EPTBalance disussion (Inferno) - Page 20
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Miiike
United States141 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 25 2012 21:27 Seiniyta wrote: Even with the best testers you can't compete against thousands of people trying to figure out how to exploit their class. If you look at the credits, their strike team was on the small size. So that explains alot. They just don't have enough skilled people that have the habit of finding abusive strategies :p The main thing is a lot of these abuses were theorized and well known before the game came out. The burden of figuring these things out really wasn't really on their testers. They released all the relevant information, and could easily have followed discussions on these potential imbalances in various places. What else is the point of releasing the skill builder so early if not to see what abusive shit your player base will come up with? | ||
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Lagcraft
United States146 Posts
On May 25 2012 21:02 Ghostcom wrote: You are going to have a hard time in life. If you can't look past people making what is in fact rather minor flaws (the point is quite easily dissected), no one is going to take YOU seriously, no matter how good you are with periods - period (har har har /slowclap). And his point about the testing of this game being completely horrible is very valid. How is it possible for the inhouse testers to overlook something like smokescreen/energy armor? Lastly, you seem to have missed the point about what people generally complain about - that it is so much easier to play a ranged than a melee character, to the point where it was "easy" to do Inferno as wizard/DH... Had it been equally impossible for both melee and ranged a lot of these complaints would never have been raised. I hope my grammar live up to your expectations... I think the better response to your pun would be + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/f/102/awesomemedhj1.png/) The people that cannot make a coherent forum post are the ones that are going to have a hard time in life. They are the ones who aren't going to be taken seriously. Life doesn't give you a break. Not once. If you act anything like that in real life with those "minor flaws", you will get nowhere. An employer isn't going to "dissect" a point from an essay or a resume - you have to actually know what you're doing. As stated earlier, there were bound to be plenty of exploits to... exploit in Diablo III, especially in the first two weeks. Yes, it is annoying that the developer team didn't crank out those bugs before release. But the game is not in an Alpha or Beta stage. To say so is simply ignorant. Inferno was meant to be nigh impossible. Blizzard didn't trust their gamers to be experienced enough as the best of the best. They made it as hard as they could, and then doubled it. Of course it wasn't going to be balanced from day 1. Blizzard has no idea what the skill cap for the best of the best could be for Diablo III. Sure, you could bring in the best progamers to test it. Yet, there isn't a game like Diablo III where the skill-set transfers over. Just look at BW vs SC2 - people like Boxer aren't the best players. Even if you found progamers who had the right skillset to judge the game, there is the possibility of leaks, etc. Half the excitement about Diablo is the plot, the lore, and the mystique. | ||
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an00bis
156 Posts
I would like them to nerf them a bit, down the drop rate, buff normal monsters, buff the bosses and tweak the lvl 60 MF/GF buff or something. I would rather just do continuous MF runs successfully with a low drop rate than taking 15-20minutes of constantly dying trying to kill a champion mob (sometimes not even killing them) and add salt to the wound waiting to respawn (which increases with more deaths). Shit is so tedious and frustrating. I also miss waypoints able to go in between acts. Also make Hell harder? May seem like I'm crying over it's too hard (maybe) but just my 2 cents and needed to vent my frustration. EDIT: Also miss trying to achieve level 99, always something to look forward to and another reason to keep playing, with ladder/ranking. Level 60 just seems a bit short, also feels like Blizzard thinks it makes the game harder. Hate how Blizzard just keeps restricting players and including less functions/things in their games. | ||
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[Crimson]Bason
China161 Posts
