just easily look up the "market price" for an item from a forum and feel happy/unhappy about the deal they got; the AH merely removes that inconvenience.
So I guess Blizz has managed to improve the game by making gameplay worse, which isn't a direction which is optimal imo.
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On September 19 2013 16:27 MoonfireSpam wrote:
I think its retarded how hyped people are that they are removing a feature people could've ignored anyway.
I think its retarded how stupid people can be for ignoring that the entire game is built around the AH.
How can you ignore the AH when the game is built around it in the first place.Even if we do not use the AH, we're gimped because the game has reduced drop rates and various other things built into the game itself, because it's accounting for the existence of the AH.
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On September 19 2013 17:24 Mithhaike wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 16:27 MoonfireSpam wrote:
I think its retarded how hyped people are that they are removing a feature people could've ignored anyway. I think its retarded how stupid people can be for ignoring that the entire game is built around the AH. How can you ignore the AH when the game is built around it in the first place.Even if we do not use the AH, we're gimped because the game has reduced drop rates and various other things built into the game itself, because it's accounting for the existence of the AH.
It's mostly that D3 lacks teleport to Mephisto (or any other boss), kill, repeat. This of course inflates drop rates.
The guys thought that repeating that game mechanic would be shit.
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I'm in a state of shock lol. I really like the direction the new team is taking the game from what I am hearing.
My take on it is that, if you can just buy the BiS items for your character... what is the point of playing? For me, much of the fun in arpg's was using sub-optimal gear (self found) and embracing the challenge. Having a feeling of progression. I still think itemization is too generic (have to see what the expansion brings though), and I miss the progression of skills and spells themselves from D2...
If you can just buy everything, why not just ship the game that way- characters pre-built as some sort of Uber Collector's Edition (for those so inclined)? I really can't see how that would be any fun personally.
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On September 19 2013 17:24 Mithhaike wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 16:27 MoonfireSpam wrote:
I think its retarded how hyped people are that they are removing a feature people could've ignored anyway. I think its retarded how stupid people can be for ignoring that the entire game is built around the AH. How can you ignore the AH when the game is built around it in the first place.Even if we do not use the AH, we're gimped because the game has reduced drop rates and various other things built into the game itself, because it's accounting for the existence of the AH.
they can simply make it loot2.0 buff drop rates/quality and have AH open, the purpose of AH is to get stuff quicker and with gems/tomes gonna be extremely difficult in ROS to get, i can predict people screaming wanting AH back since the quantity required is extreme ridiculous and not efficient as the runewords in D2
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Albert Einstein once said that the definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different result.
This has happend couple months ago... Remember rare items being superior to everything? People calling for buff to legendaries? And Blizzard did so - and we had our Echoing Fury, Witching Hour etc.
As a result of that, people got bored and Blizzard had to increse difficulty and add new chalange to game. Increasing quality of items can not even theoretically lead to anything else. At first right after buff you might be getting many many upgrades... But if you are getting several hundreds of rare/legendary items every day, eventually only one or none can be upgrade and with no doubt rest is useless for you.
The only effect of increasing item quality is that treshold of what you call "bad item" is moved up, but eventualy your game is going to stabilize at that point where most drops are useless once again.
The only way how to make drops useful overall while not upgrade for yourself is in increasing item diversity among builds and characters. THE ONLY WAY. And again - assuming that you dont want to play 15+ different builds at same time, the more item diversity gets, the higher necessity of trading is.
Bottom line is: If they are going to make right changes with Loot 2.0 (and not just improve few stats on legendaries) trading will become much more important than it ever was. I doubt they can push build diversity anywhere near close where D2 was, but every improvement in this are only increases necessity of trading.
And if they are only going to increase some stats, then this should be called Loot 3.0 while keeping in mind that current version (that would be 2.0) that simply changed BiS from rare to legendary couple months ago failed miserably.
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I voted mixed feelings.
I never even used it that much tbh, but sometimes I would look at some builds and be like hey that looks kinda cool, and would want to try it out.I'd just go to the ah, buy some gear and check it out. Now doing something like that is going to be a lot harder.
But then of course, without the auction house the drop rate is going to increase and your going to find better items, but if your looking for something specific and your not getting if after farming for a month, your going to have to spam chat channels/scouring forums, that is not really fun (although for some it seems it is..).
Plus the ah also gives a lot of people a grounding as to what their items is worth, and without it it would become harder to gauge. And the anonymity of the ah is quite nice too, it's like here is my price, if you dont like it dont buy it.
Even if some third party sites do come up, like dota 2 lounge, that make it a lot easier to trade, it would solve some of the problems above(giving your self a rough idea of the value of your item, and searching for items) but you'd still have to put up with angsty teens, and just random people who offer one thing and then haggle and bargain for more at the time of trade.
So while I did like the convenience of having the ah, if it was going to gimp gameplay (specifically drop rates, and making farming gold a priority......without even playing the game, but by just flipping) you might aswell remove it. I think I will still miss it to a certain extent, especially given the alternatives.
I agree with the people who mention that the ah was not really the core issue with the itemization, but it's the character system itself.
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Without knowledge about the details of loot 2.0 I dont really think much can be said. How selfsustaining will the loot be? With the new BoA gear in RoS, will there ever be a need to trade?
I do feel like they scraped the AH rather then tinkering with the games flaws. It's almost like a symbolic sacrifice, similarly with Jay Wilson.
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No, because I have no confidence Blizzard can replace its end functionality with a system that doesn't devolve into item hording, trade forums, interaction with "WHY NO SELL ???" folks, and the simple fact that you can no longer "cash out" of a game you invested so much time into.
Personal blog/thoughts of the AH: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=429578
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I like it
Hilarious how that when this finally happens, noone seems to be happy about it?
I guess everyone who loathed the AH already left.
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I believe the trade system they will input needs to be really solid in order to make diablo 3 survive.
I also believe that since from the begining stages of development, they should have made a "common area" where people can join and talk, and show their sets, items to sell, all that community stuff.
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Mixed feelings, wrote this before:
On September 18 2013 13:34 Necosarius wrote:
They should only remove it from ladder IMO, I liked the AH because I don't have the time or patience anymore to grind for hours a day and still not find an upgrade. The people that do have the time and patience will most likely be playing on ladder anyway because they are the ones that are most vocal about how awful the AH is.
Also, I like to be able to trade items for gold and not just items for items. Thinking back at D2, a lot of my time was spent waiting in trading games. It's just less of a hassle to have an auction house to go to when you find a good item that you won't be using because it's for the wrong class/not really an upgrade.
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I think please no, no until I can reimburse my copy of D3 and Ros LOL
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On September 19 2013 21:18 Grend wrote:I like it Hilarious how that when this finally happens, noone seems to be happy about it? I guess everyone who loathed the AH already left.
Nah it was just a few very vocal people (same as any forum). Personally I hope to all things holy and unholy that this does not see the return of Trade Games, Trade Chat or forum trading. That was a fucking waste of time.
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On September 19 2013 22:48 MoonfireSpam wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 21:18 Grend wrote:I like it Hilarious how that when this finally happens, noone seems to be happy about it? I guess everyone who loathed the AH already left. Nah it was just a few very vocal people (same as any forum). Personally I hope to all things holy and unholy that this does not see the return of Trade Games, Trade Chat or forum trading. That was a fucking waste of time.
From the descriptions of Loot 2.0 and how the console version of D3 currently works you probably won't be spamming trade for something, you'll be killing monsters (in a hack and slash game! omg) unless it's absolute top tier that you're looking for.
Auction House Tycoon can RIP
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Some of you seem to be missing the point.
It's not about forcing you to trade via JSP or in channels, but to make actually playing the game more viable.
The goal is that if you stick to slaying demons instead of wasting your time trading, you'll be better off.
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On September 19 2013 21:18 Grend wrote:I like it Hilarious how that when this finally happens, noone seems to be happy about it? I guess everyone who loathed the AH already left.
Most people seem to be for it according to the current poll figures.
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wonder how many yes votes are from people who just follow the call of: "the ah is bad". Since many who love that it is gone, want something that works just like the ah, but it is not named ah.
I don't really mind that it is removed but I don't understand why people actually want it removed aside from I don't like it for no reason. But the AH removal will allow me to experience if there will be differences, so kind of looking forwards to it.
No AH means lowered difficult, unless they ignore the casuals which is doubtful. Finding more and better equip makes the game easier if the monster difficult is not increased.
And if they add lategame content for hardcore gamers, you have more difficulty finding the gear needed. Okay this makes it harder since you have to farm it yourself hehe.
I actually thought that loot 2.0 and the new stat change npc was enough, since it seems to allow you to ignore the AH completely (could do it before but needed to grind) and it was something nice to have if you have epic drops you don't need at all.
At the end it just sounds like a step backwards, because the illegal ahs will be blooming and only the good people will be hurt by this. But it doesn't seem to be about money, because they lose money by removing it Imo. So really curious about the true reason.
But always nice to get reminded that Blizzard is still Blizzard. Last one of the non greedy and innovative tripple A developers.
Loot hasn't been the fun factor for me in d3 anyway since Legendaries are way to common and bad thanks to magic find that can be incredibly buffed through easy means. So not looking forward to finding 30 Legendaries instead of 10 and not being able to sell good ones for other classes.
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I'm not a fan of this. But I get it, I want to play the game more and play the AH less. I realize that finding upgrades within minutes whenever you want can be problematic. But I think it's going to have the complete opposite effect. I think that, after a month or two, people who do decide to trade/sell will spend significantly MORE time not playing the game.
