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Yes blizzard definately needs to look at WD dps. The CC just isn't enough to make up for it in inferno. But there is more than that too, simple playability. Let's look at 3 different scenario's:
- you are facing a very large pack of white mobs coming at you
- you are facing an elite pack
- you are doing a scripted endboss
For WD you have 3 basic dps builds that work, VQ bears, VQ dire bats with ranged rune, and splinter spam. But all of them have their pros and cons, there are mana issues, itemization issues if you want to switch between builds (and changing skills removes NV), you need to have the right CC spells to fit the event, etc.
The optimal DH way to deal with these 3 very different situations? You spam Nether Tentacles at them.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
This thread at diablofans: http://www.diablofans.com/topic/44922-my-humble-opinion-on-wd-skillset/ sums our skills up pretty good. Splinters is the only viable single target DPS in most cases, Spiders / ... worthless in Inferno and that's true for so much more skills. I can't see that much different build Blizz wanted to achieve with their skilltree reworks t_T
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On June 06 2012 16:57 dezi wrote:
Haha, just found a ~800DPS, 160agi bow before i went to uni today. Gave it to my newly 60 DH mate - he's at 41k DPS now ... new 60 ... 41k DPS ... i'm at 31k and at 60 for almost 2 weeks now - way to easy to stack damage on DH esp. when you consider DH stuff drops at nearly every champ/hero/... I want 1.03 with viable pets NOW.
I was at 55k dps about 30 minutes after I hit level 60 on my DH.
That is with no knowledge about the class at all, that half hour was spent with a friend telling me what to use as build and me shopping on the AH spending 1 mil gold to get items. Then we went on to do diablo so I could go to inferno. I think I bought the wrong items too, as I have a bow instead of a crossbow and no +critdmg.
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depend on your wd build, ias may or may not be needed at a high %. I used to pump alot ias and got a 'fake' 30k dps, my dart (splinter) dealt 7k average damage and it was a torture to walk in any land in act2 (but obviously i still dealt like 30k per second because i shot 1million darts per second).
now that I pump up int (only have 30% ias gears now) and using a 1.2k dps 2h with a 32k dps showed, my dart hits like 14k-17k average. Suddenly, act2 is not that hard anymore (most normal mobs are done with 2-5 darts) plus i have 42k hp! so no more 1-3hits kill for me except those bomb guys or the dude with the nail bat.
I hate the dpser WD so much. If i like being a dpser i'd go DH, i like my WD being a nuker!!! I am ok with my current build, splinter for smaller creeps and zombiebear/firebat for group fight (40-50k average and can go 100k+ crit!) but there is almost no way i can kill invulnerable/shield/wall etc elites without dying 30times. Those shitty affixes counter our nuking power too much, if only they tested that shit in the first place.
they definitely need to buff WD, we needed too much investment to boost our damage and the most logical build for WD is to become a subpar dpser in inferno is mind boggling.
fix the pets so we can have our tanks back, fix/neff some retarded affixes for anti-nuking, boost our base int/damage. WD is so much fun up until inferno. I keep changing my builds throughout my game from normal til hell and suddenly only 1.5 build is viable in inferno.
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speaking of which, I really think that zombiedog (in which the skill and its related skills almost made up 50% of our spells) is the best proof of bliz not testing the class in inferno AT ALL. I can assure that full zombiedog build is viable in hell and it was so much fun in some group fighting situation, insane aoe and burst damage (with abit of luck of course). I even purposely boost my pickup radius to increase that zombiedog respawn radius back then and it worked wonders.
tried full zombiedog build in inferno, ofc it failed miserably. and obviously there is no high tier gears with increased pickup radius. blizzard, what ya thinking when you put some much zombiedog in WD??!
