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On June 06 2012 07:57 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:55 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 06 2012 07:32 Phael wrote:
That's like saying int and haste build off of each other because the more int you have, the more haste will add to damage, and vice versa. Which is totally true and yet irrelevant.
The value of balance is this:
You went all out on crit and crit damage, but didn't dump into int or haste:
Your damage multiplier is now 1x1x2x2 = 4
I went for balanced stats and so my multiplier is 1.5x1.5x1.5x1.5 = 5.0625
We both incremented the base stats by a total of 2. Your math is too simple and isn't appliable to anything at all with what we're talking about relative to the game design and item design. I don't think anyone is going pure crit. No one goes pure crit only with no int so why are you trying to argue it in that way? The fact is that most people gear out their character with 2 damage affixes per slot such as attack speed int, int crit, etc. Let's take int out of the picture because everything you get should and always will have some int on it. If not then the item is next to worthless in terms of gold cost and I refuse to believe anyone is that poor. On the flip side, very few people are so rich that they can afford every modifier (not to brag but I could, I just don't) and it would require a 2 hander for sure to make use of the attack speed modifiers. "balance" vs. "heavy in 2" per cost crit and crit damage + int will beat it out any day. You can do the math for yourself, but it's incredibly difficult for an attack speed crit/crit damage build to work out on all your items and give you an efficient DPS. what is the most common gear to get crit? gloves, shoulders, rings, amulets?
Shoulders don't give crit (maybe some legendaries? afaik none). Gloves give some of the best crit modifiers (up to 10% but those are expensive as well). I think crit/crit damage gloves are good and a lot cheaper than attack speed/crit. Amulets go for crit damage as well as rings. Weapons absolutely need crit damage. Again, you can go 2 hander or 1 hander now that I think of it, just realize you'll be sub 1.1 attack speed usually and lose 7% crit. I choose to go 1 hander until I find myself investing in 10 mill + ammies/rings with both attack speed and crit. Bracers and helm can also have crit, but I think the bracers can be expensive if you want all resist on them as well so I'd just go for crit, int, and vit on those. Mine only has like 14 all resist and it's still worth 2 mill+.
Maybe you could also just forego the attack speed/crit on ammies/amulets and get something like an andy's and those one boots that give attack speed as well with a 2 hander.
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We'll agree to disagree then. For what it's worth though, I'm sitting somewhat higher than 130k dps on a 20 mil budget following my balance plan 
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On June 06 2012 08:00 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:57 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 06 2012 07:55 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 06 2012 07:32 Phael wrote:
That's like saying int and haste build off of each other because the more int you have, the more haste will add to damage, and vice versa. Which is totally true and yet irrelevant.
The value of balance is this:
You went all out on crit and crit damage, but didn't dump into int or haste:
Your damage multiplier is now 1x1x2x2 = 4
I went for balanced stats and so my multiplier is 1.5x1.5x1.5x1.5 = 5.0625
We both incremented the base stats by a total of 2. Your math is too simple and isn't appliable to anything at all with what we're talking about relative to the game design and item design. I don't think anyone is going pure crit. No one goes pure crit only with no int so why are you trying to argue it in that way? The fact is that most people gear out their character with 2 damage affixes per slot such as attack speed int, int crit, etc. Let's take int out of the picture because everything you get should and always will have some int on it. If not then the item is next to worthless in terms of gold cost and I refuse to believe anyone is that poor. On the flip side, very few people are so rich that they can afford every modifier (not to brag but I could, I just don't) and it would require a 2 hander for sure to make use of the attack speed modifiers. "balance" vs. "heavy in 2" per cost crit and crit damage + int will beat it out any day. You can do the math for yourself, but it's incredibly difficult for an attack speed crit/crit damage build to work out on all your items and give you an efficient DPS. what is the most common gear to get crit? gloves, shoulders, rings, amulets? Shoulders don't give crit (maybe some legendaries? afaik none). Gloves give some of the best crit modifiers (up to 10% but those are expensive as well). I think crit/crit damage gloves are good and a lot cheaper than attack speed/crit. Amulets go for crit damage as well as rings. Weapons absolutely need crit damage. Again, you can go 2 hander or 1 hander now that I think of it, just realize you'll be sub 1.1 attack speed usually and lose 7% crit. I choose to go 1 hander until I find myself investing in 10 mill + ammies/rings with both attack speed and crit. Bracers and helm can also have crit, but I think the bracers can be expensive if you want all resist on them as well so I'd just go for crit, int, and vit on those. Mine only has like 14 all resist and it's still worth 2 mill+. Maybe you could also just forego the attack speed/crit on ammies/amulets and get something like an andy's and those one boots that give attack speed as well with a 2 hander.
cool, thanks. i am looking at adding more crit because i love seeing the golden huge numbers. i got the boots with attack speed; they dont work. blizzard fucked them up.
