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Lesson's I've learned from Path of Exiles no auction house economy:
- Low supply low demand items get much of their value simply because they are hard to find. This adds in a whole new aspect to the economy. Players can flip items without scamming the other player. WOW! This is something that doesn't happen often in D3.
- Players are much more happy when they buy a good upgrade. The seller if happy too. The difficulty of trading makes buying a good upgrade feel like getting the same item from drops.
- There are no set prices. The price of an item is in each player's mind. This raises the skill ceiling in trading, moving it away from a mindless auction house economy.
- Lots of players simply don't like trading. Because of the difficulty of trading, it can often be more worth it just to farm nonstop and sell only the best items. A side effect of this is that many players don't sell most of their loot, so if you feel like selling there will be much more demand.
- Selling items gained through botting is much harder.
My respect for Blizzard has quadrupled with this announcement.
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Germany24 Posts
This is the first step to get me interested in the game again.
But i still will NOT be pre-ordering anything... had to learn that the hard way.
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Awful decision and a great decision.
Removing the RMAH is great.
Removing the Gold AH is bad.
And here is why. We need a currency to trade. In D2lod it was soj, then it was high runes. Now we will have nothing. Which means we need a currency in place. Guess what that means? D3JSP. Ugh. Say I find a great item for a barb. I play DH. Ok lemme trade it... but now I only want DH stuff. I might have to settle for LESS than what my item is worth in DH gear, because I don't have a currency.
It's like how the old old old market.diabloii.net was. You trade items for item offers. If you don't like it, you relist, and try to find what you want. It was tedious. Then you get currency, such as soj. Now I can sell a barb weapon for soj, and use soj to buy amazon items. I know what everything is worth so I dont get ripped off or have to take a lesser item.
I give you two cases
Case 1
I have item A. I get an offer for item B and C. I have no idea how to value it or compare it, if they are two different items for different characters.
Case 2
I have item A. Item A is worth $5. I get an offer for item B worth $4, and item C worth $5. I can compare and realize that even if C isn't something I can use, I can sell it for an equal amount. Or I can just sell item A for $5, and buy item C, or buy item B and have $1 left over.
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United States7166 Posts
they need to make gold valuable somehow and i'm not sure there's an easy solution for that
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Single-handedly best decision Blizzard made in YEARS.
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It's cool to see Blizzard reverse on some ideas albeit late.
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Another point I would like to add:
The auction house removes all interaction between players while trading. Isn't this basically the same thing as single player trading with a vendor? D3 is an online game, but I have never actually interacted with anyone in a meaningful, human way.
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removing the AH is a bad idea especially because there will be new leagues that reset every x months
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gonna be so much fun to spam 2 hours in a channel to get what I need
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now we just have d2sjp auction house--a shittier version of the real thing. poe trading is also absolutely atrocious.
i liked the fact that i can go on AH, find an upgrade, bid on it and come back later to pick it up (or bid on something else if i lose). researching the real value, finding comps, etc. was easy and i could play the game without focusing on trades or dealing with other people who want to scam you 85% of the time.
without AH, its either dont trade at all (which is fine if loot 2.0 actually works as intended) or devote yourself to trading rather than playing the game. its going to inhibit casual users from trading.
all in all, not really a big fan of removing AH...i could care less about RMAH because i don't use it.
On September 18 2013 04:56 KiWiKaKi wrote:
gonna be so much fun to spam 2 hours in a channel to get what I need
i just went on d2sjp....here are the threads
WTS
BUMP
BUMP
BUMP
BUMP
BUMP
BUMP
yes, thats a real improvement on AH.
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On September 18 2013 04:44 Zelniq wrote:
they need to make gold valuable somehow and i'm not sure there's an easy solution for that
Gold is quite useful for self-found users even now. Crafting ain't cheap and there'll be more gold sinks in RoS.
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at first, i was like "fuck yeah", but i have really mixed feelings about this.
- Are all those billions of gold that players have right now really completly useless in the expansion?
- I fear that it will simply flip over to d2jsp, which is basically the same, just with some ppl having 100000k+ FG so you wont get shit anyway starting there now.
They need to find some alternative to the AH. I honestly think the AH wasnt all that bad of a thing, if you remove the RMAH and start with a fresh economy, since there were a shitton of bug abuses at the beginning of the game.
The bot problem will always be there.
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On September 18 2013 04:56 KiWiKaKi wrote:
gonna be so much fun to spam 2 hours in a channel to get what I need
Trade chat is always a bad way to find upgrades in any game. I'm sure, out of need, a new system for filtering through potential upgrades will emerge. After this, the only part that is getting harder is agreeing on a price for the item, and getting both players in game at the same time.
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Best decision they've made so far, and probably the best decision they'll ever make regarding the future of the game.
Finding shit yourself is fun, that makes the game fun in the first place. It wasn't and isn't fun to enter stats and value to a search generator to find the items you need.
This is a very important, a very big step for the future of D3.
