A shocking news was delivered on Fomos reporting that Tester (Seo Gi Su), one of the dominant Protoss of SC2 has failed to advance into main round (RO64) in GSL 2.
He lost to Terran user, Kim Byung Jun (FlintZenith), clan member of Zenith, in offline elimination round on Oct. 11th.
Tester beat Ye-Jun-Hee and Kim-Min-Je with ease to advance to elimination round final. All seemed to be going well for him, but it he suffered a defeat to a hidden foe, Kim Byung Jun.
Kim Byung Jun defeated Tester 2-0 with his own unique timing rush and advanced into the main round of GSL 2.
Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
Note: "cheese" not used to blast Tester's opponent. A win's a win duders.
It's time to recognize that this tournament format is very random. It's not a precedent. Great players were leaving GSL1 very early, and in each round. There's also to be expected very little repeatability, meaning that those who did well in GSL1 won't necessarily do well in GSL2, and vice-versa.
I think the only reason they haven't seeded anyone is so that more newcomers have a chance to put their name out there, so I wouldn't say it's a bad thing.
This is pretty harsh but it goes to show that NOBODY is safe in an open qualifier. Those who have already made it in can consider themselves lucky, 'cos there are no guarantees.
At least the guy he lost to wasn't called Gaybar =/
I think it's interesting how many are immediately jumping to blame the GSL format or assume that the opponent cheesed. Tester's a high-quality player, no doubt, but it is too much to entertain the possibility that maybe Kim Byung Jun is just better?
If nothing else, I'm very interested to see how the "unknown" fares going forward.
EDIT: Note, I'm not particularly saying that the lack of seeding is a good thing, I'm just throwing it out there that maybe Kim Byung Jun is actually just good at Starcraft.
On October 11 2010 16:55 Highways wrote: Qualifying system fail.
Top 8 of season 1 should've had auto entry into the ro64.
As I understand it, the GSL will have seeds. The first 3 GSL seasons are actually to determine the seeds starting with GSL 4. The top players are given the rank "S" and are allowed to seed into the Ro64.
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
or it might be simply a bo3 against another top notch player
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
It was 2-0, and by the hundreds of posts on the other thread, didn't look like it was cheese, instead it was really smart play and smart studying.
I'm pretty sad that nobody is going to give this guy any credit for taking out tester, instead they just blame it on cheese/luck.
I'm with iNcontroL. The game is so new that nobody can ever be guaranteed to qualify, tester, cool, etc. included. Anyone can lose, and today, it was Testers day to lose.
Would really like to see replays, I'm a bit confused why pro toss keep having problems with early t rushes, first jangminchul, then huk vs qxc who surprisingly likes to go zealot, stalker, stalker instead of a sentry, and now tester, is it really that necessary to play aggressive when t can have the advantage early and your widely regarded as the better player?
Its a new game, there should be no seeds as nobody can know for sure that the first GSL players are truly good or because it was the first GSL. But yes, I think its sad for Tester that he didn't go through.
It's unorthodox play that probably took him out. He doesn't ladder that much and he has a small team of practice partners. I haven't seen Gas play but Clide on the other hand sticks to standard play in all the games I've seen of him.
Well the reason why that sort of qualifier sucks is that you canot really build sympathies for a player in this tourney as there are so many new and unknown faces every new cup. The korean SC2 scene desperately needs Stars but if even many Ro16 drop out there is no way to get accustomed to players.
That's a shame. Must have had an off day or played against something he was unfamiliar with I guess. Shame though, he would probably have delivered good games.
On October 11 2010 16:55 Highways wrote: Qualifying system fail.
Top 8 of season 1 should've had auto entry into the ro64.
As I understand it, the GSL will have seeds. The first 3 GSL seasons are actually to determine the seeds starting with GSL 4. The top players are given the rank "S" and are allowed to seed into the Ro64.
This sounds really really retarded. Why would you seed from 3 tournaments into one tournament? If they just seed the top 2 its only 6 players but that would be really limited, I think top 4 should be seeded into the next tournament and the rest of the top 8 seeded into the end of a qualifier. The way they are doing it if they try and seed a fair number 4-8 players they will fill basically 1/4th the bracket.
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
On October 11 2010 16:49 JWD wrote: GSL needs seeds so freaking bad.
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
It was 2-0, and by the hundreds of posts on the other thread, didn't look like it was cheese, instead it was really smart play and smart studying.
I'm pretty sad that nobody is going to give this guy any credit for taking out tester, instead they just blame it on cheese/luck.
I'm with iNcontroL. The game is so new that nobody can ever be guaranteed to qualify, tester, cool, etc. included. Anyone can lose, and today, it was Testers day to lose.
You can't really blame it all on the newness of the game. Offline qualifiers like this are brutal. Just go back and look at all the players who got stuck in qualifier hell in MSL/OSL back in broodwar.
On October 11 2010 16:55 Highways wrote: Qualifying system fail.
Top 8 of season 1 should've had auto entry into the ro64.
As I understand it, the GSL will have seeds. The first 3 GSL seasons are actually to determine the seeds starting with GSL 4. The top players are given the rank "S" and are allowed to seed into the Ro64.
