EPTI used to recommend overpower over everything else, but since the LOH nerf to it I actually feel leap is stronger. I love the ability to leap face-first into lasers and desecrator and be absolutely fine, and the additional movement is good + fun. Your choice though, obviously - overpower is still strong.
Barbarian - Builds/Discussion - Page 136
| Forum Index > Diablo 3 |
|
Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
I used to recommend overpower over everything else, but since the LOH nerf to it I actually feel leap is stronger. I love the ability to leap face-first into lasers and desecrator and be absolutely fine, and the additional movement is good + fun. Your choice though, obviously - overpower is still strong. | ||
|
zylog
Canada943 Posts
On August 29 2012 20:42 CruelZeratul wrote: I'm currently 40k hp and 650-700 all res unbuffed (WW Barb), could I afford to drop 65 res and 2k life for 9% ias? I figure I get more life due to the higher attack rate, but mobs with multiple AoE effects could get harder. Also if anyone would give me an advice what to buy next I'd appritiate that, I can only afford 1-2 real upgrades to my gear atm >.<. Would love movement speed but I'd have to sac so many stats to be able to afford that ( http://eu.battle.net/d3/de/profile/Metatron-2965/hero/7991630 ). I was at about 550 all res unbuffed and I still dropped 70 res 3.5 crit to pick up a pair of lacuni bracers. It was quite worth it, the 12% movespeed makes your farming runs way more efficient, and as you said the IAS does help out with survivability through LOH. It seems like the minimum requirements to do act 3 are quite low now since the patch, even easier than it was in 1.0.3 and of course way easier than pre=1.0.3. | ||
|
Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:34 Sylvr wrote: All that %Life you're running is wasted without a solid VIT foundation. Also, it seems to me that you're getting the wrong stats in the wrong slots. Some slots favor certain stats, which makes them cheaper than having that same stat in another piece. What jumped out at me was the low STR on your belt, and no VIT. The AR on it is awesome, but is it really worth missing out on 250+ STR and 100+ VIT? Even if you get a belt with 0 AR, you could easily make it back up on your bracers if you drop 50-100 STR from them, and still have a net gain of both VIT and STR. I also think the body could be better if you drop some STR and make it up in a 3rd socket while also picking up some VIT and higher AR (Body with STR, VIT, AR, 3 Sockets). Your gloves are the same way. Offensive stats are cheaper on gloves because people craft the hell out of them and the market is saturated. Ideally, you want CC, IAS, CD, and STR on gloves. If you absolutely can't stand to drop the AR or VIT, then I'd say the CD is easiest to give up, as it is a pure damage stat whereas everything else contributes to survivability/sustainability. Also, 4.5% Crit is way too low on Gloves. They can get up to 10%, which means the stat doesn't start to get expensive till around 8%+. I wanna say your LOH is a bit overkill. I would drop it from the Amulet and get something with 7-8% Crit, STR and VIT and either IAS or CD if you can afford it. Oh, and your pants have much room for improvement. You could probably get all of those same stats + 2 sockets for fairly cheap. Regarding everything I've posted above: What's cheap for one person might be a fortune for someone else. Generally, I consider a piece cheap if it's under 1m since I can farm that up in A1 in a few hours even without any sellable drops (in other words, just from gold pickup and vendoring blues and bad yellows, or selling Essences if that's what you do). Some people who farm A3 with ease might consider 5m cheap, or sometimes even 10m if they're constantly finding high-end loot to sell. With 1m per slot MAX (probably much cheaper), and some knowledge of which stats to look for in which slot, I think you could improve at least a few things. Edit: Oh, and about your weapons, you should be able to get an offhand with 900+ LOH and drop it from your mainhand altogether, which should make it easy for you to get a ~1k mainhand with socket and at least some stats for a net gain in damage. Also, if you switch your offhand to dagger for lower average attack speed, your LOH will go further (which means it won't hurt as much to lose some). Thanks, I actually improved my gear last night since you wrote this (but before i read this post!) my life is now up to 51k (i swapped out some gems from str to vit, figured if i survive, i can fight, who cares if i lose 1k dps here or there if i keep dying). Here's my updated gear setup: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Kazeyonoma-1662/hero/14226 I'll look to replacing the pants, gloves, and belt per your suggestion, this type of advice is EXACTLY the stuff I needed to know, i know some things are 'better' for stats than others, but everytime I searched, things just looked... the same. I'm pretty tapped out right now in gold after buying the pieces I have now, I'm back up to over 1400 loh mostly just from