I don't think the problem was the AH at all but an underlying problem with itemization and item inflation. I think that with ladders, item sinks like the mystic, and loot 2.0 the AH would have been completely fine. When I switched to hardcore the AH wasn't actually terrible. Sure the drop rates for anything close to an upgrade were terrible so I still didn't find upgrades for myself but I could actually sell middle tier items to people who did need it. With ladder resets and item sinks coupled with better loot I think people would in fact play the game much much more. There wouldn't be tons and tons of pages of tip top gear, at least not for long. By the time we got to a point where there were too many items and it was too easy to find upgrades, a ladder reset would be right around the corner ready to reset everything, ideally.
For some people finding loot AND buying/selling that loot is fun. Maybe you don't enjoy the economy aspect at all and would prefer to play self found. That's awesome and great. But not everyone enjoys D3 exactly like you enjoy it. I like the economy aspect of the game. I enjoy finding good shit I can sell if I or my buddies don't need it. Even with loot 2.0 you will find items that are not for your class and are good but not upgrades to you.
There will be trading in RoS, lots of it. It's part of the fabric of Diablo. You don't have to take part in it if you so choose, but it will most certainly be there in a pretty big way. All the AH removal does is give us a couple options. A less efficient (worse) AH type system or 3rd party sites/forums/trade chat. The first option just seems ridiculous to me. Why would you purposefully make something more inefficient and harder? The second option is atrocious and as much as I want to whine and bitch about it, I can't even imagine this being an option in D3 so discussing it would be pointless.
Only time will tell and I hope I'm wrong. I hope Blizzard comes up with some new and innovative solution that works great in RoS and I won't even miss the AH at all.
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On September 20 2013 03:26 Charger wrote:
I'm not a fan of this. But I get it, I want to play the game more and play the AH less. I realize that finding upgrades within minutes whenever you want can be problematic. But I think it's going to have the complete opposite effect. I think that, after a month or two, people who do decide to trade/sell will spend significantly MORE time not playing the game.
I don't think the problem was the AH at all but an underlying problem with itemization and item inflation. I think that with ladders, item sinks like the mystic, and loot 2.0 the AH would have been completely fine. When I switched to hardcore the AH wasn't actually terrible. Sure the drop rates for anything close to an upgrade were terrible so I still didn't find upgrades for myself but I could actually sell middle tier items to people who did need it. With ladder resets and item sinks coupled with better loot I think people would in fact play the game much much more. There wouldn't be tons and tons of pages of tip top gear, at least not for long. By the time we got to a point where there were too many items and it was too easy to find upgrades, a ladder reset would be right around the corner ready to reset everything, ideally.
For some people finding loot AND buying/selling that loot is fun. Maybe you don't enjoy the economy aspect at all and would prefer to play self found. That's awesome and great. But not everyone enjoys D3 exactly like you enjoy it. I like the economy aspect of the game. I enjoy finding good shit I can sell if I or my buddies don't need it. Even with loot 2.0 you will find items that are not for your class and are good but not upgrades to you.
There will be trading in RoS, lots of it. It's part of the fabric of Diablo. You don't have to take part in it if you so choose, but it will most certainly be there in a pretty big way. All the AH removal does is give us a couple options. A less efficient (worse) AH type system or 3rd party sites/forums/trade chat. The first option just seems ridiculous to me. Why would you purposefully make something more inefficient and harder? The second option is atrocious and as much as I want to whine and bitch about it, I can't even imagine this being an option in D3 so discussing it would be pointless.
Only time will tell and I hope I'm wrong. I hope Blizzard comes up with some new and innovative solution that works great in RoS and I won't even miss the AH at all.
Amen, couldn't have said my opinion better myself.
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On September 20 2013 03:55 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 03:26 Charger wrote:
I'm not a fan of this. But I get it, I want to play the game more and play the AH less. I realize that finding upgrades within minutes whenever you want can be problematic. But I think it's going to have the complete opposite effect. I think that, after a month or two, people who do decide to trade/sell will spend significantly MORE time not playing the game.
I don't think the problem was the AH at all but an underlying problem with itemization and item inflation. I think that with ladders, item sinks like the mystic, and loot 2.0 the AH would have been completely fine. When I switched to hardcore the AH wasn't actually terrible. Sure the drop rates for anything close to an upgrade were terrible so I still didn't find upgrades for myself but I could actually sell middle tier items to people who did need it. With ladder resets and item sinks coupled with better loot I think people would in fact play the game much much more. There wouldn't be tons and tons of pages of tip top gear, at least not for long. By the time we got to a point where there were too many items and it was too easy to find upgrades, a ladder reset would be right around the corner ready to reset everything, ideally.
For some people finding loot AND buying/selling that loot is fun. Maybe you don't enjoy the economy aspect at all and would prefer to play self found. That's awesome and great. But not everyone enjoys D3 exactly like you enjoy it. I like the economy aspect of the game. I enjoy finding good shit I can sell if I or my buddies don't need it. Even with loot 2.0 you will find items that are not for your class and are good but not upgrades to you.
There will be trading in RoS, lots of it. It's part of the fabric of Diablo. You don't have to take part in it if you so choose, but it will most certainly be there in a pretty big way. All the AH removal does is give us a couple options. A less efficient (worse) AH type system or 3rd party sites/forums/trade chat. The first option just seems ridiculous to me. Why would you purposefully make something more inefficient and harder? The second option is atrocious and as much as I want to whine and bitch about it, I can't even imagine this being an option in D3 so discussing it would be pointless.
Only time will tell and I hope I'm wrong. I hope Blizzard comes up with some new and innovative solution that works great in RoS and I won't even miss the AH at all. Amen, couldn't have said my opinion better myself.
i'll join the circlejerk and concur! the funny thing about much of the AH hate is that people want the AH, just a dumbed down, shittier version of it so that they can keep the casuals out and only hardcore (i.e., lot of free time on their hands) people will go through the trouble of trading.
give us a game where we don't need to use the AH (loot 2.0, for god's sake, please be good), but can use it if we want.
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On September 20 2013 03:26 Charger wrote:
I'm not a fan of this. But I get it, I want to play the game more and play the AH less. I realize that finding upgrades within minutes whenever you want can be problematic. But I think it's going to have the complete opposite effect. I think that, after a month or two, people who do decide to trade/sell will spend significantly MORE time not playing the game.
I don't think the problem was the AH at all but an underlying problem with itemization and item inflation. I think that with ladders, item sinks like the mystic, and loot 2.0 the AH would have been completely fine. When I switched to hardcore the AH wasn't actually terrible. Sure the drop rates for anything close to an upgrade were terrible so I still didn't find upgrades for myself but I could actually sell middle tier items to people who did need it. With ladder resets and item sinks coupled with better loot I think people would in fact play the game much much more. There wouldn't be tons and tons of pages of tip top gear, at least not for long. By the time we got to a point where there were too many items and it was too easy to find upgrades, a ladder reset would be right around the corner ready to reset everything, ideally.
For some people finding loot AND buying/selling that loot is fun. Maybe you don't enjoy the economy aspect at all and would prefer to play self found. That's awesome and great. But not everyone enjoys D3 exactly like you enjoy it. I like the economy aspect of the game. I enjoy finding good shit I can sell if I or my buddies don't need it. Even with loot 2.0 you will find items that are not for your class and are good but not upgrades to you.
There will be trading in RoS, lots of it. It's part of the fabric of Diablo. You don't have to take part in it if you so choose, but it will most certainly be there in a pretty big way. All the AH removal does is give us a couple options. A less efficient (worse) AH type system or 3rd party sites/forums/trade chat. The first option just seems ridiculous to me. Why would you purposefully make something more inefficient and harder? The second option is atrocious and as much as I want to whine and bitch about it, I can't even imagine this being an option in D3 so discussing it would be pointless.
Only time will tell and I hope I'm wrong. I hope Blizzard comes up with some new and innovative solution that works great in RoS and I won't even miss the AH at all.
Good points but remember that the Devs said it was going against how they envision people enjoying D3. Due to item drops being affected by the AH, it was considered that the AH was an integral part of the game. They now believe the AH should not be considered a mandatory part of the D3 experience while still enjoying good gear. Hence it is cut (maybe there are other options but I hvaen't read any). The developers will always have final say in how they want their game to be played. While this "way of enjoyment" changes as a game matures, and usually is acceptable by Devs, in this case it was not. All in all, playing self-found is currently a severe limitation in upgrading equipment. Also, we have no details of how Loot 2.0 will work besides some fundamentals.
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On September 20 2013 03:58 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 03:55 Pokebunny wrote:On September 20 2013 03:26 Charger wrote:
I'm not a fan of this. But I get it, I want to play the game more and play the AH less. I realize that finding upgrades within minutes whenever you want can be problematic. But I think it's going to have the complete opposite effect. I think that, after a month or two, people who do decide to trade/sell will spend significantly MORE time not playing the game.
I don't think the problem was the AH at all but an underlying problem with itemization and item inflation. I think that with ladders, item sinks like the mystic, and loot 2.0 the AH would have been completely fine. When I switched to hardcore the AH wasn't actually terrible. Sure the drop rates for anything close to an upgrade were terrible so I still didn't find upgrades for myself but I could actually sell middle tier items to people who did need it. With ladder resets and item sinks coupled with better loot I think people would in fact play the game much much more. There wouldn't be tons and tons of pages of tip top gear, at least not for long. By the time we got to a point where there were too many items and it was too easy to find upgrades, a ladder reset would be right around the corner ready to reset everything, ideally.
For some people finding loot AND buying/selling that loot is fun. Maybe you don't enjoy the economy aspect at all and would prefer to play self found. That's awesome and great. But not everyone enjoys D3 exactly like you enjoy it. I like the economy aspect of the game. I enjoy finding good shit I can sell if I or my buddies don't need it. Even with loot 2.0 you will find items that are not for your class and are good but not upgrades to you.