This sounds really really retarded. Why would you seed from 3 tournaments into one tournament? If they just seed the top 2 its only 6 players but that would be really limited, I think top 4 should be seeded into the next tournament and the rest of the top 8 seeded into the end of a qualifier. The way they are doing it if they try and seed a fair number 4-8 players they will fill basically 1/4th the bracket.
Kind of ridiculous :/ Can you source this?
From wiki: "The results of these three tournaments will also decide who will play in the highest division of GomTV GSL 2011. After the tournaments have been played, the top32 players will be classified as "Class S" players and will enter the top division. The players finishing within 33-96th place will be classified as "Class A" players. Both of these classifications qualifies the player for the 2011 GomTV GSL, with Class S players being seeded."
These news are very disheartening and it makes me wonder about the nature of SC2. I don't know who took out July and Moon who are beasts, but the guy who beat tester doesn't look impressive enough to eliminate such an amazing player
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
Hahahaha, yeah for some reason I tend to assume that if somebody lost it was because of some grand reason, but cheese sounds about right
This is the tournament to determine seeds. That's why no one is reseeded. If they were reseeded then winning Open 1 gives a huge advantage over winning Open 2. That's extremely silly.
SC2 has a lot of luck and divergence. This is why Elky quit WC3. It is a new game, which naturally has this. But SC2 is also designed to be this way. When you try to focus a lot more on decision making rather than mechanics you get people that accidentally make the right or wrong decision. You can't accidentally have good mechanics.
And don't give me the 'if SC2 is so easy then why aren't you winning SC2' line. If SC2 is so easy, then why did Tester lose? Because the game is easier for everyone. That's the point. That's why inferior players win more often. And that's why it doesn't feel good stealing a game off a better player or winning vs a inferior player by dodging cheese/luck.
And Tester won points already. Maybe not enough for S class, but no one knows how the point rating works. Surely he has A class already.
On October 11 2010 16:49 JWD wrote: GSL needs seeds so freaking bad.
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
Oh my bad bro.. you know more about sc2 preach on
Haha!
There are more people that failed to advance that I wanted to see in GSL, JulyZerg being one of them.
Sad to see Tester get knocked out, really wanted some good protoss to go far and that is one out...
But like others have said already he was beaten 2-0 by another good player, i read that first game was marine+banshee and no idea about second. Either way, from what i understood in the live report thread he did not loose to cheese, he just faced another really good player who had practiced a lot and was well prepared with good BO's he had prepared based on the matches in GSL S1 (not against Tester specificly but against top P's).
The best will prevail, and for this day, this game, Tester was not the best.
Wow do any of you know how he lost, and to who ? i can't believe tester lost... Now what are the chances of a Protoss getting to the semi finals? I'm guessing very little... .
Nice! Tester's been sitting on the tip top too damn long I think it's softening him up. He definitely could have played better against ITR and now that he's failed to qualify for the RO64 he should have a spark lit under his ass for next season. Tester mops up gsl season 3!
If anyone thinks open style tournaments and having no seeds are such great ideas, you should petition MLG to do the same.
Half of MLGs invitees haven't accomplished anything in the SC2 scene, yet they get invited because of some past accomplishment.
I know the first 3 seasons of GSL are basically qualifiers, but GSL would benefit much more if they just invited a bunch of "established" pros from the scene just like MLG does.
If MLG had some type of nationwide online qualifier for their MLG events, I doubt a fraction of their invitees would even qualify.
On October 11 2010 17:33 BookII wrote: Greatest Hope for Protoss now? Maybe oGsInca. Hopefully Huk can give toss a chance at GSL3. Still go Inca
Also say Inca so far, are some other Protoss players that did okay in GSL1 but not sure any of them will go further in GSL2. Thinking about LegalMind, sanZenith, ZanDarke, HongUnPrime, KeepingWeRRa.
Hoping to see one of the "new" qualified P's will show some good play.
On October 11 2010 17:39 gozima wrote: If anyone thinks open style tournaments and having no seeds are such great ideas, you should petition MLG to do the same.
Half of MLGs invitees haven't accomplished anything in the SC2 scene, yet they get invited because of some past accomplishment.
I know the first 3 seasons of GSL are basically qualifiers, but GSL would benefit much more if they just invited a bunch of "established" pros from the scene just like MLG does.
If MLG had some type of nationwide online qualifier for their MLG events, I doubt a fraction of their invitees would even qualify.
Why do you think "GSL would benefit much more" from seeding players?
On October 11 2010 17:39 gozima wrote: I know the first 3 seasons of GSL are basically qualifiers, but GSL would benefit much more if they just invited a bunch of "established" pros from the scene just like MLG does.
But then if you win Open 1 you get x points and a seed into Open 2 to win more points. But if you win Open 3 you get just x points. How is that fair? You want Open 1 to be more important than Open 3? Why? Or should you get more points for Open 3?
The only elegant way to do it is to have a level playing field after every Open finishes. If Tester and other 'big names' are so good, why can't they just win?