my offhand, and mainhand combo. I'll look to find a 1k+ mainhand axe with 100 or so loh, which'll keep me just above 1.1k LOH i think. If not, than i'll just sit at a flat 1005 LOH but with a 1k mainhand. I know I have a lot of % life, but man did it make huge jumps once i started bulking up my vit. I dropped about 100 str, but gained 350-400 or so vit, combined with my +49% life modifier, has just made me so much more survivable. I actually was able to go into act 3 last night and almost do a full clear. I had to call it quits after Cydaea(sp?) because I was getting tired and it was late, but overall it was very fun, I'm getting the hang of how to properly use the build too, which is great. Any tips for fighting bosses? Strangely enough on Ghom and Siegebreaker, I couldn't just sprint/ww them to death as I kept losing fury too quickly, something that never happens on regular monsters, even solo ones like the big armored monsters that cover their face when initially damaged. Is there something special about the bosses that make it so I can't crit them as much? Also, would you suggest doing full clears like I've been doing from basically lighting the torches all the way to Cydaea or should I just jump straight to say siege breaker because the outside field is so easy to abuse the sprint/ww with, there's a ton of elites there I can round up and kill in large droves, and then just take down siegebreaker, and either go finish act, or restart game and rinse/repeat for fast runs. I've always just been in act 1 so being able to do it like this now is just mindblowing to me. For the first time since pre-60, my barb feels like a barb again from d2, just whirlwinding the shit out of things, having life dip low but bounce back up from lifesteal(LOH in this case), and having a ton of fun. Thanks everyone who's helped out, I'm getting close to sustainable I think, and once I reach that, I hope I can begin my lifelong journey of chain farming stuff like I did in d2... i even sold some stuff for $ last night woo! | ||
|
kafkaesque
Germany2006 Posts
It feels like I'm dying way too frequently, and although I've increased my mitigation, LoH and Vitality, that doesn't seem to change much. I'm fine as long as there are a bunch of mobs around, but once I've killed the minions and only the Yellow stands, I drop faster than I can leech. Quill beasts, Spear Throwers, Molochs (those evasive flying fuckers...) and especially those fat wizards who shield themselves... they all take AGES to kill and it's hard to even keep berserker up. If berserker isn't up, however, I drop like a sack of potatoes. When the run is finished, which takes me about 1:10 hour (fields of slaughter + cave, bridge of corsik, keep depths 1-3, core of arreat), I hardly break even gold-wise and since 1.04 hit, I haven't sold a single mid-range item, even if I undercut the current market by 50%-75%... | ||
|
Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On August 30 2012 01:49 kafkaesque wrote: I'm getting really frustrated with my WW-Barbarian... It feels like I'm dying way too frequently, and although I've increased my mitigation, LoH and Vitality, that doesn't seem to change much. I'm fine as long as there are a bunch of mobs around, but once I've killed the minions and only the Yellow stands, I drop faster than I can leech. Quill beasts, Spear Throwers, Molochs (those evasive flying fuckers...) and especially those fat wizards who shield themselves... they all take AGES to kill and it's hard to even keep berserker up. If berserker isn't up, however, I drop like a sack of potatoes. When the run is finished, which takes me about 1:10 hour (fields of slaughter + cave, bridge of corsik, keep depths 1-3, core of arreat), I hardly break even gold-wise and since 1.04 hit, I haven't sold a single mid-range item, even if I undercut the current market by 50%-75%... post a link to your armory and your budget, then we can give you advice. | ||
|
Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On August 30 2012 01:49 kafkaesque wrote: I'm getting really frustrated with my WW-Barbarian... It feels like I'm dying way too frequently, and although I've increased my mitigation, LoH and Vitality, that doesn't seem to change much. I'm fine as long as there are a bunch of mobs around, but once I've killed the minions and only the Yellow stands, I drop faster than I can leech. Quill beasts, Spear Throwers, Molochs (those evasive flying fuckers...) and especially those fat wizards who shield themselves... they all take AGES to kill and it's hard to even keep berserker up. If berserker isn't up, however, I drop like a sack of potatoes. When the run is finished, which takes me about 1:10 hour (fields of slaughter + cave, bridge of corsik, keep depths 1-3, core of arreat), I hardly break even gold-wise and since 1.04 hit, I haven't sold a single mid-range item, even if I undercut the current market by 50%-75%... I'm not a fan of the WW build either. I won't deny it's probably the best build by far for quick farming IF you have great gear but I don't like the style of it and don't think it works well if you don't