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On June 06 2012 21:03 BurningSera wrote:
depend on your wd build, ias may or may not be needed at a high %. I used to pump alot ias and got a 'fake' 30k dps, my dart (splinter) dealt 7k average damage and it was a torture to walk in any land in act2 (but obviously i still dealt like 30k per second because i shot 1million darts per second).
now that I pump up int (only have 30% ias gears now) and using a 1.2k dps 2h with a 32k dps showed, my dart hits like 14k-17k average. Suddenly, act2 is not that hard anymore (most normal mobs are done with 2-5 darts) plus i have 42k hp! so no more 1-3hits kill for me except those bomb guys or the dude with the nail bat.
I hate the dpser WD so much. If i like being a dpser i'd go DH, i like my WD being a nuker!!! I am ok with my current build, splinter for smaller creeps and zombiebear/firebat for group fight (40-50k average and can go 100k+ crit!) but there is almost no way i can kill invulnerable/shield/wall etc elites without dying 30times. Those shitty affixes counter our nuking power too much, if only they tested that shit in the first place.
they definitely need to buff WD, we needed too much investment to boost our damage and the most logical build for WD is to become a subpar dpser in inferno is mind boggling.
fix the pets so we can have our tanks back, fix/neff some retarded affixes for anti-nuking, boost our base int/damage. WD is so much fun up until inferno. I keep changing my builds throughout my game from normal til hell and suddenly only 1.5 build is viable in inferno.
Inferno A2 is the brick wall due to shit jumping at you, but I don't think it's possible to do A3 without going for pure dps. The mobs hit a lot harder, it's more efficient to kill them before they kill you. The only projectile which is hard to dodge is from the blood clan spearman (can't see it,moves fast) so you don't get hit often, and fallen shamans will give you fits if you can't dps them down. Don't bother with tongue guys and phasebeasts... they'll rape you regardless.
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The tongue guys have the tendency to get choked up at the doorways if indoors. Whenever im with my templar they just idle at doorways untill I kill them. Only requirement is barricading it, get at an angle and shoot. When baricade dissapears they just stand there.
Phasebeasts... are unkillable
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[B]On June 06 2012 21:29 ihasaKAROT wrote:[/B
Phasebeasts... are unkillable
There is something horribly satisfying in watching a charmed fallen imp thing (them tiny ass dudes with cudgels) 2 shot~ a Phasebeast like they were nothing. Oh and I totally set a record today tanking a phase beast for nearly three whole seconds I think it was.
In other news for those thinking about the WD tank build with life on hit mentioned a few pages back for act 3 onwards... be ready to go so broke you'll be begging on the corner of the street. I think I've dumped about 12mill~ on Tank gear.
Off the top of my head I sit at about 47k hp 630~ all resists, 61%ish phys reduction, 7.9k armor, 1.7k Healthper second regen, 1.5k Life on Hit 2.1~ attack speed and with 5 stack Soul Harv at about 13k~ dps and well...act 3 is just as painful as if I was a pure glasscannon dps WD except I hit like a flowergirl.
I know some of its due to me playing on a really bad computer where if a mob moves the gameplay lag can cause me to miss a few toads if shift spamming but damn it is unforgiving. Oh and I have tried running with both Bad Medicine and Jungle Fortitude.
Though it is horribly fun being able to do anything in act1 without having to move. Tanking a Butcher at enrage with fire all around you is pretty fun. Standing in desecration with arcane sentries zapping you and random mortars tickle! But sadly this is all act 1
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On June 06 2012 21:29 ihasaKAROT wrote:
The tongue guys have the tendency to get choked up at the doorways if indoors. Whenever im with my templar they just idle at doorways untill I kill them. Only requirement is barricading it, get at an angle and shoot. When baricade dissapears they just stand there.
Phasebeasts... are unkillable
You can terrain abuse to kill them on those spiraly stairways where they show up. I did this part with a wizard, he lured them to a lower part and I'd be standing at a higher part and wittle them down from above. Occasionally one would teleport up, but then you only have to deal with one and we'd kite it around to kill it. It takes time but is very easy.
On June 06 2012 21:27 Heh_ wrote:
Inferno A2 is the brick wall due to shit jumping at you, but I don't think it's possible to do A3 without going for pure dps. The mobs hit a lot harder, it's more efficient to kill them before they kill you.
