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On November 01 2010 16:18 raviy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 13:47 ricerocket wrote:On November 01 2010 12:09 raviy wrote:
I've been working in a law firm that specializes in IP law for about a year now.
I fail to see how Blizzard can win this argument.
It's basic derivative copyright law.
For example, Microsoft doesn't have copyright ownership over documents created with MS Word.
Unless it's specifically in the terms of sale/use, no company owns the copyright to works created as a result of the use of goods that they have sold. Wow, you are either lying your ass off, or you are working in some pretty fail law firm. Comparing MS Word and Starcraft? Has anyone ever even given you a lessen about basic functionality classifications? And go and ask your boss about forensics competitions and interpretation festivals vs copyright laws and the two exceptions set in the Copyright Act of 1976 (the very first thing you learn in law school regarding IPs, btw). Or don't, might get yourself fired. Oh I see, the US assumes copyright subsists in the performance of works. No such copyright exists in my jurisdiction except for dramatic/music works. It's not an exception to copyright, because copyright is not assumed to exist in that circumstance. Also, there is no difference in the legal argument here as to the use of MS Word and Starcraft, as functionality is not an issue. Although I can see how it would be in the US. Oh well, that point is moot, since the issue would likely be dealt with under SK law.
Actually, the WIPO Treaty protects computer programs as literary works, which specifically grants the copyright owner the right to reproduce, prepare derivative versions of, distribute, perform publicly and display a work. As far as I know the treaty (and its latest extension in 2000) was adopted by all members of the UN, including SK. It's rather strange Hong Kong would be subject a different rule when it is part of China, which is a UN member, but maybe you are talking about another jurisdiction.
The public performance exceptions come into effect in circumstances of education and charity, neither of which Kespa would qualify for in my opinion. It doesn't even matter anyway, since it looks like Blizzard is suing the station, which is not a NPO by any means.
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On November 01 2010 16:25 Rikstah wrote:
ricerocket the point he's trying to make is if it was so blindingly obvious as you say it is, there wouldn't be a need for all this negotiation, mediation, and all that bs. Unless you are of the opinion blizzard are nice guys who tried to cut kespa a break or something.
Well, I do in fact think the reason Blizzard has been negotiating in the first place is to preserve the eSport scene of BW as wholesome as possible, out of the consideration for both players and fans and its own PR image. If they wanted to destroy it, they would have sued in 2007.
Also, you are being a bastard to people who don't agree with you, a real condescending one. I can say im guilty of this before, but we can't have a decent discussion on the matter when everyone thinks they have enough knowledge to single handedly win the case.
I'm sorry, but I just can't find myself being nice to people who obviously don't know what they are talking about and still try to sound like experts.
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True, everyone is trying to sound like experts on the matter... some people are seriously being retarded and they don't know it yet.
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Haha, well I wasn't the one who said the law is bad because there are lawyers. 
Btw, the negotiation took 3 years, not the lawsuit. I don't know how long the lawsuit will take, but you should know that there actually are differences between those two things other than how they are pronounced.
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Estonia4505 Posts
On November 01 2010 16:43 ricerocket wrote:
I'm sorry, but I just can't find myself being nice to people who obviously don't know what they are talking about and still try to sound like experts.
That's actually a pretty good case for not arguing at all. I'm not saying you are wrong, but if you are arguing in a condescending way because "somebody is wrong on the internet", then that is just retarded in a long term perspective. There are seriously a lot better things to do with your time. The forum won't get richer. The same point has been argued in a nicer way.
There is a lot of hatred right now, and you are not helping. Please consider that.
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I am aware theres a big difference.
Just pointing out that if the law was set in stone regarding these exact circumstances, there wouldn't be any room for negotiating on kespa's part, let alone 3 strained years of it.
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On November 01 2010 17:15 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 16:43 ricerocket wrote:
I'm sorry, but I just can't find myself being nice to people who obviously don't know what they are talking about and still try to sound like experts. That's actually a pretty good case for not arguing at all. I'm not saying you are wrong, but if you are arguing in a condescending way because "somebody is wrong on the internet" is just retarded in a long term perspective. There are seriously a lot better things to do with your time. The forum won't get richer. The same point has been argued in a nicer way. There is a lot of hatred right now, and you are not helping. Please consider that.
So true.
