EPT
KeSPA and Blizzard near an agreement. - Page 8
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
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NHY
1013 Posts
On May 10 2011 05:06 Milkis wrote: DES, on April 20th reported from an "Blizzard insider" that Blizzard had contacted KeSPA and asked KeSPA to mediate Intellectual Rights negotiations. Essentially: the crux was that Blizzard Korea does not have the manpower to deal with this situation anymore -- since Riot Games opened up a Korean branch and absorbed many of the core Blizzard Korea members. Essentially, according to DES, Blizzard Korea is in a pinch and needs the broadcasting stations more than ever. The article, for what its worth, says "It is being reported that high ranking Blizzard Korea member has asked a company that sits in KeSPA's board of directors to mediate ..." Also, League of Legends and Riot Games is mentioned as a competitor to SC2 in the article. Shortage of manpower is nowhere mentioned in the entire article, even in passing. Edit: Also "Blizzard contacts KeSPA to mediate between OGN/MBC" is wrong. Blizzard contacted a company that sits in KeSPA's board of directors, my guess is OGN/MBC, to mediate between KeSPA. | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
On May 10 2011 16:05 NHY wrote: The article, for what its worth, says "It is being reported that high ranking Blizzard Korea member has asked a company that sits in KeSPA's board of directors to mediate ..." Also, League of Legends and Riot Games is mentioned as a competitor to SC2 in the article. Shortage of manpower is nowhere mentioned in the entire article, even in passing. The last line was a more general statement, rather than something specific related to the lack of manpower or just replacements. Secondly, I interpreted "high ranking Blizzard Korea member" as Blizzard as he would likely need approval from the company to pull off anything like that. KeSPA is made up of organizations so I didn't think it would be too much of a stretch. I also edited the OP title to account for uncertainty | ||
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NHY
1013 Posts
On May 10 2011 16:25 Milkis wrote: The last line was a more general statement, rather than something specific related to the lack of manpower or just replacements. Secondly, I interpreted "high ranking Blizzard Korea member" as Blizzard as he would likely need approval from the company to pull off anything like that. KeSPA is made up of organizations so I didn't think it would be too much of a stretch. I also edited the OP title to account for uncertainty High ranking bit I don't mind as much. But KeSPA's board of directors is made up of companies with different motives so I think it is important to make that distinction. Besides, Blizzard said they would never negotiate directly with KeSPA again so if they asked KeSPA directly, that would be huge. Edit: grammer Edit: As I added in above post, it would also be strange to ask KeSPA to mediate with KeSPA. | ||
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BreakerD
United States159 Posts
As for people saying Kespa might get involved in sc2 I highly doubt that. Creating a sc2 PL is too much work and it involves money. The only corporation I see strong enough to sponsor a team in sc2 are skt, kt, and cj (maybe MBC but they gave up light to woojin so who knows). Even sponsor of GSL doesnt have the money to create a Proleague or it would've been done. | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On May 10 2011 16:32 NHY wrote: High ranking bit I don't mind as much. But KeSPA's board of directors is made up of companies with different motives so I think it is important to make that distinction. Besides, Blizzard said they would never negotiate directly with KeSPA again so if they asked KeSPA directly, that would be huge. Edit: grammer Edit: As I added in above post, it would also be strange to ask KeSPA to mediate with KeSPA. That's a fair point. I'll edit it accordingly -- although KeSPA executive office is different from OGN/MBC  | ||
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LoliKuma
United States237 Posts
Thank you very much Milkis! | ||
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FarbrorAbavna
Sweden4856 Posts
Outside of korea though it's already happening which is why I find superdanielmans twitter somewhat amusing but on the other hand maybe KESPA is a god like organisation. Maybe they can turn sc2 into the next soccer :D | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On May 10 2011 15:58 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I would prefer both last as long as they possibly can. Brood War has a legacy and a lot of investments, but I have to say SC2 was better designed with eSports in mind from the start and is more accommodating from that perspective. Each could currently learn something from the other. BW can't benefit from SC2 in any way though. It's a closed source game being deliberately neglected in favour of the sequel. I disagree that SC2 is even better designed for eSports at all. Just because they keep mentioning it's for eSports doesn't mean it's actually appropriate for it... after all they are trying to balance the game for all skill levels, that immediately is at odds with the highest level of competitive. I'd say their total lack of improvement upon Bnet 2.0 shows their intentions for eSports perfectly. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On May 10 2011 13:19 jayGroove wrote: After I read this thread, I checked Korean article from TIG and it seems that some korean presses wrote the article based on unofficial source, so called "rumor". And everybody is saying about what is not actually happening. The actual fact is forth court "Defense date" is delayed. After that, none of these things is just "rumor". Please, let's discuss about this after when Blizzard hold a press conference and finally made an IP agreement with Kespa. Once again, KeSPA and Blizzard HAVE NOT YET reach an agreement. It's just guessing based on unofficial source. Thank you. | ||
