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On May 25 2012 12:55 antelope591 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 11:43 Dfgj wrote:On May 25 2012 11:10 gape.ninja wrote:
I enjoy getting randomly gibbed by terror demons, corrupted angels and oppressors in act4 inferno. idk I managed to solo up to the end of Act 4 (not Dia though), I died a lot but it certainly felt manageable given that my gear was not the best it could be. I'm starting to feel like Inferno, while designed clumsily, isn't too horrific. For a Wizard. This is my whole issue with inferno....I have nothing against you or your class. But my whole problem with inferno stems from the fact that for wizard/dh inferno is at least manageable with decent but non-godlike gear. However meele need godlike gear and still need to use ghetto kite strats to survive anything. I would have no issue with the difficulty if there was any semblance of balance between ranged and meele.
I can certainly agree with that.
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Inferno difficulties is ok, it is supposed to be hard. But due to Blizzard incompetant they ruined the game experience for many people.
Lets say there is no cheese Wizard build, and no way to just keeping ressing and skip straight to boss. Do you think people have cleared inferno by now? Probably not.
The point of inferno is its hard, people are supposed to farming ACT 1 or ACT 2 inferno right now not farming/exploit ACT 4 only 5 days after the game is released.
Why Barb are pissed because before the hotfix while Wizards are farming/exploit ACT 4 and making millions, Barb was dying to random mobs in ACT 1. Its about the equality of the game. How both people with the same effort end up in two very difference places?
For the few Barbs that have cleared Inferno, can they do that without the gear that only comes from farming ACT 4? I doubt that very much.
That make it comes back to my first point: If Inferno has been damn difficult for everyone, it would have been fine and people would have react much better and even praise Blizzard. But few class that beat Inferno with 5 days after release while others need to farm intensively and buying intensively from AH as well to do the same thing it is just BAD.
Those that test this game at Blizzard should be fired, what a great game this is but end up get a very very rough start that could easily be avoided by some good game testers.
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I am not in a position to comment on difficulty because I play from thailand where my ping is 600-1000 average. I can't play the game on friday night or sat night if I want to survive. But I think diablo is not a game that people can figured out in a week. It is actually disappointing to hear people beat inferno with in a week of release.
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On May 25 2012 13:02 Caphe wrote:
Inferno difficulties is ok, it is supposed to be hard. But due to Blizzard incompetant they ruined the game experience for many people.
Lets say there is no cheese Wizard build, and no way to just keeping ressing and skip straight to boss. Do you think people have cleared inferno by now? Probably not.
The point of inferno is its hard, people are supposed to farming ACT 1 or ACT 2 inferno right now not farming/exploit ACT 4 only 5 days after the game is released.
Why Barb are pissed because before the hotfix while Wizards are farming/exploit ACT 4 and making millions, Barb was dying to random mobs in ACT 1. Its about the equality of the game. How both people with the same effort end up in two very difference places?
For the few Barbs that have cleared Inferno, can they do that without the gear that only comes from farming ACT 4? I doubt that very much.
That make it comes back to my first point: If Inferno has been damn difficult for everyone, it would have been fine and people would have react much better and even praise Blizzard. But few class that beat Inferno with 5 days after release while others need to farm intensively and buying intensively from AH as well to do the same thing it is just BAD.
Those that test this game at Blizzard should be fired, what a great game this is but end up get a very very rough start that could easily be avoided by some good game testers.
That being said, in five years, do you really think people will remember and be upset that Wizards and Demon Hunters got to the end a week or two before the others? What you're experiencing right now is likely the only period of inequality we'll ever see, so chill out man, it's unlikely that even 0,1% of Wizards/DHs cleared Inferno even with cheesy skills during such a short time period.
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On May 24 2012 12:11 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 12:07 Lagcraft wrote:On May 24 2012 12:05 [Crimson]Bason wrote:
If anyone is still defending blizzard for this unfinished game... or can I say UNTESTED? 7 years+ in the making and they dont even know what the skills THEY created do and how to use those skills... it is not like smokescreen/energy armor was some secret bug that we had to figure out LOL... they are so obvious anyone even WoW casuals would have figured out within days. Not only did they not test inferno with every single class which is the reason why some classes have much easier time then others... and the fact that you need gear from higher act to even survive earlier act is just.... so what is the alpha and beta phase of the game for? if they are jsut going to release a crap like D3 where the release is actually the testing phase LOL There's this cool new innovation called grammar. You should look it up. How many languages can you speak?
