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On May 10 2011 12:53 Milkis wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=221362"Q: On SC2, are you starting to see a ramp up in interest in Korea as more of the professional players shift toward the newer version, give us an update on the professional market there. Michael Morhaime: The Korean E-Sports ... our partner, GOMTV, is running GSL, it continues to be very popular ... but we are seeing that SC1 has maintained popularity, and so the transition to SC2 has been slower than we anticipated." Haha.
Oh Morhaime...
Hopefully, Blizzard's GG out of arm-twisting the Korean scene will allow time for the strained relationships to start mending themselves.
Hopefully, these wounds will heal, and we may someday be blessed with a Blizzard-sponsored BW league or an OGN-broadcasted SC2 league. I can only hope for a brighter future after all the mud-slinging that has been going on from both sides up until now.
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On May 11 2011 05:33 ShootingStars wrote:
SC2 was made IN MIND that it would replace SCBW, so it will come with time. SC2 has 2 more expansions anyways :D
What was the point of that? Nuclear plants were made IN MIND that they would replace regular power plants, but we don't see everyone switching over, due to certain concerns. Horrible analogy I know, but meh whatever works.
Thanks Milkis for bringing us the updates of this case for almost a year now.
BW broadcasts with the Blizzard logo is going to be weird.
Personally I hope KeSPA doesn't waste their resources on SC2, Blizzard didn't want their help the first time lol, doubt their map expertise will fix any of the current issues anyway. Wonder how many people in Korea would watch SC2 on OGN/MBC, how many viewers is it getting on that other channel?
If only KeSPA could see the support they have received from the foreign BW fans throughout the years and through this ordeal. I want OGN/MBC on my TV! ><
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On May 11 2011 07:09 IntoTheEmo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 05:33 ShootingStars wrote:
SC2 was made IN MIND that it would replace SCBW, so it will come with time. SC2 has 2 more expansions anyways :D What was the point of that? Nuclear plants were made IN MIND that they would replace regular power plants, but we don't see everyone switching over, due to certain concerns. Horrible analogy I know, but meh whatever works.
If they can survive the onslaught brought about by Browder, they may just succeed in becoming a good e-sport even with 2 expansion, but it seems to me that after the 2nd expansion is released, they will be announcing that SC3:Xel'Naga. And you know what that means for casual and wannabe pros??
Casual: *Fuck yes! A new game! During SC2, I couldn own those noobs who were being payed by sponsors but with this .. oh what joy!
Wannabe pros: *Fuck yes! A new game! During SC2, I almost own those noobs who were being payed by sponsors but with this .. oh what joy!
SC2 Fanboys(much like how BW fanboys): Fuck your 1 click macro to 200/200! Blizzard **** you! Easy game shit!
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On May 11 2011 02:28 Suisen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 01:17 syllogism wrote:
So, like I said in the previous thread, Blizzard gets pretty much what they wanted, except precedent, but I can't imagine other similar suits in foreseeable future so that doesn't matter much As of right now, they only get logos and the annoyance that there is a 'pirate' league they haven't been able to shut down. They don't get ownership of the players, veto rights, audit rights, ownership over esports content, etc. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=123275http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=173841Blizzard went to court. Blizzard made arguments and claims they judges didn't understand and Blizzard couldn't explain. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188322In the mean time SC2, the reason for the whole IP rights issue, is not popular in S Korea. The only major league in Korea is Blizzard funded. All the other big ones are outside of S Korea. S Korean players are even playing in foreigner leagues. There is no longer a reason for Blizzard to market SC2 in S Korea through Gomtv. So Blizzard gave up. Both how events unfolded and the few details that leaked out so far suggest this. There is no cause for Kespa to suddenly change their position. SC BW was doing extremely well considering the SC2 competition. What 10 year old game can compete with it's successor while being at odds with the developer? Kespa could make SC BW survive and flourish. Blizzard was forced to compromise because the facts on the ground changed. SC2 didn't explode in SC2.