There will be trading in RoS, lots of it. It's part of the fabric of Diablo. You don't have to take part in it if you so choose, but it will most certainly be there in a pretty big way. All the AH removal does is give us a couple options. A less efficient (worse) AH type system or 3rd party sites/forums/trade chat. The first option just seems ridiculous to me. Why would you purposefully make something more inefficient and harder? The second option is atrocious and as much as I want to whine and bitch about it, I can't even imagine this being an option in D3 so discussing it would be pointless.
Only time will tell and I hope I'm wrong. I hope Blizzard comes up with some new and innovative solution that works great in RoS and I won't even miss the AH at all. Amen, couldn't have said my opinion better myself. i'll join the circlejerk and concur! the funny thing about much of the AH hate is that people want the AH, just a dumbed down, shittier version of it so that they can keep the casuals out and only hardcore (i.e., lot of free time on their hands) people will go through the trouble of trading. give us a game where we don't need to use the AH (loot 2.0, for god's sake, please be good), but can use it if we want.
It seems to me that it's the hardcore players that are most adamant in their defense of the auction house, not the casuals.
And even the loot 2.0 won't solve a lot of the issues that the auction house creates.
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On September 20 2013 04:20 gruff wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 03:58 dAPhREAk wrote:On September 20 2013 03:55 Pokebunny wrote:On September 20 2013 03:26 Charger wrote:
I'm not a fan of this. But I get it, I want to play the game more and play the AH less. I realize that finding upgrades within minutes whenever you want can be problematic. But I think it's going to have the complete opposite effect. I think that, after a month or two, people who do decide to trade/sell will spend significantly MORE time not playing the game.
I don't think the problem was the AH at all but an underlying problem with itemization and item inflation. I think that with ladders, item sinks like the mystic, and loot 2.0 the AH would have been completely fine. When I switched to hardcore the AH wasn't actually terrible. Sure the drop rates for anything close to an upgrade were terrible so I still didn't find upgrades for myself but I could actually sell middle tier items to people who did need it. With ladder resets and item sinks coupled with better loot I think people would in fact play the game much much more. There wouldn't be tons and tons of pages of tip top gear, at least not for long. By the time we got to a point where there were too many items and it was too easy to find upgrades, a ladder reset would be right around the corner ready to reset everything, ideally.
For some people finding loot AND buying/selling that loot is fun. Maybe you don't enjoy the economy aspect at all and would prefer to play self found. That's awesome and great. But not everyone enjoys D3 exactly like you enjoy it. I like the economy aspect of the game. I enjoy finding good shit I can sell if I or my buddies don't need it. Even with loot 2.0 you will find items that are not for your class and are good but not upgrades to you.
There will be trading in RoS, lots of it. It's part of the fabric of Diablo. You don't have to take part in it if you so choose, but it will most certainly be there in a pretty big way. All the AH removal does is give us a couple options. A less efficient (worse) AH type system or 3rd party sites/forums/trade chat. The first option just seems ridiculous to me. Why would you purposefully make something more inefficient and harder? The second option is atrocious and as much as I want to whine and bitch about it, I can't even imagine this being an option in D3 so discussing it would be pointless.
Only time will tell and I hope I'm wrong. I hope Blizzard comes up with some new and innovative solution that works great in RoS and I won't even miss the AH at all. Amen, couldn't have said my opinion better myself. i'll join the circlejerk and concur! the funny thing about much of the AH hate is that people want the AH, just a dumbed down, shittier version of it so that they can keep the casuals out and only hardcore (i.e., lot of free time on their hands) people will go through the trouble of trading. give us a game where we don't need to use the AH (loot 2.0, for god's sake, please be good), but can use it if we want. It seems to me that it's the hardcore players that are most adamant in their defense of the auction house, not the casuals.
personally, i wouldn't consider people who post on forums like this to be casuals--although there may be some exceptions. i definitely do not think people who go to d2sjp are casuals in any manner. AH allowed casuals to easily post their items. get rid of AH and the majority of people trading (outside of their own friends group) will be hardcore players. casuals will just vendor or salvage everything because they can't be bothered to play the WTS WTS WTS spam on trade chats or similar third party sites.
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Blizzard can't win for losing, it seems. No matter what, someone will be pissed about their decisions. Such is life, and the internet.
Overall, I like the removal. Looking for people that had that item you wanted, and wanted something you had, was actually pretty fun in D2. I initially agreed with the logic behind the AH (and RMAH); which was that people would be doing a similar thing on third party sites anyhow, why not just include it directly in the game? I think most of us underestimated the path of least resistance, though. While people that used JSP or directly bough items in D2 was probably fairly limited (botting was a far larger issue), I think putting the AH system directly into the game simply made it too accessible to the entire community, and became a core part of the game play cycle.
As others have said, a core issue is the way loot worked, and how using the AH was virtually the ONLY way to upgrade your gear beyond a certain point. But I don't see how people can really be that upset about the removal of the AH. Those third party sites still exist if you want that experience, you just have to work a tad harder to do it.
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Like I have been saying elsewhere, the AH was a good thing, tuning the game so you need to use it to progress in the game wasn't but those motherfuckers got greedy.
Awesome loot and great gear should have been in the game since the launch. ridiculously low roll on ilvl 63 affixes are just the dumbest itemization choice ever made. So now players that actually like the farming games, played a lot and just use the AH to find specific items to complete their character and not trade flip items or scam people are now back to have nothing to do in the game after some time upgrade are not self foundable and sitting in trade chat, items shop already wasted 80% of their time for weeks.
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as someone pointed above, it makes more sense to just buff up the drop rates and keep the AH, I dont see why some people think the two cant both happen. The problem with the AH in D3 was that the drop rates were so low that everyone is basically forced to use it, since the items on it was so much better than anything ever dropped.
if there is no AH, it just means trading higher end items becomes more annoying. in d2, when something like a perfect/near perfect unique/runeword rolled, BiS/near BiS rares dropped, you either spend multiple days trying to trade it on third party sites like d2jsp, or severely undersell it by spamming trade games for hours/days. having something like the AH would make things like this a lot easier, I dont really see a downside to it if the drop rates are high enough for the AH to not be required.
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I don't like trade and AH.
If the game is rewarding enough so that I can progress naturally, I'm ok with its removal, even though I'm not sure its really necessary. So I'd say it depends on how the loot 2.0 turns out to be.
If I don't have to use it, can loot great gear in a reasonable time to get to the next MP level and can ignore most of the WTS spam, I'm happy.
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On September 20 2013 04:26 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 04:20 gruff wrote:On September 20 2013 03:58 dAPhREAk wrote:On September 20 2013 03:55 Pokebunny wrote:On September 20 2013 03:26 Charger wrote:
I'm not a fan of this. But I get it, I want to play the game more and play the AH less. I realize that finding upgrades within minutes whenever you want can be problematic. But I think it's going to have the complete opposite effect. I think that, after a month or two, people who do decide to trade/sell will spend significantly MORE time not playing the game.
I don't think the problem was the AH at all but an underlying problem with itemization and item inflation. I think that with ladders, item sinks like the mystic, and loot 2.0 the AH would have been completely fine. When I switched to hardcore the AH wasn't actually terrible. Sure the drop rates for anything close to an upgrade were terrible so I still didn't find upgrades for myself but I could actually sell middle tier items to people who did need it. With ladder resets and item sinks coupled with better loot I think people would in fact play the game much much more. There wouldn't be tons and tons of pages of tip top gear, at least not for long. By the time we got to a point where there were too many items and it was too easy to find upgrades, a ladder reset would be right around the corner ready to reset everything, ideally.
For some people finding loot AND buying/selling that loot is fun. Maybe you don't enjoy the economy aspect at all and would prefer to play self found. That's awesome and great. But not everyone enjoys D3 exactly like you enjoy it. I like the economy aspect of the game. I enjoy finding good shit I can sell if I or my buddies don't need it. Even with loot 2.0 you will find items that are not for your class and are good but not upgrades to you.
There will be trading in RoS, lots of it. It's part of the fabric of Diablo. You don't have to take part in it if you so choose, but it will most certainly be there in a pretty big way. All the AH removal does is give us a couple options. A less efficient (worse) AH type system or 3rd party sites/forums/trade chat. The first option just seems ridiculous to me. Why would you purposefully make something more inefficient and harder? The second option is atrocious and as much as I want to whine and bitch about it, I can't even imagine this being an option in D3 so discussing it would be pointless.
Only time will tell and I hope I'm wrong. I hope Blizzard comes up with some new and innovative solution that works great in RoS and I won't even miss the AH at all. Amen, couldn't have said my opinion better myself. i'll join the circlejerk and concur! the funny thing about much of the AH hate is that people want the AH, just a dumbed down, shittier version of it so that they can keep the casuals out and only hardcore (i.e., lot of free time on their hands) people will go through the trouble of trading. give us a game where we don't need to use the AH (loot 2.0, for god's sake, please be good), but can use it if we want. It seems to me that it's the hardcore players that are most adamant in their defense of the auction house, not the casuals. personally, i wouldn't consider people who post on forums like this to be casuals--although there may be some exceptions. i definitely do not think people who go to d2sjp are casuals in any manner. AH allowed casuals to easily post their items. get rid of AH and the majority of people trading (outside of their own friends group) will be hardcore players. casuals will just vendor or salvage everything because they can't be bothered to play the WTS WTS WTS spam on trade chats or similar third party sites.
I'm fairly casual. Only got two level 60s, none of them above Paragon10. Here's what I hated.
Current system : Use AH to buy cheapo items to farm low MP inferno, sort through hundreds of yellows trying to find anything worth selling, usually fail.
System I hope will exist in the expansion : Kill stuff, get upgrades, kill more stuff.
I really do want fewer, more useful items. I hate sorting through junk and trying to turn the best drops into gold to maybe oneday buy an item upgrade.
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I still think they removed the AH more as a means to cut costs and make designing drops a bit easier, as well as for the goodwill of the vocal members of gaming communities that loathe the feature.
