EPTI just can't wait for the QQ train to start...When they get to inferno.
How hard will the game be? - Page 14
| Forum Index > Diablo 3 |
|
Coolness53
United States668 Posts
I just can't wait for the QQ train to start...When they get to inferno. | ||
|
Whalecore
Norway1111 Posts
| ||
|
ibreakurface
United States664 Posts
*when I say easy I mean 80-90% of the gamer's can beat it. | ||
|
Coolness53
United States668 Posts
On May 03 2012 08:39 Whalecore wrote: Well the waller affix showed up even in beta, not sure if that was just for showing it off though. Search for it on YouTube and you'll see it! The point is that there going to have a lot of new abilities that we haven't seen yet. They are testing so many things to ensure the difficulty will keep people playing. Blizzard wants people to keep playing so they can get money from the RMAH. | ||
|
Coolness53
United States668 Posts
On May 03 2012 08:58 ibreakurface wrote: I don't think you can design a game to be relaxed in terms of strategy (not needing some sort of team comp) and still have it be hard. The only way you can make a game allow any team comp to win is to make it easier. I think best case the game will be very hard for shitty comps, and easy* for good team comps. *when I say easy I mean 80-90% of the gamer's can beat it. Your not thinking there going to make it very item dependent when you get to inferno. I expect people to gear up before they can get through it fully. I feel like build changing through out Inferno is going to have to happen a lot before people are able to clear it. | ||
|
ibreakurface
United States664 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:16 Coolness53 wrote: Your not thinking there going to make it very item dependent when you get to inferno. I expect people to gear up before they can get through it fully. I feel like build changing through out Inferno is going to have to happen a lot before people are able to clear it. True, but then you have the issue of "it's hard until good gear is available." I never played WoW, but i heard that when expansions came out the monsters were hard until higher level gear was easily available to everyone, in which case the game became a cake walk. I suppose if D3 properly makes the game so that you can't get, or at least can't use, gear that will make the your stage of the game too easy then it will be a great success. But I don't see D3 being all that difficult, knowing how games usually function in a few months people are going to find strong builds/comps that make the content easier than expected. | ||
|
skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:54 ibreakurface wrote: True, but then you have the issue of "it's hard until good gear is available." I never played WoW, but i heard that when expansions came out the monsters were hard until higher level gear was easily available to everyone, in which case the game became a cake walk. I suppose if D3 properly makes the game so that you can't get, or at least can't use, gear that will make the your stage of the game too easy then it will be a great success. But I don't see D3 being all that difficult, knowing how games usually function in a few months people are going to find strong builds/comps that make the content easier than expected. If you've never played WoW than how can you possibly understand? Gear is one thing but that doesn't make an encounter cakewalk unless you severely outlevel and outgear it. You still need to know the mechanics, have awareness, be able to react, and execute a rotation / strategy. The majority of the gaming population is incapable of doing so, evidently by WoW, Starcraft II, and basically every other online game out there. | ||
|
ibreakurface
United States664 Posts
On May 03 2012 10:11 skyR wrote: @ your first sentence: I'm paraphrasing another source. Would you like me to use MLA or APA? If you've never played WoW than how can you possibly understand? Gear is one thing but that doesn't make an encounter cakewalk unless you severely outlevel and outgear it. You still need to know the mechanics, have awareness, be able to react, and execute a rotation / strategy. The majority of the gaming population is incapable of doing so, evidently by WoW, Starcraft II, and basically every other online game out there. ... Let me put it to you this way: While playing a game that's new you don't know what stats are best, what gear, what strat, etc. so it's probably difficult. YAY! while playing a game that has been out for a while (like a month) the hardcore (top .05%) figure it out and spread the word through guides, playing the game with others, etc. Then you have a game like WoW, where everyone knows exactly how shit needs to be done, and it gets done. Not hard. Boo. To those who are about to say "wow then don't look at guides and just play the game": No. Have you ever seen someone in WoW, or any RPG, run around in high level play having no idea what their doing and enjoying it? No because they have a bunch of assholes yelling at him. | ||