I have to say though for the first few pages I thought this was one of the least hate filled discussions on the matter.
Probably because a bunch of people just realised there isn't actually that much money being made out of BW (if any at all)... considering that we watch pro league for free, everyone does.
- yet still people came up with crazy ideas as to how kespa is actually still secretly ripping a fortune somehow
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On November 01 2010 17:15 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 16:43 ricerocket wrote:
I'm sorry, but I just can't find myself being nice to people who obviously don't know what they are talking about and still try to sound like experts. That's actually a pretty good case for not arguing at all. I'm not saying you are wrong, but if you are arguing in a condescending way because "somebody is wrong on the internet" is just retarded in a long term perspective. There are seriously a lot better things to do with your time. The forum won't get richer. The same point has been argued in a nicer way. There is a lot of hatred right now, and you are not helping. Please consider that.
Well, for one thing, I'm not "arguing," I'm "correcting."
And I'm not doing it for the sake of the idiots posting the ignorant info, I'm doing it for the sake of others who may not know better and may take those uninformed opinions as facts. Please consider that.
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On November 01 2010 17:16 Rikstah wrote:
I am aware theres a big difference.
Just pointing out that if the law was set in stone regarding these exact circumstances, there wouldn't be any room for negotiating on kespa's part, let alone 3 strained years of it.
Sure there is, they could shut down the entire operation and force Blizzard and its partners to start from scratch.
Negotiation leverages include plenty aside from the law.
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I still think its an assumption that blizzards rights go that far. Like other people have said, this specific case is without precedent. We'll have to see what happens in court.
Its going to be interesting. All I know is no matter what the outcome the hate between these 2 sides will only get worse.
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Wow. Many Internet lawyers wowow. No need for speculation, just wait until law suit Is over please.
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On November 01 2010 13:55 ricerocket wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 13:44 sylverfyre wrote:On October 31 2010 05:14 ricerocket wrote:On October 30 2010 16:09 HunterX11 wrote:
I'm pretty sure there's no WIPO mediation clause in the Brood War EULA--and indeed the very existence of "mediation" and "arbitration", "lawyers", "lawsuits" etc. are a testament to how the law is far from precisely defined. After all, if it were so precise, there would be no such things as lengthy legal battles to begin with, since it would be simple to rule on a case quickly. Wait a minute, what does that have to do with how well written the law is? Are you telling me we need to define the laws of rape and murder more clearly because those trials can also take years and involve teams of lawyers? Ok, I guess there's no point to be too harsh on someone clearly without any basic understanding of the legal system in developed societies. The process takes time because in order to reach justice, all sides of the stories must be told and all evidences must be cross-examined. This procedure includes pre-trial (pleadings, discovery, bargains, jury selection etc), trial (presentation, examination, motions, rebuttals, jury instruction/deliberation etc), verdict, and last but perhaps most important in civil cases, appeals. That's not even taking consideration how much lag there is between stages of the trial simply because the courthouse is always overcapacity with cases in queue. Sigh, it's really annoying how uninformed people can be and yet so blindly confident of what they are posting. The law in criminal cases is quite clear, the lengthy court cases is to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the alleged crimes were committed. In cases such as these, often things already ARE in a grey area of the law where there are few, if any, precedents. It's not just a file charge, present evidence, make testimony type case. This case will take a while before even being brought to a jury, if it even goes in front of a jury. It's not about whether one party broke the law, the actions done are quite clear. It's about whether these actions constitute breaking IP law. Are you even reading the post you are responding to? Let me help you with your reading comprehension issues: again, what does the length of the trial and the existence of lawyers and trial protocols have to do with the clarity of the laws being argued? And I already commented on you BW zealots' claim that there are "few, if any, precedents." It's still pretty LOL-worthy, though.
Length of trial is pretty much just a bad thing for all of us fans. It means that this mess isn't going to end, in favor of ANY party, before a lot of damage has been done to the e-sports scene. (Already has been, for that matter)
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I just don't understand what all the fuss is about. BW is Blizzard's game and if they want to kill it, then let them kill it! It's time for all these Korean BW players to move on, IMO.
Why can't KeSPA just switch to SC2, pay the royalties, and legally broadcast games to make a profit? Why are they so hellbent on keeping a dead game alive and making a living illegally?
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EPT
