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On May 31 2012 03:00 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 02:58 matiK23 wrote:On May 31 2012 01:38 Psyqo wrote:
Does anyone else hate the idea that you can swap in gear right before a killing blow? I think it is a dumb, unintended mechanic that I hope gets fixed somehow. Why is it stupid? And why for any reason would you be against this? You must be against the concept of auction house too. because it makes lv60 mf gear worthless when u can just use shitty blues. they should remove it.
Lmfao wut. You're using your lvl 60 gear for the majority of the time to get 5 NV stacks vs minions with rage inducing affixes. Then you use it to kill the boss to get him to the point where you can switch to your MF gear for 3 seconds and you think it's worthless and blues have more power. Wow. Bad troll is bad.
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I don't know how it works for diablo 3, but for diablo 2 the MF considred was only the one that you had when you kill the boss (and the MF of you mercenary would add with yours if he killed him).
The % of dropping item wasn't linear in function of you MF, but more like log.
Here is a post on a french forum explaining how it worked in diablo 2 (he looked to assembly code for that  ), you can find the informations about MF in D2 in it (if you don't speak frech I think google translate may do a decent job).
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Catyoul
France2377 Posts
On May 31 2012 03:11 Rowa wrote:
I think its part of skill to be able to switch MF gear with clutch timing. I first saw Trump do this and I was like "wtf this is awesome, I don't need to sacrifice stats for MF"
At least for ranged classes it doesn't take any skill. Just remembering to switch at the end, open inventory, right click, right click, right click, right click, right click, right click, right click, right click,... It takes me less than a second to go from one gear to the other.
On May 31 2012 05:51 Entertaining wrote:
Oh let me clarify, nephelum buff works against bosses/purples though. just not mf gear.
That claim is going to need some serious source or proof.
Also, as kubiks reminded just above, magic find was NOT linear in d2. There is no particular reason they would have kept the same formula for d3 though. As there is no reason to believe it is linear either.
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I tried switching to MF on kill/chest open for a while but it became tedious, so I just keep the MF on all the time amd switch it out only when I'm facing something I can't kill with it.
At least that way, even if MF is calculated on sight of the mob rather than on kill I'd still get it. :-P
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Nephalem Valor and Magic Find are two separate things. NV adds loot to bosses. On top of aiding MF.
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On May 31 2012 06:18 DDie wrote:
I'm pretty sure D3 uses the same system as D2, items are generated when the monster is killed, so, switching gears works.
Wouldn't that mean
-Random # generator for equipment/gold/potions/etc...
-MF(Random # generator) for each equipment piece
-Random # generator for stats on the piece
Example:
-Random # generator decides to give you a lvl 44 executioners axe, some potion, some gold, and a quiver
-MF(random # generator) tries to figure out if your lvl 44 axe is a grey, white, blue, yellow, green, brown/gold
-Random # generator tries to figure out the random attributes
And if I recall correctly, if there is no unique lvl 44 executioners axe, it doesn't simply make it a unique lvl 44 axe of a different kind but actually rerolls again until it doesn't roll a unique.
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On May 31 2012 07:55 Fugue wrote:
I tried switching to MF on kill/chest open for a while but it became tedious, so I just keep the MF on all the time amd switch it out only when I'm facing something I can't kill with it.
At least that way, even if MF is calculated on sight of the mob rather than on kill I'd still get it. :-P
You also have to remember that farming a boss in D2 was very different than it is in D3
It would take you less than a 3 minutes to kill Mephisto with a sorceress due to teleport (assuming you memorized all permutations of the dungeon)
Which meant that you're expected to have killed Mephisto 15+ times in an hour (you lose time sorting, selling, repairing, etc...)