have super gear. This is how I play: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Terrantula-2907/hero/10440098 I think it's the easiest way to farm act 3 easily if you don't have too much money to spend. All you need is good surviveability to abuse revenge and some ok dps. It's much more efficient than a WW build at low costs because you don't need some of the crazy expensive affixes. LoH, crit hit chance / damage, attack speed and high all res are not strictly neccesary which are stupid expensive. Just get high EHP which does include some all res ofcourse but doesn't need to be super high (use an EHP calculator and often vitality is about as effective as all res and much cheaper). A good two hander is the cheapest way to set up now and gives your rend amazing damage. Rend and revenge need high base damage low attack speed preferrably as you can't attack faster than they tick anyway and don't look at attack speed. It might not farm as quickly as WW but you can easily take on single foes, goblins etc. I started with this build after patch and could fairly easily do act 3 for 1-2 million total investment (just search str/vit/all res for most items). Later on you can get other stuff like crit chance/dmg, movespeed etc. It's also much more relax to play, you can kill mobs in large groups at a time or take on small packs what you prefer, both work just fine and allows for relaxed farming. Much easier to use this in a group as well, whereas WW is a hassle for that. | ||
|
Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On August 30 2012 02:27 Markwerf wrote: I'm not a fan of the WW build either. I won't deny it's probably the best build by far for quick farming IF you have great gear but I don't like the style of it and don't think it works well if you don't have super gear. sorry, but what are you talking about? after the latest inferno nerf, it is easily possible to make a ww/sprint barb that can clear act3 conveniently with gear for 10M. | ||
|
Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
On August 30 2012 02:36 Black Gun wrote: sorry, but what are you talking about? after the latest inferno nerf, it is easily possible to make a ww/sprint barb that can clear act3 conveniently with gear for 10M. Yeah... i'm living proof of this. | ||
|
LingsAreBunnies
United States103 Posts
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/INeedLings-1648/hero/3247163 dropped a lot of vit/% life/some ar for offensive stats, and act 3 farming feels a lot faster. However I usually still die a few times in a3, mostly from either trying to run up to a large amount of ranged mobs or vs 1-2 kiting elites with damaging affixes like molten. so Im wondering, what should I upgrade next, and should I get some more defense before working on more dps? I cant seem to find any noticeable upgrades even with around 10m per piece. (most of my pieces are <5m atm, except for the gems obv) | ||
|
Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On August 30 2012 02:56 LingsAreBunnies wrote: I made some changes since the last time I posted, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/INeedLings-1648/hero/3247163 dropped a lot of vit/% life/some ar for offensive stats, and act 3 farming feels a lot faster. However I usually still die a few times in a3, mostly from either trying to run up to a large amount of ranged mobs or vs 1-2 kiting elites with damaging affixes like molten. so Im wondering, what should I upgrade next, and should I get some more defense before working on more dps? I cant seem to find any noticeable upgrades even with around 10m per piece. (most of my pieces are <5m atm, except for the gems obv) do not get fooled by the charscreen dps - your mainhand does outrageously low dps!! definitely upgrade it. then, you will obviously need more allres. you are currently compensating for your very low res by, effectively, using 2 offhands. | ||
|
LingsAreBunnies
United States103 Posts
| ||
|
kafkaesque
Germany2006 Posts
On August 30 2012 02:12 Black Gun wrote: post a link to your armory and your budget, then we can give you advice. Since my budget is non-existant (I told you guys how I don't earn any gold at the moment), I doubt that would help. I know that I just have to throw gold at the problem and get more of the same stats. http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/jan-2432/hero/18629105 | ||
|
zomgE
498 Posts
On August 30 2012 02:58 Black Gun wrote: do not get fooled by the charscreen dps - your mainhand does outrageously low dps!! definitely upgrade it. wut. they just have lots of crit dmg = high dmg. | ||
|
CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
On August 30 2012 03:11 kafkaesque wrote: Since my budget is non-existant (I told you guys how I don't earn any gold at the moment), I doubt that would help. I know that I just have to throw gold at the problem and get more of the same stats. http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/jan-2432/hero/18629105 You want an offhand weapon with high attack speed like Dagger or Axe so WW and Sprint hit more often and I think you overkill LoH. With higher attack speed you will get more life anyway since you attack faster. Besides the bad offhand I'd also highly recommend a stronger main hand weapon (850+) and drop some Vit for Strength. | ||