The only thing that killed SC2 in Korea was the cost for PCBangs to purchase the game which meant they had to charge more for people to play it, so people just stuck with cheaper BW
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On May 11 2011 07:59 aimaimaim wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 07:09 IntoTheEmo wrote:On May 11 2011 05:33 ShootingStars wrote:
SC2 was made IN MIND that it would replace SCBW, so it will come with time. SC2 has 2 more expansions anyways :D What was the point of that? Nuclear plants were made IN MIND that they would replace regular power plants, but we don't see everyone switching over, due to certain concerns. Horrible analogy I know, but meh whatever works. If they can survive the onslaught brought about by Browder, they may just succeed in becoming a good e-sport even with 2 expansion, but it seems to me that after the 2nd expansion is released, they will be announcing that SC3:Xel'Naga. And you know what that means for casual and wannabe pros?? Casual: *Fuck yes! A new game! During SC2, I couldn own those noobs who were being payed by sponsors but with this .. oh what joy! Wannabe pros: *Fuck yes! A new game! During SC2, I almost own those noobs who were being payed by sponsors but with this .. oh what joy! SC2 Fanboys(much like how BW fanboys): Fuck your 1 click macro to 200/200! Blizzard **** you! Easy game shit!
Obviously it depends, you know? No one wants to play a game that's only mechanics or only strategy (unless it's chess) or only luck. You strike a balance. Different people like different points on the map. It's not quite so simple of having this gradient of elitism, where the more 'casual' you are the more you go for the newer game..
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On May 10 2011 21:18 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 18:14 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On May 10 2011 17:50 infinity2k9 wrote:On May 10 2011 15:58 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
I would prefer both last as long as they possibly can. Brood War has a legacy and a lot of investments, but I have to say SC2 was better designed with eSports in mind from the start and is more accommodating from that perspective. Each could currently learn something from the other. BW can't benefit from SC2 in any way though. It's a closed source game being deliberately neglected in favour of the sequel. I disagree that SC2 is even better designed for eSports at all. Just because they keep mentioning it's for eSports doesn't mean it's actually appropriate for it... after all they are trying to balance the game for all skill levels, that immediately is at odds with the highest level of competitive. I'd say their total lack of improvement upon Bnet 2.0 shows their intentions for eSports perfectly. Perhaps I was a bit too general. I didn't mean to get into any kind of balance discussion as that would derail the thread and it has many subtle facets that need explicating before a true discussion could be had. By designed with eSports in mind, I mean that visual it is more appealing to a broader audience, support from Blizzard for it has been organized far better then when SC was developed and released and just the general UI is more oriented towards streamlining the competitive experience. I did play Brood War off and on since 2002ish onward, and until 3rd party servers organized themselves and modified the UI slightly to support competitive gaming in a more robust manner, Starcraft was more of a game with multiplayer. And the multiplayer did not emphasize the competitive aspect so much as simply the fact that you could play against another person. SC2 further developed things like the ladder and matchmaker as well as supported news tickers for competitve events, etc. I don't think you can honestly say something like BW/KeSPA could not benefit in any way from lessons and developments made by SC2/Blizz/Gretech and keep a straight face. What lessons can they benefit from then? I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. KeSPA isn't a game developer, they can't modify the game in any way, so that means you're just trying to imply they can learn from the eSports side of things (yet you talk about ladder and matchmaking and the visuals, which is unrelated to KeSPA). In terms of eSports Gretech is simply taking its cue 100% from KeSPA, and Blizzard is simply paying lip service to eSports now and then and not actually making good on promises to improve it. So really no KeSPA can't learn anything from SC2, nothing you say they even have control of in BW. By the way the UI is not streamlined for competitive experience, it's streamlined for beginners and non-competitive players. It's totally the opposite. There's no point in getting into a UI debate if it's good or bad changes but it's not in any way related to competitive play, i'm not sure how you can try and imply this. It makes it easier to be to competitive sure, but that's a total matter of opinion if it's good or bad. Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 15:58 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
KeSPA and BW do have lessons they need to learn if you want it to outlast SC2.
They need to localize broadcast content globally.
They need to reinvigorate interest in BW outside Korea.
They need to increase tournament frequency and prize pools to provide an rival option for competitive gaming and earn potential for Starcraft gamers deciding between BW and SC2.
And IMO, they need someway to condense and convey the legacy and history behind BW for new fans to appreciate without having watch 12 years of replays.
Im sure you could pull other lessons.
