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On July 17 2012 03:30 Inflexion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:13 sjschmidt93 wrote: so where should i look to get ap on crit? i just sold my barb weapon for $50 and am looking to get a better wiz weapon and offhand... but it seems the wands that have ap on crit also have very little dps. (can't find anything >900 w/ socket)
is it worth the hit in dps or should I get it from the offhand and helm? or do I just need 1 ap on crit item?
thanks. The two cheapest places and most common places to find ap on crit are offhand and helm. If you're lower than 40% crit chance, I would suggest at the very least 14 ap on crit. If you're above 40%, 11-13 is fine, imo. Take this with a grain of salt, I haven't tested lower crit %s with this build. I can say, however, that at 45%+ crit chance, 10ap is fine. For your main hand, get a wand or dagger. The faster attack speed means faster casting animation and it'll scale with your ###-### dmg offhand better. Get one perferable with a socket in it so you can put crit dmg gem in it - every other stat on the weapon is a luxury.
a few posts up, you said critical damage was a luxury on weapon. here you say everything else is a luxury. which is it? seems to me that a decent amount of loh on wpn is absolutely crucial.
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wait, so source for an offhand is fine for the ww build? I thought you needed a shield.
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I would highly prefer a source due to arcane on crit
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now if I could just get up about 60-100m to get a source with good damage, critical chance, and AP on crit I could ditch this shield and be in business.....
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On July 17 2012 06:36 AnAngryDingo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 03:30 Inflexion wrote:On July 17 2012 02:13 sjschmidt93 wrote: so where should i look to get ap on crit? i just sold my barb weapon for $50 and am looking to get a better wiz weapon and offhand... but it seems the wands that have ap on crit also have very little dps. (can't find anything >900 w/ socket)
is it worth the hit in dps or should I get it from the offhand and helm? or do I just need 1 ap on crit item?
thanks. The two cheapest places and most common places to find ap on crit are offhand and helm. If you're lower than 40% crit chance, I would suggest at the very least 14 ap on crit. If you're above 40%, 11-13 is fine, imo. Take this with a grain of salt, I haven't tested lower crit %s with this build. I can say, however, that at 45%+ crit chance, 10ap is fine. For your main hand, get a wand or dagger. The faster attack speed means faster casting animation and it'll scale with your ###-### dmg offhand better. Get one perferable with a socket in it so you can put crit dmg gem in it - every other stat on the weapon is a luxury. a few posts up, you said critical damage was a luxury on weapon. here you say everything else is a luxury. which is it? seems to me that a decent amount of loh on wpn is absolutely crucial.
Errr, what I meant was that for a limited budget, I would always take the weapon with the highest raw dps + socket. That way if I have enough LoH, I can socket with Radiant Square Emerald for 70% (where else you gonna get 70% crit dmg for that price) or if I find that I need LoH (which you shouldn't need that much as you can get LoH from other pieces of equipment) I'll regem my weapon for LoH.
When you asked about your weapon, I had no idea you were sitting at 900+ LoH. That's why afterwards, when you posted your stats, I said you gotta lower it because you're dps is too low as you sacrificed too much dps for suvivability. That's why you are struggling with single target dps. If I knew you were sitting at those stats, I would've have told you to regem for more crit or get a weapon with just higher dps in general - which I did after you told me your stats.
Assuming the guy above me is going to spend the $50 on a weapon wiz weapon and he is going to slowly upgrade the rest of his gear, you always take the weapon with the highest dps + socket. Why would you buy a weapon (assuming he is going to spend this $50 on the best weapon possible and wait a long time before another upgrade in that department) with with significantly lower raw dps but little luxury stats like crit dmg (as a modifier, NOT socket) or LoH or AP on crit? He can make up those stats in his other gear and do slow upgrades.
Bottom line is, if you don't have 200 million to blow, get the highest dps weapon with a socket. Everything else is a luxury, including a crit dmg modifier on the weapon.
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I see. I should have been more clear. I wasn't sitting at 900 loh before I switched my wep out. all my loh is coming from a spear I'm using now with no socket or crit. modifiers.
the other weapon I posted about had 96% crit + socket. had it gemmed with a 300 loh amethyst. I notice a huge diff. in survivability with 900 loh as opposed to 300, even though my dps is lower.
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I'm not sure if I'm talking about the same thing as everyone =S
The build I'm using and a lot of other wizards I watch on stream isn't exactly a melee build. I would call it the ww/crit/aponcrit build as opposed to melee build to avoid confusion.
The only thing that I would consider melee about this ww/frostnova/crit/ap on crit build is the fact that you need to get in melee range.
I don't expect to be tanking hits from mobs or stand in desecrator holes; with high enough crit chances/ap on crit, most mobs don't even touch you as you perma-freeze them and have diamond skin up 100% up anyways. I'm not stacking armor or hp or LoH (what I mean buy this is when I am looking for gear, I still value int, crit, dmg, all res heavily over say a monk who specifically looks at armor, vit, allres, shield, dmg reduction, etc.).