This was in hell mode. You can't do that here in D3 on Inferno. Just try "running past" a jailer/waller/mortar/etc... pack while trying not to get hit by the white mobs that are spawning on top of you/shotting from range/run faster than you
Instead the act bosses and the rare packs are simply cleared instead of being "farmed" in the way that Mephisto or Pindleskin was farmed. It's more similar to the (end of D2 practice) Baal runs and the Chaos Santuary runs where the goal was maximum number of item drops instead of highest lvl item drops. Clearing Baal and and the Chaos Sanctuary dropped a LOT of loot and gave tonnes of experience. It didn't have as a high a *possible* chance of items dropping (until you killed Baal/Diablo) because none of the mobs you killed were as high a lvl as pindle or mephisto. But since you killed more of them you got more drops in total.
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Seems like it works for me. No empirical evidence, but in probably 20-25 siegebreaker runs I can say I've noticed a significant drop off the times I failed to get my MF gear on in time when finishing a champ. With MF gear on most mobs drop 1 or 2 rares, with no MF gear on I usually get all blues.
Like I said, I haven't been trying to compile stats, so I don't have factual numbers, but it's been consistent enough that I've noticed a trend.
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On May 31 2012 10:05 Leyra wrote:
Seems like it works for me. No empirical evidence, but in probably 20-25 siegebreaker runs I can say I've noticed a significant drop off the times I failed to get my MF gear on in time when finishing a champ. With MF gear on most mobs drop 1 or 2 rares, with no MF gear on I usually get all blues.
Like I said, I haven't been trying to compile stats, so I don't have factual numbers, but it's been consistent enough that I've noticed a trend.
It's clearly worked on champion packs and resplendent chests, but I am still unsure about on boss/purple mobs such as Siegebreaker and Act 4 ghosts. The result seems distorted because of the Neph buff and it feels like we need a lot more meaningful numbers recorded to see if MF gear will increase drop rate from (as an example) 2.4 rares to 3.4 rares on average.
Also, I don't really understand the question directed toward my results from before - the data is in aggregate, not averaged (e.g., over 60 runs on a particular boss w/ 15MF and 0 Neph stacks, I got 127 magic drops from the boss)
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On May 31 2012 10:41 Hold-Lurker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 10:05 Leyra wrote:
Seems like it works for me. No empirical evidence, but in probably 20-25 siegebreaker runs I can say I've noticed a significant drop off the times I failed to get my MF gear on in time when finishing a champ. With MF gear on most mobs drop 1 or 2 rares, with no MF gear on I usually get all blues.
Like I said, I haven't been trying to compile stats, so I don't have factual numbers, but it's been consistent enough that I've noticed a trend. It's clearly worked on champion packs and resplendent chests, but I am still unsure about on boss/purple mobs such as Siegebreaker and Act 4 ghosts. The result seems distorted because of the Neph buff and it feels like we need a lot more meaningful numbers recorded to see if MF gear will increase drop rate from (as an example) 2.4 rares to 3.4 rares on average. Also, I don't really understand the question directed toward my results from before - the data is in aggregate, not averaged (e.g., over 60 runs on a particular boss w/ 15MF and 0 Neph stacks, I got 127 magic drops from the boss)
Hmm yeah, I could buy into that idea, without NV my boss drops with MF don't seem as impressive, I'd love to see some big samples.
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On May 31 2012 07:56 Medrea wrote:
Nephalem Valor and Magic Find are two separate things. NV adds loot to bosses. On top of aiding MF.
Yep, that seems to be it.
Gathered some more data, this is what I have so far:
+ Show Spoiler +
Number of yellow and blue drops I had on champion packs in halls of agony / cursed hold as well as warden and butcher. Kills without mf equip, or with switching to +147% mf before kill. In brackets average number of drops per single kill.