Also, Boxer, Nada, July, they all couldn't play Open 1. So they already have limited odds. If people automatically seeded into Open 2 there will be less spots. That means people that now qualified had to eliminate each other. How is that helping big names? it is just protecting no-names that got famous in Open 1 because they got lucky and less people played compared to Open 2. If you allowed seeds then Open 3 may get largely irrelevant. If 32 people scored points in Open 1 and Open 2 then you basically need to win Open 3 to get S class if you haven't any points yet because you started later.
These tournaments create big names. Having a big name in SC BW doesn't mean anything in SC2.
On October 11 2010 17:21 ParasitJonte wrote: Well it's a fact of PvT at the moment. Terran is really strong early and early mid. That's how he lost to intotherainbow.
There's like no protoss hero... Too much focus has been on fixing ZvT. Nobody seems to care about the horrible PvT early game.
QFT
Sucks to see him go :/ TOP as well...oh my gosh...I want replays now to see how these guys lost
On October 11 2010 17:34 PhoenixM1 wrote: Nice! Tester's been sitting on the tip top too damn long I think it's softening him up.
lol what did Tester achieve AFTER release?
seriously, how can you say Tester's been "sitting on the top" when he hasn't really dominated anything since sc2-release; I'm a huge Tester fan and - exactly the opposite - I am of the opinion that he would deserve to be "sitting on the top" finally
losing in Ro8 GSL 1 and know not even qualifying is very unfortunate for a player of his format, he deserved to to better
On October 11 2010 17:39 gozima wrote: If anyone thinks open style tournaments and having no seeds are such great ideas, you should petition MLG to do the same.
Half of MLGs invitees haven't accomplished anything in the SC2 scene, yet they get invited because of some past accomplishment.
I know the first 3 seasons of GSL are basically qualifiers, but GSL would benefit much more if they just invited a bunch of "established" pros from the scene just like MLG does.
If MLG had some type of nationwide online qualifier for their MLG events, I doubt a fraction of their invitees would even qualify.
Why do you think "GSL would benefit much more" from seeding players?
For the same reasons MLG does it in NA. More viewers. Just look at the netizen explosion on the Korean forums when BoxeR qualified. Having that one guy qualify is sure to increase viewership by a tonne.
Imagine MLG holding some type of qualification round with a crap tonne of no names making it. Do you think their viewership numbers will increase from it? Probably not.
E-Sports isn't very different from traditional Sports. We have teams we cheer for and favorite players we cheer for too, so seeding them would benefit everyone.
On October 11 2010 17:34 PhoenixM1 wrote: Nice! Tester's been sitting on the tip top too damn long I think it's softening him up.
lol what did Tester achieve AFTER release?
seriously, how can you say Tester's been "sitting on the top" when he hasn't really dominated anything since sc2-release; I'm a huge Tester fan and - exactly the opposite - I am of the opinion that he would deserve to be "sitting on the top" finally
losing in Ro8 GSL 1 and know not even qualifying is very unfortunate for a player of his format, he deserved to to better
I am also a Tester fan. I don't mean Tester wins all the events and terrorizes everything but he's generally thought of as the best Protoss player. I just mean that maybe after being slapped down before ro64 he'll be getting real serious for this next season. I'm assuming that he came to this season unprepared, I really don't see how a player of his caliber could have lost pre-ro64 otherwise. Then again, maybe this guy who wiped him out is going to dominate the whole thing, we never know.
On October 11 2010 18:11 PhoenixM1 wrote: I am also a Tester fan. I don't mean Tester wins all the events and terrorizes everything but he's generally thought of as the best Protoss player. I just mean that maybe after being slapped down before ro64 he'll be getting real serious for this next season. I'm assuming that he came to this season unprepared, I really don't see how a player of his caliber could have lost pre-ro64 otherwise. Then again, maybe this guy who wiped him out is going to dominate the whole thing, we never know.
Tester was really bummed after losing to ITR according to some comments here around, and he also sounded very determined to do "better" (!) in GSL 2 - he wasn't satisfied with GSL 1 and I'm sure he practiced very hard for GSL 2
how he could lose? because the game is new, and because terran has a crap-load of timing pushes and I'm guessing not even half of them are discovered yet; polt showed us how it's done; take one week to think about and practice a timing push nobody has ever done before - then play it and own because there's no way your opponent can learn to adapt to it in the break between game 1 and 2; it was said flint used banshees and marines at least in game 1 - timing-pushes around these two units are currently created with much creativity, I wouldn't be surprised if flint came up with a variation Tester simply hasn't seen before...like the Polt-Prime-play just delayed enough to work stim in....but then again that's just pure speculation
On October 11 2010 16:44 sLiniss wrote: Nothing to be ashamed of if the games were legitimate. I'm kinda looking forward to see how Kim Byung Jun plays.
He will play like DAVIT in GSL1 - quit half way into the game in R64
On October 11 2010 16:44 sLiniss wrote: Nothing to be ashamed of if the games were legitimate. I'm kinda looking forward to see how Kim Byung Jun plays.
He will play like DAVIT in GSL1 - quit half way into the game in R64
huh? i don't know what games you are talking about. DAVIT pwned nexgenius with proxy in Ro64.