On May 26 2012 09:08 Lagcraft wrote: I think the better response to your pun would be + Show Spoiler + The people that cannot make a coherent forum post are the ones that are going to have a hard time in life. They are the ones who aren't going to be taken seriously. Life doesn't give you a break. Not once. If you act anything like that in real life with those "minor flaws", you will get nowhere. An employer isn't going to "dissect" a point from an essay or a resume - you have to actually know what you're doing. As stated earlier, there were bound to be plenty of exploits to... exploit in Diablo III, especially in the first two weeks. Yes, it is annoying that the developer team didn't crank out those bugs before release. But the game is not in an Alpha or Beta stage. To say so is simply ignorant. Inferno was meant to be nigh impossible. Blizzard didn't trust their gamers to be experienced enough as the best of the best. They made it as hard as they could, and then doubled it. Of course it wasn't going to be balanced from day 1. Blizzard has no idea what the skill cap for the best of the best could be for Diablo III. Sure, you could bring in the best progamers to test it. Yet, there isn't a game like Diablo III where the skill-set transfers over. Just look at BW vs SC2 - people like Boxer aren't the best players. Even if you found progamers who had the right skillset to judge the game, there is the possibility of leaks, etc. Half the excitement about Diablo is the plot, the lore, and the mystique. Stop defending blizzard everytime they drop the ball. They will keep doing it unless we criticize and reprimand their actions. D3 sure seems like it is in the beta phase because if it wasnt we wouldnt be finding so many obvious flaws in the game so quickly. The closed and open beta for D3 did absolutely nothing because we as players did not see the whole game. I dont mind them giving some/specific hardcore gamers access to the whole game to test because if they did this D3 would be 1000X times better. Did open beta test their servers what a joke. Did they know about the quantity of the players who bought (ie pre-ordered) the game? Yes! and they still cut corners with cheap unstable servers. We are still suffering from it as I speak, 2 weeks after launch. Im not going to even go into the flaws of the game and its mechanisms, all you have to look is at the interface (chat, bnet, community, auction, in game features). Some games have a nice interface package but horrible game play but at least its nice to look at and interact with. D3 has neither the interface or the gameplay when it was released almost the same way Sc2 didnt. Dont defend this point because I dont think anyone can. What do you think blizzard was doing in the last 7 years? trying to develop D3? I definetely dont think they invested enough time into D3 or else it wouldnt have came out this horrible. What took so long to make? the cartoonish graphics? or the linearly increasing stat system? or the boring/limited affix pool? or the dumbed down skill system where they reused almost every single rune. If their skill/rune system was interesting and added complexity, it would be alot more fun but they spent 7 years and couldnt come up with 5-6 interesting/unique rune for every skill. So many of the runes either increased duration, changed the dmg type to another (completely useless since there is no major distinction between the different elemental dmg types), or decreased resources. Do you think that took 5+ years to come up? Didnt they say we would have billions of builds? Who are they joking? From the very start many hardcore gamers questioned this and now after less than 2 weeks of play it was confirmed. If you dont believe it get to inferno and show me the different viable builds for every class. There are only a few defensive/cc skill for every class and in inferno you use all of them add to that a primary and a secondary dmg skill and you have ALL the viable builds. There are seriously less viableunique builds in D3 than D2. I mean unique not swapping 1 primary skill for another without changing the rest of ur defensive skills. If they tested the game as you mentioned, why didnt they test inferno? I seriously doubt they tested any of inferno because ALL the problem is coming from the inferno level. As you said they just slapped in some higher numbers and hoped for the best. Is that what we customers who spent $60 are entitled to? $60 isnt a cheap game by any means and with the high cost we should be entitled to a better product not some trash/untested game such as D3. how do you like my grammar now? who spents hours writing a perfect essay on a gaming forum? | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
On May 26 2012 09:08 Lagcraft wrote: I think the better response to your pun would be + Show Spoiler + The people that cannot make a coherent forum post are the ones that are going to have a hard time in life. They are the ones who aren't going to be taken seriously. Life doesn't give you a break. Not once. If you act anything like that in real life with those "minor flaws", you will get nowhere. An employer isn't going to "dissect" a point from an essay or a resume - you have to actually know what you're doing. As stated earlier, there were bound to be plenty of exploits to... exploit in Diablo III, especially in the first two weeks. Yes, it is annoying that the developer team didn't crank out those bugs before release. But the game is not in an Alpha or Beta stage. To say so is