I personally voted yes, but I wish I had voted mixed. Honestly though, I can see Loot 2.0 invalidating an AH and making it just more maintenance fees on Blizzard's part. At the same time, with smart drops and the fact Legendaries drop at all levels, that means getting the Legendary you want is going to be much harder without trading. Now, when you see a Legendary bow at 60, it is a Windforce. In the Loot 2.0 patch, it could be one of the other many Legendary bows in the game. This would make the Auction House much more appealing so you could find the Legendary you were looking for.
I think a trading system needs to exist in some form outside of chat channels and forum threads. I've heard suggestions of public "trade tabs" where you could basically create a little market on one stash tab that shows items you want to trade. Searchability is important, and Blizzard wants to keep that within their game, but public tabs could still retain the more social aspect of trading, while streamlining the process.
I think removing the AH without some backup system in mind is a dangerous idea, but overall I'm fine with the removal.
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To the guys who think there's no problem for an AH to coexist with 'normal' droprates.
Consider this: If you tune the droprates so that you get, on average, 1 great item every 5 hrs of gameplay (just an example) and you need to fill, say, 5 gearslots (again, an example), you will have a 100% chance for your first great item drop to be useful, 80% for your second and so on until you go down to 20% on your last (let's pretend all classes can use all gear). So you'll need, on average, 5hrs to get your first good itemdrop and 25 hours to fill up your last slot (the chance to hit the right slot on the good drop would be 1/5 by the time you're filling up your last slot out of the 5).
Enter trading: You simply need to get 5 good drops, not caring about whether they actually suit you, because you can just trade those away and get the good stuff that way. Total time to acquire good loot for all slots: Average time to get a good lootpiece (5hrs in my example) * gearslots (5 in my example) = 25 hours. However, trading tends to be tedious and/or avoided by a large percentage of the playerbase that simply don't want to deal with the hassle (like finding an item for sale, doing market research so you don't get ripped off etc).
Enter AH: It's right there, in your face. The time required for market research and finding a seller is no more. Everyone and their mother uses it, as opposed to traditional forum / tradechat where only a small part of the total population used it. The hardcore gamers gear up in no time at all. The casuals can feed off the hardcores who farm loot at vastly greater rates than them and are willing to sell it dirt cheap, since they got so much of it. The economy is driven into the ground in no time at all.
So how do you design around this? What Blizzard did was try to stall the death of the economy / extreme item proliferation by having ridiculously low droprates, so that getting great gear wouldn't be trivial for a while. That obviously takes away a large part of the fun of playing the game, since you're almost guaranteed never to find anything worthwhile.
Now they're removing items from the economy via enchanting, have already introduced BoA crafted items, are introducing ladders that will (hopefully) regularly reset the economy so the game remains interesting. Does that solve the preeminent problem of the speedup of the economy's death via mass trading? Especially when droprates will, presumably, be high enough that it is actually viable to be that guy that never trades but wants to be able to gear up in a reasonable timeframe (ie, a few hundred hours worth of farming at the most, with average luck). I'm not going to math it up but I suspect that even a bimonthly reset under AH conditions might be too long - and that's ridiculously short for a ladder. At some point they'll be forced to 'solve' the problem by removing the reason for an economy to exist, like it is with console loot/droprates. I don't think that's a very fun aRPG, though it might be a fun shootemup.
I wouldn't necessarily be against a commodities only AH but that's a nonissue if the droprates are tuned correctly in the actual game, especially if top recipes require BoA materials.
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i voted "mixed feelings", not because i'm worried, but just unsure. really liked d3 with the ah, hoping to continue to like it without.
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I liked the AH as the trading etc. was easy. Some stuff is very hard to collect without trading and if you dislike bartering (which I do) it becomes fairly useless to find good stuff for characters you don't have. I don't think the logic that AH means no good loot system is true at all.
For example AH for just lvl 70 stuff would be fine I think, you can still easily sell the super high end stuff you find that you can't use but the normal playing experience isn't ruined as much by the fact super good gear for pretty cheap can be bought for your leveling character, especially with the dumbest affix ever of -level requirement.
It's just the way collecting works, the longer you collect the lower the rate of finding new stuff/upgrades becomes. The super high end stuff will still usually be found through bartering now, it will just be more cumbersome. Especially getting rid of good but not fantastic gear will just be a chore now, there is an incentive to do so as just selling ingame is a waste obviously but it also takes effort.
Overall I just think keeping the AH in a reduced form, perhaps just making the trading fee not a percentage but a fixed amount so the lower end stuff is uninteresting to trade away, would have been better. AH had the nice effect that money was actually really important, I have yet to see forging etc. becomes intersting enough that there are other ways to use the money if you don't like trading
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Thats why they need to give us Gheed gambling is a huge waste of gold
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On September 20 2013 11:11 Taguchi wrote:
Enter AH: It's right there, in your face. The time required for market research and finding a seller is no more. Everyone and their mother uses it, as opposed to traditional forum / tradechat where only a small part of the total population used it. The hardcore gamers gear up in no time at all. The casuals can feed off the hardcores who farm loot at vastly greater rates than them and are willing to sell it dirt cheap, since they got so much of it. The economy is driven into the ground in no time at all.
Only small percent used it because most people don't want to play "chase a buyer/seller" and do that market research shit, I would rather do it in real life if I'm going to commit time like that. They said it themselves that the game should be about killing shit and getting loots.
Keep both, make good loot easy to find (i.e. like Meph runs in D2) and super awesome loot still rare. People can still trade easily, and awesome items still retain value until bots or dupe.
Example: I want to buy enchanting mats. I could do onto the AH, pick one up quick. Or without it spam trade chat, or post on a forum, waste more time bartering, waste some time with seller that is late / doesn't show up.
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If u make a hardcore char and play through safely without using the AH you will be level 60 whilst fighting level 30-40 monsters.
You end up killing shit for basically no experience simply waiting to gear up so you can kill harder shit which you should already be able to kill because your 20 levels higher than it.
why is this? drop rates are so bad and so randomised you cant get the gear you need to move up to higher level monsters.
its retarded
you then goto the auction house, drop 10k and you progress in the game.
Why?
because other people have exactly the same kind of BS problem and are selling their shitty items so they can afford better items themselves.
The game is no longer about killing and looting, its aobut finding items other people want, selling them for nothing to buy one op item (compared to the rest of your gear) to progress.
My first HC char took me *ages* to get to lvl 60 without AH. My more recent hero i used the AH ... so much less fun got to 60 faster ... but by then the game isnt about gearing up its about speed running for legendary i intend to sell for 2 mill to then buy gear i need.
I may as well be buying and selling on ebay.
I am glad the AH is going because it will force them to fix the real problem .. the drop rates.
Am very curious to see what the sink for gold will be though ... i bet they readd it once they fix the actual game to make it as fun as it could be.
MP10 HC is fun though provided u dont use AH.
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The real problem here is this:
Current selffound is too hard. If they buff it so that you can progress in game without trading, existence or non-existence of AH will NOT have any direct effect on it. Your gameplay is exactly same when you cant trade as when you choose not to trade.
If AH would be kept in game, players would be thanks to loot 2.0 progressing naturally fast, but with additional extra buff from AH. Thats still not affecting players whop choose not to use AH. The problem is that AH users would be progressing so fast thay they would eventually start asking for increase of difficulty and new challenges.
At that point Blizzard would have choice to please AH haters and keep game as it is, or please AH users and increase diffulty - making selfound play once again insufficient.
This is vicious never-ending circle with no existing solution to please both groups.
Possible solutions are 3:
1) Making separate modes with and without AH. This however would be stupid as players would no doubt often regret their choice of mode without an ability to switch. It would most likely require separate balancing and would be overall too much work for Blizzard.
2) The easiest solution is to simply shut down AH. Some will like it, some will adjust and some will move to d2jsp. Cant say no harm done but it hardly requires any work from Blizz yet keeping most relatively pleased.
3) Introducing ladder season as in D2, while keeping AH and adding PvP. This is no doubt THE BEST solution. Shorter ladder seasons could be adjusted for selfound players, while PvP would kept AH users away from too much thinking about need for increased difficulty in PvE. Ladder resets would also prove to be best option for new comers, rather than coming into fully grown economy where new players pretty much can not do a shit. Current game is much less friendly to new comers than to selffound players. Ladder resets would keep everyone interested just as they did in D2, would prove to be good enough excuse for removing RMAH and with addition of season milestones just like SC2 has I cant imagine this would make anyone complain not even a little.
Devs have choosen middle-good/easiest solution. Option 3 would most definitelly be shitloads of work for them, but by a fucking far best for game.
Lazy bastards xD
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On September 21 2013 01:13 MoonfireSpam wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 11:11 Taguchi wrote:
Enter AH: It's right there, in your face. The time required for market research and finding a seller is no more. Everyone and their mother uses it, as opposed to traditional forum / tradechat where only a small part of the total population used it. The hardcore gamers gear up in no time at all. The casuals can feed off the hardcores who farm loot at vastly greater rates than them and are willing to sell it dirt cheap, since they got so much of it. The economy is driven into the ground in no time at all.
Only small percent used it because most people don't want to play "chase a buyer/seller" and do that market research shit, I would rather do it in real life if I'm going to commit time like that. They said it themselves that the game should be about killing shit and getting loots. Keep both, make good loot easy to find (i.e. like Meph runs in D2) and super awesome loot still rare. People can still trade easily, and awesome items still retain value until bots or dupe. Example: I want to buy enchanting mats. I could do onto the AH, pick one up quick. Or without it spam trade chat, or post on a forum, waste more time bartering, waste some time with seller that is late / doesn't show up.
The point is that trading is vastly more efficient than simply finding loot yourself and if everyone trades, droprates MUST be adjusted so the game isn't retardedly easy and therefore unfun. AH makes it so everyone will trade. Removing AH makes it so not everyone will trade. The droprate adjustment can be a lot less severe if, by design, a small part of the game's population will look to trade.