Why is everyone demanding Seeds? Its not like the top players have to play each other in the qualifiers (with 1 or 2 exceptions). It in fact definitely looks like they seeded the top players apart. Tester got a zenith user in his qualifier and failed to beat him in a format which is exactly the same as the main tournament uses, so I don't see anything wrong with it.
It's Tester's fault for switching to a team where he has too few trainings partners. If he really lost to a marine banshee rush he lost to a obsolete strategy (but maybe he didn't have someone to show him the counter),
On October 11 2010 19:17 alkampfer wrote: Cool, the GSL winner, has spoken. TvP is imbalanced atm in terran's favour.
Read his last interview.
according to blizzard, protoss are beating terran at all skill brackets in ladder.
Protoss are winning more in lower leagues only. And frankly i prefer giving credit to a progamer opinion than blizzard opinion.... Especially after i saw one of their "balance team" employee match history.
He was bronze 1 v 1 gold 2 v 2 diamond 3 v 3
How they can balance a game with so little experience in 1 v 1 ?
On October 11 2010 19:17 alkampfer wrote: Cool, the GSL winner, has spoken. TvP is imbalanced atm in terran's favour.
Read his last interview.
according to blizzard, protoss are beating terran at all skill brackets in ladder.
We're above ladder rankings this is the top .0000001% of players pushing the game to its current known limit. In that; Terran is still extremely dominant.
I thought he wanted to be called sSKS now or is everyone just sticking with tester? sucks he was eliminated, seeing how he was one of the strongest players of the first GSL.
GSL seasons 1 through 3 are basically qualifiers for an even bigger GSL event next year, it's pretty logical they aren't seeding for a tournament that's basically meant as qualifier. sSKS lost in these qualifiers, what makes people think he wouldn't lose as seeded player?
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
If I recall, the point of these first three GSL seasons is to decide who gets seeded in the later tournaments, reread the original announcements--something like the top 4 or top 8 of each season gets seeded in their 4th month league.
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
Your argument is terrible. -Players use strategic play (note the lack of pejorative "cheese" appellation) -I am not a fan of strategic play ---Therefore, GSL 'needs seeds'
This should be exciting, a new player rises. Its the second GSL ffs. Tester is by no means a demigod or someone whose absence should sadden anyone.
Flash used to get hated on for his eliminate-the-bonjwa strategic play before he was a star as well.
On October 11 2010 19:42 TBO wrote: Why is everyone demanding Seeds? Its not like the top players have to play each other in the qualifiers (with 1 or 2 exceptions). It in fact definitely looks like they seeded the top players apart. Tester got a zenith user in his qualifier and failed to beat him in a format which is exactly the same as the main tournament uses, so I don't see anything wrong with it.
don't understand this "wtf why wasn't he seeded?" either
tester had to play a very good but not very well known player and lost; it wasn't like he lost vs clide, check, inca, fruit, top, ITR, maka, etc; I mean, you couldn't possibly seed players like flint too...eventually players like tester will face players like flint, and tbh tester really must beat them if he wanna keep his status as #1 protoss...
- The most difficult game ▲ hard to the last finals, but had met in their first game at the end of the Terran player and elrijeon (guess this one is tester) luckily nothing memorable though.
just remembering this is a google generated translation and not a real one
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
Remember when Best proxy DT rushed some poor terran on Fortress in the proleague playoffs (don't remember who) and the media called it "strategic play?"
On October 11 2010 16:49 JWD wrote: GSL needs seeds so freaking bad.
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
Remember when Best proxy DT rushed some poor terran on Fortress in the proleague playoffs (don't remember who) and the media called it "strategic play?"
On October 11 2010 19:17 alkampfer wrote: Cool, the GSL winner, has spoken. TvP is imbalanced atm in terran's favour.
Read his last interview.
according to blizzard, protoss are beating terran at all skill brackets in ladder.
Protoss are winning more in lower leagues only. And frankly i prefer giving credit to a progamer opinion than blizzard opinion.... Especially after i saw one of their "balance team" employee match history.
And BoxeR just said he can't understand why they're buffing Zerg since they just won GSL.
Progamers are pros at playing the game, not balancing it.
On October 11 2010 19:17 alkampfer wrote: Cool, the GSL winner, has spoken. TvP is imbalanced atm in terran's favour.
Read his last interview.
according to blizzard, protoss are beating terran at all skill brackets in ladder.
Protoss are winning more in lower leagues only. And frankly i prefer giving credit to a progamer opinion than blizzard opinion.... Especially after i saw one of their "balance team" employee match history.
And BoxeR just said he can't understand why they're buffing Zerg since they just won GSL.
Progamers are pros at playing the game, not balancing it.
This. Most korean progamers do WHATEVER it takes to win. They would never say "my race is op" because that could lead to a nerf which in turn would reduce their chance of winning . They became pro's because they have this mindset. Winning is ALL that matters. Flash and JD, two of the most succesful players have almost cheesed in all BOx's. And I love that mindset. At the very top playing anything pro is all about winning and doing whatever makes your chances of this the highest. This is also why I love watching "cheese" or strategic play.