champion packs total
no mf equip
number: 36
blue: 75 (2.08)
yellow: 15 (0.42)
with mf equip
number: 34
blue: 41 (1.21)
yellow: 31 (0.91)
champion packs with 5 stacks NV
no mf equip
number: 10
blue: 19 (1.9)
yellow: 7 (0.7)
with mf equip
number: 16
blue: 20 (1.25)
yellow: 17 (1.06)
warden with 5 stacks NV no mf equip
number: 4
blue: 20 (5)
yellow: 10 (2.5)
warden with 5 stacks NV with mf equip
number: 4
blue: 18 (4.5)
yellow: 10 (2.5)
warden no stacks NV no mf equip
number: 1
blue: 2
yellow: 0
butcher with 5 stacks NV no mf equip
number: 4
blue: 22 (5.5)
yellow: 11 (2.75)
butcher with 5 stacks NV with mf equip
number: 4
blue: 25 (6.25)
yellow: 10 (2.5)
butcher no stacks NV no mf equip
number: 1
blue: 2
yellow: 1
So it seems like mf does not increase the overall number of blue and yellow drops on champion packs. But it increases the ratio of yellow to blue, you get more yellows in the end (roughly twice as much yellow with 150% mf).
NV seems to be counted towards normal mf on champion packs (lack of data here though). In any case it does not increase the number of guaranteed drops from champion packs. These always remain at 2.
Btw Tome of Secrets does not count as a normal blue drop.
However, I could not observe any increase in yellow or blue drops on bosses with mf. Maybe this is really disabled atm as someone wrote in this thread. But the sample size is somewhat to small here.
As others have said before NV stakcs increase number of guaranteed drops on bosses immensely.
So in short: mf works on champions (not more drops but higher quality), NV stacks work on bosses (more drops).
edit: Hold-Lurker already posted some better data on bosses:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 31 2012 05:40 Hold-Lurker wrote:
I have 120 Act 4 purple/boss runs of data recorded at 0 stacks:
60 @ 15MF (4 gems, 24 white, 127 magic, 12 tomes, 0 rares)
30 @ 66MF (5 gems, 13 white, 61 magic, 5 tomes, 1 rare)
30 @ 103MF (3 gems, 8 white, 60 magic, 8 tomes, 1 rare)
Not sure what the takeaway is yet. Probably still low sample size?
I will continue to record data as I farm when my friends aren't on. If someone more statistically minded than me wants to look over the actual data, let me know how I can get it to you.. (Google doc that I can cut/paste into or something?)
This strongly reinforces my opinon that mf does NOT work on bosses.
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On May 30 2012 22:58 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 22:51 Redox wrote:On May 30 2012 22:49 Tobberoth wrote:On May 30 2012 22:47 Redox wrote:On May 30 2012 22:44 bgx wrote:On May 30 2012 22:43 Redox wrote:On May 30 2012 22:29 Heh_ wrote:
5 stack valor guarantees 2 yellow drops from bosses, aka warden and butcher (not Izual for some reason). Don't count that in. Testing with NV complicates things so much, you either take samples with only 5 stack NV or no NV at all.
So if 5 stacks of valor give 2 guaranteed drops, would 75% of MF from gear give the same? Or is there a diffrence between MF % from valor buff and from gear? Because this does just sound like it. No, valor gives 2 rares by default, 75% MF does not guarantee anything, only guarantee bigger chance. Source? Well, don't know if it counts, but I've beaten Kulle in Act 2 several times with more than 80% MF (no stacks) and I've never gotten a yellow from him. That would kinda reinforce my suspicion that the MF from items does not work.  That is indeed the kind of info I was looking for. Honestly, that's not the kind of information you should be looking for. You should be looking for something like "I did 50 butcher runs with 5 stacks of NV and got X blues, Y yellows and Z legendaries, then did 50 butcher runs with +150% MF and 5 stacks of NV and got X blues, Y yellows and Z legendaries". Something like "I did that boss a few time with MF and got nothing" doesn't actually mean that much.
This. It's simply shocking the amount of conclusions you're yielding with the awful quality of statistics you've been taking so far.
You should really put what type of creature you killed, where (at least the Act/Mission) and if you want more distinct data showing the affects of MF, don't pick up the Valor buff when you're not wearing MF and get 5 stacks with MF gear. And if you're worried about the affect of gear run three different scenarios.
Normal gear, no valor.
Normal gear, with valor.
MF gear, with valor.
And not a few times, like 50 each (which could be argued that is still too few).