It's that simple.
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Should have never been there in the first place, but I thank it for paying my bills and getting me a new car while it was here.
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On September 21 2013 02:20 Sek-Kuar wrote:
Possible solutions are 3:
1) Making separate modes with and without AH. This however would be stupid as players would no doubt often regret their choice of mode without an ability to switch. It would most likely require separate balancing and would be overall too much work for Blizzard.
2) The easiest solution is to simply shut down AH. Some will like it, some will adjust and some will move to d2jsp. Cant say no harm done but it hardly requires any work from Blizz yet keeping most relatively pleased.
3) Introducing ladder season as in D2, while keeping AH and adding PvP. This is no doubt THE BEST solution. Shorter ladder seasons could be adjusted for selfound players, while PvP would kept AH users away from too much thinking about need for increased difficulty in PvE. Ladder resets would also prove to be best option for new comers, rather than coming into fully grown economy where new players pretty much can not do a shit. Current game is much less friendly to new comers than to selffound players. Ladder resets would keep everyone interested just as they did in D2, would prove to be good enough excuse for removing RMAH and with addition of season milestones just like SC2 has I cant imagine this would make anyone complain not even a little.
Option 3 is pretty much what is going to happen with the exception of keeping in the Auction House. Although they cannot have too short of a ladder system since it is suppose to work with the paragon system (as in, in ladder, whatever paragon experience you gain transfers over to ~ladder afterwards), Blizzard is adding a ladder system that has a fresh new economy while separating Sc and Hc.
Blizzard most likely does not want to take the chance with Auction House and Loot 2.0. The issue arises with the drop rate since with loot 2.0, less items will drop but are allegedly epicly better. So there is still a good chance people will end up using it the way it was used currently.
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On September 21 2013 06:42 Nilrem wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:20 Sek-Kuar wrote:
Possible solutions are 3:
1) Making separate modes with and without AH. This however would be stupid as players would no doubt often regret their choice of mode without an ability to switch. It would most likely require separate balancing and would be overall too much work for Blizzard.
2) The easiest solution is to simply shut down AH. Some will like it, some will adjust and some will move to d2jsp. Cant say no harm done but it hardly requires any work from Blizz yet keeping most relatively pleased.
3) Introducing ladder season as in D2, while keeping AH and adding PvP. This is no doubt THE BEST solution. Shorter ladder seasons could be adjusted for selfound players, while PvP would kept AH users away from too much thinking about need for increased difficulty in PvE. Ladder resets would also prove to be best option for new comers, rather than coming into fully grown economy where new players pretty much can not do a shit. Current game is much less friendly to new comers than to selffound players. Ladder resets would keep everyone interested just as they did in D2, would prove to be good enough excuse for removing RMAH and with addition of season milestones just like SC2 has I cant imagine this would make anyone complain not even a little. Option 3 is pretty much what is going to happen with the exception of keeping in the Auction House. Although they cannot have too short of a ladder system since it is suppose to work with the paragon system (as in, in ladder, whatever paragon experience you gain transfers over to ~ladder afterwards), Blizzard is adding a ladder system that has a fresh new economy while separating Sc and Hc. Blizzard most likely does not want to take the chance with Auction House and Loot 2.0. The issue arises with the drop rate since with loot 2.0, less items will drop but are allegedly epicly better. So there is still a good chance people will end up using it the way it was used currently.
The problem is, as I meantioned in earlier post, that with Loot 2.0 they are also promising better itemization and increased item diversity in builds.
That being said, you will be getting better items than now, but lesser of then useful for your own char. You will end up stacking full stash of epic items for characters and builds you dont want to play...
People should realize that the only time when trading is not needed is when they are willing to either throw away awesome items they dont have use for at that moment or when all characters and all builds use same items. While itemization in current state is pure shit, its still not that bad that all builds could use exactly same items... And since they are promising to make things better, the necessity of trading will only increase.
Honestly if they really end up making ladders, removing AH is just retarded. No reason for that at all.
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On September 21 2013 02:31 Taguchi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 01:13 MoonfireSpam wrote:On September 20 2013 11:11 Taguchi wrote:
Enter AH: It's right there, in your face. The time required for market research and finding a seller is no more. Everyone and their mother uses it, as opposed to traditional forum / tradechat where only a small part of the total population used it. The hardcore gamers gear up in no time at all. The casuals can feed off the hardcores who farm loot at vastly greater rates than them and are willing to sell it dirt cheap, since they got so much of it. The economy is driven into the ground in no time at all.
Only small percent used it because most people don't want to play "chase a buyer/seller" and do that market research shit, I would rather do it in real life if I'm going to commit time like that. They said it themselves that the game should be about killing shit and getting loots. Keep both, make good loot easy to find (i.e. like Meph runs in D2) and super awesome loot still rare. People can still trade easily, and awesome items still retain value until bots or dupe. Example: I want to buy enchanting mats. I could do onto the AH, pick one up quick. Or without it spam trade chat, or post on a forum, waste more time bartering, waste some time with seller that is late / doesn't show up. The point is that trading is vastly more efficient than simply finding loot yourself and if everyone trades, droprates MUST be adjusted so the game isn't retardedly easy and therefore unfun. AH makes it so everyone will trade. Removing AH makes it so not everyone will trade. The droprate adjustment can be a lot less severe if, by design, a small part of the game's population will look to trade. It's that simple.
My prediction is this will happen:
Decent gear will be easy to find through buffed drop rates (like like how it is on the AH at the moment). Everyone gears up at roughly equivalent speeds (remember if you start with 0 gold, it would still take some time to buy yourself stuff). There is almost no market for this level of gear, so it all gets vendored or disenchanted or sold for fuck all (like now).
Many people will find one AWESOME (think perfect quadfecta amulet or something) item that won't be for their class.
Now we go two ways:
1a. Trade spam. b. Forums c. Paypal+/-scam
2. Go on an AH -> sell -> buy with gold/$$$.
To turn a phrase, if Blizzard gets the penis right on the G-spot then I agree, nobody will need the AH. If they miss, then everyone is in for an awkward time of finishing themselves off in the bathroom while the other half sleeps. We should probably just agree to disagree.
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On September 21 2013 08:14 MoonfireSpam wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:31 Taguchi wrote:On September 21 2013 01:13 MoonfireSpam wrote:On September 20 2013 11:11 Taguchi wrote:
Enter AH: It's right there, in your face. The time required for market research and finding a seller is no more. Everyone and their mother uses it, as opposed to traditional forum / tradechat where only a small part of the total population used it. The hardcore gamers gear up in no time at all. The casuals can feed off the hardcores who farm loot at vastly greater rates than them and are willing to sell it dirt cheap, since they got so much of it. The economy is driven into the ground in no time at all.
Only small percent used it because most people don't want to play "chase a buyer/seller" and do that market research shit, I would rather do it in real life if I'm going to commit time like that. They said it themselves that the game should be about killing shit and getting loots. Keep both, make good loot easy to find (i.e. like Meph runs in D2) and super awesome loot still rare. People can still trade easily, and awesome items still retain value until bots or dupe. Example: I want to buy enchanting mats. I could do onto the AH, pick one up quick. Or without it spam trade chat, or post on a forum, waste more time bartering, waste some time with seller that is late / doesn't show up. The point is that trading is vastly more efficient than simply finding loot yourself and if everyone trades, droprates MUST be adjusted so the game isn't retardedly easy and therefore unfun. AH makes it so everyone will trade. Removing AH makes it so not everyone will trade. The droprate adjustment can be a lot less severe if, by design, a small part of the game's population will look to trade. It's that simple. My prediction is this will happen: Decent gear will be easy to find through buffed drop rates (like like how it is on the AH at the moment). Everyone gears up at roughly equivalent speeds (remember if you start with 0 gold, it would still take some time to buy yourself stuff). There is almost no market for this level of gear, so it all gets vendored or disenchanted or sold for fuck all (like now). Many people will find one AWESOME (think perfect quadfecta amulet or something) item that won't be for their class. Now we go two ways: 1a. Trade spam. b. Forums c. Paypal+/-scam 2. Go on an AH -> sell -> buy with gold/$$$. To turn a phrase, if Blizzard gets the penis right on the G-spot then I agree, nobody will need the AH. If they miss, then everyone is in for an awkward time of finishing themselves off in the bathroom while the other half sleeps. We should probably just agree to disagree.
Keep in mind that the drop rates are not being buffed, they are being nerfed. The quality of the items are being buffed. So in a way, if drops across the board are buffed, it would be looked at a drop rate buff in terms of usefulness. Furthermore, Loot 2.0 will be adding a sort of smart drop system where although not 100% controlled, the drops will be catered toward your hero.
Blizzard is also looking into the means by which we will trade without the Auction House. Considering the whole removal has only just now been revealed, we will not hear of any potential upgrade to the system for quite some time. I am sure we are all well aware of how slow Blizzard is with their b.net 2.0.
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On September 21 2013 08:20 Nilrem wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 08:14 MoonfireSpam wrote:On September 21 2013 02:31 Taguchi wrote:On September 21 2013 01:13 MoonfireSpam wrote:On September 20 2013 11:11 Taguchi wrote:
Enter AH: It's right there, in your face. The time required for market research and finding a seller is no more. Everyone and their mother uses it, as opposed to traditional forum / tradechat where only a small part of the total population used it. The hardcore gamers gear up in no time at all. The casuals can feed off the hardcores who farm loot at vastly greater rates than them and are willing to sell it dirt cheap, since they got so much of it. The economy is driven into the ground in no time at all.