On October 11 2010 17:27 Meriones wrote: This is the tournament to determine seeds. That's why no one is reseeded. If they were reseeded then winning Open 1 gives a huge advantage over winning Open 2. That's extremely silly.
SC2 has a lot of luck and divergence. This is why Elky quit WC3. It is a new game, which naturally has this. But SC2 is also designed to be this way. When you try to focus a lot more on decision making rather than mechanics you get people that accidentally make the right or wrong decision. You can't accidentally have good mechanics.
And don't give me the 'if SC2 is so easy then why aren't you winning SC2' line. If SC2 is so easy, then why did Tester lose? Because the game is easier for everyone. That's the point. That's why inferior players win more often. And that's why it doesn't feel good stealing a game off a better player or winning vs a inferior player by dodging cheese/luck.
And Tester won points already. Maybe not enough for S class, but no one knows how the point rating works. Surely he has A class already.
So Elky quit WC3 because of the luck factor and then switched to Poker?
Btw i dont understand why people are so surprised when a very good player loses to another (very) good player. No one here saw the games but most people posting here just auto assume cheese or imbalance or luck (due to low skill cap). Well maybe Tester had a bad day or his Opponent had a good day (or both). Maybe his Opp is even better than him. Its too hard to say what caused the loss especially if we didnt see the games. Either way SC2 certainly has some luck factor (its not chess) but so has every sport and its good it is so because it would be totaly boring otherwise (if the better player always wins, why bother watching the games? we would already know in advance who wins). This innate luck factor (that is bigger today than in a couple of months/years because the game is still new) is also the best argument for not having seeds in the first couple of tournaments. Because otherwise the guys who were lucky in GSL1 would profit from it. Allowing seeds after 3 open tournaments is better because you will have a bigger samplesize to determine the skilled players from.
Those Terran timing pushes are a beast to deal with against protoss. Anyway the GSL is what I use to analyze the balance of the game. I think zergs will do well this season, and protoss will suffer. More reason for me to rage at blizzard if patch 1.2 dare's to nerf toss in any way.
On October 11 2010 16:49 JWD wrote: GSL needs seeds so freaking bad.
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
It was 2-0, and by the hundreds of posts on the other thread, didn't look like it was cheese, instead it was really smart play and smart studying.
I'm pretty sad that nobody is going to give this guy any credit for taking out tester, instead they just blame it on cheese/luck.
I'm with iNcontroL. The game is so new that nobody can ever be guaranteed to qualify, tester, cool, etc. included. Anyone can lose, and today, it was Testers day to lose.
I don't use cheese pejoratively (about Fomos maybe, not about the player who defeated Tester). Also I am obviously uninformed, that's why "probably". I'll take your word on the posts in the other thread and stand corrected. (See forr4078's post below.) Thanks for the info. The thrust of my post was that I am surprised such a solid player as Tester could have lost 0-2 straight up to an unknown.
On October 11 2010 16:49 JWD wrote: GSL needs seeds so freaking bad.
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
So depressing to hear that he didn't qualify. I agreed with anyone regarding the seeding issue, GSL definitely needs this. As for his "unique timing push" i definitely will keep a watch out. Meta game, this is what makes sc2 exciting! If he can beat tester, there is no saying what he can do. He might have research and plans for every good player.. (cue horror music).
During an interview of Kim Byung Jin done via Fomos today, Fruit dealer (a TSL team buddy) walked in on them (he was doing his own elimination round games) and said "I will get my revenge -_-+"
It will be funny to see Kim Byung Jin and Fruit dealer play each other in main rounds. lol
- 결승 상대가 ‘사기수’ 서기수였는데, 긴장되지 않았는지 ▲ 대진표를 보고 나서는 서기수 선수와 해서 완패만 당하지 말자고 마음을 먹었다. 1경기 때는 내가 주로 쓰던 안 당해본 사람들에게 잘 통하는 전략이 우연히 잘 통해 이길 수 있었다.
- Your opponent in the final round was Tester. Were you nervous? ▲ After I saw the match table, I only wanted to avoid getting steamrolled (note: the nuance is that he thought he was going to lose). In the first match I used one of my favorite strategies that works well on people who have never seen it, and luckily it worked and I won.
Sounds like an admission of cheese, not that it's a sin.
I think this is Tester's fame kind of working against him. Any well known player is also known to the other players, and I'm sure a large number of players know exactly how tester plays, and tester never really has that advantage until the tourney starts and he can prepare for specific people. So this guy probably said "Oh its tester, I can do a build to exploit how he plays!" and Tester just played as standard as usual, assuming he'd win, unknowing of who his opponent really was.
On October 11 2010 19:17 alkampfer wrote: Cool, the GSL winner, has spoken. TvP is imbalanced atm in terran's favour.
Read his last interview.
Just because cool says something doesn't make it automatically true.
The problem in PvT is that it is the only match up where somebody with noticeably lower skill can beat someone that is much higher caliber.
(ignoring mules and marauders, problems roots come from some imo overlooked gas costs of toss units/structures. For reference: watch any TvP that has a bio focus @ ~135 food each. The Terran will have usually well under 1/3 (a third) of the gas amount in army, and still be able to be equal in just a straight up fight).