Are the people who are talking about a 'melee build' something entirely different from what I am talking about? Are you guys playing like a monk? Like for example, wearing a shield and actually taking hits with high armor/all res/vit/dmg reduction?
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yes. I'm playing WW, deep freeze, chain reaction, diamond skin. I have 35kish HP, 30k dps, 850-950 Res all. something like 70% dmg reduction and also using blur. not at home atm. or I'd get the exact #s. I do run with a shield right now.
I'm facetanking most act3 elites with ease. certain ones are problematic tthough. ranged desecrators, arcane, and shielding mostly. y
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On July 17 2012 08:08 Inflexion wrote: I'm not sure if I'm talking about the same thing as everyone =S
The build I'm using and a lot of other wizards I watch on stream isn't exactly a melee build. I would call it the ww/crit/aponcrit build as opposed to melee build to avoid confusion.
The only thing that I would consider melee about this ww/frostnova/crit/ap on crit build is the fact that you need to get in melee range.
I don't expect to be tanking hits from mobs or stand in desecrator holes; with high enough crit chances/ap on crit, most mobs don't even touch you as you perma-freeze them and have diamond skin up 100% up anyways. I'm not stacking armor or hp or LoH (what I mean buy this is when I am looking for gear, I still value int, crit, dmg, all res heavily over say a monk who specifically looks at armor, vit, allres, shield, dmg reduction, etc.).
Are the people who are talking about a 'melee build' something entirely different from what I am talking about? Are you guys playing like a monk? Like for example, wearing a shield and actually taking hits with high armor/all res/vit/dmg reduction?
This is confusing me too, I get the same impression that two different builds are discussed when people bring in the need for LoH
40+ crit, arcane on crit, decent attack speed, and you should be good to go.
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mmm i was under the impression that everyone was talking baout the build drake22 posted earlier? he had about 800 loh? what is the diff b/w that build and the current one?
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Hello wizard friends! I recently dropped a source and since I know nothing about off hands on wizards, I was hoping you could help me out.
- 70-290 Damage - 66 Intelligence - 8 Crit chance - 12 Max arcane - Socket
Bottom line, is this any good? I wana sell it ofcourse.
Thank you, and I apologize for invading your topic like this, but I dont have any wizard RL friends.
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The wicked wind with perma bashing the spells freeze+diamond skin+explosive blast+slow time just kills everything without the need for any LoH.
You have diamond skin up at all times, and enemies mostly frozen, so there is no need for LoH, or shields etc.
Also the constant spam of freeze, explosive and slow time along with right passives makes you deal a ton of dmg actually.
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haven't seen the variation using slow time. seems interesting. I'm assuming you use the damage rune on slow time for 20% extra damage, and perhaps cold blooded for another 20%, since all your targets will be frozen. what type crit chance/ AP on ccrit ratio do you need to make this work?
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Seriously guys, don't use normal diamond skin if you have decent gear, also try to get LOH on 1 ring and the amulet, that is key, you can tank 3 desecrators in act 2 and 2 in act3 np. Use the one that does damage when it wears of with that build, it will double your damage AND make you crit even more with freeze etc, also wormhole instead of slow time is much much better, also cd red passive ftw!
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On July 17 2012 08:08 Inflexion wrote: I'm not sure if I'm talking about the same thing as everyone =S
The build I'm using and a lot of other wizards I watch on stream isn't exactly a melee build. I would call it the ww/crit/aponcrit build as opposed to melee build to avoid confusion.
The only thing that I would consider melee about this ww/frostnova/crit/ap on crit build is the fact that you need to get in melee range.
I don't expect to be tanking hits from mobs or stand in desecrator holes; with high enough crit chances/ap on crit, most mobs don't even touch you as you perma-freeze them and have diamond skin up 100% up anyways. I'm not stacking armor or hp or LoH (what I mean buy this is when I am looking for gear, I still value int, crit, dmg, all res heavily over say a monk who specifically looks at armor, vit, allres, shield, dmg reduction, etc.).
Are the people who are talking about a 'melee build' something entirely different from what I am talking about? Are you guys playing like a monk? Like for example, wearing a shield and actually taking hits with high armor/all res/vit/dmg reduction?
Yes I'm playing like a monk so to speak. My build is totally seperate from the ww build.
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just beat diablo :D
with the wicked wind build
38k hp 24K dmg 500 res 31% crit *for those who wanted to know what stats you can beat diablo with
thanks all for your tips and discussion! Maybe now its time to go back to sc2..
