|
On September 21 2013 23:35 Monkeyballs25 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 21:11 Monsen wrote:
I'm surprised. I guess the RMAH revenues have trickled down to insignificant numbers. This comes way, way too late to be a "whoops, we made a mistake, the AH actually hurts the quality of the game" kinda move. Watch Blizzard reintroduce the AH "due to popular demand" after the hopeful masses have given them another chance. The best reason to wait for an expansion to remove the AH in 6 months rather than right now is that it involves a hefty gear reset anyway, so it'll be less disruptive.
Plus it keeps it clean on the business end of things. Investors and the accounting department will have time to settle with the change in income.
|
So, I'm wondering why the price for encrusted hoof is rising so much and I can't figure it out...Well, good for me as I sold 7k of them.
But still, I feel like I'm missing something. And the price for tears stays the same.
|
On October 05 2013 00:27 Soulmate wrote:
So, I'm wondering why the price for encrusted hoof is rising so much and I can't figure it out...Well, good for me as I sold 7k of them.
But still, I feel like I'm missing something. And the price for tears stays the same.
Probably low supply, increasing demand for lower level ladder/crusader crafted legendaries.
|
On September 21 2013 10:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 09:28 Cascade wrote:On September 21 2013 08:21 MoonfireSpam wrote:On September 20 2013 18:40 pedduck wrote:
On the second week of release, i found a socket immortal king. Sold it for something like 10 m and use that money to upgrade everything for my character. And since then, 99%of the upgrade come from AH not from my own loot. My diablo experience was to tried to sell and make the most of the AH as much as possible. After 2 or 3 months, i can not keep up with the inflation. I didnt make money fast enough so I can not upgrade my character. So at that time , I can only upgrade with a gear that were considered mid- low tier. Market was inflated with good item for inferno act 1-2. On the other hand , HI END gear become very expensive and out of reach now. I clock out at 400 hours on 4th or 5th month after game released.
I really enjoy the game especially the first 100 hours. The last 100 hours feel little bit boring.
What i want to say is the AH is the most powerful way to upgrade your character. It become the core of the game's experience. Player who were active in AH will go 10 time faster than player who just farm for them self. The game is tune to accomodate the AH, the drop rate, the difficulty. I would love to see item trading as part of the game not the core of the game.
I hope blizzard can find the middle ground for player who like the game this way and the player who dont like Ah. That was how shit went down in D2 as well (farm item you can't use, sell item, buy item you can use). Except you did it through forums or retarded chat channels or sitting in a trade game for hours. If people were so inclined, you could Stock Market (i.e. flip items repeatedly) yourself into wealth in D2 as well and gear up without acually playing the game. Except that the vast majority of D2 players didn't trade at all. TL is blowing my mind on what D2 was for other people... There was apparently a huge PvP population and very few people traded. How did people PvP with found gear against all of the enigma's/runeword items/super gear?
For me, and a lot of friends we usually just did Level 9 duels. Where you would get a character to level 9, twink him out, and duel in hardcore, winner gets all of your twink gear. So there was no super gear.
I don't know what that guy was saying about the majority not trading. Unless D2JSP really was just a minority of the population..
Edit: Even then, you'd see at least 4 - 5 trade games full of players, so I'm confused where that statement came from.
|
On September 21 2013 15:11 Black Gun wrote:
well, with the ah, picking up and selling low- to mid-tier items didnt have opportunity costs for highend players.
the top players farm at a faster rate than the rest, so they find more of those low- to midtier items than those other players. therefore, those items lose value rapidly while increasing the wealth of the already rich players. once the trailing guys have upgraded with midtier stuff, the gap between them and the rich players has increased and the rich players still farm at greater efficiency than them, so that it is still those guys who dominate the market and determine prices. the "perfection level boundaries" between low, mid and highend tier items are necessarily increasing over time in a game like d3, but the accessability of the ah had the consequence that the speed with which those boundaries grow is determined largely by the farming speed of the top players. in this sense, the ah facilitated a situation in which the poor are destined to remain forever poor unless they hit the jackpot and find that 2b item. another factor that contributed to this situation is that there is only "one sort" of highend items in d3.
