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51685 Posts
On May 10 2011 16:47 BreakerD wrote:
Too bad this couldnt happen sooner. Maybe it would've saved estro and hite from disbanding maybe not.
As for people saying Kespa might get involved in sc2 I highly doubt that. Creating a sc2 PL is too much work and it involves money. The only corporation I see strong enough to sponsor a team in sc2 are skt, kt, and cj (maybe MBC but they gave up light to woojin so who knows). Even sponsor of GSL doesnt have the money to create a Proleague or it would've been done.
lol estro and hite disbanding have nothing at all to do with the kespa-blizzard dispute (estro you could make an argument for).
estro left because their parent company had no reason to be in ESPORTS anymore after their 'broadcasting' rights expired (IEG).
hite disbanded because literally 3/4's of their team were caught match fixing and it was impossible to rebuild the team off that.
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On May 10 2011 16:47 BreakerD wrote:
Too bad this couldnt happen sooner. Maybe it would've saved estro and hite from disbanding maybe not.
As for people saying Kespa might get involved in sc2 I highly doubt that. Creating a sc2 PL is too much work and it involves money. The only corporation I see strong enough to sponsor a team in sc2 are skt, kt, and cj (maybe MBC but they gave up light to woojin so who knows). Even sponsor of GSL doesnt have the money to create a Proleague or it would've been done.
I don't know what's up with MBC, they keep giving away to champions to other teams (i.e., Bisu, Light).
It's like they breed champions for the benefit of the other teams..
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I guess Blizzard finally realized they need to get a deal done with KESPA, OGN, and MBC since Star2 isn't going as well as they thought it would in Korea. Maybe Star2 will get more exposure in Korea and better opportunities for it to grow will happen since GSL simply isn't enough to do more than keep it stabilized. Need another league over there to compete and give some variety. Maybe OGN will create one since they seem to take more chances on things than mbc.
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On May 10 2011 14:05 konadora wrote:
lmao blizzard dogs, finally realising they can't survive in korea without harmony between them and kespa.
This is the part that doesn't add up to me. There really is an air of bad wind going around Blizzard, mostly surrounding it's main runner product which I shall not name here (please don't be dumb and reply quoting OH IT'S THIS GAME AND IT SUCKS).
This is all IMHO
+ Show Spoiler + I mean they could fire/lose it's entire staff at Blizzard Korea and the logical conclusion to all that wouldn't be: Oh we need the television networks on our side to sell games at least not in light of how good the game is growing outside korea, nor would it affect their claim in court on the IP. I say this working literally around IP everyday (and right now <.<) and knowing that the lawyers they have on retainer are still the real deal. This part to me just strikes me as rumors and hearsay from
Ex-possibly-disgruntled-employees.
However it's not uncommon for these cases to get delayed to the point where they never go to court. I'd be talking out my ass if I said how I though this case would have gone in court, however seeing how both sides stand to win with a favorable settlement, it really isn't unreasable to believe that there is some truth to this story. Blizzard for instance may have been the first one to come back proposing different terms. It's silly to argue about who bent over first though... seeing how such a deal is most likely good for for both parties.
Good job on consolidating most of the information by the way.  Looking forward to see this story unwind.
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On May 10 2011 22:22 Furycrab wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 14:05 konadora wrote:
lmao blizzard dogs, finally realising they can't survive in korea without harmony between them and kespa. This is the part that doesn't add up to me. There really is an air of bad wind going around Blizzard, mostly surrounding it's main runner product which I shall not name here (please don't be dumb and reply quoting OH IT'S THIS GAME AND IT SUCKS). This is all IMHO + Show Spoiler + I mean they could fire/lose it's entire staff at Blizzard Korea and the logical conclusion to all that wouldn't be: Oh we need the television networks on our side to sell games at least not in light of how good the game is growing outside korea, nor would it affect their claim in court on the IP. I say this working literally around IP everyday (and right now <.<) and knowing that the lawyers they have on retainer are still the real deal. This part to me just strikes me as rumors and hearsay from
Ex-possibly-disgruntled-employees.
However it's not uncommon for these cases to get delayed to the point where they never go to court. I'd be talking out my ass if I said how I though this case would have gone in court, however seeing how both sides stand to win with a favorable settlement, it really isn't unreasable to believe that there is some truth to this story. Blizzard for instance may have been the first one to come back proposing different terms. It's silly to argue about who bent over first though... seeing how such a deal is most likely good for for both parties. Good job on consolidating most of the information by the way. Looking forward to see this story unwind.
According to the contents of your spoiler I'd say bliz bent over given they're the reason that talks fell through and court action ensued in the first place.
IMHO, Blizzard had a lot more to lose in that battle than to gain. Certainly it would have been a landmark case that would test the extent of Blizzard's IP and whether derivative products such as replays, and broadcasts also belonged to them.
If OGN/MBC won, which I think was very likely, this would effect sc2 broadcasts as well and I don't think Blizzard wanted to take that risk.
But overall a victory for BW nonetheless..they tried to kill/maim it but through it all, it survived and is still super strong/healthy.
Pity for sc2 that if they had made such a deal with kespa/ogn/mbc before releasing sc2, the hype created by the game being broadcast on ogn/mbc would have resulted in a lot more sales for blizzard.. owells.
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It's a good point about the court case actually. Had it gone through, wouldn't it set a precedent for developer vs broadcaster for all games in the future? Maybe the way it was progressing they didn't want to go down.