Seriously what are you even talking about. Point by point here: - KeSPA, the KOREAN ESPORTS association, doesn't have to do anything globally. They organize tournaments for BW which has no global appeal, so it would be a terrible decision to do anything globally. They've allowed restreams of their content and hosted an OSL in China i think that's about as globally appealing as it's going to get. BW isn't going to magically gain interest outside of Korea again. You know this so i don't know why you are even saying it. This applies to both the first and second point. - The prize pools are big enough already because BW players have decent salaries at the A-team level. Players DO NOT live off prize pools, that is precisely what a stable eSports scene isn't suppose to have. Why would you force players to win to be able to live from playing the game? Incase you hadn't noticed only a single (bad) A-team player switched to SC2, and 1 other switched then came back. So clearly this point is invalid in the first place. If anything it's SC2 which needs to learn this, but as there's no central organization to try and push in that direction anyway other than Blizzard. Besides anyone who follows BW is aware that there's no room for another tournament. Players already suffer in ability trying to practice being in 2/3 events. And you can't raise the frequency because they are already running basically all the time.. so that doesn't make sense either. - Your last point is not a lesson from SC2 at all. But let's just entertain the notion anyway; Already old games are broadcast regularly on OGN/MBC, and i don't think there's many fans who are not aware of the history. If you're implying educating people outside of Korea about the history, well there was to actually be interest in the game first for people to do that. Of course some kind of english content or show that showed things from the past would be nice, but is there any point? And why would that be a lesson from SC2? I don't see the SC2 scene making any effort at all to convey any history of Starcraft. To sum it up i don't think you are up to date with the BW scene. In terms of just Korea, BW is healthy. They don't need to change to survive like you're trying to imply, not yet anyway. There's no mass exodus of fans, sponsors or players to SC2 which would necessitate the need to change. Personally i get the feeling the negative attitude of some in this thread is just annoyed people who wish the resources BW has was infact diverted to SC2. Well sorry it's not happening.
I get the feeling your turning my argument of how BW and SC2 need to be if both were to last together into BW versus SC2. Which is a topic that has been done to death, with no real conclusive results.
Take a step back for a second and look at both organizations from a blossoming competitive players perspective. On one hand you currently are seeing a global trend in support and financing for a game resulting in high earn potential for players and interest with in large part due to the global fan service from both Blizz and Gretech. Korea is becoming less insulated in this regard, so future player pools for KeSPA to draw upon will not be as unlimited as in the past.
Also, BW is already a niche competitive scene (as you even said) within a niche scene. Its certainly isn't growing and is being maintained by devoted core.
I don't wish any ill will to either games, but stepping back I really think you are ignoring the obvious state of the game. The outcomes of KeSPA not taking lessons from Blizz and Gretechs global push are either SC2 fails completely and it keeps treading water until it eventually drowns, or SC2 succeeds and it is slowly edged out as the competitive scene is absorbed into SC2 and new audiences not familiar with BW start and stay with SC2. BW and SC2 are different enough that core viewers can articulate the differences and nuances of the two, but far too similar for general audiences to care about.
KeSPA needs to reinvigorate the viewership through a global initiative. And while they are not developers they sure as hell are not helpless in that department. They are not using the Map editor from BW to make maps, they are using modded makers to do that. They have already changed the UI for players by including things like upward facing ramps, Modding the UI to be more appealing and attractive to a larger audience for both production and general play purposes should not be out of the scope of the BW community.
As pissed off as your are going to be for me saying this, new viewers and players are going to be interested in SC2 over BW at first because it doesn't look like a 12 year old, 3D-but-not-really, my-god-that-pixel-is-huge, game. And while perhaps the in-game game play cannot be altered, things like the menu on the bottom, resource counter, stupid stuff that you take for granted and are invisible to you, DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
KeSPA is not Blizzard, but as far as the competitive BW community is concerned, they might as well be. With a new lease on life at the conclusion of this case, I really hope that they do try to buff the BW scene instead of treading water and ignoring people like you and me and only focusing down the core Korean audience.
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SC2 was made to be an e-sport, but to replace BW, that's merely speculation. There has been no official word on that and only rumors.
BW is doing fine in South Korea, but mainly only in South Korea. SC2 on the other hand is booming, but there is so much growth everywhere that all the tournaments and leagues are not in an unified body. I'm not sure if that's what the SC2 progaming players/teams even want, but SC2 still has more potential for growth than BW nowadays.
For BW to get bigger, if the organizers want to, it's going to be a very interesting and challenging hurdle to capture audiences with more competitors.