contrast that to d2: what can be considered highend items was much more varied because of pvp and low level pvp. farming the place with the best exp/hour (throne of destruction) didnt allow to farm ALL top items at once. for rares, bossruns were better. for uniques, bossruns were better. for crafting materials, the usual runs were better, but picking up crafting materials would reduce efficiency of exp grinding. for socketables, the cow level was optimal. for low level dueling items, you were better off doing bossruns on lower difficulties.
the effect of this diversity in sellable gear, differnt kinds of highend gear and farming places meant that the top players couldnt cover all markets by doing just one sort of farming. picking up gems/skulls and crafting materials was not worth it to top players, but crafted items were BiS for some pvp situations. (block%, ias amus, bleed etc.) therefore, the top pvpers always had to rely on some poorer players to farm crafting materials for them. someone who specialised in lld/mld didnt farm the same places as top (ordinary) pvp guys or the ladder exp grind guys.
for these reasons, the item inflation was much less pronounced in d2 compared to d3. and the pace with which the gap between rich and poor players widens over time was much lower. and farming was more diverse, it offered true variety. and the item markets were more diverse, making trading more interesting. and the hassle of trade chats or d2jsp made flipping much harder, so that there was less "effortless profit".
these advantages of d2 farming compared to d3 farming can be attributed to three pillars in my eyes:
- pvp, because it increased the set of items that were potentially sought after by top players
- lack of an accessible ah, see first paragraph
- more crafting materials and farming places that were worthwhile to farm as a poor or mid-range player.
therefore, the shutdown of the ah is probably for the better, even though i will certainly miss how easy it made trades. but removing the ah wont save d3 singlehandedly, we also need to change itemization, so that a broader array of properties or items have their place in the game. and we need pvp, as it gives players an additional endgame goal besides exp grinding and helps with making more items useful and thus valuable.
Impressive summarization, could not agree more.
I just want to emphasize how important PGs were in D2, since you could get enough PGs to trade it for basic soloable Hell gear and do some MF PvE runs in just few days.
Text above however does miss one essential factor contributing to current problems. Unlike D2, which was much much MUCH more skill/char_build based and less gear dependant, D3 is almost all about gear.
That being said, poor players can invest literally 1000 hours into game yet have absolutely nothing guaranteed. In D2, time invested guaranteed increased strength thx to skill points, and thanks to to PGs and other even (not so important) gear was more accesible.
And finally, D3 is also fucking complicated. I myself have masters in chemistry, did attend to too many (in my eyes  ) math and physics lectures @university and yet between IAS, bugged Avg Dmg, Crit% and Crit Dmg there is fucking no telling what is item effect on DPS unless calculator. You never fucking know if 6% crit 40%CD is better or worse than 5,5% crit 45%CD, and even after calculator and choice you cant possibly stupidly preditct how is that going to change if you also upgrade your weapon. Perhaps with first weapon ring (A) was better choice, but with second weapon ring (B) might be better. D2 was so simple in this...
And its not just that D3 is fucking complicated beyond imagination, it also have another negative effect - thats to these complicated formulas where literally all items contribute to all characteristics of your character, it is nearly impossible to make any really meaningful upgrade with just 1 slot. In D2, it was worth having really good items and they did provide something. But thanks to how D3 works, having 1 insanely good and 11 crap items in useless and much worse than having 12 slightly above average items.... I hate how is D3 forcing you to sell really godly items, because you can not use them - like when you find godlike weapon but because you dont have enuf crit% on your rings, gloves and amu its not even worth equiping. All that again makes progress super annoying, because its not possible to build char step-by-step & slot-by-slot like you (kinda) could in D2, in D3 you have to upgrade all at once or its not even worth upgrading at all.
|
On September 18 2013 03:31 digmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 03:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:On September 18 2013 03:24 masterbreti wrote:On September 18 2013 03:21 digmouse wrote:On September 18 2013 03:17 masterbreti wrote:
This is an awful decision by Blizzard. Why are they taking out the best part of the game just to appease a few people? It makes no sense to me.
For me the AH was an easy way to earn a bit of gold and be able to get items i needed and would take months to farm on my own. Now Gold is worthless, everything i farm is too, and it'll take me months to farm a single gem because I don't sit around playing all day in order to be able to farm one efficiently.