|
Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
On August 30 2012 03:11 kafkaesque wrote: Since my budget is non-existant (I told you guys how I don't earn any gold at the moment), I doubt that would help. I know that I just have to throw gold at the problem and get more of the same stats. http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/jan-2432/hero/18629105 I note that all the enemies you say you have difficulty with are the enemies that try to run away from you. Try picking up a +cold damage weapon (an axe, ideally - fast attack speed for this build is extremely overlooked), and put it in your mainhand slot when required. Every single attack will slow those enemies down, which makes them a lot easier to deal with. Alternatively, you can just run past the bullshit enemies like that - the fat wizards especially will take an excruciatingly long time to kill with your current DPS. Two suggestions: A) Remember that your primary attack is not whirlwind; it is sprint. Only ever whirlwind if you are at 100 fury (or need to noclip through enemies). B) Try changing frenzy to a defensive ability instead, like Leap + Iron Impact. | ||
|
Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On August 30 2012 03:06 LingsAreBunnies wrote: hm roughly around what should a good mainhand upgrade for me look like, if I dont base it off of the charscreen dps? also, what stat/slot should I sacrifice for more res right now? a good mainhand should have 900-1k dps with a socket, or alternatively 1.1k dps without any other adds. also, the higher the speed difference between mh and oh, the larger the gain for your ww build. with the same dps of the mainhand and the same offhand, a mace as mh will yield stronger tornadoes than an axe mh. edit: str is also a nice stat on weapons that often times remains underrated on the ah. a very very rough rule of thumb is that 2 str = 1 dps for weapons in the 1k dps range and average armory. (i can present some math to back this up if no one believes me.) to give an example, this means is that a weapon with 900 dps and 100 str is better than a 930 dps weapon, but worse than a 980 dps one. | ||
|
Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
On August 30 2012 03:06 LingsAreBunnies wrote: hm roughly around what should a good mainhand upgrade for me look like, if I dont base it off of the charscreen dps? also, what stat/slot should I sacrifice for more res right now? Before changing your gear, try just changing skills! It's much easier, and cheaper, to do  I sound like a broken record, I know, but Leap + Iron Impact is superb for this build. 4 out of every 10 seconds having the ability to be near-invincible (not to mention the ability to escape icky situations), really helps. Plus, instead of having to carefully initiate fights with scary enemies, you just leap right in their face! By the time your buff runs out you will have the healing flowing from your tornadoes. ------------ The reason someone recommended a weapon change, is that the WW/Sprint build uses the mainhand weapon for 80 - 85% of it's overall damage output. The character sheet doesn't know this; it assumes the weapons are being used 50/50. This makes for misleading advice from the game's DPS "help". The crit damage on your mainhand weapon might be increasing your overall damage output by say, 30%.... but your mainhand weapon is only 676 DPS. Let's calculate what the mainhand weapon DPS would have to be to give you the same damage overall.... 676 DPS weapon, used for 80% of all damage To get an overall dps increase of 30% (to compensate for losing crit damage), we need to increase mainhand DPS by 37.5% 676 DPS + 37.5% = 929.5 DPS So, if you swapped out your mainhand weapon for one with the same stats, but with no crit damage whatsoever, you could get one with just ~929 DPS and equal your current DPS***. A raw 1200 DPS weapon, with no stats at all, would be a considerable upgrade. EDIT: maths was pretty rough and ready here - this value isn't particularly accurate. A proper calculation will be done, however.... *** A reminder; the character sheet DPS would be confused and consider this to be a downgrade, because it incorrectly assumes we are using our weapons 50/50, when in fact it's ~80/20. | ||
|
trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
On August 29 2012 17:41 Hairy wrote: How can you stop at 98k DPS without changing a few bits of gear to get 100k+? :D There's no way I could stop short so close of that completely arbitrary number. Go pick up an Andariel's Visage and you'll be there! I'm also at 0 pickup range (I have been for weeks)... I never realised how good pickup range was until I lost all of it. Just a few yards extra clearly makes everything a lot nicer. I just assumed I would regain it at some point through gear changes, but that doesn't seem to have happened. Now I'm at over 100k DPS! Bought a new helm and belt. Cost me a lot but it's worth it! I figured I won't have to look for an upgrade ever, or at least for a LONG time. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/trinxified-1614/hero/2139049 - Not buffed with WotB, if anyone asks. Just the usual Warcry, Battle Rage, Enchantress. | ||