|
Ahzz
Finland780 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:33 ibreakurface wrote: @ your first sentence: I'm paraphrasing another source. Would you like me to use MLA or APA? ... Let me put it to you this way: While playing a game that's new you don't know what stats are best, what gear, what strat, etc. so it's probably difficult. YAY! while playing a game that has been out for a while (like a month) the hardcore (top .05%) figure it out and spread the word through guides, playing the game with others, etc. Then you have a game like WoW, where everyone knows exactly how shit needs to be done, and it gets done. Not hard. Boo. To those who are about to say "wow then don't look at guides and just play the game": No. Have you ever seen someone in WoW, or any RPG, run around in high level play having no idea what their doing and enjoying it? No because they have a bunch of assholes yelling at him. You sounded all good and intelligent until you posted the bolded part, and the paragraph after that. We were exactly trying to say that this is not the case. Basically what SkyR said, and what is indeed true, is that while anyone can gear up in WoW, it does NOT guarantee that they down ANY raid bosses, especially in heroic. This is a very common misconception. while wow is a game where even the casuals can enjoy themselves, it is also a game where your damage output could be double or even triple that of a bad player with the same game. It's a game where you have to pay attention to a lot of things while doing top tier DPS to get through content. And THIS is something only 0.1% of the server are capable of doing after weeks or months of attempts. And trust me your casual joe or even your average SC2 gamer isn't able to do that. You can call out "wow is ez mode casual ezpz" all you want, but it's evident from your posts you never experienced the raid content and call out what other people say about 'dungeons' that are MEANT to be casual. What me and SkyR are both saying is: a) The argument of WoW is ezmode is extremely stupid because there is an equivalent to the heroic content: inferno mode, something probably only 0.1-1% are capable of doing, at least for many months. b) BECAUSE the heroic raid content is extremely challenging in WoW, something only 0.1% are capable of doing, why wouldn't it be EXACTLY THE SAME in D3? Yes, there is indeed not as much coordination needed, and you don't have to group up with 9 failures or anything. However, AS PROVEN BY WOW, only 0.1% are able to put out the necessary damage/heals/tanking WHILE doing all the mechanics, dodges, turns, etc done by the boss. I would have so many examples of outdpsing some raid buddy who is the same class, same build, but he has far better items. That person usually couldn't perform the more difficult content either, and overall just stopped the group from progressing because he wasn't capable of the amounts of multitasking necessary while dealing top dps. | ||
|
{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:33 ibreakurface wrote: @ your first sentence: I'm paraphrasing another source. Would you like me to use MLA or APA? ... Let me put it to you this way: While playing a game that's new you don't know what stats are best, what gear, what strat, etc. so it's probably difficult. YAY! while playing a game that has been out for a while (like a month) the hardcore (top .05%) figure it out and spread the word through guides, playing the game with others, etc. Then you have a game like WoW, where everyone knows exactly how shit needs to be done, and it gets done. Not hard. Boo. To those who are about to say "wow then don't look at guides and just play the game": No. Have you ever seen someone in WoW, or any RPG, run around in high level play having no idea what their doing and enjoying it? No because they have a bunch of assholes yelling at him. top guilds go into bosses without knowledge in wow (well prior to the ability popup from blizzard) on beta to get the infos and so u r wrong on that part, its all part of learning the encounter, for example, we didnt ve a guide for c-thun in classic~ but u r right about the others yelling at u when u fuck up in wow - doesnt mean they are assholes thou, in top guildes bad players are just not acceptable | ||
|
skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:33 ibreakurface wrote: @ your first sentence: I'm paraphrasing another source. Would you like me to use MLA or APA? ... Let me put it to you this way: While playing a game that's new you don't know what stats are best, what gear, what strat, etc. so it's probably difficult. YAY! while playing a game that has been out for a while (like a month) the hardcore (top .05%) figure it out and spread the word through guides, playing the game with others, etc. Then you have a game like WoW, where everyone knows exactly how shit needs to be done, and it gets done. Not hard. Boo. To those who are about to say "wow then don't look at guides and just play the game": No. Have you ever seen someone in WoW, or any RPG, run around in high level play having no idea what their doing and enjoying it? No because they have a bunch of assholes yelling at him. You clearly didn't read what I wrote. You can give someone the strategy, the gear, and the most optimized build for something but that doesn't mean they're capable of doing it. It's not only WoW, you can find examples of this nearly everywhere. If it works the way that you describe, we obviously would be living in a perfect world where everyone is godlike amazing. | ||
|
ibreakurface
United States664 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:49 Ahzz wrote: You sounded all good and intelligent until you posted the bolded part, and the paragraph after that. We were exactly trying to say that this is not the case. Basically what SkyR said, and what is indeed true, is that while anyone can gear up in WoW, it does NOT guarantee that they down ANY raid bosses, especially in heroic. This is a very common misconception. while wow is a game where even the casuals can enjoy themselves, it is also a game where your damage output could be double or even triple that of a bad player with the same game. It's a game where you have to pay attention to a lot of things while doing top tier DPS to get through content. And THIS is something only 0.1% of the server are capable of doing after weeks or months of attempts. And trust me your casual joe or even your average SC2 gamer isn't able to do that. You can call out "wow is ez mode casual ezpz" all you want, but it's evident from your posts you never experienced the raid content and call out what other people say about 'dungeons' that are MEANT to be casual. What me and SkyR are both saying is: a) The argument of WoW is ezmode is extremely stupid because there is an equivalent to the heroic content: inferno mode, something probably only 0.1-1% are capable of doing, at least for many months. b) BECAUSE the heroic raid content is extremely challenging in WoW, something only 0.1% are capable of doing, why wouldn't it be EXACTLY THE SAME in D3? Yes, there is indeed not as much coordination needed, and you don't have to group up with 9 failures or anything. However, AS PROVEN BY WOW, only 0.1% are able to put out the necessary damage/heals/tanking WHILE doing all the mechanics, dodges, turns, etc done by the boss. I would have so many examples of outdpsing some raid buddy who is the same class, same build, but he has far better items. That person usually couldn't perform the more difficult content either, and overall just stopped the group from progressing because he wasn't capable of the amounts of multitasking necessary while dealing top dps. Ah, I was under the impression that whoever played the most (the result being having the best items) was the best, because skill can't over come stats, and once you got decent items shit was a cake walk. My apologies. But this brings up a different point. WoW requires a lot of time to do end game content, I'm pretty sure on this. I heard some dungeons take more than 1 session to complete so people plan ahead when to be on. So my question is, will D3 still be extremely hard but still allow you to not have to play all day every day to be able to take part in the very hard content. If so, I have myself a dream RPG. I want the game to be casual in hours, but insane in actual difficulty (coordination, planning, mechanics, etc.). | ||
|
Mysticesper
United States1183 Posts
WoW does require a commitment to the game. In the two-three major guilds I was in (Vanilla-early Wrath), we had scheduled raids. You more or less had to be on during these hours. This was approximately 20 hours a week, 8-12 4-5 days a week. Obviously some people have issue with this, I did not, or I wouldn't have done it for the better portion of two years + early wrath. Gear does make encounters easier, sure, but not necessarily a cakewalk. Healers still need to focus, DPS still needs to DPS, etc. Gear, along with experience, allows you to clear an instance in 1 raid session as opposed to two or more, and certainly over the weeks / months spent learning it. There were gear checks in WoW. Some of these were resistance checks (dumb idea), and just straight up gear checks (these im okay with). Farming lol poison resist gear to get through Huhuran in AQ40 is silly. However, getting 30 or so people the best possible gear to beat patchwerk in 7 minutes is just fine. In short: Yes, diablo 3 has zero obligations associated with it. You can be casual with your hours, however you define that, and still see everything that everyone else does. It just takes longer, obviously. As you get gear, stuff becomes easier, it's natural progression. You do more damage, you take less damage, thus you increase your speed of clearing and your margin of error to withstand dying. We do not know how Inferno is tuned, but if Diablo II is any indication, farming bosses in the previous difficulty is probably required to get decent gear for the next difficulty. Normal -> nightmare is a huge step, just like nightmare -> hell. It's a fairly lineal scale with a giant jump in between each difficulty. If you think about a scale from 1-100.. 