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On May 11 2011 10:31 Pleiades wrote:
SC2 was made to be an e-sport, but to replace BW, that's merely speculation. There has been no official word on that and only rumors.
BW is doing fine in South Korea, but mainly only in South Korea. SC2 on the other hand is booming, but there is so much growth everywhere that all the tournaments and leagues are not in an unified body. I'm not sure if that's what the SC2 progaming players/teams even want, but SC2 still has more potential for growth than BW nowadays.
For BW to get bigger, if the organizers want to, it's going to be a very interesting and challenging hurdle to capture audiences with more competitors.
Exactly, BW and SC2 are different enough that fans could differentiate and appreciate the two seperately and allow them to coexist. But they are similar enough that new potential fans will probably test the waters the SC2 over BW, just because it has such a PR boost globally and it is newer.
BW can definitely survive competitively in Korea longer then anywhere else, but if they do not reform some things and at least try to entertain global interests (which based on TL alone still clearly exist) they are going to severely hamper their own growth and future. Korea does not live in a bubble and while KeSPA was formed with only Korea in mind, they will feel the pinch of the global market sooner or later if foreign SC2 communities/organizations continue to grow alongside Gretech.
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Thanks for the writeup! Good to have things a little more sorted out instead of just rumors...
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I want to hear more about Riot Games stealing the core employees of Blizzard Korea... Wonder why they would all leave like that.
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On May 11 2011 10:31 Pleiades wrote:
SC2 was made to be an e-sport, but to replace BW, that's merely speculation. There has been no official word on that and only rumors.
BW is doing fine in South Korea, but mainly only in South Korea. SC2 on the other hand is booming, but there is so much growth everywhere that all the tournaments and leagues are not in an unified body. I'm not sure if that's what the SC2 progaming players/teams even want, but SC2 still has more potential for growth than BW nowadays.
For BW to get bigger, if the organizers want to, it's going to be a very interesting and challenging hurdle to capture audiences with more competitors.
Q: On SC2, are you starting to see a ramp up in interest in Korea as more of the professional players shift toward the newer version, give us an update on the professional market there.
Michael Morhaime: The Korean E-Sports ... our partner, GOMTV, is running GSL, it continues to be very popular ... but we are seeing that SC1 has maintained popularity, and so the transition to SC2 has been slower than we anticipated.
Sounds to me like it was made to replace BW.
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On May 11 2011 09:11 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 21:18 infinity2k9 wrote:On May 10 2011 18:14 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On May 10 2011 17:50 infinity2k9 wrote:On May 10 2011 15:58 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
I would prefer both last as long as they possibly can. Brood War has a legacy and a lot of investments, but I have to say SC2 was better designed with eSports in mind from the start and is more accommodating from that perspective. Each could currently learn something from the other. BW can't benefit from SC2 in any way though. It's a closed source game being deliberately neglected in favour of the sequel. I disagree that SC2 is even better designed for eSports at all. Just because they keep mentioning it's for eSports doesn't mean it's actually appropriate for it... after all they are trying to balance the game for all skill levels, that immediately is at odds with the highest level of competitive. I'd say their total lack of improvement upon Bnet 2.0 shows their intentions for eSports perfectly. Perhaps I was a bit too general. I didn't mean to get into any kind of balance discussion as that would derail the thread and it has many subtle facets that need explicating before a true discussion could be had. By designed with eSports in mind, I mean that visual it is more appealing to a broader audience, support from Blizzard for it has been organized far better then when SC was developed and released and just the general UI is more oriented towards streamlining the competitive experience. I did play Brood War off and on since 2002ish onward, and until 3rd party servers organized themselves and modified the UI slightly to support competitive gaming in a more robust manner, Starcraft was more of a game with multiplayer. And the multiplayer did not emphasize the competitive aspect so much as simply the fact that you could play against another person. SC2 further developed things like the ladder and matchmaker as well as supported news tickers for competitve events, etc. I don't think you can honestly say something like BW/KeSPA could not benefit in any way from lessons and developments made by SC2/Blizz/Gretech and keep a straight face. What lessons can they benefit from then? I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. KeSPA isn't a game developer, they can't modify the game in any way, so that means you're just trying to imply they can learn from the eSports side of things (yet you talk about ladder and matchmaking and the visuals, which is unrelated to KeSPA). In terms of eSports Gretech is simply taking its cue 100% from KeSPA, and Blizzard is simply paying lip service to eSports now and then and not actually making good on promises to improve it. So really no KeSPA can't learn anything from SC2, nothing you say they even have control of in BW. By the way the UI is not streamlined for competitive experience, it's streamlined for beginners and non-competitive players. It's totally the opposite. There's no point in getting into a UI debate if it's good or bad changes but it's not in any way related to competitive play, i'm not sure how you can try and imply this. It makes it easier to be to competitive sure, but that's a total matter of opinion if it's good or bad. On May 10 2011 15:58 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
KeSPA and BW do have lessons they need to learn if you want it to outlast SC2.
