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On May 03 2012 02:36 MrTortoise wrote:
I disagree that beating the gam eis beating the final boss on inferno
beating the game is beating the game on the hardest difficutly available to you at the start
So the answer is 100% unless they die of absolute fucking boredom on the way.
No offence but I don't really want to waste 16 hours of my life on something that is utterly trivial - ie normal difficulty. So right now i am looking at torchlight2 tbh or praying for a cs:go key. Really id rather spend those 16 hours on something equally boring like tidying the house, making a friend maybe just masterbate for as long as i can.
Because the game is soooo complex that a 10 min tutorial would run out of things to talk about.
If i wanted a story id read a book.
I want to have to think hard, react hard and make difficult decisions ... not as i did with d3 beta get so fucking bored i let my wife take over after 20 mins and watched her one hand her way to victory.
so is the game going to be too easy ... YES.
Otherwise youd just make a game like gauntlet with infinite levels and say look our game is soo hard noone has completed it.
Have fun reading the books, and cleaning the house.
Heh, i even bit the bait and gave you the attention you were dying for.
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On May 03 2012 02:40 ffreakk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 22:19 Ahzz wrote:On May 02 2012 19:21 []Phase[] wrote:
A scenario that I fear but is very plausible :
they simply added an 'easy difficulty in d2 standards' and moved all difficulties by 1. Normal is easy, nightmare is normal, hell is nightmare and inferno becomes hell difficulty of d2. Blizzard would so want to make their games as casual as possible. Inferno will ofc be totally different, due to the way the game works now (you will have all skills and can switch, which makes it ALOT easier). I still had a hard time with d2 solo hell, but it's not as impossible as some make it out to be, and inferno will be no different. a scenario I fear but is very plausible: They made inferno very hard indeed, to the point where the community begins to whine that it's too hard and must be dumbed down and made easier. Honestly, D2 is a REALLY EASY game... depending on the class a little bit though, if you're soloing everything. You might have to farm items and xp a little but that is beside the point. I have complete faith in blizzard that inferno isn't here to please the casuals. for casuals, there is nightmare and maybe hell too, but inferno is clearly meant to be that something they cannot do. Believe it or not, even WoW (gasp!) raid content wasn't there to completely please the casuals, because the Heroic content would slaughter the group if there was a single casual in it. (except 25 man maybe) They have received enough feedback on players wanting it to be hard that I fully expect inferno to take a similar stance, even with the best gear most people are incapable of downing all the content. Why is it so hard to believe if they even did it for WoW, which is apparently so casual that it makes you cringe? And before any of you make stupid assumptions about me, I got masters 1v1 in SC2 with 50-60 games played TOTAL. Just two days ago I got the achievement for 100 1v1's. Yahoo. I had 6 lvl 90's in D2:LoD, and downed most of WoW's raid content from the last two expansions excluding heroics. Just in case you thought of me as a WoW casual. Unlike WoW, though, Diablo 3 team aren't desperate to keep people (who already bought the game) playing Diablo 3, thus there's no real reason for them to bend their back too much for those complaints (and whine for nerfs). They repeatedly said that their philosophy for this game is Single-Player, and as such the difficulty will likely remain as is. Of course, they may go back on those words, but i would like to believe it until then 
Agree and disagree. The development team definitely has an incentive to keep people playing, as the longer people play, the more items they will buy/sell on the RMAH and the more money Blizzard will make from it. On the other hand, keeping the game hard and reliant on gear is another way to get people to utilize the RMAH and jack up prices.
And @ MrTortoise...wow. I don't know what to tell you except that if you think beating a game on the easiest difficulty, without experiencing 70% of the available items and the other three difficulties, is completion of a game, then I guess you're right. Oh and have fun with your masturbation marathon (even though it seems like your married? :-\)
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What's wrong with masturbating while married?
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On May 03 2012 03:00 NotSorry wrote:
What's wrong with masturbating while married?
I was more talking about the "use the 16 hour period I could be playing D3 to masturbate for as long as I can" clause of his well thought out argument, which really shouldn't be necessary in a healthy marriage, but that's waaaaaaay beside the point I was trying to make in response to his post.
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Sounds like your projecting personal morals on others. I consider my marriage to be rather healthy and I masturbate on average 5-7times a day, but I'm also a well experienced at gaming 1 handed so shouldn't cut into my game time too much.
