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On May 30 2012 23:26 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:05 karazax wrote:
Also if you look at the link I posted for Diablo 2 magic find, Blizzard considered 400% average, and 600% plus was good. Even with 600 then you were only boosting a mob with a 1% chance of having a magical item drop to having a 6% chance, not guaranteeing 6x as many magic items from a boss. We are not talking about mobs with 1 % drop chance here though. If bosses (or elites) have a 1% chance of dropping additional loot and with 100 % MF I increae it to 2% chance, then switching to MF becomes totally pointless and I would stop doing it.
Because twice the chances of rares/legendaries dropping (assuming it works exactly as in the example) isn't worth a few seconds to switch some gear around. To each his own I guess... I'll keep switching when the content is easy enough for me to do so.
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On May 30 2012 23:19 Caphe wrote:
MF from Valor and MF from gears are difference at least in my experience. When I first started Butcher Inferno, with no NV stack I switch to 100+ MF at the end but the boss only drop blue.
Once I was able to farm him with 5 stacks of NV, 2 yellows are guaranteed, you get 3 yellows many times and sometime(very rare) a fourth yellow appear.
NV Magic Find>>> Item magic find, at least on boss fight.
Perhaps that is potential evidence that the magic find gear has to be on for the whole fight for it to work.
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On May 30 2012 23:32 karazax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:19 Caphe wrote:
MF from Valor and MF from gears are difference at least in my experience. When I first started Butcher Inferno, with no NV stack I switch to 100+ MF at the end but the boss only drop blue.
Once I was able to farm him with 5 stacks of NV, 2 yellows are guaranteed, you get 3 yellows many times and sometime(very rare) a fourth yellow appear.
NV Magic Find>>> Item magic find, at least on boss fight. Perhaps that is potential evidence that the magic find gear has to be on for the whole fight for it to work.
No, that's evidence that NV stacks guaratee extra loot from bosses, not dependant of MF. They said so the first time they announced it.
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On May 30 2012 23:26 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:05 karazax wrote:
Also if you look at the link I posted for Diablo 2 magic find, Blizzard considered 400% average, and 600% plus was good. Even with 600 then you were only boosting a mob with a 1% chance of having a magical item drop to having a 6% chance, not guaranteeing 6x as many magic items from a boss. We are not talking about mobs with 1 % drop chance here though. If bosses (or elites) have a 1% chance of dropping additional loot and with 100 % MF I increase it to 2% chance, then switching to MF becomes totally pointless and I would stop doing it. Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:13 RAGEMOAR The Pope wrote:
Can you provide the items dropped per run in an excel format:
Run (no mf) - Loots
1 - 3
2 - 0
3 - 3
etc.
With that data, we can run a normality test and bootstrap / t-test the data and determine whether or not it's statistically significant. Too lazy. Tbh I was more hoping someone else had such data or a link to it.  But I can tell you right away that my data would fail a t-test.  Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:24 rastaban wrote:
EDIT: Looking at your example again, it looks like you only used NV when farming elites, in which case it should be the exact same as +magic find so it may not have mattered. I always had 5 stacks NV when doing the bosses, I only did complete runs.
Even if it does fail a t-test, it still can have statistically meaningful info. Stop being lazy and help everyone else out.
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On May 30 2012 23:30 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:26 Redox wrote:On May 30 2012 23:05 karazax wrote:
Also if you look at the link I posted for Diablo 2 magic find, Blizzard considered 400% average, and 600% plus was good. Even with 600 then you were only boosting a mob with a 1% chance of having a magical item drop to having a 6% chance, not guaranteeing 6x as many magic items from a boss. We are not talking about mobs with 1 % drop chance here though. If bosses (or elites) have a 1% chance of dropping additional loot and with 100 % MF I increae it to 2% chance, then switching to MF becomes totally pointless and I would stop doing it. Because twice the chances of rares/legendaries dropping (assuming it works exactly as in the example) isn't worth a few seconds to switch some gear around. To each his own I guess... I'll keep switching when the content is easy enough for me to do so.
I have seen so many people die occasionally when switching their gear. If this happens only 1 in 20 times you switch, it is clearly not worth it if you increase the drop chance from 1 to 2 % on a boss.