On May 31 2012 05:40 Hold-Lurker wrote:
I have 120 Act 4 purple/boss runs of data recorded at 0 stacks:
60 @ 15MF (4 gems, 24 white, 127 magic, 12 tomes, 0 rares)
30 @ 66MF (5 gems, 13 white, 61 magic, 5 tomes, 1 rare)
30 @ 103MF (3 gems, 8 white, 60 magic, 8 tomes, 1 rare)
Not sure what the takeaway is yet. Probably still low sample size?
I will continue to record data as I farm when my friends aren't on. If someone more statistically minded than me wants to look over the actual data, let me know how I can get it to you.. (Google doc that I can cut/paste into or something?)
This strongly reinforces my opinon that mf does NOT work on bosses.[/QUOTE]
Act 4 purple/boss runs is extremely vague especially considering how easily specific you could be. Were you farming the ghosts? Were you farming Diablo's herald? Were you farming Diablo? And honestly going from 15 MF to 103 MF isn't exactly the best way to find results. Run with 0 MF and then 250 MF and if the results are similar after 50 of each, then yes I think it would be a fair statement that MF doesn't effect bosses.
Also are you going start to finish with MF gear on, or merely switching when you're about to kill it? It would not shock me if Blizzard did not allow people to switch at the last second and have it affect the loot.
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Very interesting data Sprungjeezy!
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Short answer: of course it works lol. And you can use MF items on ur followers to get more MF too btw.
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On May 31 2012 06:27 matiK23 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 03:00 Nizaris wrote:On May 31 2012 02:58 matiK23 wrote:On May 31 2012 01:38 Psyqo wrote:
Does anyone else hate the idea that you can swap in gear right before a killing blow? I think it is a dumb, unintended mechanic that I hope gets fixed somehow. Why is it stupid? And why for any reason would you be against this? You must be against the concept of auction house too. because it makes lv60 mf gear worthless when u can just use shitty blues. they should remove it. Lmfao wut. You're using your lvl 60 gear for the majority of the time to get 5 NV stacks vs minions with rage inducing affixes. Then you use it to kill the boss to get him to the point where you can switch to your MF gear for 3 seconds and you think it's worthless and blues have more power. Wow. Bad troll is bad.
i wasn't trolling maybe you should try actually understanding what i said.
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Yet another retarded exploit blizzard failed to adress. Go blizzard
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On June 01 2012 19:18 Kickboxer wrote:Yet another retarded exploit blizzard failed to adress. Go blizzard
Are you refering to swapping your gear to MF gear right before a kill or something else?
If gear swap then lol, its hardlyt an exploit....
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On May 31 2012 06:27 matiK23 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 03:00 Nizaris wrote:On May 31 2012 02:58 matiK23 wrote:On May 31 2012 01:38 Psyqo wrote:
Does anyone else hate the idea that you can swap in gear right before a killing blow? I think it is a dumb, unintended mechanic that I hope gets fixed somehow. Why is it stupid? And why for any reason would you be against this? You must be against the concept of auction house too. because it makes lv60 mf gear worthless when u can just use shitty blues. they should remove it. Lmfao wut. You're using your lvl 60 gear for the majority of the time to get 5 NV stacks vs minions with rage inducing affixes. Then you use it to kill the boss to get him to the point where you can switch to your MF gear for 3 seconds and you think it's worthless and blues have more power. Wow. Bad troll is bad.
I think he means, what's the point of having lvl 60 gears with mf when you can switch to shitty blues ? I also think it's more rewarding for us to sacrifice our dps and hp pool in order to get better %mf from start to finish.
Right now, it's kind of counter intuitive to have to switch before every kill in order to have the best chances of dropping items.
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So, is it still working? Im switching to 180 mf (w/o valor) before killing butcher, and i didn't notice any increase in blues and rares. Did like 4 or so runs
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On June 08 2012 15:24 backstabber wrote:
So, is it still working? Im switching to 180 mf (w/o valor) before killing butcher, and i didn't notice any increase in blues and rares. Did like 4 or so runs
you're supposed to do boss runs with 5 stack valor
you're guaranteed 2 rares when 5 stacked
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EPT