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On May 02 2012 18:10 cjin wrote:
Id say less than 2% beat it on inferno by then end of the year. What I have seen, many of the ppl who will play so much they could beat it will try to do it on HC.
In wow, once you get enough gear, fights get alot easier. I remember when at the start of expansion you had to use cc to survive, and later on you just run in and aoe everything. In D3 it wont work since your primary defencive stat is your own skill to dodge projectiles/not stand in fire. No matter how much gear you get, it wont trivialise fights as much as it does in wow. Unless you are facing boss that does only one or maybe two type of elemental damage and get resistances for those (Like Diablo in D2), but then that gear wont work well against other bosses.
In the end thou I don't really care how many% gets it done and how fast, only if it makes me want to continue to bang my head against that brickwall just to find the stonewall behind it. And I don't mean thats bad.
I'd say 2% is awfully optimistic. If this thing is tuned to be impossible out of the gate (like many people expect), we'll be lucky to see 0.5% of the playerbase beat inferno in year 1. Also, you have to remember how many people will be playing D3. It could easily pass the 5 million worldwide mark in 1 year, meaning 2% would be 100,000, and 0.5% would be 25,000.
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On May 03 2012 03:18 NotSorry wrote:
Sounds like your projecting personal morals on others. I consider my marriage to be rather healthy and I masturbate on average 5-7times a day, but I'm also a well experienced at gaming 1 handed so shouldn't cut into my game time too much.
Wow, the world really has all kinds of people. I guess you do learn something new every day
@Zasz
Hmm.. I know every1 keeps talking about the RMAH and everything, but sometimes i wonder. Is it really that those developers are more concerned about making money than improving their game. As an aspiring game developer, i really hope for this to not be the case, since it ll really suck if my future colleagues all think this way. Those guys (D3 development team) looked/felt real passionate about developing this into a good game too =/
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On May 03 2012 03:22 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 18:10 cjin wrote:
Id say less than 2% beat it on inferno by then end of the year. What I have seen, many of the ppl who will play so much they could beat it will try to do it on HC.
In wow, once you get enough gear, fights get alot easier. I remember when at the start of expansion you had to use cc to survive, and later on you just run in and aoe everything. In D3 it wont work since your primary defencive stat is your own skill to dodge projectiles/not stand in fire. No matter how much gear you get, it wont trivialise fights as much as it does in wow. Unless you are facing boss that does only one or maybe two type of elemental damage and get resistances for those (Like Diablo in D2), but then that gear wont work well against other bosses.
In the end thou I don't really care how many% gets it done and how fast, only if it makes me want to continue to bang my head against that brickwall just to find the stonewall behind it. And I don't mean thats bad. I'd say 2% is awfully optimistic. If this thing is tuned to be impossible out of the gate (like many people expect), we'll be lucky to see 0.5% of the playerbase beat inferno in year 1. Also, you have to remember how many people will be playing D3. It could easily pass the 5 million worldwide mark in 1 year, meaning 2% would be 100,000, and 0.5% would be 25,000.
The question in the OP said to exclude people who will play for a short time and drop the game, which will be the vast majority as with all games of this genre. So since you're only including those that stick with it the rate is going to be much higher.
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On May 03 2012 02:36 MrTortoise wrote:
beating the game is beating the game on the hardest difficutly available to you at the start
For 99% of console games, sure. For diablo? Not even close. Act 1 Nightmare mode is basically act5/level 5.
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On May 03 2012 03:23 ffreakk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 03:18 NotSorry wrote:
Sounds like your projecting personal morals on others. I consider my marriage to be rather healthy and I masturbate on average 5-7times a day, but I'm also a well experienced at gaming 1 handed so shouldn't cut into my game time too much. Wow, the world really has all kinds of people. I guess you do learn something new every day @Zasz Hmm.. I know every1 keeps talking about the RMAH and everything, but sometimes i wonder. Is it really that those developers are more concerned about making money than improving their game. As an aspiring game developer, i really hope for this to not be the case, since it ll really suck if my future colleagues all think this way. Those guys (D3 development team) looked/felt real passionate about developing this into a good game too =/
No, no I'm not saying that all they care about is the payoff. I'm just saying that aside from being passionate about their game (admirable as that is), there are monetary incentives for them to keep people playing by making the game hard enough that A) people feel challenged and engaged and B) people feel the need to pick up good items off the RMAH.