1-10 is normal, 20-40 is nightmare, 60-100 is hell. Act 5 normal and Act 1 Nightmare are worlds apart in terms of health / damage. The AI is about the same i think, I forgot though. That's the only advantage (if Act 1 mobs sit around doing nothing). Diablo III has improvements across the board, so yeah, there should be that noticable difficulty jump when beating Act 4 and starting Act 1 again. | ||
|
Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
On May 03 2012 15:26 Mysticesper wrote: The AI is about the same i think, I forgot though. That's the only advantage (if Act 1 mobs sit around doing nothing) Iirc, the developers mentioned just that in one of the Blizzcon 2011 panels. Difficulty / AI will increase with Nightmare/Hell/Inferno, meaning that those sluggish and braindead Act 1 monsters will suddenly prey on you and actually become a threat. | ||
|
Mysticesper
United States1183 Posts
I don't have any characters above normal on my laptop and this desktop. My old, dying desktop has all my legit and lol hacked characters. Unfortunately, that is 8 hours away, and I'm kind of finishing my semester right now. | ||
|
NeoLearner
Belgium1847 Posts
Does anyone actually know how much time the internal test team had to play the game? I imagine that their internal testing is at least in some way structured, with testers focussing on specific items at specific times (Skills, balance, UI, ...). Can't really imagine that they have internal testers just dicking around in the game, from start to finish, just to see if it can be done. Does anyone know, or remember an interview, where they discussed the alpha "friends and family" test? Did they get the same beta as we did? That Jay's grandmother was not able to inferno I can get behind. But can't imagine that none of their friends, if given sufficient access-time, would be unable to beat the game. Technically those people were not a part of the "internal" test team, so Jay's "no" would still be valid  | ||
|
{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
| ||
|
skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On May 03 2012 16:30 {ToT}ColmA wrote: It doesnt really matter if the internal test team beats it or not, at least that doesnt matter to me.. when i get the game i am gonna beat it and thats all to it, i doubt its gonna be impossible to beat and as wow teached me the times of hard content from blizzard is over, if u dont ve 24 others around u that can make u fail the encounter i dont see it being a super hard challenge....its just a hack and slay game after all No one except you and a few others like you said Inferno is impossible. Obviously Inferno will be beaten but the question is how long will it take? | ||
|
gugarutz
Austria110 Posts
On May 03 2012 16:24 NeoLearner wrote: So Jay said on Twitter that noone on the internal test team was able to beat Inferno. Let us assume for the sake of argument that this is really the case and not some baseless plug from marketing. my guess is that they didn't beat it legit, like playing through the game from start to finish (which i'm pretty sure they tried nontheless). they probably tested every boss on every difficulty separately and i'm pretty sure they gave themselfs enough high lvl items to beat it. no developer would release a game where they don't know every detail from each site which means also beating it.. jay didn't lie, but it wasn't the whole truth either imo | ||
|
Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On May 03 2012 18:11 gugarutz wrote: my guess is that they didn't beat it legit, like playing through the game from start to finish (which i'm pretty sure they tried nontheless). they probably tested every boss on every difficulty separately and i'm pretty sure they gave themselfs enough high lvl items to beat it. no developer would release a game where they don't know every detail from each site which means also beating it.. jay didn't lie, but it wasn't the whole truth either imo pretty sure when they released MC/BWL in WoW they never beat it, seeing as how it took like 6 months to kill Ragnaros from release... | ||
| ||