I think everyone dies to those lacuni you meet when they play act 2 for the first time  . But there is more to act 2 than just more mobile mobs, the average damage coming at you about doubles. Instead of getting 2-shot or 3-shot, you get 1-shot or 2-shot by faster mobs.
Also about brick walling, and this was the same for a friend who did it seperately from me, and is similar from everyone i know in the game who plays a sufficient amount, act 2 is the brick wall for gearing up, but the brick FORTRESS is act 4. What i mean is, I got to act 2 inferno and all I had done was buy a weapon on the AH and some gems that was it. The ramped up difficulty forced me to go farm and regear completely. But once you gear up from the AH with a few days of farm, you should have enough to get through acts 2 and 3. It will be act 4 that stops you dead in your tracks, noone I play with it in the game has beaten it yet. Once you are geared up properly, act 2 takes time but the hardest thing is actually Belial. Act 3 is way harder to get through, but the bosses are really easy.
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How much dps are you supposed to get when going fully dps?
Atm i got 54k dps (and only 15k life due to it).
Works fine for me in inferno, but i saw some people say they had 70k+?
I got like 2k int and a 900dmg 1 hander (with ias and int).
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I'll be happy if I get thru the first part of act2 by myself. Tho im pretty sure I need an upgrade in equipment with 27k dps
Any words on when the balancepatch will come?
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On June 06 2012 22:13 wintergt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:29 ihasaKAROT wrote:
The tongue guys have the tendency to get choked up at the doorways if indoors. Whenever im with my templar they just idle at doorways untill I kill them. Only requirement is barricading it, get at an angle and shoot. When baricade dissapears they just stand there.
Phasebeasts... are unkillable You can terrain abuse to kill them on those spiraly stairways where they show up. I did this part with a wizard, he lured them to a lower part and I'd be standing at a higher part and wittle them down from above. Occasionally one would teleport up, but then you only have to deal with one and we'd kite it around to kill it. It takes time but is very easy. Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:27 Heh_ wrote:
Inferno A2 is the brick wall due to shit jumping at you, but I don't think it's possible to do A3 without going for pure dps. The mobs hit a lot harder, it's more efficient to kill them before they kill you. I think everyone dies to those lacuni you meet when they play act 2 for the first time . But there is more to act 2 than just more mobile mobs, the average damage coming at you about doubles. Instead of getting 2-shot or 3-shot, you get 1-shot or 2-shot by faster mobs. Also about brick walling, and this was the same for a friend who did it seperately from me, and is similar from everyone i know in the game who plays a sufficient amount, act 2 is the brick wall for gearing up, but the brick FORTRESS is act 4. What i mean is, I got to act 2 inferno and all I had done was buy a weapon on the AH and some gems that was it. The ramped up difficulty forced me to go farm and regear completely. But once you gear up from the AH with a few days of farm, you should have enough to get through acts 2 and 3. It will be act 4 that stops you dead in your tracks, noone I play with it in the game has beaten it yet. Once you are geared up properly, act 2 takes time but the hardest thing is actually Belial. Act 3 is way harder to get through, but the bosses are really easy.
You forgot about those invisible snakes in A2... you can see them coming but can't damage them. So fucking annoying. That's another brick wall. A4 is the fortress because well... it's the final act. It's rightfully difficult. Corrupted angels are no fun. If A4 was a cakewalk, then the complaints won't stop coming... I bet I'll take at least 2 more weeks to complete A4. In the meantime, underbridge farming.
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i have never seen anyone fight tongue guy toe to toe. just run when you see that shit Q_Q
On June 06 2012 21:27 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:03 BurningSera wrote:
depend on your wd build, ias may or may not be needed at a high %. I used to pump alot ias and got a 'fake' 30k dps, my dart (splinter) dealt 7k average damage and it was a torture to walk in any land in act2 (but obviously i still dealt like 30k per second because i shot 1million darts per second).
now that I pump up int (only have 30% ias gears now) and using a 1.2k dps 2h with a 32k dps showed, my dart hits like 14k-17k average. Suddenly, act2 is not that hard anymore (most normal mobs are done with 2-5 darts) plus i have 42k hp! so no more 1-3hits kill for me except those bomb guys or the dude with the nail bat.