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putting my personal opinions aside, i would rather that no matter the outcome, broodwar continue regardless of how much success or lack of, that sc2 attains in korea.
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TIG has a follow up on this story.
http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=102&id=656454
No shocks here. Blizz/OGN/MBC/KeSPA are working on a deal, slated to finish negotiations for an agreement before June if early, only for SC1, negotiations are going better than ever before, "Korean e-Sports scene" will recognize Blizz's IP rights, Blizz will meet much of demands by the industry, once they reach an agreement all lawsuits will be dropped.
No official statements from any parties involved.
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On May 10 2011 23:45 NHY wrote:TIG has a follow up on this story. http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=102&id=656454No shocks here. Blizz/OGN/MBC/KeSPA are working on a deal, slated to finish negotiations for an agreement before June if early, only for SC1, negotiations are going better than ever before, "Korean e-Sports scene" will recognize Blizz's IP rights, Blizz will meet much of demands by the industry, once they reach an agreement all lawsuits will be dropped. No official statements from any parties involved.
So, like I said in the previous thread, Blizzard gets pretty much what they wanted, except precedent, but I can't imagine other similar suits in foreseeable future so that doesn't matter much
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Good to see they finally reached an agreement. Hopefully they broadcast GOMTV on TV that would be big.
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On May 11 2011 01:17 syllogism wrote:
So, like I said in the previous thread, Blizzard gets pretty much what they wanted, except precedent, but I can't imagine other similar suits in foreseeable future so that doesn't matter much
As of right now, they only get logos and the annoyance that there is a 'pirate' league they haven't been able to shut down.
They don't get ownership of the players, veto rights, audit rights, ownership over esports content, etc.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=123275
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=173841
Blizzard went to court. Blizzard made arguments and claims they judges didn't understand and Blizzard couldn't explain.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188322
In the mean time SC2, the reason for the whole IP rights issue, is not popular in S Korea. The only major league in Korea is Blizzard funded. All the other big ones are outside of S Korea. S Korean players are even playing in foreigner leagues.
There is no longer a reason for Blizzard to market SC2 in S Korea through Gomtv.
So Blizzard gave up. Both how events unfolded and the few details that leaked out so far suggest this.
There is no cause for Kespa to suddenly change their position. SC BW was doing extremely well considering the SC2 competition. What 10 year old game can compete with it's successor while being at odds with the developer? Kespa could make SC BW survive and flourish.
Blizzard was forced to compromise because the facts on the ground changed. SC2 didn't explode in SC2.
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If Kespa et al recognize Blizzard's IP rights and that they need the license to operate, they essentially get those rights as they've the right to stop licensing after the term ends, unless of course the contract stipulates otherwise. Moreover, just because those demands were made does not mean they actually expected them to comply. Also, some of those articles are biased to a degree, which is hardly surprising given the source, that I'm not convinced they are reliable. I admit I haven't followed the case nearly as closely as some and am mostly interested in it due to being a law student and having taken several IP law courses recently.
Blizzard isn't forced to compromise at all as by now all the potential damage to blizzard brand in Korea has pretty much been inflicted and this has no impact elsewhere. Only if they for some reason thought the court was likely to rule against them a compromise would make sense, and that's not particularly likely given how seldom courts rule against IP right owners these days. The court ruling in favour of Blizzard, on the other hand, would be disastrous for Kespa and settling makes sense.
Finally, I don't see Blizzard having much interest in having completely control over the BW/SC2 esports scene as despite it being hugely successful, it's wouldn't be particularly profitable. These days their non-WoW products are mostly brand builders.
Regardless, the outcome is indeed great news
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i would love to see korea introduce english commentary for brood war
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syllogism how can you say they wasn't interested in direct control when they had the demands they made? I suppose a lot of court cases (especially in the US maybe?), do make demands much higher than what they expect to get to be fair, but if they simply are agreeing to pay a license now then they got almost none of the demands; just a fee that KeSPA were apparently willing to negotiate on in the first place, and their logo displayed. They could have got that without even going to court most likely. If they thought the court case was going their way then might as well pursue to the end, no reason to settle.
Don't you think it does infact seem that changed their minds based on either what was happening in the court, or Starcraft 2's activity in Korea? Morhaime's comment yesterday about SC2/SC1 activity in Korea seems to suggest they were not expecting the situation to be what it is. I agree that the scene would not be profitable much at all to them anyway but you can imagine them seeing the pinnacle of BW proscene in like 05/06 with 100,000 people at proleague finals and thinking of the possibilities of that happening in the future with SC2 except themselves in the driving seat.
No matter though, however this is reached it's good anyway.
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I could very well be wrong; those were just assumptions that seemed reasonable based on, the relatively little I suppose, what I knew about the case, blizzard and these kind of cases in general. As I'm not particularly interested in their motivations or intentions, I'll rather just wait for details of the deal rather than try piece the story together based on various sources of questionable reliability.
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I hope they keep making one dollar contracts for broadcasting.
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good news indeed. thanks for the update
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Glad to see calmer heads prevail, both sides seem to have softened their stance since the court proceedings started and thats good for us all.
Hopefully we will now have the prospect of SC2 and its big brother BW being shown side by side on TV, as it should have always been. Hopefully tho, Kespa won't get its claws quite so tightly wrapped around players tho, the SC2 scene is going quite strong and a more player lead association is always a good thing imo.
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SC2 was made IN MIND that it would replace SCBW, so it will come with time. SC2 has 2 more expansions anyways :D
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Nice compilation of everything so far.
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EPT
