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On July 17 2012 22:06 Yttrasil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 17:00 Hydrolisko wrote:On July 17 2012 12:27 Yttrasil wrote:
Seriously guys, don't use normal diamond skin if you have decent gear, also try to get LOH on 1 ring and the amulet, that is key, you can tank 3 desecrators in act 2 and 2 in act3 np. Use the one that does damage when it wears of with that build, it will double your damage AND make you crit even more with freeze etc, also wormhole instead of slow time is much much better, also cd red passive ftw! I am totally confused haha. There's ppl here saying you dont need LOH because you'll never get hit. Then another few saying at least a moderate amount of LOH is key. I also remember seeing someone's video here with the ww build, and his life was going down and back up pretty rapidly--a pretty clear indication of the need of quite a bit of LOH. Are these all same builds? What am I missing? They are different, however the one I mentioned and built from day 2 after the wicked wind started working is the best of them if one has decent or better gear and I'll try to explain why. There is one build which involves spectral blades, it's decent and rather safe however very inefficient and slow. The second one is with chain reaction, slow time, normal diamond skin, it works well and I used it on day 1 before I found the one I and my friends used from day 2 onward. The second one can tank abit more as diamond skin can tank some damage for you also slow time helps abit, however you do subpar damage and don't freeze as much as you could do. For this reason LOH isn't imperative and in act2 maybe 300 is sufficient, act 3 surely requires 600+ to do decent with some decent gear and also around 15ap on crit to be efficient. The third build however is the fastest and best one for fast efficient farming while having tons of fun, the consequence however is you need better gear overall with 700ish LOH in act2 and maybe 1.2k+ (more is better in general) in act3 and also around 25ap on crit to have enough ap for effective single target damage. It relies on having ww, chain reaction and most importantly diamond skin with shatter damage as your 3 damage dealers. The point is that diamond skin with shatter actually does 50%+ of your total damage, it also crits and tanks (however tanks less than the build above) making it even more efficient, also CD passive is great as it multiplies every cooldown and damage from diamond skin etc. Hence you deal damage ALOT faster than the other builds, while losing some of the survivability hence LOH is key. The last point with this build is wormhole, as ww resets your wormhole constantly you just teleport around searching for elites and if you don't find any you just throw down a ww to reset wormhole to once again teleport through the map in search of them. For this reason also the most efficient farming is in act2, as you are insanely fast and hence don't need the really good gear for act3, while it is easy to do as well it just isn't as fast as act 2 as elites take a few seconds longer to kill. Hope this explains it well enough, if not just try using the other diamond skin to see your damage surge ALOT vs multiple targets and very much vs single ones. Oh, just to add, the thing is with the last build 20k total damage does just as much damage as 40k damage does in the build above that. Hence finding a weapon with LOH and ap on crit might actually be alot cheaper and easier to do. So it has some advantages as well...
ahh thanks, that helps a lot. Do you run with a shield or source?
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I still don't get why people are in need of LoH for WW build, when I tried it I only had 8 ap on crit, 48% crit chance, even used a source, no LoH or high resists etc.
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On July 17 2012 22:06 Yttrasil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 17:00 Hydrolisko wrote:On July 17 2012 12:27 Yttrasil wrote:
Seriously guys, don't use normal diamond skin if you have decent gear, also try to get LOH on 1 ring and the amulet, that is key, you can tank 3 desecrators in act 2 and 2 in act3 np. Use the one that does damage when it wears of with that build, it will double your damage AND make you crit even more with freeze etc, also wormhole instead of slow time is much much better, also cd red passive ftw! I am totally confused haha. There's ppl here saying you dont need LOH because you'll never get hit. Then another few saying at least a moderate amount of LOH is key. I also remember seeing someone's video here with the ww build, and his life was going down and back up pretty rapidly--a pretty clear indication of the need of quite a bit of LOH. Are these all same builds? What am I missing? They are different, however the one I mentioned and built from day 2 after the wicked wind started working is the best of them if one has decent or better gear and I'll try to explain why. There is one build which involves spectral blades, it's decent and rather safe however very inefficient and slow. The second one is with chain reaction, slow time, normal diamond skin, it works well and I used it on day 1 before I found the one I and my friends used from day 2 onward. The second one can tank abit