I won't be playing Diablo 3 anymore once this goes through. Waste of time now. I'd like to see in which ways, Auction House is the "best part of the game". because it was the thrill of the AH that was the only selling point for me in buying D3. The thrill of getting a good deal on a pair of boots, or selling my gems at a really high price. those things were so much more fun then farming for hours on end just in the small chance of getting an item i won't even be able to use anyways. but i guess on the bright side, the RMT market will go up, and i'll end up selling my gold for a decent price. If there's still player-to-player trade, you can still get those thrills. You just have to do more than refresh the auction house over and over. And I believe there will be a place dedicated for player to do trades, it's hard to imagine that the void that the AH system was meant to place in remain untouched, Blizzard needs to control the econ/money flow of their game, and I think they want to.
If you think player to player trade will make up for the loss of the auction house, then you never understood it's appeal to begin with.
|
On October 05 2013 02:28 RagequitBM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 10:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 21 2013 09:28 Cascade wrote:On September 21 2013 08:21 MoonfireSpam wrote:On September 20 2013 18:40 pedduck wrote:
On the second week of release, i found a socket immortal king. Sold it for something like 10 m and use that money to upgrade everything for my character. And since then, 99%of the upgrade come from AH not from my own loot. My diablo experience was to tried to sell and make the most of the AH as much as possible. After 2 or 3 months, i can not keep up with the inflation. I didnt make money fast enough so I can not upgrade my character. So at that time , I can only upgrade with a gear that were considered mid- low tier. Market was inflated with good item for inferno act 1-2. On the other hand , HI END gear become very expensive and out of reach now. I clock out at 400 hours on 4th or 5th month after game released.
I really enjoy the game especially the first 100 hours. The last 100 hours feel little bit boring.
What i want to say is the AH is the most powerful way to upgrade your character. It become the core of the game's experience. Player who were active in AH will go 10 time faster than player who just farm for them self. The game is tune to accomodate the AH, the drop rate, the difficulty. I would love to see item trading as part of the game not the core of the game.
I hope blizzard can find the middle ground for player who like the game this way and the player who dont like Ah. That was how shit went down in D2 as well (farm item you can't use, sell item, buy item you can use). Except you did it through forums or retarded chat channels or sitting in a trade game for hours. If people were so inclined, you could Stock Market (i.e. flip items repeatedly) yourself into wealth in D2 as well and gear up without acually playing the game. Except that the vast majority of D2 players didn't trade at all. TL is blowing my mind on what D2 was for other people... There was apparently a huge PvP population and very few people traded. How did people PvP with found gear against all of the enigma's/runeword items/super gear? For me, and a lot of friends we usually just did Level 9 duels. Where you would get a character to level 9, twink him out, and duel in hardcore, winner gets all of your twink gear. So there was no super gear. I don't know what that guy was saying about the majority not trading. Unless D2JSP really was just a minority of the population.. Edit: Even then, you'd see at least 4 - 5 trade games full of players, so I'm confused where that statement came from.
I referred to the majority of players that played soon after (with a few years) of release. The people that still stuck around after a decade (which I guess is a small fraction of the players that bought the game) will be more hardcore, and will likely have a much higher ratio of trading D2JSP people etc. My original point was that I do not think that most people will not trade much without the AH, in chat channle or on JSP.
|
On October 05 2013 08:39 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 03:31 digmouse wrote:On September 18 2013 03:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:On September 18 2013 03:24 masterbreti wrote:On September 18 2013 03:21 digmouse wrote:On September 18 2013 03:17 masterbreti wrote:
This is an awful decision by Blizzard. Why are they taking out the best part of the game just to appease a few people? It makes no sense to me.
For me the AH was an easy way to earn a bit of gold and be able to get items i needed and would take months to farm on my own. Now Gold is worthless, everything i farm is too, and it'll take me months to farm a single gem because I don't sit around playing all day in order to be able to farm one efficiently.