Three. How is that relevant again?
I was pointing it out because his post is incoherent. He's not adding anything to the conversation by saying "LOL BLIZZARD FUCKED UP LOL". That's not constructive to a conversation. I'm not going to take anyone seriously if they don't know what a period is.
Like I've said before, the game has been out for what, 10 days? People are complaining way too much about the game that they wanted to be hard, being too difficult. No one has the godly gear that one needs for inferno. There hasn't been enough time for good items to get into the economy.
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On May 25 2012 20:43 Lagcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 12:11 NotSorry wrote:On May 24 2012 12:07 Lagcraft wrote:On May 24 2012 12:05 [Crimson]Bason wrote:
If anyone is still defending blizzard for this unfinished game... or can I say UNTESTED? 7 years+ in the making and they dont even know what the skills THEY created do and how to use those skills... it is not like smokescreen/energy armor was some secret bug that we had to figure out LOL... they are so obvious anyone even WoW casuals would have figured out within days. Not only did they not test inferno with every single class which is the reason why some classes have much easier time then others... and the fact that you need gear from higher act to even survive earlier act is just.... so what is the alpha and beta phase of the game for? if they are jsut going to release a crap like D3 where the release is actually the testing phase LOL There's this cool new innovation called grammar. You should look it up. How many languages can you speak? Three. How is that relevant again? I was pointing it out because his post is incoherent. He's not adding anything to the conversation by saying "LOL BLIZZARD FUCKED UP LOL". That's not constructive to a conversation. I'm not going to take anyone seriously if they don't know what a period is. Like I've said before, the game has been out for what, 10 days? People are complaining way too much about the game that they wanted to be hard, being too difficult. No one has the godly gear that one needs for inferno. There hasn't been enough time for good items to get into the economy.
You are going to have a hard time in life. If you can't look past people making what is in fact rather minor flaws (the point is quite easily dissected), no one is going to take YOU seriously, no matter how good you are with periods - period (har har har /slowclap). And his point about the testing of this game being completely horrible is very valid. How is it possible for the inhouse testers to overlook something like smokescreen/energy armor? Lastly, you seem to have missed the point about what people generally complain about - that it is so much easier to play a ranged than a melee character, to the point where it was "easy" to do Inferno as wizard/DH... Had it been equally impossible for both melee and ranged a lot of these complaints would never have been raised.
I hope my grammar live up to your expectations...
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On May 25 2012 15:00 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 13:02 Caphe wrote:
Inferno difficulties is ok, it is supposed to be hard. But due to Blizzard incompetant they ruined the game experience for many people.
Lets say there is no cheese Wizard build, and no way to just keeping ressing and skip straight to boss. Do you think people have cleared inferno by now? Probably not.
The point of inferno is its hard, people are supposed to farming ACT 1 or ACT 2 inferno right now not farming/exploit ACT 4 only 5 days after the game is released.
Why Barb are pissed because before the hotfix while Wizards are farming/exploit ACT 4 and making millions, Barb was dying to random mobs in ACT 1. Its about the equality of the game. How both people with the same effort end up in two very difference places?
For the few Barbs that have cleared Inferno, can they do that without the gear that only comes from farming ACT 4? I doubt that very much.
That make it comes back to my first point: If Inferno has been damn difficult for everyone, it would have been fine and people would have react much better and even praise Blizzard. But few class that beat Inferno with 5 days after release while others need to farm intensively and buying intensively from AH as well to do the same thing it is just BAD.
Those that test this game at Blizzard should be fired, what a great game this is but end up get a very very rough start that could easily be avoided by some good game testers. That being said, in five years, do you really think people will remember and be upset that Wizards and Demon Hunters got to the end a week or two before the others? What you're experiencing right now is likely the only period of inequality we'll ever see, so chill out man, it's unlikely that even 0,1% of Wizards/DHs cleared Inferno even with cheesy skills during such a short time period.