more as diamond skin can tank some damage for you also slow time helps abit, however you do subpar damage and don't freeze as much as you could do. For this reason LOH isn't imperative and in act2 maybe 300 is sufficient, act 3 surely requires 600+ to do decent with some decent gear and also around 15ap on crit to be efficient. The third build however is the fastest and best one for fast efficient farming while having tons of fun, the consequence however is you need better gear overall with 700ish LOH in act2 and maybe 1.2k+ (more is better in general) in act3 and also around 25ap on crit to have enough ap for effective single target damage. It relies on having ww, chain reaction and most importantly diamond skin with shatter damage as your 3 damage dealers. The point is that diamond skin with shatter actually does 50%+ of your total damage, it also crits and tanks (however tanks less than the build above) making it even more efficient, also CD passive is great as it multiplies every cooldown and damage from diamond skin etc. Hence you deal damage ALOT faster than the other builds, while losing some of the survivability hence LOH is key. The last point with this build is wormhole, as ww resets your wormhole constantly you just teleport around searching for elites and if you don't find any you just throw down a ww to reset wormhole to once again teleport through the map in search of them. For this reason also the most efficient farming is in act2, as you are insanely fast and hence don't need the really good gear for act3, while it is easy to do as well it just isn't as fast as act 2 as elites take a few seconds longer to kill. Hope this explains it well enough, if not just try using the other diamond skin to see your damage surge ALOT vs multiple targets and very much vs single ones. Oh, just to add, the thing is with the last build 20k total damage does just as much damage as 40k damage does in the build above that. Hence finding a weapon with LOH and ap on crit might actually be alot cheaper and easier to do. So it has some advantages as well...
do you use pinpoint armor?
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: any tips on mechanics of the build? button layouts, etc. I feel like I'm missing frost novas and diamond skins, or spamming too much and not having enough twisters up. I'm up to 20 AP on crit and 38% crit chance
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its easy, i just spam left click (twister) 1 (freeze) 2(diamond armor) really quick. with 40% crit and 100 AP and 20-30 ap on crit, the mobs cant even move becuase they are frozen the whole time, i dont even NEED the armor but i still use it to be 100% safe.
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On July 18 2012 10:03 sc2terran wrote:
its easy, i just spam left click (twister) 1 (freeze) 2(diamond armor) really quick. with 40% crit and 100 AP and 20-30 ap on crit, the mobs cant even move becuase they are frozen the whole time, i dont even NEED the armor but i still use it to be 100% safe.
Out of curiosity. What act do you farm? And how often do you die (to what sorts of packs)? Would appreciate an honest answer. I'm trying to shop gear right now for the build. Would like to know if I should fully invest.
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desecrators are the bane of my existence with this build. shielding is pretty bad too
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On July 18 2012 11:27 Hydrolisko wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 10:03 sc2terran wrote:
its easy, i just spam left click (twister) 1 (freeze) 2(diamond armor) really quick. with 40% crit and 100 AP and 20-30 ap on crit, the mobs cant even move becuase they are frozen the whole time, i dont even NEED the armor but i still use it to be 100% safe. Out of curiosity. What act do you farm? And how often do you die (to what sorts of packs)? Would appreciate an honest answer. I'm trying to shop gear right now for the build. Would like to know if I should fully invest.
i can farm act 2 easily, the only packs i die to sometimes is like, invul minions or like teleport/vortex + firechains
edit- really the only times i die is when im trying to set up the mobs to get hit all at once by my twister/freeze. when i die its 99% of the time at that point.
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On July 17 2012 16:54 Hydrolisko wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 15:52 TheRealDudeMan wrote:On July 17 2012 08:08 Inflexion wrote:
I'm not sure if I'm talking about the same thing as everyone =S
The build I'm using and a lot of other wizards I watch on stream isn't exactly a melee build. I would call it the ww/crit/aponcrit build as opposed to melee build to avoid confusion.
The only thing that I would consider melee about this ww/frostnova/crit/ap on crit build is the fact that you need to get in melee range.
I don't expect to be tanking hits from mobs or stand in desecrator holes; with high enough crit chances/ap on crit, most mobs don't even touch you as you perma-freeze them and have diamond skin up 100% up anyways. I'm not stacking armor or hp or LoH (what I mean buy this is when I am looking for gear, I still value int, crit, dmg, all res heavily over say a monk who specifically looks at armor, vit, allres, shield, dmg reduction, etc.).