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Anyone know where the Shadow clone spawns in Phase 2 of the Diablo fight?
If the clone spawn on me I die instantly, would be nice to know where it spawn so i could prepair a blink in the right direction or something.
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On June 06 2012 08:05 Phael wrote:We'll agree to disagree then. For what it's worth though, I'm sitting somewhat higher than 130k dps on a 20 mil budget following my balance plan
You said you had 40% crit so I'm guessing you use a 1 hander + offhand? I'm interested in seeing what your gear is like, but I'm guessing you're lacking behind me in a lot of resists and armor. I could probably give up like 3 slots and get to your stats, but then I'd feel like I'm overstacking attack speed using a 1 hander. I'm literally sitting between 500-600 all resist but I'm thinking I could change my helm to massive int + crit as well as arcane on crit.
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Wow, 120k dps on a 20mil budget is amazing. I'm shooting for around 70-80k and I've planned to spend over 30mil. The weapon alone costs 10mil+.
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On June 06 2012 08:16 toemn wrote:
Wow, 120k dps on a 20mil budget is amazing. I'm shooting for around 70-80k and I've planned to spend over 30mil. The weapon alone costs 10mil+.
im seriously considering Occupy TeamLiquid. i have no money, all my gear is picked up off the ground, i am the 99%. ;-)
edit: except i bought my boots with +15% IAS that doesn't work because blizzard screwed me.
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2 hand; I use scoundrel ( and have recently obtained a lot of crit just because the items were cheap, but I honestly would go for less).
Off the top of my head, my armor is fairly significant, 63-64% redux on char screen (66 with enchantress?), resists are meh at 350-400 each, emphasis on phys and fire resist. 44k hp - so in act 3/4 there's only a handful of (avoidable)attacks that cap my force armor absorb so I don't see much point in raising defense.
The crown jewel of my gear though is a 150 int/4 crit/10 ap on crit hat I snagged for 600k :D allows me to fire off obliterate arcane orbs like they were tap the sourced with my crit rate. My average orb hits for 110k and crits for 350; I've had over half mil crits with arcane dynamo.
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106 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:53 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:49 AgentChaos wrote:
hey guys what sort of specs on gears should i be aiming for if i go blizzard/hydra build same for all builds: int, vit, ias, resists, crit, high dmg.
how does ias help arcane orb exactly?
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On June 06 2012 08:25 nface wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:53 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 06 2012 04:49 AgentChaos wrote:
hey guys what sort of specs on gears should i be aiming for if i go blizzard/hydra build same for all builds: int, vit, ias, resists, crit, high dmg. how does ias help arcane orb exactly?
makes you shoot them faster.
edit: as an example, i do siegebreaker runs. i can hit him with two arcane orbs before i have to run. with less ias, i would only be able to shoot one before i had to run. also, apparently increased ias makes venom hydra more beastly.
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You say 20 mill but it's more like 50 mill in worth and could sell for it that easily. You also probably have crit/int/int rings which are like 5 mill each.
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On June 06 2012 07:57 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:55 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 06 2012 07:32 Phael wrote:
That's like saying int and haste build off of each other because the more int you have, the more haste will add to damage, and vice versa. Which is totally true and yet irrelevant.
The value of balance is this:
You went all out on crit and crit damage, but didn't dump into int or haste:
Your damage multiplier is now 1x1x2x2 = 4
I went for balanced stats and so my multiplier is 1.5x1.5x1.5x1.5 = 5.0625
We both incremented the base stats by a total of 2. Your math is too simple and isn't appliable to anything at all with what we're talking about relative to the game design and item design. I don't think anyone is going pure crit. No one goes pure crit only with no int so why are you trying to argue it in that way? The fact is that most people gear out their character with 2 damage affixes per slot such as attack speed int, int crit, etc. Let's take int out of the picture because everything you get should and always will have some int on it. If not then the item is next to worthless in terms of gold cost and I refuse to believe anyone is that poor. On the flip side, very few people are so rich that they can afford every modifier (not to brag but I could, I just don't) and it would require a 2 hander for sure to make use of the attack speed modifiers. "balance" vs. "heavy in 2" per cost crit and crit damage + int will beat it out any day. You can do the math for yourself, but it's incredibly difficult for an attack speed crit/crit damage build to work out on all your items and give you an efficient DPS. what is the most common gear to get crit? gloves, shoulders, rings, amulets?
afaik you cant get crit on shoulders
doesn't let you search by that on the AH anyway
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That's the beauty of balanced stats good numbers without being too overpriced. I can show you my purchase logs when I'm home in 5 hours if you wish, but I do check the ah on my weaker slots after every siege breaker.