Yep, I was addressing people on previous pages bashing at each other because Blizzard falied their testing  I am not raging or anything, I am enjoying my inferno experience now since you need to farm, that the whole point of Diablo.
Inferno is hard for every class now even Wizard and DH. Its a pity that it wasn't the case right from the beginning
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On May 25 2012 21:02 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 20:43 Lagcraft wrote:On May 24 2012 12:11 NotSorry wrote:On May 24 2012 12:07 Lagcraft wrote:On May 24 2012 12:05 [Crimson]Bason wrote:
If anyone is still defending blizzard for this unfinished game... or can I say UNTESTED? 7 years+ in the making and they dont even know what the skills THEY created do and how to use those skills... it is not like smokescreen/energy armor was some secret bug that we had to figure out LOL... they are so obvious anyone even WoW casuals would have figured out within days. Not only did they not test inferno with every single class which is the reason why some classes have much easier time then others... and the fact that you need gear from higher act to even survive earlier act is just.... so what is the alpha and beta phase of the game for? if they are jsut going to release a crap like D3 where the release is actually the testing phase LOL There's this cool new innovation called grammar. You should look it up. How many languages can you speak? Three. How is that relevant again? I was pointing it out because his post is incoherent. He's not adding anything to the conversation by saying "LOL BLIZZARD FUCKED UP LOL". That's not constructive to a conversation. I'm not going to take anyone seriously if they don't know what a period is. Like I've said before, the game has been out for what, 10 days? People are complaining way too much about the game that they wanted to be hard, being too difficult. No one has the godly gear that one needs for inferno. There hasn't been enough time for good items to get into the economy. You are going to have a hard time in life. If you can't look past people making what is in fact rather minor flaws (the point is quite easily dissected), no one is going to take YOU seriously, no matter how good you are with periods - period (har har har /slowclap). And his point about the testing of this game being completely horrible is very valid. How is it possible for the inhouse testers to overlook something like smokescreen/energy armor? Lastly, you seem to have missed the point about what people generally complain about - that it is so much easier to play a ranged than a melee character, to the point where it was "easy" to do Inferno as wizard/DH... Had it been equally impossible for both melee and ranged a lot of these complaints would never have been raised. I hope my grammar live up to your expectations...
No, that attitude won't necessarily give him a hard time in life at all. Almost everyone judge people by their minor flaws without looking further, it's just the type of flaws people care about that differs from person to person.
It seems that nobody hear ever talks much about witch doctors -- how are they perceived relative to barbs (weak late) and DH/Wizard (strong late)?
I'm about to start playing, and WH looks interesting, but all the high-difficulty play I've seen seems to revolve around kiting minions forever while waiting for cooldowns to end. But then again, that seems to be the same for all classes, so...
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On May 25 2012 15:00 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 13:02 Caphe wrote:
Inferno difficulties is ok, it is supposed to be hard. But due to Blizzard incompetant they ruined the game experience for many people.
Lets say there is no cheese Wizard build, and no way to just keeping ressing and skip straight to boss. Do you think people have cleared inferno by now? Probably not.
The point of inferno is its hard, people are supposed to farming ACT 1 or ACT 2 inferno right now not farming/exploit ACT 4 only 5 days after the game is released.
Why Barb are pissed because before the hotfix while Wizards are farming/exploit ACT 4 and making millions, Barb was dying to random mobs in ACT 1. Its about the equality of the game. How both people with the same effort end up in two very difference places?
For the few Barbs that have cleared Inferno, can they do that without the gear that only comes from farming ACT 4? I doubt that very much.
That make it comes back to my first point: If Inferno has been damn difficult for everyone, it would have been fine and people would have react much better and even praise Blizzard. But few class that beat Inferno with 5 days after release while others need to farm intensively and buying intensively from AH as well to do the same thing it is just BAD.
Those that test this game at Blizzard should be fired, what a great game this is but end up get a very very rough start that could easily be avoided by some good game testers. That being said, in five years, do you really think people will remember and be upset that Wizards and Demon Hunters got to the end a week or two before the others? What you're experiencing right now is likely the only period of inequality we'll ever see, so chill out man, it's unlikely that even 0,1% of Wizards/DHs cleared Inferno even with cheesy skills during such a short time period.
Yes people will forget, does that mean developers should make unifinished games, filled with incompetency and inequality and hope for people forgetfulness.