Are the people who are talking about a 'melee build' something entirely different from what I am talking about? Are you guys playing like a monk? Like for example, wearing a shield and actually taking hits with high armor/all res/vit/dmg reduction? Yes I'm playing like a monk so to speak. My build is totally seperate from the ww build. what is your build?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#WZeYmO!afX!YYbYYc
I've posted this before so PM me if you have any questions. Arcane mines can be cast without breaking RoF. It is a pretty expensive build to be able to tank act 3 + 4 but really cheap to go up to act 2. Armor/vit/Range Reduction/allres/intel/str
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i added 6.5% crit, 450 loh and 9 ap on crit at the expense of about 8k dps, 400 armor and 60 RA and it's like night and day.
i went from dying to anything but illusionist in act 3 to even beating desecration/shielders.
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On July 18 2012 07:56 AnAngryDingo wrote:
: any tips on mechanics of the build? button layouts, etc. I feel like I'm missing frost novas and diamond skins, or spamming too much and not having enough twisters up. I'm up to 20 AP on crit and 38% crit chance
- Use frost nova as your main cc, obviously. there's no reason to ever pop diamond skin (unless you are using the dmg rune i guess) if you are not going to be taking any damage, like if everything is stun locked from FN. Try to not double up your frost nova too much. I mean if you get your CD back in .5 seconds then don't hit it again right away.
- Try to keep everything in a close group, things can go bad when ranged enemies start running away... make sure you save your diamond skin for when this happens.
- If you are dealing with desecration pop it as soon as you see the thing on the ground come up. Whenever it wears off teleport out. Try to keep it up at all times against fire chains and teleport out if you are ever out of frost nova and diamond skin.
- There is no reason to hit explosive blast more than every 3-4 seconds as you would just be restarting the attack.
- As for shielding, I mostly kite them with the WW until 2-3 of them are not shielded and then I jump in and use tele to get out.
- I usually just hold left click the whole time for WW, which is probably not ideal but I'm lazy. I would try to spread them out and reapply them after 4-5 seconds.
- As long as you are not dealing with desecration or shielding or firechains it is usually not a bad idea to teleport into a big group of eneemies (especially trash) and go to town. The more mobs you have, the better.
- Aggroing a lot of trash and pulling them to a fight with an elite can make the fight pretty easy until all the trash dies.
My hotkeys are
1-fn
2-eb
3-ds
4-fa
l click-ww
r click- tele
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On July 19 2012 03:36 sjschmidt93 wrote:
i added 6.5% crit, 450 loh and 9 ap on crit at the expense of about 8k dps, 400 armor and 60 RA and it's like night and day.
i went from dying to anything but illusionist in act 3 to even beating desecration/shielders.
What's your total crit, loh, and ap on crit now?
I have 1k loh, bout 36 crit and 22 ap on crit and I sitll die to at least 50% of mobs in a3. Yikes.
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On July 19 2012 13:19 Hydrolisko wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 03:36 sjschmidt93 wrote:
i added 6.5% crit, 450 loh and 9 ap on crit at the expense of about 8k dps, 400 armor and 60 RA and it's like night and day.
i went from dying to anything but illusionist in act 3 to even beating desecration/shielders. What's your total crit, loh, and ap on crit now? I have 1k loh, bout 36 crit and 22 ap on crit and I sitll die to at least 50% of mobs in a3. Yikes.
what's your HP/All resists/DPS?
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On July 19 2012 13:28 Ryan307  wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 13:19 Hydrolisko wrote:On July 19 2012 03:36 sjschmidt93 wrote:
i added 6.5% crit, 450 loh and 9 ap on crit at the expense of about 8k dps, 400 armor and 60 RA and it's like night and day.
i went from dying to anything but illusionist in act 3 to even beating desecration/shielders. What's your total crit, loh, and ap on crit now? I have 1k loh, bout 36 crit and 22 ap on crit and I sitll die to at least 50% of mobs in a3. Yikes. what's your HP/All resists/DPS?
I think I've just figured it out haha. Beat 3 hard packs pretty handily in a3 just now... even though now my hands are sore as hell.
My HP is 38k, resis 7-800ish with prismatic, dps 12k lol. What was key was sjschmidt's advice. Save up diamond skin is absolute key. I used to just spam every key as they came available. And sometimes my crits dont proc and I have no diamond skin when i need it. Now I save it and only use it when i'm about to die, then allow my 1k LOH to heal me up in the mean time. I also added teleport to the build and it saves me. Good stuff guys.