They need to localize broadcast content globally.
They need to reinvigorate interest in BW outside Korea.
They need to increase tournament frequency and prize pools to provide an rival option for competitive gaming and earn potential for Starcraft gamers deciding between BW and SC2.
And IMO, they need someway to condense and convey the legacy and history behind BW for new fans to appreciate without having watch 12 years of replays.
Im sure you could pull other lessons.
Seriously what are you even talking about. Point by point here: - KeSPA, the KOREAN ESPORTS association, doesn't have to do anything globally. They organize tournaments for BW which has no global appeal, so it would be a terrible decision to do anything globally. They've allowed restreams of their content and hosted an OSL in China i think that's about as globally appealing as it's going to get. BW isn't going to magically gain interest outside of Korea again. You know this so i don't know why you are even saying it. This applies to both the first and second point. - The prize pools are big enough already because BW players have decent salaries at the A-team level. Players DO NOT live off prize pools, that is precisely what a stable eSports scene isn't suppose to have. Why would you force players to win to be able to live from playing the game? Incase you hadn't noticed only a single (bad) A-team player switched to SC2, and 1 other switched then came back. So clearly this point is invalid in the first place. If anything it's SC2 which needs to learn this, but as there's no central organization to try and push in that direction anyway other than Blizzard. Besides anyone who follows BW is aware that there's no room for another tournament. Players already suffer in ability trying to practice being in 2/3 events. And you can't raise the frequency because they are already running basically all the time.. so that doesn't make sense either. - Your last point is not a lesson from SC2 at all. But let's just entertain the notion anyway; Already old games are broadcast regularly on OGN/MBC, and i don't think there's many fans who are not aware of the history. If you're implying educating people outside of Korea about the history, well there was to actually be interest in the game first for people to do that. Of course some kind of english content or show that showed things from the past would be nice, but is there any point? And why would that be a lesson from SC2? I don't see the SC2 scene making any effort at all to convey any history of Starcraft. To sum it up i don't think you are up to date with the BW scene. In terms of just Korea, BW is healthy. They don't need to change to survive like you're trying to imply, not yet anyway. There's no mass exodus of fans, sponsors or players to SC2 which would necessitate the need to change. Personally i get the feeling the negative attitude of some in this thread is just annoyed people who wish the resources BW has was infact diverted to SC2. Well sorry it's not happening. I get the feeling your turning my argument of how BW and SC2 need to be if both were to last together into BW versus SC2. Which is a topic that has been done to death, with no real conclusive results. Take a step back for a second and look at both organizations from a blossoming competitive players perspective. On one hand you currently are seeing a global trend in support and financing for a game resulting in high earn potential for players and interest with in large part due to the global fan service from both Blizz and Gretech. Korea is becoming less insulated in this regard, so future player pools for KeSPA to draw upon will not be as unlimited as in the past. Also, BW is already a niche competitive scene (as you even said) within a niche scene. Its certainly isn't growing and is being maintained by devoted core. I don't wish any ill will to either games, but stepping back I really think you are ignoring the obvious state of the game. The outcomes of KeSPA not taking lessons from Blizz and Gretechs global push are either SC2 fails completely and it keeps treading water until it eventually drowns, or SC2 succeeds and it is slowly edged out as the competitive scene is absorbed into SC2 and new audiences not familiar with BW start and stay with SC2. BW and SC2 are different enough that core viewers can articulate the differences and nuances of the two, but far too similar for general audiences to care about. KeSPA needs to reinvigorate the viewership through a global initiative. And while they are not developers they sure as hell are not helpless in that department. They are not using the Map editor from BW to make maps, they are using modded makers to do that. They have already changed the UI for players by including things like upward facing ramps, Modding the UI to be more appealing and attractive to a larger audience for both production and general play purposes should not be out of the scope of the BW community. As pissed off as your are going to be for me saying this, new viewers and players are going to be interested in SC2 over BW at first because it doesn't look like a 12 year old, 3D-but-not-really, my-god-that-pixel-is-huge, game. And while perhaps the in-game game play cannot be altered, things like the menu on the bottom, resource counter, stupid stuff that you take for granted and are invisible to you, DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. KeSPA is not Blizzard, but as far as the competitive BW community is concerned, they might as well be. With a new lease on life at the conclusion of this case, I really hope that they do try to buff the BW scene instead of treading water and ignoring people like you and me and only focusing down the core Korean audience.