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You can show me your gear, but buying godly items on sale doesn't really make the point any different. I could refute my point in that I could get my gear for 1/5th of your price if I were patient enough. It's not that you're getting "balanced" stats. You're getting EVERY stat and high stats in every single one, not just mediocre like 5% crit gloves, etc. High crit, attack speed, int, vitality gloves? That's 5 mill. Trust me, I've sold over 130 million gold in items like these.
In any case, I was never disagreeing with that the highest potential damage comes from getting EVERYTHING (I even mentioned my plans to switch to your item build), but how could you argue that your items are just as expensive as going for only a few modifiers instead of all?
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Primary
Magic Missile: Boring, but good against bosses and big enemies you don't want to get near I guess.
can be interesting with the homing rune, and has best single target dos of the signature spells but I struggle to find use for it
Shock Pulse: Awful. Maybe the orb rune is good?
my favorite skill leveling up, this was the reason I played a wiz, couldn't stand the class while playing the demo until I got the explosive rune on this. I went pure dips and this skill with the mini Novas made things so easy. Used it up through level 45 or so.
Spectral Blade: Pretty good, but does put you in melee range.
only time I used this was when I went from hell to nightmare to play with friends and using the life's steal rune and life steal gear to tank. Couldn't find any other use unless u want the achievements
Electrocute: Not terrible, but not great either.
used this instead of shock pulse in groups with electrocute since it has longer range and I had a barb tank.
Secondary
Ray of Frost: You have to stand there and use it. Useless.
I liked this a lot, used it with shock pule for a long time, shock for aoe, this for single target dps.
Arcane Orb: Amazing. High damage, huge area, travels fast, fire and forget.
A lot of ppl love this but I never got too much out of it. I can see its use when you have to kite, but that shouldn't be till hell
Arcane Torrent: Doesn't go far and projectiles are really slow. Maybe the mines or cascade save it, but otherwise sucks.
Agree
Disintegrate: Same problem as Ray of Frost. If you're channeling, you're not moving or doing damage with a primary.
one of the best leveling spells in the game, the dps is incredible. This thing with the double wide rune makes leveling so much easier. If you can pump up dps high enough things will just melt
Defensive
Frost Nova: Not terrible, but as an escape mechanism, it's not too great either.
I used this as my only defensive till hell, it stuns bosses which is nice also since I used disintegrate I could freeze back up a little and fire again. Looking back probably not as good as I thought it was at the time, but with snap u can use a lot.
Diamond Skin: Best wizard skill?
I love it now, but didn't use it at lower levels so not sure how it stacked up
Slow Time: Might be good on some boss fights, haven't really used it much.
Agree
Teleport: You travel like 1/3rd of a screen and can't go through walls. Very disappointing compared to D2.
didn't care for this either, but there is a hidden effect where if you use it with fracture it breaks jail which makes it great for end game.
Force
Wave of Force: Awesome escape spell and does good damage.
Energy Twister: Super slow and very lame animation. Good for bosses maybe?
Hydra: Well, there are worse skills you could use in a boss fight... Blizzard somehow made hydra even worse than D2.
once you get poison hydras you will change your mind. Their pools stack so damage is insane!!! It's like having your own green pools
Meteor: Why would I cast this over Arcane Orb? It's expensive, slow, and doesn't do a ton of damage either.
looks cool, not worth it, ao is much better
Blizzard: Don't have it yet, but numbers look awful.
this is used for late game kiting, slow with blizz while hydra dots them up, not worth it for damage
Conjuration
Ice/Storm Armor: Useful if you disconnect in the middle of some enemies?
one exception, force armor with power of the storm, -3 mana on ray spells combined with a few regin skills or items makes them last forever. Probably worth it for the cheap arcane orb build too
Magic Weapon: 10% extra damage on your weapon is a big damage boost. It's a lot better than it looks.
such a good ability and the force orb ups it to 15, just beware it gets applied x2 on your char sheet so dps will show higher than it should
Familiar: I've never even tried this. Looks like a huge joke to me.
it is till you get the spark flint rune, it give a flat 12% increase almost as good as magic web and it does some damage. Run this, magic wep, glass cannon for sick, sick dps
Energy Armor: Don't have it yet, but it looks like it puts the other armor skills to shame.
for defense yes, other than using the one above to lowermana costs this is the way to go.
Mastery
Explosive Blast: Why would I ever use this over Wave of Force?
Mirror Image: PvP-only ability?
Archon: No clue, not 30.
very situational but there are some unique uses and it is a lot of fun to use.
Hope this helps fellow wizards
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:25 Avs wrote:
Diablo boss on Inferno tips:
1. Kite along the golden circle, along the outer edges. Maintain about 1 inch from the edge of the ring on the outside and he won't teleport. This removes one of the boss mechanics.