simply ignorant. Inferno was meant to be nigh impossible. Blizzard didn't trust their gamers to be experienced enough as the best of the best. They made it as hard as they could, and then doubled it. Of course it wasn't going to be balanced from day 1. Blizzard has no idea what the skill cap for the best of the best could be for Diablo III. Sure, you could bring in the best progamers to test it. Yet, there isn't a game like Diablo III where the skill-set transfers over. Just look at BW vs SC2 - people like Boxer aren't the best players. Even if you found progamers who had the right skillset to judge the game, there is the possibility of leaks, etc. Half the excitement about Diablo is the plot, the lore, and the mystique. Your point with regards to language would be valid if english was the only language in the world, but I'm pretty sure a poster from China would write to his future employer in chinese - call it a hunch... And if you are ever going to do some international work, you'll have to get used to people not having perfect grammar in their 2.nd, 3.rd or even 4.th language which english is to a lot of people. But we are straying. I don't get how you can defend someone who manages to overlook how smokescreen and energy armor... But to each his own. Also, I like that you bring up the plot, the lore and the mystique. The script for D3 was written for a 5 year old with a below average IQ and a severe lack of storytelling by his parents.... | ||
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[Crimson]Bason
China161 Posts
On May 26 2012 10:08 Ghostcom wrote: Your point with regards to language would be valid if english was the only language in the world, but I'm pretty sure a poster from China would write to his future employer in chinese - call it a hunch... And if you are ever going to do some international work, you'll have to get used to people not having perfect grammar in their 2.nd, 3.rd or even 4.th language which english is to a lot of people. But we are straying. I don't get how you can defend someone who manages to overlook how smokescreen and energy armor... But to each his own. Also, I like that you bring up the plot, the lore and the mystique. The script for D3 was written for a 5 year old with a below average IQ and a severe lack of storytelling by his parents.... You can not argue reason with blizzard fanboys because they will come up with ways to attack you not related to the core issue. They will also find ways to defend blizzard even though it doesnt make any sense whatsoever. | ||
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archon256
United States363 Posts
On May 26 2012 09:58 [Crimson]Bason wrote: Stop defending blizzard everytime they drop the ball. They will keep doing it unless we criticize and reprimand their actions. I agree with many of the points you've raised, but I honestly don't see why you're raising them here. This isn't a Blizzard forum, and I don't come here to read about all the ways in which the game sucks. If you really feel this strongly that criticism will make them change (I reeaaally doubt that), then you're better off going to the official forums and posting such things there. What I expected from this thread was more "X class feels weak right now because of so-and-so, maybe if they do Y it'll help". But instead I see posts by people raging about all the ways Blizzard has failed the community. I get it already, but seeing people whining about it doesn't make me feel any better. I mean seriously, look at this post: On May 24 2012 12:05 [Crimson]Bason wrote: If anyone is still defending blizzard for this unfinished game... or can I say UNTESTED? 7 years+ in the making and they dont even know what the skills THEY created do and how to use those skills... it is not like smokescreen/energy armor was some secret bug that we had to figure out LOL... they are so obvious anyone even WoW casuals would have figured out within days. Not only did they not test inferno with every single class which is the reason why some classes have much easier time then others... They just slapped in some numbers like doubling the hp and dmg from hell difficulty and assume that it wouldbe hard enough... they run it and die horribly and assume that it was hard enough for us...and the fact that you need gear from higher act to even survive earlier act is just.... so what is the alpha and beta phase of the game for? if they are jsut going to release a crap like D3 where the release is actually the testing phase LOL It's going on and on about how Blizzard has failed how, how the game is crap, a WoW clone, blah blah blah What's the point of even saying such things here. You're better off either talking to them directly, or even better, show your lack of support by not purchasing their future games. | ||
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DaCruise
Denmark2457 Posts
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dmfg
United Kingdom591 Posts