Add to that the insane prices people pay on the AH just to get an item with 1% more MF, wich would equate to 0,01 % more drop chance in that example.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
increased mf seems to help way more than "1% to 2%" on a boss. im doing ghom and siegebreaker (when i have manageable lag anyway) and anecdotal evidence from say 10 total runs says that 50% mf vs 200% mf is at least 2 yellows per kill.
of course mf helps way more on regular elite mobs
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best thing about switching to MF gear is that when you die using MF gear, then your obligated to keep trying to switch to the MF gear because to show the mob who's boss
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A lot of your assumptions are just plain wrong. The increased MF pays off in the long run after hundreds, even thousands, of runs. When people switch to MF gear, they're increasing their total increased MF from 0% to 100-200%. That's a ton more items that will be dropped.
If you don't believe that MF works, then don't do it. Leave the MF runs to people who believe that it does.
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On May 30 2012 23:44 Heh_ wrote:
A lot of your assumptions are just plain wrong. The increased MF pays off in the long run after hundreds, even thousands, of runs. When people switch to MF gear, they're increasing their total increased MF from 0% to 100-200%. That's a ton more items that will be dropped.
If you don't believe that MF works, then don't do it. Leave the MF runs to people who believe that it does.
How are his assumptions any different from YOUR assumption that it does pay off.
Realistically, no one actually knows wether or not it does make a difference, and by how much. hence the point of this thread.
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On May 30 2012 23:41 oneofthem wrote:
increased mf seems to help way more than "1% to 2%" on a boss. im doing ghom and siegebreaker (when i have manageable lag anyway) and anecdotal evidence from say 10 total runs says that 50% mf vs 200% mf is at least 2 yellows per kill.
of course mf helps way more on regular elite mobs
The 1% to 2% was just an example Blizzard provided most likely referring to normal mobs in D2. I suspect that bosses have a guaranteed chance of dropping x amount of magic items, and your magic find increases your chances of getting more than that, or of the blues being yellow or legendary. But of course this is all speculation on my part based on how it worked in D2.
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I was actually also going to post about this. I have been doing Butcher runs all yesterday with no MF, and got 2 rares, sometimes a 3rd. So far today, I have been running Butcher with 200% mf from the start. Both of these kills using 5 stacks of NV. Today so far, I haven't seen a 3rd rare drop.
From what I can surmise, is that mf will greatly increase your blues and rares from normal and elite packs, but on bosses, you might as well just get the NV and go through with 0 mf, as the time difference can be used to start another run.
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On May 30 2012 23:47 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:44 Heh_ wrote:
A lot of your assumptions are just plain wrong. The increased MF pays off in the long run after hundreds, even thousands, of runs. When people switch to MF gear, they're increasing their total increased MF from 0% to 100-200%. That's a ton more items that will be dropped.
If you don't believe that MF works, then don't do it. Leave the MF runs to people who believe that it does. How are his assumptions any different from YOUR assumption that it does pay off. Realistically, no one actually knows wether or not it does make a difference, and by how much. hence the point of this thread.
Because we're arguing about an imaginary number (1%) that Blizzard came up with to simplify explanations. Let's ignore all drop percentages, and talk about total drop numbers. If you found 1000 items with 0% MF gear, it could have been 2000 items with 100% MF gear. Sounds like a good deal to me.
The NV buff complicates things. AFAIK, it gives 15% increased MF per stack against non-bosses (elites included). It gives additional drops (3 magic, 2 rares for a 5-stack) against bosses.
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On May 30 2012 23:55 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:47 Two_DoWn wrote:On May 30 2012 23:44 Heh_ wrote:
A lot of your assumptions are just plain wrong. The increased MF pays off in the long run after hundreds, even thousands, of runs. When people switch to MF gear, they're increasing their total increased MF from 0% to 100-200%. That's a ton more items that will be dropped.
If you don't believe that MF works, then don't do it. Leave the MF runs to people who believe that it does. How are his assumptions any different from YOUR assumption that it does pay off. Realistically, no one actually knows wether or not it does make a difference, and by how much. hence the point of this thread. Because we're arguing about an imaginary number (1%) that Blizzard came up with to simplify explanations. Let's ignore all drop percentages, and talk about total drop numbers. If you found 1000 items with 0% MF gear, it could have been 2000 items with 100% MF gear. Sounds like a good deal to me. The NV buff complicates things. AFAIK, it gives 15% increased MF per stack against non-bosses (elites included). It gives additional drops (3 magic, 2 rares for a 5-stack) against bosses.
Sure, but that assumes that switching gear before the kill does actually, ya know, work. Which we dont know.
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On May 30 2012 23:44 Heh_ wrote:
A lot of your assumptions are just plain wrong. The increased MF pays off in the long run after hundreds, even thousands, of runs. When people switch to MF gear, they're increasing their total increased MF from 0% to 100-200%. That's a ton more items that will be dropped.