I won't be playing Diablo 3 anymore once this goes through. Waste of time now. I'd like to see in which ways, Auction House is the "best part of the game". because it was the thrill of the AH that was the only selling point for me in buying D3. The thrill of getting a good deal on a pair of boots, or selling my gems at a really high price. those things were so much more fun then farming for hours on end just in the small chance of getting an item i won't even be able to use anyways. but i guess on the bright side, the RMT market will go up, and i'll end up selling my gold for a decent price. If there's still player-to-player trade, you can still get those thrills. You just have to do more than refresh the auction house over and over. And I believe there will be a place dedicated for player to do trades, it's hard to imagine that the void that the AH system was meant to place in remain untouched, Blizzard needs to control the econ/money flow of their game, and I think they want to. If you think player to player trade will make up for the loss of the auction house, then you never understood it's appeal to begin with.
I'm not sure Blizzard wants to fulfill that void actually.
My reasoning is pretty simple, they put in the RMAH because D2 players said it would be nice if they could do their money trading somehow in game. What got implemented was the RMAH, which instead of a marketplace was an AH that automated and streamlined everything. Of course there was also a Gold AH, because they probably figured if we're sold on RMAH, then Gold AH makes sense for everyone esle, plus we avoid the P2W label.
Turns out the Gold AH had massive, massive side effects on the game play experience for reasons everyone posting here knows by now.
The main issue is why did this happen when trading / selling gear in D2 never destroyed gameplay? I think it's because Blizzard made it too easy for players to do that in game. The only way to keep this activity from taking over the game would be to introduce mmo-style gear-binding (they attempted to that with the Hellfire Ring, Demonic Essence gear) or to make this a niche activity within the player base (which it definitely was in D2).
I don't thik they want to go further with the gear-binding approach, so it seems like they *can't* reintroduce some mass-trading mechanism because it'll stop being niche once it's part of the actual game-client.
|
On October 05 2013 17:47 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 02:28 RagequitBM wrote:On September 21 2013 10:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 21 2013 09:28 Cascade wrote:On September 21 2013 08:21 MoonfireSpam wrote:On September 20 2013 18:40 pedduck wrote:
On the second week of release, i found a socket immortal king. Sold it for something like 10 m and use that money to upgrade everything for my character. And since then, 99%of the upgrade come from AH not from my own loot. My diablo experience was to tried to sell and make the most of the AH as much as possible. After 2 or 3 months, i can not keep up with the inflation. I didnt make money fast enough so I can not upgrade my character. So at that time , I can only upgrade with a gear that were considered mid- low tier. Market was inflated with good item for inferno act 1-2. On the other hand , HI END gear become very expensive and out of reach now. I clock out at 400 hours on 4th or 5th month after game released.
I really enjoy the game especially the first 100 hours. The last 100 hours feel little bit boring.
What i want to say is the AH is the most powerful way to upgrade your character. It become the core of the game's experience. Player who were active in AH will go 10 time faster than player who just farm for them self. The game is tune to accomodate the AH, the drop rate, the difficulty. I would love to see item trading as part of the game not the core of the game.
I hope blizzard can find the middle ground for player who like the game this way and the player who dont like Ah. That was how shit went down in D2 as well (farm item you can't use, sell item, buy item you can use). Except you did it through forums or retarded chat channels or sitting in a trade game for hours. If people were so inclined, you could Stock Market (i.e. flip items repeatedly) yourself into wealth in D2 as well and gear up without acually playing the game. Except that the vast majority of D2 players didn't trade at all. TL is blowing my mind on what D2 was for other people... There was apparently a huge PvP population and very few people traded. How did people PvP with found gear against all of the enigma's/runeword items/super gear? For me, and a lot of friends we usually just did Level 9 duels. Where you would get a character to level 9, twink him out, and duel in hardcore, winner gets all of your twink gear. So there was no super gear. I don't know what that guy was saying about the majority not trading. Unless D2JSP really was just a minority of the population.. Edit: Even then, you'd see at least 4 - 5 trade games full of players, so I'm confused where that statement came from. I referred to the majority of players that played soon after (with a few years) of release. The people that still stuck around after a decade (which I guess is a small fraction of the players that bought the game) will be more hardcore, and will likely have a much higher ratio of trading D2JSP people etc. My original point was that I do not think that most people will not trade much without the AH, in chat channle or on JSP.