You just repeated the same thing again basically... KeSPA doesn't need to do anything globally it's outside of their scope and it would be a waste of time and resources, end of discussion basically. Your 'lessons' are just wrong, after i countered your points all you've said in this entire post is 'uh they should change the UI a bit', yet that doesn't matter anyway because it's not trying to and not ever going to reach a new audience and the current fans are happy with familiarity.
You're just talking about appealing to an audience that is not interested, but that's Starcraft 2's goal at this point no BW. Why would i be pissed off that people are not interested in BW, isn't that an obvious fact which i just stated in my previous post... changing the fucking UI isn't suddenly going to reinvent the scene. In Korea they are infact already experimenting with various ideas like MyStarleague, but you know as well as i do it's never going to change outside of Korea no matter what they do so i really don't know why you're trying to argue this.
BW's time already happened in the rest of the world, to think that anything KeSPA could do would change that is simply delusional.
On May 11 2011 10:50 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 10:31 Pleiades wrote:
SC2 was made to be an e-sport, but to replace BW, that's merely speculation. There has been no official word on that and only rumors.
BW is doing fine in South Korea, but mainly only in South Korea. SC2 on the other hand is booming, but there is so much growth everywhere that all the tournaments and leagues are not in an unified body. I'm not sure if that's what the SC2 progaming players/teams even want, but SC2 still has more potential for growth than BW nowadays.
For BW to get bigger, if the organizers want to, it's going to be a very interesting and challenging hurdle to capture audiences with more competitors. Exactly, BW and SC2 are different enough that fans could differentiate and appreciate the two seperately and allow them to coexist. But they are similar enough that new potential fans will probably test the waters the SC2 over BW, just because it has such a PR boost globally and it is newer. BW can definitely survive competitively in Korea longer then anywhere else, but if they do not reform some things and at least try to entertain global interests (which based on TL alone still clearly exist) they are going to severely hamper their own growth and future. Korea does not live in a bubble and while KeSPA was formed with only Korea in mind, they will feel the pinch of the global market sooner or later if foreign SC2 communities/organizations continue to grow alongside Gretech.
This post you just repeat the same thing again despite it being on flawed premises. It's not going to be affected by the global eSports market, hasn't the BW scenes existence already proved to you it's totally insulated in the first place? Why would they even get involved in Europe/US, and try and market an 11 year old game, when foreign eSports notoriously switches from game to game as it is?
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IIRC wasn't it in one of their contracts with Gretech Blizzard had omitted a section about a transition from BW -> SC2 in either the korean or english version.
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On May 11 2011 15:59 aru wrote:
Q: On SC2, are you starting to see a ramp up in interest in Korea as more of the professional players shift toward the newer version, give us an update on the professional market there.
Michael Morhaime: The Korean E-Sports ... our partner, GOMTV, is running GSL, it continues to be very popular ... but we are seeing that SC1 has maintained popularity, and so the transition to SC2 has been slower than we anticipated.
Sounds to me like it was made to replace BW.
Too vague of an answer, and depends on how you want to interpret it. Does he mean that SC1 is still popular so upcoming progamers want to stick to the stabilised SC1 market or decide to go to the potential SC2 market, or should current SC1 players shift/transition to SC2?
About the part of the contract with Gretech/GOM obtaining SC broadcasting rights. Kind of vague as well about the transition. You could think like it as above with the players, or should they create a league/tournament similar to the BW leagues so that players aren't confused about the format?
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I totally agree with infinity2k9 here.. That other guy that keep yapping about "entertaining global interest" doesnt know what he is talking about..