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i now have 500 loh, 9 apoc, 41.5% crit (w/ scoundrel), 43k hp, 790 AR (w/ prism.), 4.7k armor and 38k damage
I still struggle with some of the latter parts of Act III and can't really do Act IV with the build, I probably need more survivability as I can't see more dps (or crit% really) helping me out at all. Firechains and shielding can still be pretty much impossible, so much so that I think even upgrading my gear a moderate amount wouldn't matter. But at the same time, from what I've read I have more than enough AR and hp for the build... I could go more loh and maybe switch my socket to amethyst but I still don't see that changing much. A lot of people say you need a lot of apoc but to me 9 feels just fine, maybe I'll realize I'm crazy if I up it to 16-20, I don't know.
I've messed around with switching tele for archon to help with the anti-melee packs and have even switched to some really good "tank" (no intel) gear to help accommodate my squishyness while in archon but it doesn't really seem to matter. I know my gear could be better but I feel like it would take a HUGE jump to be able to farm act III at the same level that I can farm act II atm.
I guess to someone who can farm act III/do act IV in with this build easily: what do I need to improve the most? AR/crit%/loh/armor/apoc?
I really don't want to go back to being a kiter, lol.
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get more AP on crit first and foremost. you can afford to drop 10kish dps if need be. 20 AP on crit makes a world of difference.
your resists could also be higher. again, sac some dps if you have to
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
storm armor shocking aspect rune is really good for Act 1. ups the DPS by A LOT
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Any Explosive Blast wizards on here killed Belial solo with that spec? If so, how much DPS did you need to do it? Currently on him right now, but I can only get him to around 15% or so on phase 3 before he starts spamming his giant everything-dies green bombs.
Edit: Of course, after asking, got him. Took the enchantress along, swapped out shield for DPS Source and extra AP on Crit, for anyone looking for ideas with the same problem.
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On July 20 2012 14:06 sjschmidt93 wrote:
i now have 500 loh, 9 apoc, 41.5% crit (w/ scoundrel), 43k hp, 790 AR (w/ prism.), 4.7k armor and 38k damage
I still struggle with some of the latter parts of Act III and can't really do Act IV with the build, I probably need more survivability as I can't see more dps (or crit% really) helping me out at all. Firechains and shielding can still be pretty much impossible, so much so that I think even upgrading my gear a moderate amount wouldn't matter. But at the same time, from what I've read I have more than enough AR and hp for the build... I could go more loh and maybe switch my socket to amethyst but I still don't see that changing much. A lot of people say you need a lot of apoc but to me 9 feels just fine, maybe I'll realize I'm crazy if I up it to 16-20, I don't know.
I've messed around with switching tele for archon to help with the anti-melee packs and have even switched to some really good "tank" (no intel) gear to help accommodate my squishyness while in archon but it doesn't really seem to matter. I know my gear could be better but I feel like it would take a HUGE jump to be able to farm act III at the same level that I can farm act II atm.
I guess to someone who can farm act III/do act IV in with this build easily: what do I need to improve the most? AR/crit%/loh/armor/apoc?
I really don't want to go back to being a kiter, lol.
I can farm act 3 fairly easily, act 4 is a waste of time imho, the length of act 3 makes it better for farming.
Refer my attached stats and read below for what i have.
In comparison to you i have 540 LOH but with 310 LPS (yes i use galvanising but not always), 44.5 crit but I don't use the scoundral, prefer enchantress for her armor buff, attack speed buff and charm. Slightly higher resists but more armour with enchantress (survivability) which you don't lose when she decides to stand in pools of deadly stuff so she can die. Also more HP with my big gem on helm. I also use astral precense and only have the 9 apoc also so no your not crazy (but it definitely would help obviously), i spam frost nova, strategically place me twisters and time my diamond skins (only spam when i'm in a mass of mobs). Whilst tanky, i kite the really hard elites and rares around my cyclones. I will also use archon form for my right click for farming but only use it to clear heaps of mobs, i purposely right click to get out of archon form for champs as archon abilities suck for survivability (sure the bonus resists are ok but if you have enough already it's overkill). Only time i stay in archon form for champs are for the annoying ones that shield / and or run away from you (ranged). I use the teleport with fracture and use it as much as I can to keep the two mirrors and get out of rough spots such as waller / arcane.