Which, OBVIOUSLY, will just make current problems even worse. Cant believe people are so *** to not understand this.
|
|
|
Valhalla18444 Posts
Wait, D3 still doesn't have PvP?!
edit: in regards to something said on the last page, Enigma IS super easy to farm by yourself. Countess runs!
|
On October 16 2013 08:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Wait, D3 still doesn't have PvP?!
edit: in regards to something said on the last page, Enigma IS super easy to farm by yourself. Countess runs!
It depends on your definition on PvP.
|
On September 21 2013 10:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 09:28 Cascade wrote:On September 21 2013 08:21 MoonfireSpam wrote:On September 20 2013 18:40 pedduck wrote:
On the second week of release, i found a socket immortal king. Sold it for something like 10 m and use that money to upgrade everything for my character. And since then, 99%of the upgrade come from AH not from my own loot. My diablo experience was to tried to sell and make the most of the AH as much as possible. After 2 or 3 months, i can not keep up with the inflation. I didnt make money fast enough so I can not upgrade my character. So at that time , I can only upgrade with a gear that were considered mid- low tier. Market was inflated with good item for inferno act 1-2. On the other hand , HI END gear become very expensive and out of reach now. I clock out at 400 hours on 4th or 5th month after game released.
I really enjoy the game especially the first 100 hours. The last 100 hours feel little bit boring.
What i want to say is the AH is the most powerful way to upgrade your character. It become the core of the game's experience. Player who were active in AH will go 10 time faster than player who just farm for them self. The game is tune to accomodate the AH, the drop rate, the difficulty. I would love to see item trading as part of the game not the core of the game.
I hope blizzard can find the middle ground for player who like the game this way and the player who dont like Ah. That was how shit went down in D2 as well (farm item you can't use, sell item, buy item you can use). Except you did it through forums or retarded chat channels or sitting in a trade game for hours. If people were so inclined, you could Stock Market (i.e. flip items repeatedly) yourself into wealth in D2 as well and gear up without acually playing the game. Except that the vast majority of D2 players didn't trade at all. TL is blowing my mind on what D2 was for other people... There was apparently a huge PvP population and very few people traded. How did people PvP with found gear against all of the enigma's/runeword items/super gear?
There was a huge PvP population.
The majority were chaotic pubs where anything goes and everyone except that one guy used less than optimal gear (or even builds).
Honestly, "runeword items/super gear" were hardly a limiting factor...they were better, but not on the scale of D3 itemization. Enigma was honestly the only item that could make or break anything in D2.
|
I haven't played D3 in probably 8 months now, but I just want to say I'm kind of sad that the auction house is closing. Working to get enough gold to buy that awesome item was really fun for me, but I know it was probably very cheap, short-lived entertainment compared to actually finding the item like it was with Diablo 2. I wonder if this will make the game fun again?
Unfortunately, at this point there are just too many new games to go back and try it out. Was fun while it lasted tho'!
|
For me this change is terrible. I dont want to barter with other players, talk to them etc. I dont want to play a MMORPG.
Now the game basically forces me to deal with all the random idiots on the internet I dont want to know anything about.
Auction house was a way to sell and buy stuff without all the bs that comes with directly trading with other players.
I played Path of Exile for some time but stopped it becasue the only way to get anything done there is to barter with other players, which I didnt want to do.
|
On October 19 2013 10:51 Redox wrote:
For me this change is terrible. I dont want to barter with other players, talk to them etc. I dont want to play a MMORPG.
Now the game basically forces me to deal with all the random idiots on the internet I dont want to know anything about.
Auction house was a way to sell and buy stuff without all the bs that comes with directly trading with other players.
I played Path of Exile for some time but stopped it becasue the only way to get anything done there is to barter with other players, which I didnt want to do.
Actually in most MMORPGs you have an auction house.
I understand your point on one end, but on the other - diablo 2 simply had a much more rewarding feeling upon striking a good deal. See, whether you have an auction house or a bartering system, there is always someone who will dislike one of them. I don't like to play an economy/stockmarket game, you don't like to play barter.
However, the improved loot 2.0 should drastically improve the stuff you are getting without the need for barter anyway. I have played hardcore without ever using the auction house to give myself a greater challenge, and I enjoy it just fine. You could do the same without using barter in the future.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