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Buffy
Sweden665 Posts
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On May 10 2011 17:50 infinity2k9 wrote: BW can't benefit from SC2 in any way though. It's a closed source game being deliberately neglected in favour of the sequel. I disagree that SC2 is even better designed for eSports at all. Just because they keep mentioning it's for eSports doesn't mean it's actually appropriate for it... after all they are trying to balance the game for all skill levels, that immediately is at odds with the highest level of competitive. I'd say their total lack of improvement upon Bnet 2.0 shows their intentions for eSports perfectly. Perhaps I was a bit too general. I didn't mean to get into any kind of balance discussion as that would derail the thread and it has many subtle facets that need explicating before a true discussion could be had. By designed with eSports in mind, I mean that visual it is more appealing to a broader audience, support from Blizzard for it has been organized far better then when SC was developed and released and just the general UI is more oriented towards streamlining the competitive experience. I did play Brood War off and on since 2002ish onward, and until 3rd party servers organized themselves and modified the UI slightly to support competitive gaming in a more robust manner, Starcraft was more of a game with multiplayer. And the multiplayer did not emphasize the competitive aspect so much as simply the fact that you could play against another person. SC2 further developed things like the ladder and matchmaker as well as supported news tickers for competitve events, etc. I don't think you can honestly say something like BW/KeSPA could not benefit in any way from lessons and developments made by SC2/Blizz/Gretech and keep a straight face. | ||
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aupstar
Australia912 Posts
On May 10 2011 15:45 meegrean wrote: May Brood War outlast Starcraft 2 Yes indeedy.. Like war3 and C&C and every other RTS before it.. | ||
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PineappleLumpsToss
New Zealand2434 Posts
It's been a long wait, but I'm glad to see that common-sense has prevailed. Happy day! | ||
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aupstar
Australia912 Posts
On May 10 2011 18:14 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Perhaps I was a bit too general. I didn't mean to get into any kind of balance discussion as that would derail the thread and it has many subtle facets that need explicating before a true discussion could be had. By designed with eSports in mind, I mean that visual it is more appealing to a broader audience, support from Blizzard for it has been organized far better then when SC was developed and released and just the general UI is more oriented towards streamlining the competitive experience. I did play Brood War off and on since 2002ish onward, and until 3rd party servers organized themselves and modified the UI slightly to support competitive gaming in a more robust manner, Starcraft was more of a game with multiplayer. And the multiplayer did not emphasize the competitive aspect so much as simply the fact that you could play against another person. SC2 further developed things like the ladder and matchmaker as well as supported news tickers for competitve events, etc. I don't think you can honestly say something like BW/KeSPA could not benefit in any way from lessons and developments made by SC2/Blizz/Gretech and keep a straight face. BW/KeSPA cannot benefit from any lessons on the developments made by SC2/Blizz as it's actually SC2/Blizz that has taken so much from Kespa/BW. The whole format, the cubicles, the proleague style teams..everything.. There was a ladder for BW back then and there is still one now. BW has LAN..and don't you forget it..It is what allowed competitive gaming to occur in Cyber Cafe and Tournaments. Sure the community chipped in a lot to improve the experience with servers/anti hacks/maps when blizzard started neglecting it and moved on to War3 and other inferior projects (lol WoW). But is that really possible with sc2?.....nO! BW will survive because the viewing experience is magic and not boring like sc2. That is fact and will not change. Better luck next time Blizzard, keep trying because even if sc2 is on tv, it won't change how boring it is to watch. | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On May 10 2011 15:45 meegrean wrote: May Brood War outlast Starcraft 2 Is there even any doubt? All of my friends that watches BW still watch them religiously. None of them, or even other people who dont watch BW, watch SC2 anymore. 