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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On June 08 2012 07:21 udgnim wrote: item for item trading was for poor people in D2 rich people (dupers/botters) traded in runes/SoJs to use as currency (D3 gold) The actual rich people traded mostly through d2jsp, and a lot of items were worth more than 40 SoJs/40 hr's. | ||
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akatama
Romania982 Posts
Keep the game hard, so that bots can't succesfully kill most elite packs. Next, decrease the amount on mf/gf on gear by a lot, halve it even. Then make NV also increase the MF you get from your gear to offset for that nerf (example: reduce the mf/gf on gear by 50%, and make each stack of NV increase your mf/gf from gear by 20%, in addition to the current effect. So with 5 NV stacks you get an increase of 100% of your gear mf, and thus you offset the nerf). This way not only do you solve most bot problems, but also stupid things like goblin/chest farming. I mean you can still do them, but at a lower profit than right now. Best thing about that method is that you only need to tweak the numbers if bots or chest/goblin/vase farmers still have huge profits. One issue this change might cause will be that players that can only play less than 1 hour a day might get the short end of the stick, since they don't have a lot of time to kill a lot of stuff with 5 stacks of NV. Then again here is where the RMAH comes in (people who play that little usually have jobs, so they migth be able to afford the odd item with perfect roll from time to time). Then again, out of those people only a few will bot or farm chests and the like. | ||
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Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
On June 09 2012 00:19 akatama wrote: In my eyes, there is only one course of action that can be done against botting. Keep the game hard, so that bots can't succesfully kill most elite packs. Next, decrease the amount on mf/gf on gear by a lot, halve it even. Then make NV also increase the MF you get from your gear to offset for that nerf (example: reduce the mf/gf on gear by 50%, and make each stack of NV increase your mf/gf from gear by 20%, in addition to the current effect. So with 5 NV stacks you get an increase of 100% of your gear mf, and thus you offset the nerf). This way not only do you solve most bot problems, but also stupid things like goblin/chest farming. I mean you can still do them, but at a lower profit than right now. Best thing about that method is that you only need to tweak the numbers if bots or chest/goblin/vase farmers still have huge profits. One issue this change might cause will be that players that can only play less than 1 hour a day might get the short end of the stick, since they don't have a lot of time to kill a lot of stuff with 5 stacks of NV. Then again here is where the RMAH comes in (people who play that little usually have jobs, so they migth be able to afford the odd item with perfect roll from time to time). Then again, out of those people only a few will bot or farm chests and the like. Are there actually any bots out there that can even kill elite mobs? I thought bots right now are either breaking pots or breaking into unprotected accounts. | ||
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
On June 09 2012 00:24 Oktyabr wrote: Are there actually any bots out there that can even kill elite mobs? I thought bots right now are either breaking pots or breaking into unprotected accounts. I thought that in D2 bots were playing better than any human. | ||
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
On June 09 2012 00:24 Oktyabr wrote: Are there actually any bots out there that can even kill elite mobs? I thought bots right now are either breaking pots or breaking into unprotected accounts. There are bots that can attack enemies, but I really doubt that they can kite them so you'd have to be very geared up to do NV botting. | ||
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
On June 09 2012 00:24 Oktyabr wrote: Are there actually any bots out there that can even kill elite mobs? I thought bots right now are either breaking pots or breaking into unprotected accounts. There are bots right now that can run 4-5NV stack Azmo and Diablo Hell. The stacks vary due to where the packs spawn on it's way towards the bosses. Not as a quick as players of course but they probably haven't spent as much time refining them either since straight gold farming is better atm. I would put bots as better players than probably 90% of the D3 population. Remember less than 2% have even beaten hell now. | ||
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Mysticesper
United States1183 Posts
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CTStalker
Canada9720 Posts
On June 08 2012 07:10 Heh_ wrote: This will draw so much hate, but I think that putting a captcha whenever you start a new game is the way to go. AFAIK, computers can't figure out how to fill in captchas... yet. Benefits: it'll frustrate the hell out of legitimate chest farmers. Thats not a bad idea, although it would get super annoying pretty quickly haha | ||
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
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Cosmos
Belgium1077 Posts