I hate the dpser WD so much. If i like being a dpser i'd go DH, i like my WD being a nuker!!! I am ok with my current build, splinter for smaller creeps and zombiebear/firebat for group fight (40-50k average and can go 100k+ crit!) but there is almost no way i can kill invulnerable/shield/wall etc elites without dying 30times. Those shitty affixes counter our nuking power too much, if only they tested that shit in the first place.
they definitely need to buff WD, we needed too much investment to boost our damage and the most logical build for WD is to become a subpar dpser in inferno is mind boggling.
fix the pets so we can have our tanks back, fix/neff some retarded affixes for anti-nuking, boost our base int/damage. WD is so much fun up until inferno. I keep changing my builds throughout my game from normal til hell and suddenly only 1.5 build is viable in inferno. Inferno A2 is the brick wall due to shit jumping at you, but I don't think it's possible to do A3 without going for pure dps. The mobs hit a lot harder, it's more efficient to kill them before they kill you. The only projectile which is hard to dodge is from the blood clan spearman (can't see it,moves fast) so you don't get hit often, and fallen shamans will give you fits if you can't dps them down. Don't bother with tongue guys and phasebeasts... they'll rape you regardless.
i was farming in act3 siegebreaker for awhile and I did fine except i cant kill the shield/invulnerable elites. too much attack speed is simply useless if you didnt have a good high damage weapon plus it drains mana too quick. i will just go retrain a dh if i wanna play a dps.
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On June 06 2012 22:46 BurningSera wrote:i have never seen anyone fight tongue guy toe to toe. just run when you see that shit Q_Q Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:27 Heh_ wrote:On June 06 2012 21:03 BurningSera wrote:
depend on your wd build, ias may or may not be needed at a high %. I used to pump alot ias and got a 'fake' 30k dps, my dart (splinter) dealt 7k average damage and it was a torture to walk in any land in act2 (but obviously i still dealt like 30k per second because i shot 1million darts per second).
now that I pump up int (only have 30% ias gears now) and using a 1.2k dps 2h with a 32k dps showed, my dart hits like 14k-17k average. Suddenly, act2 is not that hard anymore (most normal mobs are done with 2-5 darts) plus i have 42k hp! so no more 1-3hits kill for me except those bomb guys or the dude with the nail bat.
I hate the dpser WD so much. If i like being a dpser i'd go DH, i like my WD being a nuker!!! I am ok with my current build, splinter for smaller creeps and zombiebear/firebat for group fight (40-50k average and can go 100k+ crit!) but there is almost no way i can kill invulnerable/shield/wall etc elites without dying 30times. Those shitty affixes counter our nuking power too much, if only they tested that shit in the first place.
they definitely need to buff WD, we needed too much investment to boost our damage and the most logical build for WD is to become a subpar dpser in inferno is mind boggling.
fix the pets so we can have our tanks back, fix/neff some retarded affixes for anti-nuking, boost our base int/damage. WD is so much fun up until inferno. I keep changing my builds throughout my game from normal til hell and suddenly only 1.5 build is viable in inferno. Inferno A2 is the brick wall due to shit jumping at you, but I don't think it's possible to do A3 without going for pure dps. The mobs hit a lot harder, it's more efficient to kill them before they kill you. The only projectile which is hard to dodge is from the blood clan spearman (can't see it,moves fast) so you don't get hit often, and fallen shamans will give you fits if you can't dps them down. Don't bother with tongue guys and phasebeasts... they'll rape you regardless. i was farming in act3 siegebreaker for awhile and I did fine except i cant kill the shield/invulnerable elites. too much attack speed is simply useless if you didnt have a good high damage weapon plus it drains mana too quick. i will just go retrain a dh if i wanna play a dps.
DHs have more dps, but they still die too quick to those elites. They don't have as many "oh shit" buttons at their disposal, and they don't have the awesome skill known as spirit vessel. You have to be a lot more careful when rolling a DH.