- 결승 상대가 ‘사기수’ 서기수였는데, 긴장되지 않았는지 ▲ 대진표를 보고 나서는 서기수 선수와 해서 완패만 당하지 말자고 마음을 먹었다. 1경기 때는 내가 주로 쓰던 안 당해본 사람들에게 잘 통하는 전략이 우연히 잘 통해 이길 수 있었다.
- Your opponent in the final round was Tester. Were you nervous? ▲ After I saw the match table, I only wanted to avoid getting steamrolled (note: the nuance is that he thought he was going to lose). In the first match I used one of my favorite strategies that works well on people who have never seen it, and luckily it worked and I won.
Sounds like an admission of cheese, not that it's a sin.
This just shows that the game is new and there are a lot of hard hitting timing/all in pushes that are being discovered. These players probably won't make it to the Ro16 but they can take out some big names in prelims and Ro64 if the build is poorly scouted or confusing enough.
The last cast by HD about theWind getting hurt by a Raven opener seems like that as well. TheWind scouts, prepares for banshees and then gets surprised by ravens and doesn't seem to know what to do about it.
I bet tester lost to a Marine/Banshee/Raven timing push. The only known way to beat it is the very risky Stargate into fast phoenix's first and hope the terran is bad enough to let his banshees die without marine support.
But this is only the begining because phoenix are worthless vs Marine and im 70% sure that PDD cancels out Phoenix fire as well you need something to deal with the Marines because gatway doesn't work, especially if PDD is canceling all your stalker shots and marines have combat shield + stim. Colossus or Psi storm is required, but if the terran gets a Raven and his marine upgrades and attacks your base before you have a tier 3 solution to mass marine your screwed basically. Also your kind of forced into robo bay just because of the threat that he may or may not research cloak for his banshees which sucks.
Really Really sucks ass for Toss everywhere that TesteR didn't make it, would have liked to see a solution to problems that i could use... but i guess not ;(
On October 11 2010 19:17 alkampfer wrote: Cool, the GSL winner, has spoken. TvP is imbalanced atm in terran's favour.
Read his last interview.
Just because cool says something doesn't make it automatically true.
The problem in PvT is that it is the only match up where somebody with noticeably lower skill can beat someone that is much higher caliber.
TvZ?
I think I have seen more unexpected losses from Z versus T than any other matchup. Most of these are due to some timing push or all in (mostly 1 base) that was not scouted or misinterpreted. The TheWind game is one clear example, the Idra vs Silver game would be another where big names thought they were safer than they were, got hit by a 1 base push and die.
We'll all regret making this thread when the guy ends up being super duper awesome.
Tester is the best Protoss player, if not the best player period... about a month ago. Things change. Strategies change. Lets see what this GSL brings.
On October 12 2010 00:02 mprs wrote: We'll all regret making this thread when the guy ends up being super duper awesome.
Tester is the best Protoss player, if not the best player period... about a month ago. Things change. Strategies change. Lets see what this GSL brings.
There will be seeds for 2011
Wait, why will we regret this thread? This thread only exists because Tester is already 'super duper awesome' and him not qualifying is remarkable.
Sad that they dont have something like Double Elemination for preliminaries. I dont want to say that his opponent didnt deserve the win (he does deserve it) but I honestly doubt there's no weaker player than sSKS in the RO64.
Main problem for me is I have no protoss left to cheer for Any suggestions (dont like InCa that much)?
That's just........ messed up. I honestly cannot believe he didn't qualify, majority of the gamers were vouching come time for GSL2 Tester would be the strongest of them all. Either way I'm really disappointed, and couldn't agree more that GSL requires a seeding process.
Damn, tester my hero I had a feeling it was going to happen to someone, with more people trying to qualify, a favourite for someone was going to get this
i can't agree with seeding just because people wanted tester to be in it. he was going to deal with people like this from round 64 on, it doesn't matter if he was seeded or not. he's a known beast, he has to expect cheese way more than the average player. if he can't handle that he'll never win GSL even if he's good. this has nothing to do with seeding and people who are blaming his loss on it are just fanboys. he has to earn his way in and tester and everyone else understands that these 3 tournaments are how you earn that seed.
On October 12 2010 00:20 Zocat wrote: Sad that they dont have something like Double Elemination for preliminaries. I dont want to say that his opponent didnt deserve the win (he does deserve it) but I honestly doubt there's no weaker player than sSKS in the RO64.
Main problem for me is I have no protoss left to cheer for Any suggestions (dont like InCa that much)?
nexgenius was dealt the same fate as tester was in GSL1 but he's the the second best imo, better than inca. i'm surprised protoss players don't really know him that well, because i do and protoss is only my off-race.
I'm assuming Testers loss was to some kind of cheese / strong timing push. TvP is favored for terran at the high level imo in that P needs to scout better then T as T has a much more versatile army. T opens marine/marauder and is safe vs anything (if the map doesnt favor voidrays especially) whereas P has a more difficult time knowing what to do without getting a observer.