Remember that ultimately Acti-Blizzard is pulling the strings here. The D3 development team can be as passionate they like about making their game the best there is, but if their budget gets cut back because they're not churning out the dollars, it doesn't help anyone. I feel like this is win-win in that the most challenging and engaging game will make Blizzard the most money.
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Part of me really thinks that they're just over-hyping how hard inferno will actually be, but hopefully I'm wrong.
I voted mediocre but I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up somewhere in the percentages of "Easy".
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On May 03 2012 04:51 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Part of me really thinks that they're just over-hyping how hard inferno will actually be, but hopefully I'm wrong.
I voted mediocre but I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up somewhere in the percentages of "Easy".
Pretty much sums up how I feel. I think it will be easy as hell, but hoping I'm wrong and it's soul raping hard because I want a real challenge.
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On May 02 2012 14:34 Ahzz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:23 ibreakurface wrote:
I just watched that whole youtube video, and that second half totally looked like a "WoW players look! a more casual* game for you!"
*STAY BACK D3'rs! You wouldn't know, but nearly all of WoW's raid content far surpasses anything in D2 with it's difficulty.
I feel like MMORPG's and RPG's in general, where it's all about leveling up and out gearing your counterparts, have caused the meaning of the term "difficulty" has become skewed. WoW is difficult in that you need to spend a lot of time on it to get somewhere. So yes, if something is defined as difficult by how much time it takes to get somewhere, then WoW is pretty damn difficult compared to many games.
Now if we are talking about difficulty in strategy, and technique, then WoW is probably only marginally harder than other RPG's, if at all.
The only reason WoW is considered "hardcore" is because it takes months (if you play hours a day, every day) to even catch up to higher tier players in level and gear.
Regardless, I agree that diablo will be relatively "easy" (less of a grind) because that's what they are shooting for. They are targeting people who want to play an RPG, but don't want to spend 20hrs+ a week to make progress like in WoW.
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On May 03 2012 05:28 ibreakurface wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 14:34 Ahzz wrote:On May 02 2012 06:23 ibreakurface wrote:
I just watched that whole youtube video, and that second half totally looked like a "WoW players look! a more casual* game for you!"
*STAY BACK D3'rs! You wouldn't know, but nearly all of WoW's raid content far surpasses anything in D2 with it's difficulty. I feel like MMORPG's and RPG's in general, where it's all about leveling up and out gearing your counterparts, have caused the meaning of the term "difficulty" has become skewed. WoW is difficult in that you need to spend a lot of time on it to get somewhere. So yes, if something is defined as difficult by how much time it takes to get somewhere, then WoW is pretty damn difficult compared to many games. Now if we are talking about difficulty in strategy, and technique, then WoW is probably only marginally harder than other RPG's, if at all. The only reason WoW is considered "hardcore" is because it takes months (if you play hours a day, every day) to even catch up to higher tier players in level and gear. Regardless, I agree that diablo will be relatively "easy" (less of a grind) because that's what they are shooting for. They are targeting people who want to play an RPG, but don't want to spend 20hrs+ a week to make progress like in WoW.
I really doubt D3 will be less grindy. Even though you probably won't need the absolute highest tier gear to beat the content, you'll still need months worth of playing to "max out" your charater.
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They won't make the game too hard, because of all these terrible WoW-Casuals. They can't make Inferno that hard that you can it only play with one build and perfect stats.
I feel they turned the difficulty back down before the Open Beta started.
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[QUOTE]On May 03 2012 05:36 m00nchile wrote:
[QUOTE]On May 03 2012 05:28 ibreakurface wrote:
[QUOTE]On May 02 2012 14:34 Ahzz wrote:
[QUOTE]On May 02 2012 06:23 ibreakurface wrote:
I just watched that whole youtube video, and that second half totally looked like a "WoW players look! a more casual* game for you!"
*STAY BACK D3'rs![/QUOTE]
You wouldn't know, but nearly all of WoW's raid content far surpasses anything in D2 with it's difficulty.[/QUOTE]
I feel like MMORPG's and RPG's in general, where it's all about leveling up and out gearing your counterparts, have caused the meaning of the term "difficulty" has become skewed. WoW is difficult in that you need to spend a lot of time on it to get somewhere. So yes, if something is defined as difficult by how much time it takes to get somewhere, then WoW is pretty damn difficult compared to many games.
[/QUOTE]
WOW is a joke compared to Lineage 2 where you had to grind few hours a day with good gear for almost a year to get max level pre -nerf - like prelude or HB. But Korean MMOs are way harder then easy mode that WOW is.