Only small percent used it because most people don't want to play "chase a buyer/seller" and do that market research shit, I would rather do it in real life if I'm going to commit time like that. They said it themselves that the game should be about killing shit and getting loots. Keep both, make good loot easy to find (i.e. like Meph runs in D2) and super awesome loot still rare. People can still trade easily, and awesome items still retain value until bots or dupe. Example: I want to buy enchanting mats. I could do onto the AH, pick one up quick. Or without it spam trade chat, or post on a forum, waste more time bartering, waste some time with seller that is late / doesn't show up. The point is that trading is vastly more efficient than simply finding loot yourself and if everyone trades, droprates MUST be adjusted so the game isn't retardedly easy and therefore unfun. AH makes it so everyone will trade. Removing AH makes it so not everyone will trade. The droprate adjustment can be a lot less severe if, by design, a small part of the game's population will look to trade. It's that simple. My prediction is this will happen: Decent gear will be easy to find through buffed drop rates (like like how it is on the AH at the moment). Everyone gears up at roughly equivalent speeds (remember if you start with 0 gold, it would still take some time to buy yourself stuff). There is almost no market for this level of gear, so it all gets vendored or disenchanted or sold for fuck all (like now). Many people will find one AWESOME (think perfect quadfecta amulet or something) item that won't be for their class. Now we go two ways: 1a. Trade spam. b. Forums c. Paypal+/-scam 2. Go on an AH -> sell -> buy with gold/$$$. To turn a phrase, if Blizzard gets the penis right on the G-spot then I agree, nobody will need the AH. If they miss, then everyone is in for an awkward time of finishing themselves off in the bathroom while the other half sleeps. We should probably just agree to disagree. Keep in mind that the drop rates are not being buffed, they are being nerfed. The quality of the items are being buffed. So in a way, if drops across the board are buffed, it would be looked at a drop rate buff in terms of usefulness. Furthermore, Loot 2.0 will be adding a sort of smart drop system where although not 100% controlled, the drops will be catered toward your hero. Blizzard is also looking into the means by which we will trade without the Auction House. Considering the whole removal has only just now been revealed, we will not hear of any potential upgrade to the system for quite some time. I am sure we are all well aware of how slow Blizzard is with their b.net 2.0.
That it true, hence why I used the example of near perfect items that most players I'm sure have never seen.
I guess my main point is: leaving the AH is almost a failsafe for anything lacking in Loot 2.0 because people could at least still gear up / trade with ease.
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I got mixed feelings about this. Obviously most people want to see the AH gone.
But this will (without a proper replacement) lead to a two class society: those who trade and those who don't. The AH gave everyone a chance to trade and over time they would pay a "fair" price. Now it will become harder to know the "price" (w/e the currency will be) of an item.
It concerns me that people are willing to give up an open and transparent marketplace for nothing.
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it was not the ah that brake the game, it was the one of the good things about d3 by design. if only they had real goldsinks, good itemization and decent ah ui to go with it would have been great. i was sure i will be getting the expansion but I am starting to change my mind
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in d2 we had to trade with people by hosting/joining/spamming etc. Over time the economy got worse but it took years. The auction house in d3 just acted as a catalyst, it really sped up the process by making trading super easy. So basically they're nerfing trading so the economy doesnt collapse super fast.
Isnt it possible to make the game good with an auction house? (and without bind-on-account shit)
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On September 22 2013 02:46 Assault_1 wrote:
in d2 we had to trade with people by hosting/joining/spamming etc. Over time the economy got worse but it took years. The auction house in d3 just acted as a catalyst, it really sped up the process by making trading super easy. So basically they're nerfing trading so the economy doesnt collapse super fast.
Isnt it possible to make the game good with an auction house? (and without bind-on-account shit)
the obvious problem are botters whenever you got something farmable which is easily obtainable.
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On September 22 2013 02:43 Hryul wrote:
I got mixed feelings about this. Obviously most people want to see the AH gone.
But this will (without a proper replacement) lead to a two class society: those who trade and those who don't. The AH gave everyone a chance to trade and over time they would pay a "fair" price. Now it will become harder to know the "price" (w/e the currency will be) of an item.
It concerns me that people are willing to give up an open and transparent marketplace for nothing.
D2 was the same way, but you really never felt like you absolutely needed to trade for items, cause you could play solo to 99 and do your own meph / farm runs and be perfectly content, which a vast majority of people were, since by design, manual trading would turn off a large majority of players.
My proposition would be to simply make a "marketplace" gametype, throws a few dozen / hundred people into a map, and you could set up a player shop like some MMOs (Aion) do. Therefore it's a mostly automated system and takes out the stuff people don't want to do with regards to manual trading. The said map could have adjusted rules to prevent people from dropping items on the ground to minimize scam risks. At the same time, it's less accessible and opens up opportunities for bartering / trading if a player has something you want, but you can't afford their price / have something else.
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If they remove the AH they should raise the players per game cap.
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I disagree with the removal of the AH for several reasons. The first problem is that gold will go right back to being more or less worthless, just as it was in D2. So far the only game that I've seen avoid this problem entirely is Path of Exile, which uses a "barter currency" system where all of the currency items are also useful consumables. The AH at least shaved a small amount of money out of the system constantly. The second problem is that d2jsp is so well established that it's conceivable that the bulk of the trades that used to happen on the AH will just move over to d2jsp.
It's a pointless gesture that will create more problems than it solves (what happens to One With Everything, for example?)
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I like it. It means I will not trade at all, which is great because I might find loot I like.
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On September 23 2013 09:33 Mysticesper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 02:43 Hryul wrote:
I got mixed feelings about this. Obviously most people want to see the AH gone.
But this will (without a proper replacement) lead to a two class society: those who trade and those who don't. The AH gave everyone a chance to trade and over time they would pay a "fair" price. Now it will become harder to know the "price" (w/e the currency will be) of an item.
It concerns me that people are willing to give up an open and transparent marketplace for nothing. D2 was the same way, but you really never felt like you absolutely needed to trade for items, cause you could play solo to 99 and do your own meph / farm runs and be perfectly content, which a vast majority of people were, since by design, manual trading would turn off a large majority of players. My proposition would be to simply make a "marketplace" gametype, throws a few dozen / hundred people into a map, and you could set up a player shop like some MMOs (Aion) do. Therefore it's a mostly automated system and takes out the stuff people don't want to do with regards to manual trading. The said map could have adjusted rules to prevent people from dropping items on the ground to minimize scam risks. At the same time, it's less accessible and opens up opportunities for bartering / trading if a player has something you want, but you can't afford their price / have something else.
you can also reach plvl 100 in d3 on your own. it will just take longer on mp3 than mp10. I don't think they will replace the AH with another automated system.
The core problem, that people touched here too, is that the basic system is a problem since there is a constant influx of items, but no inherent loss of items. this leads to the "bigger, faster, stronger" mentality that "forced" people into the AH but leads to the frustration of not finding anything for yourself.
D2 simply solved this with the ladder reset, WoW with new raids. Until D3 implements something similar, the same problems as today will surface, just at a later point in time.
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I'm glad it's gone, although I never used it for buying in the first place.
I hope without AH and with "Loot 2.0" a lot more builds will be viable playing selffound (which I expect most people to play afterwards)
Let's face it, all those builds that are talked about frequently (Barb WW, Wiz CM/freeze etc.) aren't even feasible without the AH to run efficiently (perma WW e.g.)
I played Diablo 1 solo when it release and skipped D2 because I wasn't looking for something to grind out. For me the most fun about Skills in Diablo has always been combining the Skills and Items you randomly found to maximize efficiency, not to read some guide and buy stuff for some million gold and do what everybody else is doing..
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They just need to fix the market of the AH being flooded by items from the mass farmers that undercut any normal player. So many better options possible then just removing the AH, if it's there doesn't mean you have to use it. Just give some rewards for players using self found/ traded stuff only so they don't feel bad playing on MP1 while the AH users play at MP5 or whatever.
The super high end players will trade instead of find their stuff anyway.
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Mixed feelings, for sure.
I think it's a good thing for people who love the Diablo series, and want to get back that feeling of hunting for your own items in D2 and finding that awesome, build changing epic. On the other hand, it's going to make any sort of trading really difficult. If this is accompanied with a serious chat overhaul and other ways to make it easier to get in touch with people for trading, it will be even better. As it is, it will just drive trading (and ultimately, selling) back to the third party sites like d2jsp. Providing a way for people NOT to have to do that was one of the biggest reasons for the AH in the first place.
We'll see I guess, there's so many other changes that maybe/are going into this expansion that we won't really know for sure until after it's out, I think.
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Unless a lot has changed since I last played the game, when the AH was basically the entire point of the game, I just don't see why anyone would play the game without the AH, not to mention how they would get through the game on inferno.
Actually, if they fix the loot system like they promised, then I guess that will fix the problem I highlighted in my first sentence.
Still, totally removing it? I just don't know about that.
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interesting article on diablo.incgamers.com. i won't quote it all, but here is a taste of the conclusion.
Frankly, I’m surprised they’re dumping the AH entirely. I don’t think the current economy is ideal, but I thought their plans for RoS and Loot 2.0 were going to shake things up nicely. Better drop rates plus a lot of binding on top gear would have made self finding much more viable, and they could have left the AH active to provide convenient exchange of commodities and low/mid level item sales/trading.
It seems to me that dumping it entirely was perhaps an overreaction, at least partially (and wisely) meant as a PR move. Blizzard knew that many players blamed the AH for D3′s problems, so while limiting or modifying it might have been more viable for the long term Loot 2.0 economy, the devs went for a more dramatic and headline-grabbing.
http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/diablo-3s-auction-house-went-straight-hell#more-370829
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Seems about right. I'm also assuming the RMAH transactions had dropped off enough that blizz wasn't really making as much money as they hoped so shutting it down when they could cite reasons that weren't "well it costs us money" was something they jumped on.