On June 08 2012 07:12 HivMagnus wrote: well, in d2 the gold was useless. And d2 had the best trading system in my opinion, Items for items. So my suggestion is just make gold useless again. was working in d2 D2's trading system was awful, currency being runes from a certain level. You needed extreme luck to get one of those runes and then pay for something great to use. With gold being useful, you can buy stuff, even if you're not very lucky at finding items. | ||
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xZiGGY
United Kingdom801 Posts
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
On June 09 2012 00:28 Heh_ wrote: I thought that in D2 bots were playing better than any human. D2 bots had access to Enigma (teleport) which made botting far easier and less dangerous in D3, there is no teleport get out of jail free card and the best bot class to farm monsters with is probably DH but there are monster + affix combinations that I seriously doubt a bot could manage however, the bot could just be made intelligent enough to read the affixes then make a decision to actually try to kill the elites, skip them, or make a new game in terms of finding a place to farm mosnters, I think Whimsyshire is a pretty bottable place to kill mobs since everything is melee | ||
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zomgE
498 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On June 08 2012 21:46 Silidons wrote: The definition of Inflation: The rate at which the general level of prices for goods and services is rising, and, subsequently, purchasing power is falling. What this means within Diablo, is that the gold you get from the game itself will eventually become virtually useless - the only way you will be able to make enough gold to buy other items, is to sell your own items, virtually making the AH the only way players can have any purchasing power. And in order to have purchasing power, players are going to overprice their items on the AH - only leading to even more inflation. D3 is having HUGE inflation right now. Last week, I bought my barb a full set of nice gear for ~750k on average per piece. These same pieces are now going for 3m+. This would only increase inflation, actually. I think he was saying that since for most players who are farming inferno, their purchasing power is mostly in their items they sell on the AH, so their purchasing power overall is roughly the same (slightly less since the relatively small amount of gold they do collect is now worth less). This is completely different from a real world economy where the majority of people's purchasing power comes from their income (e.g. currency) from employment. So really, the only people are really hurt from high inflation are the people who are sitting on a large amount of gold or who make the majority of their income through gold farming (i.e. vase farming). Now Blizz is actually in a weird situation, as they actually have a conflict of interest between stopping botting to appease their non-botting customer base, and the income generated from their cut for RMAH transactions. Of course it doesn't help them to have gold worthless as that hurts them on both fronts. I think it's pretty much a given that they will eventually nerf vase farming to oblivion given their approach to these types of things so far. Outside of that I don't really think they are going to do much else. And captcha's are a horrible idea, the sheer uproar from customers would completely drown out any positive gain from it. | ||
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necmon
194 Posts
1) Prices are inflating crazily at the moment. 2) Having huge inflation will make the auction house unuseable for the normal player (because you can't afford anything anymore with your fixed income of gold from the hours you play). Two choices now: 3a) Some players will start buying gold for real money, therefore increasing the demand of farmed gold, therefore increasing the price per unit of gold. 3b) Some players will think that it's ridiculous to pay real money for farmed gold and either beat the game fairly (without buying stuff in the AH) or if they can't they will stop playing. The consequence of 3a) is that the number of farmers increases (because you can make better money with it!), therefore the price of farmed gold could possibly reach a steady value (what actually happened in world of warcraft is that the price went slowly but steadily down because the NEED of gold decreased after some time). The consequence of 3b) is unfortunately that the player base will shrink and that should cause Blizzard to act.... maybe ^^ | ||
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zomgE