If you see one of those things you can't kill, find a dead end and go suicide. You don't get the valor stack, but at least you can proceed on.
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They have the same amount of escapes , but 3x as much DPS
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On June 06 2012 23:12 ihasaKAROT wrote:
They have the same amount of escapes , but 3x as much DPS
AFAIK, it's only vault. They have a skill that recharges discipline, but still relying on vault. Caltrops = grasp of the dead. Besides spirit walk and spirit vessel, WD still has other "oh shit" buttons like hex and horrify. At the end of the day, DH is about tentacle spam just like WD is about splinter spam.
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Thats it tho, tentaclespam is doing tonnes more damage, while having the same escapeskills. Smokescreen, gloom, vaulting, traps, lots of movement ...
WD need a buff and imo theres no discussion on that, only from people without a WD character ...
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On June 06 2012 23:23 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Thats it tho, tentaclespam is doing tonnes more damage, while having the same escapeskills. Smokescreen, gloom, vaulting, traps, lots of movement ...
WD need a buff and imo theres no discussion on that, only from people without a WD character ...
Yes I do have a WD, DH is pretty overpowered. Most of the discussion about buffing WD affects the pets though, not to make a better poison dart.
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On June 06 2012 23:17 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:12 ihasaKAROT wrote:
They have the same amount of escapes , but 3x as much DPS AFAIK, it's only vault. They have a skill that recharges discipline, but still relying on vault. Caltrops = grasp of the dead. Besides spirit walk and spirit vessel, WD still has other "oh shit" buttons like hex and horrify. At the end of the day, DH is about tentacle spam just like WD is about splinter spam.
smokescreen and vault: 2 running skills, spirit vessel is a passive, spiritwalk is not even like windwalk, if the mobs hit hard on your spirit you will be revealed instantly ie, a shitty 3s windwalk-like invisible. hex is single target and horrify is a half-assed escape mechanism and not helping you to kill them. while if you have all these skills equipped to help you survive, dh only needed 2 skills for the same purpose.
Traps are instant cast and you can make tonnes of them (just make move a step and make one) and 1 vault away to enjoy raping. not to mention their sharpshooter/crit spell, dh is able to deal alot of damage with relatively less investment than WD. The bottomline is, at least to me, what is the point of playing as a subpar dpser, when we have awesome summoning spells and great CC abilities? if only bliz made those summoning spells and cc abilities actually useful in killing shit in inferno.
I played DH on NA when eu is down (lol) and literally nothing can come close to me, neff dh!! /jk
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incoming WD nerf in patch 1.03
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6262208/Patch_103_Design_Preview-6_6_2012#blog
Whoa, Whoa, Nice Shootin’ Tex
We’re fixing a number of bugs with Attack Speed, mainly related to the stat not working on some items, but we’ve also decided we need to reduce the effectiveness of Increased Attack Speed overall. Many players have commented that Increased Attack Speed is such a dominant stat they feel it’s required. While we don’t have an issue with there being important stats, Increased Attack Speed in particular has secondary effects on mobility in combat, resource generation and resource consumption. We want there to be options and considerations for how you gear up, and one uber trump-everything stat can really work against choice and options. There are two different solutions we’re considering to reduce the effectiveness of Increased Attack Speed. The first is to simply reduce the value on all the items to their desired values. In general our desire is to never change items as that makes them feel less concrete, but the upside is you would still be able to look at an item and know exactly what you are getting. The other approach is to change the formula used for attack speed aggregation so that stacking attack speed from multiple slots suffers from diminishing returns. The downside of that approach is that it introduces yet another hidden modifier on an item property (and many people dislike hidden modifiers), and complicates the already difficult decision of item gearing. We’re currently leaning toward the first solution, to simply reduce the value on items, but we’d be interested to read people’s thoughts on the problem.
WD cast animations are affected by attack speed. DH and Wizards cast animations are instant cast.
looks like WD has to wait until patch 1.1 to see how Blizzard will buff pets
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EPT