's far as im concerned, BW already outlived SC2 by several months :p.. | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On May 10 2011 18:42 aupstar wrote: BW/KeSPA cannot benefit from any lessons on the developments made by SC2/Blizz as it's actually SC2/Blizz that has taken so much from Kespa/BW. The whole format, the cubicles, the proleague style teams..everything.. There was a ladder for BW back then and there is still one now. BW has LAN..and don't you forget it..It is what allowed competitive gaming to occur in Cyber Cafe and Tournaments. Sure the community chipped in a lot to improve the experience with servers/anti hacks/maps when blizzard started neglecting it and moved on to War3 and other inferior projects (lol WoW). But is that really possible with sc2?.....nO! BW will survive because the viewing experience is magic and not boring like sc2. That is fact and will not change. Better luck next time Blizzard, keep trying because even if sc2 is on tv, it won't change how boring it is to watch. I think your being a bit jaded in favor of BW. I do not deny the legacy and competition of BW, but statements like "the viewing experience is magic and not boring like sc2" are simply empty opinion and really don't contribute to your argument. KeSPA will forever hold an iron grip on the Korean BW scene, but there is simply more money in SC2. So my argument was that is could not operate in the same manner (iron grip over teams, etc.) moving forward. Looking at BW, they do not really cater to anyone outside Korea. Also, for a person who knows nothing about the two games SC2 would have a more localized and refined appearance when compared to BW. (GSL, localizing in China, English speaking, etc.) With the money flowing towards SC2, the pool of new BW talent will drop off since more money will be available in SC2. (Already all but gone outside Korea). KeSPA and BW do have lessons they need to learn if you want it to outlast SC2. They need to localize broadcast content globally. They need to reinvigorate interest in BW outside Korea. They need to increase tournament frequency and prize pools to provide an rival option for competitive gaming and earn potential for Starcraft gamers deciding between BW and SC2. And IMO, they need someway to condense and convey the legacy and history behind BW for new fans to appreciate without having watch 12 years of replays. Im sure you could pull other lessons. | ||
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aupstar
Australia912 Posts
On May 10 2011 20:13 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I think your being a bit jaded in favor of BW. I do not deny the legacy and competition of BW, but statements like "the viewing experience is magic and not boring like sc2" are simply empty opinion and really don't contribute to your argument. KeSPA will forever hold an iron grip on the Korean BW scene, but there is simply more money in SC2. So my argument was that is could not operate in the same manner (iron grip over teams, etc.) moving forward. Looking at BW, they do not really cater to anyone outside Korea. Also, for a person who knows nothing about the two games SC2 would have a more localized and refined appearance when compared to BW. (GSL, localizing in China, English speaking, etc.) With the money flowing towards SC2, the pool of new BW talent will drop off since more money will be available in SC2. (Already all but gone outside Korea). KeSPA and BW do have lessons they need to learn if you want it to outlast SC2. They need to localize broadcast content globally. They need to reinvigorate interest in BW outside Korea. They need to increase tournament frequency and prize pools to provide an rival option for competitive gaming and earn potential for Starcraft gamers deciding between BW and SC2. And IMO, they need someway to condense and convey the legacy and history behind BW for new fans to appreciate without having watch 12 years of replays. Im sure you could pull other lessons. Yes I've heard it all before..all the talented bw players will go to sc2 dazzled by all their moneyz...LOL As you can see, bw talent is alive and kicking and going strong..such empty arguments will not work to aid your cause especially since your prize pools are dropping. BW scene is a truely local phenomenon. Nowhere else in the world is starcraft so competitive as to even come close to even half the skill of any pro gamer in Korea. This is why it's so brilliant/elegant to watch..amazing micro/macro that is not reproducible by anyone else in the world (unlike sc2 where any noob can beat a pro). Korea doesn't need the world, they are satisfied without it. Being a spectator, it makes no difference to me as all the best gamers are korean/playing in korea. And btw, those that say Kespa < Blizzard, know nothing about the two games. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On May 10 2011 18:14 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Perhaps I was a bit too general. I didn't mean to get into any kind of balance discussion as that would derail the thread and it has many subtle facets that need explicating before a true discussion could be had. By designed with eSports in mind, I mean that visual it is more appealing to a broader audience, support from Blizzard for it has been organized far better then when SC was developed and released and just the general UI is more oriented towards streamlining the competitive experience. I did play Brood War off and on since 2002ish onward, and until 3rd party servers organized themselves and modified the UI slightly to support competitive gaming in a more robust manner, Starcraft was more of a game with multiplayer. And the multiplayer did not emphasize the competitive aspect so much as simply the fact that you could play against another person. SC2 further developed things like the ladder and matchmaker as well as supported news tickers for competitve events, etc. I don't think you can honestly say something like BW/KeSPA could not benefit in any way from lessons and developments made by SC2/Blizz/Gretech and keep a straight face. What lessons can they benefit from then? I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. KeSPA isn't a game developer, they can't modify the game in any way, so that means you're just trying to imply they can learn from the eSports side of things (yet you talk about ladder and matchmaking and the visuals, which is unrelated to KeSPA). In terms of eSports Gretech is simply taking its cue 100% from KeSPA, and Blizzard is simply paying lip service to eSports now and then and not actually making good on promises to improve it. So really no KeSPA can't learn anything from SC2, nothing you say they even have control of in BW. By the way the UI is not streamlined for competitive experience, it's streamlined for beginners and non-competitive players. It's totally the opposite. There's no point in getting into a UI debate if it's good or bad changes but it's not in any way related to competitive play, i'm not sure how you can try and imply this. It makes it easier to be to competitive sure, but that's a total matter of opinion if it's good or bad. On May 10 2011 15:58 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: KeSPA and BW do have lessons they need to learn if you want it to outlast SC2. They need to localize broadcast content globally. They need to reinvigorate interest in BW outside Korea. They need to increase tournament frequency and prize pools to provide an rival option for competitive gaming and earn potential for Starcraft gamers deciding between BW and SC2. And IMO, they need someway to condense and convey the legacy and history behind BW for new fans to appreciate without having watch 12 years of replays. Im sure you could pull other lessons. Seriously what are you even talking about. Point by point here: - KeSPA, the KOREAN ESPORTS association, doesn't have to do anything globally. They organize tournaments for BW which has no global appeal, so it would be a terrible decision to do anything globally. They've allowed restreams of their content and hosted an OSL in China i think that's about as globally appealing as it's going to get. BW isn't going to magically gain interest outside of Korea again. You know this so i don't know why you are even saying it. This applies to both the first and second point. - The prize pools are big enough already because BW players have decent salaries at the A-team level. Players DO NOT live off prize pools, that is precisely what a stable eSports scene isn't suppose to have. Why would you force players to win to be able to live from playing the game? Incase you hadn't noticed only a single (bad) A-team player switched to SC2, and 1 other switched then came back. So clearly this point is invalid in the first place. If anything it's SC2 which needs to learn this, but as there's no central organization to try and push in that direction anyway other than Blizzard. Besides anyone who follows BW is aware that there's no room for another tournament. Players already suffer in ability trying to practice being in 2/3 events. And you can't raise the frequency because they are already running basically all the time.. so that doesn't make sense either. - Your last point is not a lesson from SC2 at all. But let's just entertain the notion anyway; Already old games are broadcast regularly on OGN/MBC, and i don't think there's many fans who are not aware of the history. If you're implying educating people outside of Korea about the history, well there was to actually be interest in the game first for people to do that. Of course some kind of english content or show that showed things from the past would be nice, but is there any point? And why would that be a lesson from SC2? I don't see the SC2 scene making any effort at all to convey any history of Starcraft. To sum it up i don't think you are up to date with the BW scene. In terms of just Korea, BW is healthy. They don't need to change to survive like you're trying to imply, not yet anyway. There's no mass exodus of fans, sponsors or players to SC2 which would necessitate the need to change. Personally i get the feeling the negative attitude of some in this thread is just annoyed people who wish the resources BW has was infact diverted to SC2. Well sorry it's not happening. | ||
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