Why would a Korean association go out of their way to entertain people from other countries?.. At least they are not obliged too.. And Blizz is only entertaining global interest because "global interest" will entertain their pockets anyway.. Nothing about the betterment of E-Sport can be learn from Blizz n them imo.
@Pleiades
That he mention a "transition to SC2" in public is a good indicator of what they have in mind. Denying that they (Blizz) make SC2 expecting it to replace Brood War is just refusing to look at things objectively, imo.
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True, but I don't think they meant to replace BW at SC2 launch, but eventually in the future. This is what I thought you guys were implying.
Anyways, Blizzard found out in the end that BW esports scene stronger than they thought in Korea.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On May 11 2011 18:42 Pleiades wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 15:59 aru wrote:
Q: On SC2, are you starting to see a ramp up in interest in Korea as more of the professional players shift toward the newer version, give us an update on the professional market there.
Michael Morhaime: The Korean E-Sports ... our partner, GOMTV, is running GSL, it continues to be very popular ... but we are seeing that SC1 has maintained popularity, and so the transition to SC2 has been slower than we anticipated.
Sounds to me like it was made to replace BW. Too vague of an answer, and depends on how you want to interpret it. Does he mean that SC1 is still popular so upcoming progamers want to stick to the stabilised SC1 market or decide to go to the potential SC2 market, or should current SC1 players shift/transition to SC2? About the part of the contract with Gretech/GOM obtaining SC broadcasting rights. Kind of vague as well about the transition. You could think like it as above with the players, or should they create a league/tournament similar to the BW leagues so that players aren't confused about the format?
I can distinctivly remember this:
[4] "Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty :
Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms available for play." was the original English on that article
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188322
Its not hard to draw a conclusion based upon everything known that Blizzards their intent was to replace BW with SC2
Lol edit: wrong way around
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On May 11 2011 21:15 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +[4] "Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty :
Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms available for play." was the original English on that article http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188322Its not hard to draw a conclusion based upon everything known that Blizzards their intent was to replace SC2 with BW.
You can speculate either way. Maybe they didn't want GOM to botch the way they handled the SC2 leagues compared to how professional the BW leagues were. They didn't want the current progamers that were already interested to switch to have an alienated competition format. Plus the fact that the writing in Korean before that statement mention a gentle transition for players, I don't know exactly what it means, my Korean is not that great. Milkis can probably clarify it better.
Blizzard has strict rules for broadcasting professional SC2 tournaments. You are severely limited to what you can do for an amateur license they provide you to run a SC2 tournament, which means they probably want you to have the capability and investment to run a professional league/tournament.
We can probably agree that they were trying to stall production of more BW leagues, but to dismantle it completely?
If however, I'm wrong, I'll apologize and back down since this is already resolved.
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meant to edit, not quote... Sorry
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I'll just try to explain my point of view one more time then leave it be considering the divisiveness of the topic.
The reason KeSPA was able to be so focused in the past, is that all Starcraft competition focused on Korea. If you wanted to compete in SC, you needed to really be in Korea to do it, under their jurisdiction basically. But following the release of SC2 and the legal troubles with Blizzard, this is no longer the case.
SC2 is close enough to SC that it will pull viewership globally (at first) but in Korea as well. Even if SC2 only takes off globally, so long as Gretech is there to play mediator, future SC competitors deciding whether to invest time in BW or SC2, will probably be pulled towards SC2 due to more opportunities for participation, money, etc. This goes double for sponsors of events who could care less about what is being played so much is who and how many are watching it.
Players no longer have to go to Korea to play and earn in the big leagues. If the global market is ignored, the future player base of BW will eventually erode as well as sponsorship deals and general viewer interest. And while Korean SC fans will definitely be the last to go, if the production value and quality of play continues to rise in SC2 (no reason it should not), then even they will begin to divide their time accordingly.
KeSPA was indeed titled Korean-eSPA, but they had the luxury of being able to practically behave like the World-eSPA when it came to high level competitive SC. Its was and still is a niche audience, but it was theirs. Now they are up against not just Gretech, but a globalized fan base obtaining SC content from around the world. And Korean fans and pros alike are becoming evermore aware of it.
KeSPA can not afford to operate in a bubble anymore and still coddle hopes of growth and development in the face of these developments. BW does not have to die, but KeSPA's focus does need to evolve in my opinon.
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EPT