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the AH has a problem due to the sheer accessibility of it and everyone using it. The only way to keep rare items perceived as rare is to make their drop rate really small, which makes for a rather uninteresting game experience to play. Why bother playing when the hundreds of thousands of others have already put that item up. Self-found isn't much of an option, it won't give you console-drop rate balance, which just feels so much better.
Removing it allows the PC to have console-loot, since we all know 99% of the people won't engage in manual trading.
This is why the AH is great on paper -> easy trading for everyone, and it was. However it kind of killed the experience of playing, because if d2 drop rates existed in d3, there would be stupid amounts of legendaries on the AH, as if it wasn't flooded enough already.
They will need to implement trade lobbies / games somehow -> maybe a special "marketplace" game type which throws you into a city with dozens of other players.
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On September 18 2013 05:03 KalWarkov wrote:
- Are all those billions of gold that players have right now really completly useless in the expansion?
Many players have billions of gold. No players will have the new items that drop. They must implement gold sinks that remove billions of gold or players will just abandon gold all together and swap to an item barter based economy.
Gold has a value because you sell the current best items to get it, and thus you can buy the current best items to get it. Gold = Current best items. They are essentially the same thing. There is no reason why gold should retain its value while items become worthless.
In my opinion, an item wipe is required. Otherwise all pre-expansion items and gold will be worthless. The leagues will be a blank slate that will not have a fucked up economy.
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On September 18 2013 04:56 KiWiKaKi wrote:
gonna be so much fun to spam 2 hours in a channel to get what I need
If you feel like the name of the game is trading, then i have no arguments, sorry for your loss.
If not:
It should be in the game. Not on chat channel. To a degree of course, but the D3 system when you acquire high level gear through few hundreds of small-medium AH trades during the span of your character is plain stupid.
But everyone wants to play the way they want yeah? Well sure but clearly D3 loot was such garbage in terms of consistancy of acquiring every sane person would go to AH because throughout their few hundred hours of play they accounted few houndred of legendaries in which 99% of them were trash for THEM but not the others, is a problem.
Barring the lucky drop and real money usage thats how you obtain "legit wealth" in D3, through shitty drop system. This drop system makes you want to trade so much, because you need to get that load of trash monetized somehow.
Think of the big picture, in the big picture you will never let of the AH, in small picture yeah, you may find point in time when having AH would be convenient. But when i see my 300 hour char in D3 i see few hundreds trades i did on AH in quest of obtaning legit mp10 char, and honestly i still don't have truly legit mp10 char.
Honestly i was feeling more accomplished about my few day character in D2 i got him to hell, and i only traded once, to get weapon, neccesary for my build. When you need something you will get it, and if you posses something valuable there will be hundreds people who will want to trade.
The other part, probably bigger than AH, because it preceeds AH in a way. Is obtaining loot and joy or rather lack of joy from doing it in D3. I hope they will fix it. If not D3 will be Auction House game without Auction House and i will agree with all of you saying its bad decision.
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On September 18 2013 03:17 masterbreti wrote:
This is an awful decision by Blizzard. Why are they taking out the best part of the game just to appease a few people? It makes no sense to me.
For me the AH was an easy way to earn a bit of gold and be able to get items i needed and would take months to farm on my own. Now Gold is worthless, everything i farm is too, and it'll take me months to farm a single gem because I don't sit around playing all day in order to be able to farm one efficiently.
I won't be playing Diablo 3 anymore once this goes through. Waste of time now.
Because the AH is a conflicting feature to what the D2 experience really is, which is finding items, not grinding gold and then buying them. And they're not appeasing a few people, they're appeasing anyone who has ever played and enjoyed Diablo 2, whether or not those players even realize it. If this change is that significant to cause you to quit, well then its possible the Diablo franchise was never going to appeal to you anyways.
On September 18 2013 04:20 DeltruS wrote:Lesson's I've learned from Path of Exiles no auction house economy: - Low supply low demand items get much of their value simply because they are hard to find. This adds in a whole new aspect to the economy. Players can flip items without scamming the other player. WOW! This is something that doesn't happen often in D3.
- Players are much more happy when they buy a good upgrade. The seller if happy too. The difficulty of trading makes buying a good upgrade feel like getting the same item from drops.
- There are no set prices. The price of an item is in each player's mind. This raises the skill ceiling in trading, moving it away from a mindless auction house economy.
- Lots of players simply don't like trading. Because of the difficulty of trading, it can often be more worth it just to farm nonstop and sell only the best items. A side effect of this is that many players don't sell most of their loot, so if you feel like selling there will be much more demand.
- Selling items gained through botting is much harder.
My respect for Blizzard has quadrupled with this announcement.
These are the common experiences of finding and trading items in D2. Unlike D3, PoE actually stuck to the D2 formula which has been so widely successful in so many other games (I don't know if D2 copied something from somewhere else but they sure as hell popularized the shit out of it)
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EPT