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On July 17 2012 02:43 babykoy wrote: farming act 1 (butcher runs) and act 2 (up to maghda only) inferno
melee wizard damage is now 17K all resists almost 1.2K HP is 56k
i still feel like a paper on act 3 though
What is your armor and what skills are you using? You can die easily in act 3 if you don't properly handle an engagement.
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On July 17 2012 15:52 TheRealDudeMan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 08:08 Inflexion wrote: I'm not sure if I'm talking about the same thing as everyone =S
The build I'm using and a lot of other wizards I watch on stream isn't exactly a melee build. I would call it the ww/crit/aponcrit build as opposed to melee build to avoid confusion.
The only thing that I would consider melee about this ww/frostnova/crit/ap on crit build is the fact that you need to get in melee range.
I don't expect to be tanking hits from mobs or stand in desecrator holes; with high enough crit chances/ap on crit, most mobs don't even touch you as you perma-freeze them and have diamond skin up 100% up anyways. I'm not stacking armor or hp or LoH (what I mean buy this is when I am looking for gear, I still value int, crit, dmg, all res heavily over say a monk who specifically looks at armor, vit, allres, shield, dmg reduction, etc.).
Are the people who are talking about a 'melee build' something entirely different from what I am talking about? Are you guys playing like a monk? Like for example, wearing a shield and actually taking hits with high armor/all res/vit/dmg reduction? Yes I'm playing like a monk so to speak. My build is totally seperate from the ww build.
what is your build?
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On July 17 2012 12:27 Yttrasil wrote: Seriously guys, don't use normal diamond skin if you have decent gear, also try to get LOH on 1 ring and the amulet, that is key, you can tank 3 desecrators in act 2 and 2 in act3 np. Use the one that does damage when it wears of with that build, it will double your damage AND make you crit even more with freeze etc, also wormhole instead of slow time is much much better, also cd red passive ftw!
I am totally confused haha. There's ppl here saying you dont need LOH because you'll never get hit. Then another few saying at least a moderate amount of LOH is key. I also remember seeing someone's video here with the ww build, and his life was going down and back up pretty rapidly--a pretty clear indication of the need of quite a bit of LOH. Are these all same builds? What am I missing?
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On July 17 2012 17:00 Hydrolisko wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 12:27 Yttrasil wrote: Seriously guys, don't use normal diamond skin if you have decent gear, also try to get LOH on 1 ring and the amulet, that is key, you can tank 3 desecrators in act 2 and 2 in act3 np. Use the one that does damage when it wears of with that build, it will double your damage AND make you crit even more with freeze etc, also wormhole instead of slow time is much much better, also cd red passive ftw! I am totally confused haha. There's ppl here saying you dont need LOH because you'll never get hit. Then another few saying at least a moderate amount of LOH is key. I also remember seeing someone's video here with the ww build, and his life was going down and back up pretty rapidly--a pretty clear indication of the need of quite a bit of LOH. Are these all same builds? What am I missing?
They are different, however the one I mentioned and built from day 2 after the wicked wind started working is the best of them if one has decent or better gear and I'll try to explain why. There is one build which involves spectral blades, it's decent and rather safe however very inefficient and slow. The second one is with chain reaction, slow time, normal diamond skin, it works well and I used it on day 1 before I found the one I and my friends used from day 2 onward. The second one can tank abit more as diamond skin can tank some damage for you also slow time helps abit, however you do subpar damage and don't freeze as much as you could do. For this reason LOH isn't imperative and in act2 maybe 300 is sufficient, act 3 surely requires 600+ to do decent with some decent gear and also around 15ap on crit to be efficient. The third build however is the fastest and best one for fast efficient farming while having tons of fun, the consequence however is you need better gear overall with 700ish LOH in act2 and maybe 1.2k+ (more is better in general) in act3 and also around 25ap on crit to have enough ap for effective single target damage.
It relies on having ww, chain reaction and most importantly diamond skin with shatter damage as your 3 damage dealers. The point is that diamond skin with shatter actually does 50%+ of your total damage, it also crits and tanks (however tanks less than the build above) making it even more efficient, also CD passive is great as it multiplies every cooldown and damage from diamond skin etc. Hence you deal damage ALOT faster than the other builds, while losing some of the survivability hence LOH is key. The last point with this build is wormhole, as ww resets your wormhole constantly you just teleport around searching for elites and if you don't find any you just throw down a ww to reset wormhole to once again teleport through the map in search of them. For this reason also the most efficient farming is in act2, as you are insanely fast and hence don't need the really good gear for act3, while it is easy to do as well it just isn't as fast as act 2 as elites take a few seconds longer to kill. Hope this explains it well enough, if not just try using the other diamond skin to see your damage surge ALOT vs multiple targets and very much vs single ones.
Oh, just to add, the thing is with the last build 20k total damage does just as much damage as 40k damage does in the build above that. Hence finding a weapon with LOH and ap on crit might actually be alot cheaper and easier to do. So it has some advantages as well...
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