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As much as I would love to vote that it will be extremely hard and not many people will beat it...I had to vote casual. I'm pretty sure one of the following 3 situations is going to occur.
A) The game isn't that hard right now and people will just be able to beat.
B) The game is hard right now, only a portion of the population will beat it, Inferno will be nerfed and then everyone beats it.
C) The game is hard right now, only a portion of the population will beat it for a while, as really good items from Inferno become more readily available those people who were unable to beat it with the items they just got from playing through Hell difficulty will be able to beat it with their newly bought Inferno items.
Edit: Ok I guess I just add a little note onto this.. I voted casual, meaning 80% - 100%, but when I did that I was thinking 80 - 100% of the people who actually try to beat the game. I'm not counting the people who just play through normal and say they beat the game/stop playing, or the people who play but have no actual desire to be beat Inferno.
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On May 03 2012 06:29 Chewbacca. wrote:
As much as I would love to vote that it will be extremely hard and not many people will beat it...I had to vote casual. I'm pretty sure one of the following 3 situations is going to occur.
A) The game isn't that hard right now and people will just be able to beat.
B) The game is hard right now, only a portion of the population will beat it, Inferno will be nerfed and then everyone beats it.
C) The game is hard right now, only a portion of the population will beat it for a while, as really good items from Inferno become more readily available those people who were unable to beat it with the items they just got from playing through Hell difficulty will be able to beat it with their newly bought Inferno items.
Edit: Ok I guess I just add a little note onto this.. I voted casual, meaning 80% - 100%, but when I did that I was thinking 80 - 100% of the people who actually try to beat the game. I'm not counting the people who just play through normal and say they beat the game/stop playing, or the people who play but have no actual desire to be beat Inferno.
I think that due to the repetitive nature of Diablo's harder difficulties, they probably won't nerf the hardest difficulty setting. The reason they do that in WoW is so all that work they did with new art and fights gets seeen by more than 1% of the games population. But back to Diablo 3, the harder difficulties are going to be more about things that are simple to code in, added resistances, more health, harder hits. All these things take much less time than designing totally new content to show only the top 1%. So ultimately I don't know why they would nerf the game.
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On May 03 2012 06:28 Agarvaen wrote:
WOW is a joke compared to Lineage 2 where you had to grind few hours a day with good gear for almost a year to get max level pre -nerf - like prelude or HB. But Korean MMOs are way harder then easy mode that WOW is.
After this I'm probably going to be done with this thread since the same comments of 'its going to be so casual omg' pop up without reading or adding anything to the discussion going on the thread, but I'll make something clear: Gearing up in wow is not the same as in downing the raid content. Yes, absolutely anyone can get GOOD gear in wow if they simply spend time on it, doing weekly rewards etc. Yes, they gain it at a limited speed and slowly, but even casuals will get good gear. That was never my point though, and funnily people seem to jump at it after ONE person misinterpreted my message.
I never said 'gear up' I said 'raid content'. Besides, I didn't even compare it to other MMO's, though I would uneducately argue that wow heroics are more demanding than nearly everything in other MMO's, based on playing a few other MMO's in my time.
No, it's not starcraft 2. But it is way more challenging than D2 ever was. Mind you, I'm talking about heroic content. And the videos seen of raid gameplay don't do the game very much justice, because doing top tier DPS or healing or tanking is far more demanding while doing everything in the fight you are supposed to than what it seems. And it is something maybe only 0.1% of the servers playerbase are capable of doing after WEEKS of coordination, planning, and numerous attempts.
This discussion isn't about MMO's or WoW though, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents because people tend to jump on the common 'wow is for casuals' bandwagon without ever experiencing it for themselves. Funnily, that assumption is usually made after spending the oh so demanding 'leveling up' process, instead of heroic raid content. And like I said before in this thread I believe, I got masters 1v1 in SC2 with 60 games played total. woah?
And I seriously doubt they'd make inferno so casual after hyping it up so much. And it will not be. Anything up to then might be, since all you need to do in hell is level up, and gear up, so anyone will probably be able to do it (dunno about diablo/azmodan though), but inferno is clearly a mode where you cant outlevel your enemies. At this point, nothing is going to be changed since the game has already been sent out to the world probably. So painting horror images of how easy it's going to be aint going to help either.
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u know the person is clueless when he thinks wow is about leveling up. probably not worth trying to explain it to someone so simpleminded
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EPT