To think they wanted to put RMAH into this almost from the start rofl.
Why its hard to say they simply fucked up? Everyone who paid has legitimate right to word his opinion.
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On May 25 2012 21:10 Caphe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 15:00 HaXXspetten wrote:On May 25 2012 13:02 Caphe wrote:
Inferno difficulties is ok, it is supposed to be hard. But due to Blizzard incompetant they ruined the game experience for many people.
Lets say there is no cheese Wizard build, and no way to just keeping ressing and skip straight to boss. Do you think people have cleared inferno by now? Probably not.
The point of inferno is its hard, people are supposed to farming ACT 1 or ACT 2 inferno right now not farming/exploit ACT 4 only 5 days after the game is released.
Why Barb are pissed because before the hotfix while Wizards are farming/exploit ACT 4 and making millions, Barb was dying to random mobs in ACT 1. Its about the equality of the game. How both people with the same effort end up in two very difference places?
For the few Barbs that have cleared Inferno, can they do that without the gear that only comes from farming ACT 4? I doubt that very much.
That make it comes back to my first point: If Inferno has been damn difficult for everyone, it would have been fine and people would have react much better and even praise Blizzard. But few class that beat Inferno with 5 days after release while others need to farm intensively and buying intensively from AH as well to do the same thing it is just BAD.
Those that test this game at Blizzard should be fired, what a great game this is but end up get a very very rough start that could easily be avoided by some good game testers. That being said, in five years, do you really think people will remember and be upset that Wizards and Demon Hunters got to the end a week or two before the others? What you're experiencing right now is likely the only period of inequality we'll ever see, so chill out man, it's unlikely that even 0,1% of Wizards/DHs cleared Inferno even with cheesy skills during such a short time period. Yep, I was addressing people on previous pages bashing at each other because Blizzard falied their testing I am not raging or anything, I am enjoying my inferno experience now since you need to farm, that the whole point of Diablo. Inferno is hard for every class now even Wizard and DH. Its a pity that it wasn't the case right from the beginning
Even with the best testers you can't compete against thousands of people trying to figure out how to exploit their class. If you look at the credits, their strike team was on the small size. So that explains alot. They just don't have enough skilled people that have the habit of finding abusive strategies :p
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I kinda feel people had unreasonable expectations on Blizz to be fair
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On May 25 2012 21:27 Seiniyta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 21:10 Caphe wrote:On May 25 2012 15:00 HaXXspetten wrote:On May 25 2012 13:02 Caphe wrote:
Inferno difficulties is ok, it is supposed to be hard. But due to Blizzard incompetant they ruined the game experience for many people.
Lets say there is no cheese Wizard build, and no way to just keeping ressing and skip straight to boss. Do you think people have cleared inferno by now? Probably not.
The point of inferno is its hard, people are supposed to farming ACT 1 or ACT 2 inferno right now not farming/exploit ACT 4 only 5 days after the game is released.
Why Barb are pissed because before the hotfix while Wizards are farming/exploit ACT 4 and making millions, Barb was dying to random mobs in ACT 1. Its about the equality of the game. How both people with the same effort end up in two very difference places?
For the few Barbs that have cleared Inferno, can they do that without the gear that only comes from farming ACT 4? I doubt that very much.
That make it comes back to my first point: If Inferno has been damn difficult for everyone, it would have been fine and people would have react much better and even praise Blizzard. But few class that beat Inferno with 5 days after release while others need to farm intensively and buying intensively from AH as well to do the same thing it is just BAD.
Those that test this game at Blizzard should be fired, what a great game this is but end up get a very very rough start that could easily be avoided by some good game testers. That being said, in five years, do you really think people will remember and be upset that Wizards and Demon Hunters got to the end a week or two before the others? What you're experiencing right now is likely the only period of inequality we'll ever see, so chill out man, it's unlikely that even 0,1% of Wizards/DHs cleared Inferno even with cheesy skills during such a short time period. Yep, I was addressing people on previous pages bashing at each other because Blizzard falied their testing I am not raging or anything, I am enjoying my inferno experience now since you need to farm, that the whole point of Diablo. Inferno is hard for every class now even Wizard and DH. Its a pity that it wasn't the case right from the beginning Even with the best testers you can't compete against thousands of people trying to figure out how to exploit their class. If you look at the credits, their strike team was on the small size. So that explains alot. They just don't have enough skilled people that have the habit of finding abusive strategies :p
can you not see that the 'abusive' strategies are not some secret hidden bug but something so obvious. its not like it was hidden because smokescreen and energy armor did what they suppose to. Bugs like the armor drop that blocked the monsters are bugs that are acceptable but ss and energy armor is not. if blizzard tester actually played the game past inferno they would have known about those exploits. I believe blizzard tester all are amateur who died in inferno act 1 and thought it was hard enough for the general public and stopped testing.