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I wouldn't be too surprised (or upset really) if they only partially abolished it and just removed gear trading. The trading of things like gems, mats, etc. is still useful and I find that that facet of the AH doesn't affect the overall community attitude toward the AH as the buying of gear itself does.
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On September 25 2013 02:28 dAPhREAk wrote:interesting article on diablo.incgamers.com. i won't quote it all, but here is a taste of the conclusion. Show nested quote +Frankly, I’m surprised they’re dumping the AH entirely. I don’t think the current economy is ideal, but I thought their plans for RoS and Loot 2.0 were going to shake things up nicely. Better drop rates plus a lot of binding on top gear would have made self finding much more viable, and they could have left the AH active to provide convenient exchange of commodities and low/mid level item sales/trading.
It seems to me that dumping it entirely was perhaps an overreaction, at least partially (and wisely) meant as a PR move. Blizzard knew that many players blamed the AH for D3′s problems, so while limiting or modifying it might have been more viable for the long term Loot 2.0 economy, the devs went for a more dramatic and headline-grabbing. http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/diablo-3s-auction-house-went-straight-hell#more-370829
That's pretty obvious to me, as I said.
On September 19 2013 07:24 Big G wrote:
I understand their decision but I think it is demagogy before anything else. Loot 2.0 will solve most of the issues, and at that point the AH isn't nearly as mandatory as it is now, so it's just not worth the resulting effort and nuisances. Blizzard is just seizing the opportunity for the huge positive feedback.
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I don't really understand the hate.
In reality, the game is gear centric, and heavily biased at Inferno. Loot drops, good loot drops are excessively rare. Your almost never going to gear your own characters completely. The AH was the only real solution to many of those problems for most gamers, and the quality of gear needed to play at the highest levels could only reasonably be covered by AH. I blame the games Itemization system more than the AH.
In reality, there will be RM transactions, Blizzard's AH attempted to get out ahead of it, and provide a safe means for others to take advantage, at least those that wanted to use it. Was it the best idea? No clue, but there was going to be a market one way or another. I don't begrudge Blizzard trying to preempt the market.
Killing the AH completely is a gross overreaction.
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Removing the AH gives the game back to the players who can / want to put 1000 hrs playtime into their character. These are the people Blizzard has listen to. But Diablo is a casual game for most of its 10,000,000+ players and removing the AH will severely limit what the majority of players can achieve in the time they have available.
I enjoy the AH but have also put a fair bit of time in (2 x P100 characters). I have never spent real money in the game but have had fun seeing how much gold I can make trading stuff. I'm pretty sad the AH is going. I will play the expansion but as soon as the upgrades start to dry up I can't see myself having any motivation to play at all. Hopefully they will put something in to keep me as interested in the game as the AH has.
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I haven't played Diablo III for a year or so. None of the patches caused me to take a second look at the game.
This single change makes me want to play again.
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On September 25 2013 07:08 ErrantJoe wrote:
Removing the AH gives the game back to the players who can / want to put 1000 hrs playtime into their character. These are the people Blizzard has listen to. But Diablo is a casual game for most of its 10,000,000+ players and removing the AH will severely limit what the majority of players can achieve in the time they have available.
I enjoy the AH but have also put a fair bit of time in (2 x P100 characters). I have never spent real money in the game but have had fun seeing how much gold I can make trading stuff. I'm pretty sad the AH is going. I will play the expansion but as soon as the upgrades start to dry up I can't see myself having any motivation to play at all. Hopefully they will put something in to keep me as interested in the game as the AH has.
Playing the auction house isn't how ARPG's work. If you like stuff like that then you should go work on wallstreet. The AH sucked because you could make 10x more by staring at that and flipping shit than actually playing the game. Nobody (except wallet warriors) likes seeing some fuck who spent 800 dollars on his character with no time spent actually doing anything come in and obliterate stuff. It takes a lot of the motive for most people away. That coupled with a terrible party system, and a terrible chat system is what made the game bad for most people. Removal of the AH is only one step, but it is a step in the right direction.
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On September 26 2013 04:40 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:08 ErrantJoe wrote:
Removing the AH gives the game back to the players who can / want to put 1000 hrs playtime into their character. These are the people Blizzard has listen to. But Diablo is a casual game for most of its 10,000,000+ players and removing the AH will severely limit what the majority of players can achieve in the time they have available.
I enjoy the AH but have also put a fair bit of time in (2 x P100 characters). I have never spent real money in the game but have had fun seeing how much gold I can make trading stuff. I'm pretty sad the AH is going. I will play the expansion but as soon as the upgrades start to dry up I can't see myself having any motivation to play at all. Hopefully they will put something in to keep me as interested in the game as the AH has. Playing the auction house isn't how ARPG's work. If you like stuff like that then you should go work on wallstreet. The AH sucked because you could make 10x more by staring at that and flipping shit than actually playing the game. Nobody (except wallet warriors) likes seeing some fuck who spent 800 dollars on his character with no time spent actually doing anything come in and obliterate stuff. It takes a lot of the motive for most people away. That coupled with a terrible party system, and a terrible chat system is what made the game bad for most people. Removal of the AH is only one step, but it is a step in the right direction.
just because a few people were able to wall street the AH doesn't mean you should just scrap the entire project. its overkill.
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On September 26 2013 04:40 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:08 ErrantJoe wrote:
Removing the AH gives the game back to the players who can / want to put 1000 hrs playtime into their character. These are the people Blizzard has listen to. But Diablo is a casual game for most of its 10,000,000+ players and removing the AH will severely limit what the majority of players can achieve in the time they have available.
I enjoy the AH but have also put a fair bit of time in (2 x P100 characters). I have never spent real money in the game but have had fun seeing how much gold I can make trading stuff. I'm pretty sad the AH is going. I will play the expansion but as soon as the upgrades start to dry up I can't see myself having any motivation to play at all. Hopefully they will put something in to keep me as interested in the game as the AH has. Playing the auction house isn't how ARPG's work. If you like stuff like that then you should go work on wallstreet. The AH sucked because you could make 10x more by staring at that and flipping shit than actually playing the game. Nobody (except wallet warriors) likes seeing some fuck who spent 800 dollars on his character with no time spent actually doing anything come in and obliterate stuff. It takes a lot of the motive for most people away. That coupled with a terrible party system, and a terrible chat system is what made the game bad for most people. Removal of the AH is only one step, but it is a step in the right direction.
And it was exactly the same with D2, but instead of browsing through AH you browsed through trade offers finding good deals. Actually in my opinion it was even worse in D2 because at least AH gives seller good search filters so you can easily check approximately how much are the modifiers you got worth.
Honestly i see no good reasons for removing AH and i think most people who want it gone are either:
1) people who haven't played D2 and don't know how many bigger issues it had with "typical" trade system (especially duping runes and SOJs being worth nothing)
2) scammers, because the biggest and most noticeable difference between D2 trading and D3 AH is that it's way easier to scam in D2
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On September 26 2013 04:40 Infernal_dream wrote:
Playing the auction house isn't how ARPG's work.
Playing the AH is one way of enjoying Diablo III, I guess this means that it doesn't fit your label of a pure ARPG. It would be a shame if game development was limited by such labels.
The more important point is that the AH makes farming more meaningful. No matter what loot system is implemented eventually the self found upgrades will dry up. Having the AH to process my loot is pretty much the only thing that keeps me playing.
I think that a Diablo ladder system without AH and non-ladder with AH would be a good balance I wonder why they didn't do this they must have considered it.
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I sure hope progressing through content will be possible without the AH. It took sheer luck to get a decent weapon drop without exploiting prior to the huge 1.3 nerf and the tons of changes after that.
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Seems just like more Blizzard BS to me.
They do a terrible job with D3 and wait for the expansion to make the changes the community has been asking for so they can sell more, as they can probably see their current playerbase is low.
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On September 26 2013 23:34 Souone wrote:
Seems just like more Blizzard BS to me.
They do a terrible job with D3 and wait for the expansion to make the changes the community has been asking for so they can sell more, as they can probably see their current playerbase is low.
And, what is the issue? You do realize generally speaking, that is what software based companies (and various other sorts) end up doing to sell (or lease) their products. Companies generally will make decisions that will bring in more profit; sure they may do it because they care as well but one must never forget that money is also an integral part of the system.
Blizzard made a game and it ended up hurting them. Now, they are making another gamble and across the board (from my perspective), this has elicited a positive response with the negative being the minority. Although not a good representation of the general populous, at least on the B.net forums, more have said they are now considering getting RoS because of this change compared to those that said they wont. Considering this is a for profit company, as of now, it has been a wise decision.
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I like the idea, although the ones who made many billions over will still have a corner on the trade market. So all in all damage is still brutal.
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no mixed feelings, fuck ah. 300 hours and one green, 2 shit uniques. cant get gold enough for crafting or ah without flipping crap on the ah. cant farm because defensive gear, cant upgrade on ah cause cant farm. every second spent on ah feels like raping my throat with broken glass, every second spent playing builds a black cloud of fury from not getting jack shit out of it.
pre inferno nerf, stopped playing there.
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The reason why I dont like removing AH is because of items like this:
![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/a/img707/8738/0rlm.jpg)
What will happen to them if there is no AH? Its quite obvious that they all will be lost forever... Vendored, salvaged or muled deep down and forgotten.
I do understand why people have issues with AH - the truth is that as long as people are stupid, trading will always be best way to make money...
I do remember myself playing D2 back in 2004, when I actually found jewel 40%ED 15 Ias - and solt it for 1 Ist... Few days after I realized it was actually warth about 40-50 Ists. Ups?! You think that nobody ever made bad trade? Thats how we learn to trade - removing trading is not a solution, its questionable if that even can be considered real problem.
But - as I said - I do understand why some see issue in here... Still, removing AH is like back in time when they "solved" that people were doing nothing but smoke screening their way to resp chests by making it that chests drops are not affected by MF...