|
LingsAreBunnies
United States103 Posts
On August 30 2012 05:10 Hairy wrote: Before changing your gear, try just changing skills! It's much easier, and cheaper, to do I sound like a broken record, I know, but Leap + Iron Impact is superb for this build. 4 out of every 10 seconds having the ability to be near-invincible (not to mention the ability to escape icky situations), really helps. Plus, instead of having to carefully initiate fights with scary enemies, you just leap right in their face! By the time your buff runs out you will have the healing flowing from your tornadoes. ------------ The reason someone recommended a weapon change, is that the WW/Sprint build uses the mainhand weapon for 80 - 85% of it's overall damage output. The character sheet doesn't know this; it assumes the weapons are being used 50/50. This makes for misleading advice from the game's DPS "help". The crit damage on your mainhand weapon might be increasing your overall damage output by say, 30%.... but your mainhand weapon is only 676 DPS. Let's calculate what the mainhand weapon DPS would have to be to give you the same damage overall.... 676 DPS weapon, used for 80% of all damage To get an overall dps increase of 30% (to compensate for losing crit damage), we need to increase mainhand DPS by 37.5% 676 DPS + 37.5% = 929.5 DPS So, if you swapped out your mainhand weapon for one with the same stats, but with no crit damage whatsoever, you could get one with just ~929 DPS and equal your current DPS***. A raw 1200 DPS weapon, with no stats at all, would be a considerable upgrade. *** A reminder; the character sheet DPS would be confused and consider this to be a downgrade, because it incorrectly assumes we are using our weapons 50/50, when in fact it's ~80/20. hm leap does sound like an interesting option, it gets rid of the problem of me occaisonally getting bursted down trying to engage a lot of ranged mobs and I can probably get away with crappy defensive stats. but how would I deal with, say 1-2 kiting elites that have molten/desecrator/some damaging affixes, and nothing else around them? feels like I cant generate anywhere fury to sustain sprint or ww in those cases. Right now most of the time I just chase and bash them down. oh thats interesting, didnt know offhand weapons were that irrelevant in damage. is there a way to more accurately calculate how much dps crit damage is "worth"? Im kinda curious where you got that 30%, Im very surprised that 676 dps with 170+ crit damage is beaten by a 930 dps no crit damage weapon. Also, how much loh can I afford to give up if I were to get a stronger mainhand, if at all or should I get some loh on my other pieces? Thanks for your help! | ||
|
Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
On August 30 2012 07:38 LingsAreBunnies wrote: hm leap does sound like an interesting option, it gets rid of the problem of me occaisonally getting bursted down trying to engage a lot of ranged mobs and I can probably get away with crappy defensive stats. but how would I deal with, say 1-2 kiting elites that have molten/desecrator/some damaging affixes, and nothing else around them? feels like I cant generate anywhere fury to sustain sprint or ww in those cases. Right now most of the time I just chase and bash them down. I have a cold weapon that I switch to against any ranged mob that tries to kite me, because it means I can actually just run circles around them and kill them with tornadoes reasonably effectively (eg it's possible to surround a goblin in tornadoes and he never moves). oh thats interesting, didnt know offhand weapons were that irrelevant in damage. is there a way to more accurately calculate how much dps crit damage is "worth"? Im kinda curious where you got that 30%, Im very surprised that 676 dps with 170+ crit damage is beaten by a 930 dps no crit damage weapon. The calculations were a little basic, but the ballpark figure should be correct. I can do it more precisely... Also, how much loh can I afford to give up if I were to get a stronger mainhand, if at all or should I get some loh on my other pieces? Thanks for your help! It's hard to say. Will you be using leap? How good at you at avoiding fire? How much health will you have? If your health is lower, you will require higher LOH to be stable. It's really up to you to know how much survivability seems ok to you; I'm not going to tell an experienced barb "correct" numbers to go for. What I CAN tell you is that I'm currently at 49k health and 1100 LOH and do fine. That said, however, I've recently started just equipping my (previously mentioned) cold weapon in my mainhand (giving me ~700 more LOH) against elites with nasty affixes + reflect damage. My DPS has climbed to the stage where that reflect damage is starting to be a bit of a headache, and the extra LOH helps out in those circumstances. | ||
| ||