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critstun build -> Built on a "bug" which makes venom weapon insanely effective with critical mass, the actual idea that crits lower cooldown with a second would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that venom weapon crits WAAAAY too much.
This is one it's fine that they missed, you pretty much have to test having a lot of crit with critical mass and venom weapon and just happen to see that it crits waaay too much.
0vit FA build -> completely obvious. Anyone looking at the tooltip of FA should realize that it's abuseable and start experimenting with it. If you're in inferno, you would realize it helps you not getting oneshot... then you'll start to wonder why you even need HP if you're getting killed in the same amount of hits. Then you realize regen is extremely effective with low HP.
It's just such an obvious abuseable situation, it's mindboggling that not a single tester at blizzard found it.
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The only thing balance wise I could see is that if the barb for example could reasonably tank and complete act 1 inferno in similar quality gear as the wizard and DH are able to, think of how much easier strategy and player ability wise it would be for them. We are pretty much asking for parity between a class that should be able to jump in and just do moves in place with the occasional stun, and classes that have to constantly dodge/use an ability to avoid every missle and attack being thrown at them.
I have no idea what an elegant solution to this could be. A way they could achieve some parity is make the barb only able to tank with certain cooldowns activated, but I'm not even sure if I would prefer to have a large/godly gear check to even do the content, or the ability to kill a couple mobs at a time every 2-3 minutes.
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On May 25 2012 21:36 HaXXspetten wrote:
I kinda feel people had unreasonable expectations on Blizz to be fair
None other than Blizzard set the bar high naming their game Diablo tbh. Publishers expect sales based on value behind the name and market niche that is empty (high priced, high quality HnS game, Blizzard game, its all contained into word DIABLO). Gamers vice versa expect high valuable product.
Nonetheless it worked D3 beat the records, marketing part worked now fix itemization plox.
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Removed post, nobody's talking about that anymore
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On May 25 2012 21:49 Tobberoth wrote:
critstun build -> Built on a "bug" which makes venom weapon insanely effective with critical mass, the actual idea that crits lower cooldown with a second would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that venom weapon crits WAAAAY too much.
This is one it's fine that they missed, you pretty much have to test having a lot of crit with critical mass and venom weapon and just happen to see that it crits waaay too much.
0vit FA build -> completely obvious. Anyone looking at the tooltip of FA should realize that it's abuseable and start experimenting with it. If you're in inferno, you would realize it helps you not getting oneshot... then you'll start to wonder why you even need HP if you're getting killed in the same amount of hits. Then you realize regen is extremely effective with low HP.
It's just such an obvious abuseable situation, it's mindboggling that not a single tester at blizzard found it.
Almost as bad as the Smokescreen thing. When you make a spell that makes you invincible for 3 seconds, you're going to make sure there isn't way to abuse it too much.
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On May 25 2012 21:36 HaXXspetten wrote:
I kinda feel people had unreasonable expectations on Blizz to be fair
Well, they are the best PC games developer and one of the best in the whole gaming world. I've never hesitate a second in buy Blizzard games. 6.3 millions copy in the first week is any PC developer's dream. Most PC games can't exceed 1 or 2 millions these days.
But whats done is done, the thing I love Blizzard is they care about their games after they release it, so no problem as long as they keep in touch with the community and patch accordingly.
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On May 26 2012 00:01 Caphe wrote:
they are the best PC games developer and one of the best in the whole gaming world.
as of 15.05.2012, for me they are far from the best any more.
(except from a stockholders point of view, clearly not from a >casual gamers view)
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1DyAf.jpg)