I wouldn't advise any more than say 900 resists generally as you really don't get much for what you spend after that, 900 to all is more than enough imo. I just have happened to have a few stacked upon all resists which is why i have some over 1k. If you want to improve survivability you obvisouly need to focus on resists (900 is good) armour (get enchantress as a start), vitality (make sure you have helm with a massive pink gem if you can afford it), life on hit (not sure what you have on your amulet, but my 543 is all from my amulet and i have none on my rings or weapons which are the other sources), life per sec (regen) which ticks every half second, good to have if you already have some (my 310 is from galvaninise ward lol), and make sure to only use health globes when you need it (strategic pick up, and you should take into account any health globe bonuses you may have to efficiently use them) which should be easy to get as everything is frozen and you can use teleport (i play monk also and it's hard to strategically pickup sometimes when you're surrounded and even worse i have no movespeed on my monk  which doesn't help kiting ). Teleport Fracture is obviously also good for survivability and like spawned health potions use ur own health potions only when needed.
I know what you mean by the kiting and I feel you bro. All the best.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 21 2012 20:37 crisiscore wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 14:06 sjschmidt93 wrote:
i now have 500 loh, 9 apoc, 41.5% crit (w/ scoundrel), 43k hp, 790 AR (w/ prism.), 4.7k armor and 38k damage
I still struggle with some of the latter parts of Act III and can't really do Act IV with the build, I probably need more survivability as I can't see more dps (or crit% really) helping me out at all. Firechains and shielding can still be pretty much impossible, so much so that I think even upgrading my gear a moderate amount wouldn't matter. But at the same time, from what I've read I have more than enough AR and hp for the build... I could go more loh and maybe switch my socket to amethyst but I still don't see that changing much. A lot of people say you need a lot of apoc but to me 9 feels just fine, maybe I'll realize I'm crazy if I up it to 16-20, I don't know.
I've messed around with switching tele for archon to help with the anti-melee packs and have even switched to some really good "tank" (no intel) gear to help accommodate my squishyness while in archon but it doesn't really seem to matter. I know my gear could be better but I feel like it would take a HUGE jump to be able to farm act III at the same level that I can farm act II atm.
I guess to someone who can farm act III/do act IV in with this build easily: what do I need to improve the most? AR/crit%/loh/armor/apoc?
I really don't want to go back to being a kiter, lol. I can farm act 3 fairly easily, act 4 is a waste of time imho, the length of act 3 makes it better for farming. Refer my attached stats and read below for what i have. In comparison to you i have 540 LOH but with 310 LPS (yes i use galvanising but not always), 44.5 crit but I don't use the scoundral, prefer enchantress for her armor buff, attack speed buff and charm. Slightly higher resists but more armour with enchantress (survivability) which you don't lose when she decides to stand in pools of deadly stuff so she can die. Also more HP with my big gem on helm. I also use astral precense and only have the 9 apoc also so no your not crazy (but it definitely would help obviously), i spam frost nova, strategically place me twisters and time my diamond skins (only spam when i'm in a mass of mobs). Whilst tanky, i kite the really hard elites and rares around my cyclones. I will also use archon form for my right click for farming but only use it to clear heaps of mobs, i purposely right click to get out of archon form for champs as archon abilities suck for survivability (sure the bonus resists are ok but if you have enough already it's overkill). Only time i stay in archon form for champs are for the annoying ones that shield / and or run away from you (ranged). I use the teleport with fracture and use it as much as I can to keep the two mirrors and get out of rough spots such as waller / arcane. I wouldn't advise any more than say 900 resists generally as you really don't get much for what you spend after that, 900 to all is more than enough imo. I just have happened to have a few stacked upon all resists which is why i have some over 1k. If you want to improve survivability you obvisouly need to focus on resists (900 is good) armour (get enchantress as a start), vitality (make sure you have helm with a massive pink gem if you can afford it), life on hit (not sure what you have on your amulet, but my 543 is all from my amulet and i have none on my rings or weapons which are the other sources), life per sec (regen) which ticks every half second, good to have if you already have some (my 310 is from galvaninise ward lol), and make sure to only use health globes when you need it (strategic pick up, and you should take into account any health globe bonuses you may have to efficiently use them) which should be easy to get as everything is frozen and you can use teleport (i play monk also and it's hard to strategically pickup sometimes when you're surrounded and even worse i have no movespeed on my monk which doesn't help kiting ). Teleport Fracture is obviously also good for survivability and like spawned health potions use ur own health potions only when needed. I know what you mean by the kiting and I feel you bro. All the best. + Show Spoiler +
Yeah i think your armor is really the biggest deal. How many items do you have with bonus armor and +str? I only have 5800 w/ the enchantress buff
Your dps is also absurd but that's not really something I can afford to upgrade right now.
To be honest I'm not sure that farming Act III will even be worth it once I have the capability to do so because I'l kill stuff abut half as quick as I do in Act II.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7Huii.jpg)