If you don't believe that MF works, then don't do it. Leave the MF runs to people who believe that it does.
I dont believe that MF does not work, I just dont know. And if it works I dont know how exactly, which is something I am not alone with apparently.
Also, often knowledge is better than belief.
I just assumed there would be more hard data on this, because normally you can find anything on the internet.
Guess I will just continue to try out and write down my drops.
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On May 31 2012 00:00 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:44 Heh_ wrote:
A lot of your assumptions are just plain wrong. The increased MF pays off in the long run after hundreds, even thousands, of runs. When people switch to MF gear, they're increasing their total increased MF from 0% to 100-200%. That's a ton more items that will be dropped.
If you don't believe that MF works, then don't do it. Leave the MF runs to people who believe that it does. I dont believe that MF does not work, I just dont know. And if it works I dont know how exactly, which is something I am not alone with apparently. Also, often knowledge is better than belief. I just assumed there would be more hard data on this, because normally you can find anything on the internet. Guess I will just continue to try out and write down my drops.
There is almost no data about anything People discovered 30% dmg reduction on melee class from loading screen lol. Well some were in Brady Games guide, but only owners of it had knowledge of it.
MF was documented in D2 and maybe when dataminers will finally start to work on D3 we will get concrete lists of how stat X affect X etc.
about 60% of game mechanics are completely unknown, and no one is really eager to speak of.
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From 50 Whimsyshire Inferno elite packs with 299% MF (swapped right before killing), I got rares from 38 of them.
With 75% MF from another 50 packs, I got rares from 13 of them.
I'm going to keep swapping in MF gear.
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On May 31 2012 00:00 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:55 Heh_ wrote:On May 30 2012 23:47 Two_DoWn wrote:On May 30 2012 23:44 Heh_ wrote:
A lot of your assumptions are just plain wrong. The increased MF pays off in the long run after hundreds, even thousands, of runs. When people switch to MF gear, they're increasing their total increased MF from 0% to 100-200%. That's a ton more items that will be dropped.
If you don't believe that MF works, then don't do it. Leave the MF runs to people who believe that it does. How are his assumptions any different from YOUR assumption that it does pay off. Realistically, no one actually knows wether or not it does make a difference, and by how much. hence the point of this thread. Because we're arguing about an imaginary number (1%) that Blizzard came up with to simplify explanations. Let's ignore all drop percentages, and talk about total drop numbers. If you found 1000 items with 0% MF gear, it could have been 2000 items with 100% MF gear. Sounds like a good deal to me. The NV buff complicates things. AFAIK, it gives 15% increased MF per stack against non-bosses (elites included). It gives additional drops (3 magic, 2 rares for a 5-stack) against bosses. Sure, but that assumes that switching gear before the kill does actually, ya know, work. Which we dont know.
You can do MF runs wearing the gear itself, without switching. Sure it will result in a slower killing rate, but the total increased MF far outweighs it.
On May 31 2012 00:00 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:44 Heh_ wrote:
A lot of your assumptions are just plain wrong. The increased MF pays off in the long run after hundreds, even thousands, of runs. When people switch to MF gear, they're increasing their total increased MF from 0% to 100-200%. That's a ton more items that will be dropped.
If you don't believe that MF works, then don't do it. Leave the MF runs to people who believe that it does. I dont believe that MF does not work, I just dont know. And if it works I dont know how exactly, which is something I am not alone with apparently. Also, often knowledge is better than belief. I just assumed there would be more hard data on this, because normally you can find anything on the internet. Guess I will just continue to try out and write down my drops.
Blizzard does not release the data about the drop rates of white mobs, elites and bosses, and how MF and NV alters them (more total items or switching whites for blues/yellows?). You could brute force test this out, but it'll take tens of thousands of kills, something which most people are too damn lazy to do.
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Isnt the whole pointing of stacking MF to find items with better stats instead of finding more items?
-edit: i rather get 1 item with perfect stats then 10 items with crappy stats.
my 2 cents
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United States1967 Posts
So I have pretty good MF gear, 205% base before NV, and I have to say that in the long run, not having MF and making sure you have 5 NV stack on for example butcher runs and focusing instead on dps/improving run time might be better. Of course ideally you'd want to have both MF and be able to do runs super fast, but that kind of gear is really expensive/hard to find.
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Lol of course switching gear works... cant source but chests and drops are generated on kill/opening not on spawn.
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EPT