I constantly feel like this format just sucks. If two good players get paired up very early, it's done... I fail to see why they don't get placed in groups like the MSL... 4 players per group, player a plays player b, player c plays player d. Two winners play, winner of that advances. Two losers play, winner of that plays loser of winners game. Do that for ALL qualifications... And once you reach Ro16/32 do the OSL style, everyone plays everyone over a couple days. Ro8 up is single elimination.
Just my format idea, I think that's what hurting Gom the most. And sad to see tester not make it
On October 11 2010 23:54 SaDGoWu wrote: I bet tester lost to a Marine/Banshee/Raven timing push. The only known way to beat it is the very risky Stargate into fast phoenix's first and hope the terran is bad enough to let his banshees die without marine support.
But this is only the begining because phoenix are worthless vs Marine and im 70% sure that PDD cancels out Phoenix fire as well you need something to deal with the Marines because gatway doesn't work, especially if PDD is canceling all your stalker shots and marines have combat shield + stim. Colossus or Psi storm is required, but if the terran gets a Raven and his marine upgrades and attacks your base before you have a tier 3 solution to mass marine your screwed basically. Also your kind of forced into robo bay just because of the threat that he may or may not research cloak for his banshees which sucks.
Really Really sucks ass for Toss everywhere that TesteR didn't make it, would have liked to see a solution to problems that i could use... but i guess not ;(
Yeah I've been scouring replay sites and watching korean streaming in hopes of seeing a P actually beat that build, not been able to find it yet. There's probably a counter somewhere, but if these "unique timing pushes" are beating people like Tester, then it might be a while.
The format is OK, in my opinion. The first three GSLs are going to be used for seeding, in a sense (code S and code A designations). Having a few, big open tournaments is the best way to decide on the designations. It's not the optimal way to run a league (since players who certainly deserve to be in the main tournament will get knocked out), but this isn't really the way the league is going to be run in the future.
I think that SC2 is in a crap shoot phase, has been in it since it was launched (as every new game) and will be for the short time still. It's getting better each day but random shit will still win games.
I am gonna be so mad if Kim Byung Joon won with some dumbass all-in and he gets knocked out due to low level play. not that cheese is dumb or anything. Just angry that everyone misses out on tester's epic games over that scrub's... FAWK
why should GSL seed scrubs who can't even qualify? this should really be a thread for why DAVIT failed to advance. now that's something worth discussion and also legitimately sad.
On October 11 2010 23:54 SaDGoWu wrote: I bet tester lost to a Marine/Banshee/Raven timing push. The only known way to beat it is the very risky Stargate into fast phoenix's first and hope the terran is bad enough to let his banshees die without marine support.
But this is only the begining because phoenix are worthless vs Marine and im 70% sure that PDD cancels out Phoenix fire as well you need something to deal with the Marines because gatway doesn't work, especially if PDD is canceling all your stalker shots and marines have combat shield + stim. Colossus or Psi storm is required, but if the terran gets a Raven and his marine upgrades and attacks your base before you have a tier 3 solution to mass marine your screwed basically. Also your kind of forced into robo bay just because of the threat that he may or may not research cloak for his banshees which sucks.
Really Really sucks ass for Toss everywhere that TesteR didn't make it, would have liked to see a solution to problems that i could use... but i guess not ;(
Since the first three GSL Open tournaments are meant to seed the 2011 GSL, it would be patently unfair if they seeded GSL 2 based on GSL 1 results, since that would make it significantly easier for the seeded players to earn more points in GSL 2, etc.
Yeah, I agree with seeds completely it makes much more sense. I am sad to see tester go, but this is part of qualifiers (I feel maybe he could have had some mental block in his interviews he seemed overwhelmed by Hopetorture so maybe he thinks PvT is a really hard m/u)
As had been said, GSL 1, 2 and 3 are designed to give every player the same opportunity to earn their seeding for the tournament proper which starts in 2011. Seeding players for arbitrary reasons (e.g. they were good in Sc1, they did well during the beta) defeats the purpose of this entire process.
But don't worry Tester fans, his quarterfinal appearance in GSL1 should be enough to get him at least an A-Class rating so he'll certainly get a pass into the tournaments next year.
On October 11 2010 16:58 devolore wrote: I think it's interesting how many are immediately jumping to blame the GSL format or assume that the opponent cheesed. Tester's a high-quality player, no doubt, but it is too much to entertain the possibility that maybe Kim Byung Jun is just better?
It is. GSL1 had several large upsets in the early rounds - where the winner went on to play really poorly.
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
Note: "cheese" not used to blast Tester's opponent. A win's a win duders.
Not sure, Tester is like the ultimate anti-cheese.
On October 12 2010 07:29 NoiSeN wrote: Ki Su* not Gi^^
In Korean there isn't a distinction between these 2 sounds.
On October 11 2010 16:49 JWD wrote: GSL needs seeds so freaking bad.
On October 11 2010 16:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kinda the nature of SC2 atm. Stuff is new so if something relatively new comes around and a P player is playing trendy (tester is uber this way) it can get exposed.
I highly doubt that this is about "the nature of SC2" or exposure of Tester's "trendy play". Probably just cheese or, as the ever-euphemistic Korean eSports media calls it, a "unique timing rush".