On May 26 2012 10:26 DaCruise wrote: I really dont like that there is no real transition from hell to inferno. I Have farmed Diablo the last few days and bought some neat items from the AH and still all I can kill in Inferno are the initial zombies. Its just stupid and very demoralizing that you need top notch inferno-gear just to enter inferno in the first place. At least as a barb. I have shit gear on my monk (felt undergeared even in Act 3 hell, have had exactly 1 upgrade since then) and me and my mate have been 2 man farming the shit out of early A1 inferno with no problem. We die sometimes, but like 1 to 6 times per pack which isn't excessive by any means. It's allowed us to stack Nephalem buff to actually get some reasonable amounts of drops from bosses, mostly doing cathedral atm since you don't really get the random mobs you need for NV before that. I can't solo shit (and I doubt my mate can, he's a glass cannon wizard), but dunno whether that's because of my all out tank build or because soloing is just harder. EDIT: Frankly I was amazed we could do anything in inferno given that we had literally just stepped out of hell with no farming. Try coop with a friend, it might make all the difference. | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On May 27 2012 07:45 Itsmedudeman wrote: I thinkk inferno is still way too easy, but not in the right way. It's been less than 2 weeks and people can already start farming act 3 elites pretty easily without a bug abuse. I'd like to get at least 3 months worth of a challenge out of the game, and I think it's gonna be about 2 weeks more till people are farming act 4 constantly. There should also be a lot more emphasis on group play. I was really happy through hell because playing with friends was a benefit, but now playing solo is the only way to go. Solo being the same difficulty as grouping is something important in Diablo. It's not an MMO, you should not be forced to play in group. | ||
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.Mystic
Canada486 Posts
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Holytornados
United States1022 Posts
Obviously implementation is harder to do than type it, but then again I'm not being paid to make a great game.. =P | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
Playing on a DH now, i'll just relax until I see what's going on in the next week or two. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On May 26 2012 10:26 DaCruise wrote: I really dont like that there is no real transition from hell to inferno. I Have farmed Diablo the last few days and bought some neat items from the AH and still all I can kill in Inferno are the initial zombies. Its just stupid and very demoralizing that you need top notch inferno-gear just to enter inferno in the first place. At least as a barb. Not true. Me and my friends are playing "pure" (no AH use at all) and my Barb is probably our best geared character. You just need to do runs through the end of hell and know what the best Barb stats are. (although Barb is a very team orientated character and works better in a group imo) | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
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dmfg
United Kingdom591 Posts
On May 27 2012 09:15 Serpico wrote: I think NV should be persistent between games since it's difficult to stack MF when you're trying to stack health/resists/block/dodge/damage before you ever think about MF as melee. The extra MF carrying over would make runs much less painless, perhaps there would be a 3 rare/champ pack kill req to make sure the 5 stacks refresh and dont fade once you enter a new game. I think inferno act one should drop 57+ lvl items (higher rate on the lower lvl items so the best weapons still drop in other acts). I think bosses should be guaranteed to drop 1 rare without any NV and they should give you multiple stacks of NV to encourage farming other elites after you kill the boss even if you did so without any stacks. I think resists should mitigate more magic damage and I think the nerfs for life leech on inferno should be eased up, LL is garbage compared to life on hit right now and it sucks for melee. One of the great things about NV is that it makes pure farming of easy named elites a pretty shit way to get items. Given the amount of bitching in general (and even in the few posts above this) about people farming (relatively) easy named elites in Act4, I don't think improving their drops without NV is a good idea. So far I can't afford to stack any MF at all, but I'm still getting OK drops just from 3-4 stacks of NV alone. Inferno act1 drops level 60 items. Sure it's not a 100% chance, but I just got a 540 dps blue weapon drop with some str and dex from SK. If it had been a rare with additional socket and IAS affixes, it could probably get close to 700 dps. | ||
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ChosenBrad1322
United States562 Posts
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I am not raging or anything, I am enjoying my inferno experience now since you need to farm, that the whole point of Diablo.