Hello?!? WTF? You seriously call this solution??? After some time Blizzard fixed actual problem with game (i.e. that is was not worth to be actually playing game...) and reversed chests MF restrictions to its current state, which is actually good.
Removing AH is same - its about as good solution to current problems as removing MP levels would be - yea, if you do that, people will have OK time clearing all inferno MP0 with selfound gear, which is totally OK pretty much even without Loot2. Its still not a fucking solution. You cant constantly try to "solve" problems be removing game features that brings them to light. Thats just retarded.
Today I spend over 1/2 hour persuading one kid that could not speak english to sell me this ring he was wearing in game:
![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/a/img713/344/c84s.jpg)
I play on EuHC and did close it up on 500k gold and some items (about 1M in total), which was actually fair offer. Considering that ring Cleave Band showed above I won on AH for sick 80k gold (in my defense I did put over 5M max bid there). This ring is worth maybe up to 2M. Hard to say on lvl 8, can be much less... But thats not the point.
The point is that if you remove AH, all those items will be lost. Because people are stupid, just like they were in D2... In D2 most people were picking like only legendary items, despite fact that most legendary items had close to zero value. OFC itemization in D2 was like 1000 times better than in D3, but you could find in Act 2 normal magic Large charm 15 Life 12 Attack Rating and get like 500x Shako for it... Or fully equiped end game char with Enigma, Infi, high CTA and HotO and decent Anni and Torch.
I do understand that not everyone there has 10++ years experiences playing Diablo series, but let me tell you something: Removing AH will not solve anything, it will only sweep under rug certains parts of game Blizzard dont want to deal with. At the same time it will absolutely, totally and once for all kill all game before highest level. And not just that, it will also reduce itemization on highest level.
D2 had 1000 times better itemization than D3 has, but at the same time it was so hard to trade there that most people had absolutely no idea what is good, what has value or so... Most people were so happy when they did find Shako, while people like me were picking magic, rare and even certain white (non-magic) items. Those could have been worth thousands times more.
If D3 looses its AH, most people will have close to zero idea about item value, which will 100% kill any game before max level (say good bye to LLD), also make trading harder on even impossible for new players (with AH unless you do totally retarded mistake - which does happen - you mostly get something close... Not like when I sold my 40/15 jewel for 1/50 of its value in D2).
I love my low level items. For low level dueling - and for leveling my chars on HC. If AH gets removed people will have zero chance of knowing and learning what is valuable, good and useful - most of really interesting items will be lost or perhaps not even picked up. Just like they were in D2.
Perhaps its just me - after well over 10 yers of Diablo playing - Im not so excited about constant exping all day long. Sometimes I want to go and explore, make best level 10 or level 25 WD - see what I can do, how good she can be. Duel without all having same boring legendary items.
With AH out, D3 will lose all of this beauty... Im not saying it will negatively affect paragon farming, but it will kill everything apart from that. All that will be left will be paragon exping - its even questionable if PvP can work. It did not work in D2 without trading... But I guess we will see right?
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Low level dueling always was about putting alot more effort and gold into your chars, so you could easily beat people who played more casual low level dueling... So yeah, I understand your logic, its just that we don't care about it since we don't share your fascination with it.
AH is the main reason this game is at its current state, so good fucking riddance. (I've made some hundreds of millions gold from AH myself. Still id rather do 5 bad trades in an oldschool system, than 5 great trades using the AH.)
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On October 08 2013 23:57 McNulty wrote:
Low level dueling always was about putting alot more effort and gold into your chars, so you could easily beat people who played more casual low level dueling... So yeah, I understand your logic, its just that we don't care about it since we don't share your fascination with it.
AH is the main reason this game is at its current state, so good fucking riddance. (I've made some hundreds of millions gold from AH myself. Still id rather do 5 bad trades in an oldschool system, than 5 great trades using the AH.)
Its not just about LLD, its that removing AH will kill anything but paragon exping. There will be no other thing in game than to mindlessly log in and try to get as much XP as fast as possible.
Dont have statistics OFC, but in D2 I have never noticed that many people for which leveling was sole purpose of game. There were some, but most liked other parts of game. At least that was my feeling, can be wrong obviously.
Not to mention that saying that AH is main reason for anything is retarded, HC has same AH as softcore and yet majority of problems people are talking about on softcore doesnt exist here or are small and marginal. Try to open your eyes, things WERE working, ARE working and could be working just find if Blizzard actually did come up with real solution to things you softcore guys are experiencing.
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Hardcore has the benefit of items being removed from the economy naturally, didn't have the early-game inferno exploits + other unbalanced stuff due to risk of dying, and a lot less people play, so there is a far more controlled AH experience, instead of everybody and their mothers posting thousands of nearly identical items up.
For most people, you are looking at a few oldschool trades instead of hundreds of AH transactions. That gap needs to be bridged somehow.
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Good points everyone. It made me think about how people use the AH extensively in HC when leveling characters (buying a new socket weapon every 10 levels). I guess hoarding will be the route to go. I already have a full tab just for leveling my Wizard whenever she dies. Let's hope for a guild stash!
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I don't feel the AH was the problem, I just feel the loot that dropped was such a high probability of being shit, that, in turn, led to everyone relying on the AH for upgrades.
Saying that though, I'm looking forward to seeing how RoS plays out without the AH.
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On October 09 2013 00:24 Mysticesper wrote:
Hardcore has the benefit of items being removed from the economy naturally, didn't have the early-game inferno exploits + other unbalanced stuff due to risk of dying, and a lot less people play, so there is a far more controlled AH experience, instead of everybody and their mothers posting thousands of nearly identical items up.
For most people, you are looking at a few oldschool trades instead of hundreds of AH transactions. That gap needs to be bridged somehow.
Not true. Since vanilla version game has (thankfully) changed so so much that current pool of items on AH comes exclusively from later patches. Nobody is selling plain 900 DPS magic weapons everyone was hyped about in 1.01 anymore.
Actually, Devs patched game difficulty and made legendaries the way they are now at the same time I believe, so current SC and HC started at about same time. None of vanilla exploits have any impact on current version of game. Yet SC is broken and HC is really good.
Also what you stated about number of players on HC is not true - it doesnt help. It actually makes things worse. Fewer people play HC, but all of them know how to play it. While SC is full of 12 years old kids with no idea how game works, and those can not find any items but do want same. AH items demand on HC is naturally smaller compared to SC due to that, not bigger.
The difference is almost only in death penalty and natural removal of items from economy. Im pretty sure if they would introduce ladder resets and add some sort of death penalty (gold + XP loss) on SC, 50+% of problems would be solved just like that in blink of an eye. And in extreme - if they would make mythic enchanting destroy items - and not just always make it always better, that would solve approximately 100% of what you guys are talking about and AH could stay.
Its just as I said - same as what was with Resplendent Chests hunts in earlier versions... They didnt want to fix real problem (=it was not worth playing game, so people were just exploiting smoke screen to get to chests all day long) so they simply removed MF from chests drops. And later, when they finally fixed problem and made game playable, they returned MF to chests - actually even buffed Resplendent Chests so they are now like elite packs. Same they do with AH - dont want to fix problem? Well simply remove it...
They are just lazy. Cant believe you guys can actually fall for such a cheap tricks...
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Need an option of 'I lost interest in D3 because of the cock up from the initial release'
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On October 10 2013 20:39 aka_star wrote:
Need an option of 'I lost interest in D3 because of the cock up from the initial release'
funny way of showing your disinterest.
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On October 10 2013 20:39 aka_star wrote:
Need an option of 'I lost interest in D3 because of the cock up from the initial release'
Nah. This isn't a poll of "who lost interest vs. who didn't". Just don't vote.
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Since you actually bothered posting, I guess there is SOME interest left in you still, aka_star.
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Russian Federation125 Posts
Ahahahahaha 73%. Such a zealotry.
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On October 11 2013 05:51 resoLVer1.0 wrote:
Ahahahahaha 73%. Such a zealotry.
the irony
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It's simple, if you want the trading game, play something else.
Diablo is about killing monsters and getting phat loot. Not about bartering.
I really enjoyed some parts of D3 but I just hated, hated how the game led you towards the AH. The looting became a minigame to the Auction House Game. Fuck that.
I never ever enjoyed or felt satisfaction, all those times when I used the AH. I was frustrated a lot, though.
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I think with the budget there's behind Diablo 3, the fact that it's a game for grown-ups, the number of active players, and the fact that it's a #3 in a series, they could go with something a bit scary: adding game modes.
When you create a character you have a few checkboxes:
- No AH mode
- Solo mode
- Self-drop mode
- Play with one hand mode
Combine each option and you have a ladder. That way each kind of player chooses what he wants to do. More players have the opportunity to be the best at what they do. Add weekly runs and stuff like that like PoE too.
But no instead it's a grind fest with 4 times the same story and segregation by server (ok that part has a bit of technical background behind it, just a bit though).
D2 had four kind of characters:
- Open - softcore
- Open - hardcore
- Ladder - softcore
- Ladder - hardcore
Open characters could be played locally in solo or multi (LAN!) and on battle.net. It was a bit of a hacked chars fest but who cares?
It's a game, give me game modes i can choose from instead of dictating a gameplay for a massive amount of people that are so different. And even if one of those mode is a shithole to some, maybe it's heaven to others.
Sooo, on topic. I'm for the removal as long as there's only one ladder, but i'm ten thousands time more for the addition of a no ah mode/ladder (at the very least) and no removal of what's in place.
How the fuck can they spend years of marketing effort selling us the AH and then suddenly say "ok people don't like that shit so we'll just throw it out and forget all the points we made, all the effort spent showing people it was the best thing since sliced bread".
+ Show Spoiler +Finished D1 again yesterday night. Now that's some crazy loot. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xx30xdU.png)
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EPT