Note: "cheese" not used to blast Tester's opponent. A win's a win duders.
Not sure, Tester is like the ultimate anti-cheese.
The fact that his own nick is his initials, I think Seo Ki-Soo or Seo Ki-Su is best, as they match with sSKS. But what's the little "s" for?
Shame to see him get knocked out. I wonder if it was the same strat that we saw in the youtube vid (thanks for that btw), 1 medivac, 8 marines, mass ravens for autoturrets, and banshees.
On October 11 2010 19:17 alkampfer wrote: Cool, the GSL winner, has spoken. TvP is imbalanced atm in terran's favour.
Read his last interview.
according to blizzard, protoss are beating terran at all skill brackets in ladder.
Protoss are winning more in lower leagues only. And frankly i prefer giving credit to a progamer opinion than blizzard opinion.... Especially after i saw one of their "balance team" employee match history.
He was bronze 1 v 1 gold 2 v 2 diamond 3 v 3
How they can balance a game with so little experience in 1 v 1 ?
I don't think the game is as random/cheesy as people are claiming just cause Tester was eliminated. When looking at it the vast majority of players who can be considered favorites have qualified so far. The only real shocking results have been Top and Tester being out. 2 players out of 48? isn't exactly enough to say the game is all that random. There'll always be upsets here and there no matter what the format. Saying that things are looking grim for Protoss this tourney...if NexGenius doesn't qualify I wouldn't be surprised to see no toss in the round of 8 =\
Is it really so impossible that the guy who beat Tester might just be better? Just cause Tester lost doesn't automactially make it cheese or huge imbalances. I don't think I've seen anyone but the people in this thread say it was cheese. Has either player said it was cheese? How about we wait to see how this guy actually does next week?
sad to here, I was anxiously anticipating watching tester roflstomp newbs. Happens though, with this "Open" style(which i love and think is the best) good players will get eliminated.
On October 12 2010 07:30 parkin wrote: I think FlinthZenith is a pretty cool guy, eh goes banshess against protoss and doesnt afraid to take calculated risks.
There is absolutely no 'risk' involved in getting banshees against toss.
Banshees do 19 dps Stalkers do under 6 dps
You must have 2 stalkers to deal with a banshee, thats 250/100 4 supply vs 150/100 3 supply
If you already have a robo then chances are you're inbetween an expansion and hurting extremely bad for gas.
The correct 'response'/best option is to go gateway units with phoenix. But you will still be unable to deal with the number of marines+sprinkled in marauders with banshees and ravens. At a certain point gateway units (obv non-templar) cannot do anything against bio, factor in banshees and raven for PDD and its auto good game.
Basically you have to hope that your opponents micro is terrible, which at the top level it won't be. Phoenix will be in range of marines if banshees are controlled correctly, and then they will just push into your base.
hmm. don't think i'll get it now....will have to look to see if there are any other notable toss players who are legit enough to beat the terran beasts that are gonna be in this tourney....
I don't get the seed and balance discussion >< There were nearly zero upset, all big names qualified, except tester. Shit happens. And when you look at the bracket, you clearly see they have done some seeding (that or randomness was very favorable for known players)
That was his fault actually, I saw the games and he scouted the build, and didn't respond, he just stayed on 2 gates and a robo and expanded. The only thing he did to respond to this was to get canons to hold the attack but it doesnt matter when you have close to no units, he was way too greedy, 5 stalkers won't stop this kind of push.
On October 12 2010 11:51 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote: The fact that his own nick is his initials, I think Seo Ki-Soo or Seo Ki-Su is best, as they match with sSKS. But what's the little "s" for?
I'm surprised that Tester couldn't make it through, but at the same time he's already made it far enough in S1 to qualify for a seed in GSL 2011, so it will definitely not be the last we see of him. On the other hand I'm somewhat glad that players who did really really well in S1 are getting knocked in S2 preliminaries I'm a big fan of Tester and really would have liked to see him in there, but at the same time I can't help but think that if many quite good players from S1 didn't make it to S2 that the overall level of skill is improving. S2 will be even better than S1.
don't get me wrong, tester has insane micro and multitasking, but his decision making is below his skill level. not surprised by the news. and pvt is hard right now
On October 13 2010 00:19 cArn- wrote: That was his fault actually, I saw the games and he scouted the build, and didn't respond, he just stayed on 2 gates and a robo and expanded. The only thing he did to respond to this was to get canons to hold the attack but it doesnt matter when you have close to no units, he was way too greedy, 5 stalkers won't stop this kind of push.
So it was definitely the marine/banshee/raven build then? Was that the build in both games?
On October 13 2010 00:19 cArn- wrote: That was his fault actually, I saw the games and he scouted the build, and didn't respond, he just stayed on 2 gates and a robo and expanded. The only thing he did to respond to this was to get canons to hold the attack but it doesnt matter when you have close to no units, he was way too greedy, 5 stalkers won't stop this kind of push.
So it was definitely the marine/banshee/raven build then? Was that the build in both games?
EPT
211 - 174, 54%
![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/i76c1f.gif)
GSL won't be as fun without him