2. If he charges you because you fail to maintain 1 screens worth away (80 in game yards diagonally), you can still outrun his melee attack as long as you were moving away from him (12% movement speed). This means diamond skin is not necessary during this fight. Also removes another boss mechanic.
3. You can dps him with hydra on all quadrants of phase 1 and 3. Just note that hydra range is based on vicinity of the enemy to you, not the hydra until it starts attacking. Then you may move out of range anytime. This means during the top areas where you hydra to the south, your hydra will rarely be in range since you cant see much below your character. Most of your dps will occur when rotating from south to north. I rotate counter clockwise from the start. Also makes his fireball attacks counterable. (use wave of force if you cannot dodge in time).
4. You can use arcane orbs, tap source to put significant dps on diablo anytime during the rotation after dropping hydra. This helps you also time the hydra distance so that you deal damage during the rotation.
5. You can dps him do 50% before he will stun you. If you take too long he will simply start phase 2 at wherever your dps is, which will probably be at 60-70% especially if you are still learning the fight.
6. Teleport wormhole is very useful for phase 2 to put distance between the clones and you. Clones can oneshot you with pretty much any attack, but the arcane orb/hydra clone is most dangerous. Simply start teleporting as soon as diablo disappears to summon a clone and you should be able to kite them.
7. Kiting the clone is important so you do not die immediately. However, you need to kill the clone within 1 minute or less otherwise diablo enters the fight again. This means while you kite, use arcane orb tap source to dps the clone down. This should take about 10-20 seconds max as the clones are quite weak to hydra and orbs will take chunks off their hp.
8. You should keep wave of force handy just in case shadow diablo pops in on you during phase 2 after a clone kill. It is also handy to stop him from teleporting as it is harder to maintain a 1 inch distance from all walls and craters. Also due to the terrain, he can easily land a fireball shot as you are moving laterally in a straight line. Wave of force timed correctly will deflect the shot for some epic moments.
9. Throw in some arcane orbs to make phase 2 go faster as you get the practice down.
10. Phase 3 will be same as phase 1 like people have said. Lightning breath only occurs when you do not maintain a 80 yard distance (in game measurements) and has a max distance so you only need to outrun it. This is easy if you use the same strategies mentioned above. Simply dps him down with hydra and arcane orb kiting. Dont forget to switch into magic find gear for loots.
In the end this fight is only about avoiding his attacks and slowly dpsing him down.
Stats (you can have a lot less stats and still do the above)
40k dps
2.02 attackspeed
33k hp
12% movement speed
Skills that really help:
Wave of Force - Deflect his large nuke fireball. Stuns Diablo incase he teleports on you if you make a mistake.
Hydra Venom - Deal damage over time
Teleport Wormhole - Helps during phase 2 and or if you make a mistake
I would also suggest:
Sparkflint - more dps
Force weapon - more dps
Arcane Orb - more dps and kills clones fast
Skills you don't want or need
Blizzard - Low damage for this fight, also doesn't really prevent diablo from charging you if you get too close to him.
Mirror Images - Doesn't do anything significant
Holy fucking shit. I did not know that wave of force deflected the fireball. That was the only thing I changed in my build and I defeated him today LOL. Phase 2 is such a joke when you can just deflect the fireball.
My stats:
37.4k dps (glass cannon, no magic weapon)
33.6k HP
12% movement
1.43 atk/s
1689 int
5159 armor (after FA)
~500 res
Edit: The deflected fireball hurts him LOL.
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I might try boosting my critical chance and damage but right now I rather focus on the "essentials". Especially since I'm broke.
I do Intel/vitality/all Res in every gear part instead. Currently doing 1.53 aps, so not bad. I rather get good, efficient and reliable damage than hope for a critical. Now I'm not saying critical builds don't work, it's definitely the most expensive to build up on and I don't farm excessively... 
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On June 06 2012 09:48 trinxified wrote:I might try boosting my critical chance and damage but right now I rather focus on the "essentials". Especially since I'm broke. I do Intel/vitality/all Res in every gear part instead. Currently doing 1.53 aps, so not bad. I rather get good, efficient and reliable damage than hope for a critical. Now I'm not saying critical builds don't work, it's definitely the most expensive to build up on and I don't farm excessively...
Actually I'd say the "stack IAS on everything because it makes your DPS look really high" build is the most expensive because IAS stacking provides a lot of paper DPS for any gear set up.
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oh wow, knowing how to counter the teleport in the diablo encounter just makes everything so easy. now it's basically luck if the mirror image insta kills you or if you have the chance to teleport away.
thanks for the guide, i would have never found that out by myself. :D
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Is crit chance/crit damage included in the calculation of DPS on the character screen?
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EPT