498 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On June 09 2012 00:19 akatama wrote: In my eyes, there is only one course of action that can be done against botting. Keep the game hard, so that bots can't succesfully kill most elite packs. Next, decrease the amount on mf/gf on gear by a lot, halve it even. Then make NV also increase the MF you get from your gear to offset for that nerf (example: reduce the mf/gf on gear by 50%, and make each stack of NV increase your mf/gf from gear by 20%, in addition to the current effect. So with 5 NV stacks you get an increase of 100% of your gear mf, and thus you offset the nerf). This way not only do you solve most bot problems, but also stupid things like goblin/chest farming. I mean you can still do them, but at a lower profit than right now. Best thing about that method is that you only need to tweak the numbers if bots or chest/goblin/vase farmers still have huge profits. One issue this change might cause will be that players that can only play less than 1 hour a day might get the short end of the stick, since they don't have a lot of time to kill a lot of stuff with 5 stacks of NV. Then again here is where the RMAH comes in (people who play that little usually have jobs, so they migth be able to afford the odd item with perfect roll from time to time). Then again, out of those people only a few will bot or farm chests and the like. this is a pretty good idea. | ||
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Treehead
999 Posts
On June 09 2012 01:52 necmon wrote: This is a pretty interesting cycle. 1) Prices are inflating crazily at the moment. 2) Having huge inflation will make the auction house unuseable for the normal player (because you can't afford anything anymore with your fixed income of gold from the hours you play). Two choices now: 3a) Some players will start buying gold for real money, therefore increasing the demand of farmed gold, therefore increasing the price per unit of gold. 3b) Some players will think that it's ridiculous to pay real money for farmed gold and either beat the game fairly (without buying stuff in the AH) or if they can't they will stop playing. The consequence of 3a) is that the number of farmers increases (because you can make better money with it!), therefore the price of farmed gold could possibly reach a steady value (what actually happened in world of warcraft is that the price went slowly but steadily down because the NEED of gold decreased after some time). The consequence of 3b) is unfortunately that the player base will shrink and that should cause Blizzard to act.... maybe ^^ You missed a few things. 1. A lot of people sell things on the AH, too, so the inflation will eventually make selling items on the AH better than farming gold. Even if it's only the legendaries, good rares, etc. that sell. 2. There is another option for those who refuse to pay for gold: hardcore. Inflation in hardcore is much less prevalent because there are fewer people and no farmers. In addition, whereas demand for certain types of items in softcore decreases over time (as people get the gear), hardcore players gear up again and again (because all hardcore characters die - accepting the things they have as temporary is like the first rule of playing HC), so things like lower level gear never really become valueless. 3. For many players, the idea that it takes time and effort to gear up a tune/spec/playstyle is a boon, not a detriment - and even if they don't say so overtly, or even complain about how long it takes to get the gear they won't, they won't stop playing, they will eventually get the gear they want, and they'll feel more accomplished for doing so when they get there (see: WoW vanilla). 4. WoW also had gold sinks like mounts and etc. that dominated the early economies. This game has no gold sink. It was supposed to be crafting... but as it turns out, crafting is pretty terrible. You can't create a system where you are allowed to farm gold as long as you want but the only use for gold is between players and then not expect inflation. This, not something weird about the demand for gold, is the reason inflation in Diablo 3 is so insane while inflation in WoW was fairly slow. 5. This is a free market system - gold farming can only have as much of an impact as people let it have. Some people will spend whatever real money they can to get the gear they want. But if there are not many of those people, the long term profitability of gold-farming will be null. The logical thing for farmers to do at this point is to exert pressure on the market by buying and reposting gear at high prices to artificially raise demand - effectively trying to hold the market hostage. But, this is assuming there are enough farmers to actually do that (there probably aren't), and that doing so will turn out to be profitable (it probably won't change people's minds about spending $$$ on gear - and they can always go back to the old SoJ trading system). | ||
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Shunjal
United States482 Posts
On June 09 2012 01:49 zomgE wrote: u will be able to sell gold in realmony ah? i thought only items :\ That will be the majority of the RMAH listings, when it becomes available. | ||
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el_dawg
United States164 Posts
Some suggestions: -Buff loot from elites/champions/bosses, buff NV. This one seems obvious and generally agreed upon. -Have passive loot sources drop commodities (gems, essences, some new consumable for reforging, etc) instead of gold. Botters are gonna bot, but at least this won't create massive inflation. -Introduce a mf/gf bonus for grouping. Enough to make people want to text their friends or join a public game. Edit: -Like the guy above said, introduce an effective gold sink, for example make crafting viable or introduce expensive dyes with particle effects (look at tf2 unusual hat prices). | ||
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