EPTBlizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 81
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xs101
Romania86 Posts
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
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Gimpb
293 Posts
The toss beating T and Z in lower leagues might be more about cannon rushes than anything else. That one type of cheese is extremely prevalent there. Tweaking that should be fairly strait-forward to do if they feel it's necessary, although such changes might impact toss FEs quite a bit. | ||
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FreedonNadd
Austria573 Posts
On October 08 2010 19:27 inTheMood wrote: Hehe, well I agree that nitro nerf (req factory) is a good thing, but do you agree on the fact that barracks might need depot to be built? To me, that makes zero sence  I think that the nitro nerf is pretty ok, cause at this moment in the game you could have a unit like stalker of helion to defend against reaper, but its your fault if you don't build one. The supply depot prerequisite is imho really not necessary. They should play some rush games on steppes of war and some maps especially with a big ramp and see if they can hold of with a gold player level micro early aggression. | ||
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JXO
United States23 Posts
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ChidoriPOWAA
Sweden17 Posts
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
In team games, if you play PP , you can build a gateway in your ally's warp-field, cant you? | ||
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Riouh
Netherlands60 Posts
On October 08 2010 20:03 LittleeD wrote: In team games, if you play PP , you can build a gateway in your ally's warp-field, cant you? if he had put it this way: You do not have to build a pylon to build a gateway, he wouldve been correct. but a pylon is DEFINATELY required to build a gateway. as you will not be able to build one without having A pylon. Hence the A. | ||
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Devlin
Sweden91 Posts
Zerg Drone 50 (17 sec) Pool 200 (65 sec) --------------------------- 250 minerals (82 sec) Protoss Pylon 100 (25 sec) Gateway 150 (65 sec) --------------------------- 250 minerals (90 sec) Terran Supply depot 100 (30 sec) Barracks 150 (60 sec) --------------------------- 250 minerals (90 sec) I know the calculation for zerg isn't really accurate as you don't need to build a drone before pool. But due to you losing the drone and having to make a new one to get back to previous amount of drones - as well as lost income - I feel it should be counted, to be on equal terms after the production of the buildings. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 08 2010 20:08 Riouh wrote: if he had put it this way: You do not have to build a pylon to build a gateway, he wouldve been correct. but a pylon is DEFINATELY required to build a gateway. as you will not be able to build one without having A pylon. Hence the A. If in a game you're at a stalemate where you have a warp prism but no pylons left, will you be able to build a gateway? | ||
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TheGreatHegemon
61 Posts
On October 08 2010 20:28 Devlin wrote: Zerg Drone 50 (17 sec) Pool 200 (65 sec) --------------------------- 250 minerals (82 sec) *snip* I know the calculation for zerg isn't really accurate as you don't need to build a drone before pool. But due to you losing the drone and having to make a new one to get back to previous amount of drones - as well as lost income - I feel it should be counted, to be on equal terms after the production of the buildings. You should count it for mineral cost, but you can be building that new drone at the same time as the pool is building. Zerg pressure is 250 mineral (65 sec) Edit: That being said, I think there's far too much QQ about Depot before rax, and I play Terran. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On October 08 2010 18:25 Angra wrote: uhhhhhhh.. might as well be: "We decided to automate the openings for all Terrans to 10supply/12rax/13 gas, all Protoss to 9pylon/12gate/13gas, and all Zergs to 9ovie/14pool/18hatch in order to prevent early rushes from being too powerful. You will regain unit control once these structures are automatically built in this order." Talk about killing a game's diversity just because people complain too much... Well...honestly, welcome to the club. Zerg has so few viable builds, now everyone else might know what that feels like. EDIT: I really agree with you, I just wish that Blizz was going to diversify zerg instead of homogenizing everyone else. | ||
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Roniacz
Philippines3 Posts
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N.geNuity
United States5112 Posts
On October 08 2010 16:39 NovaTheFeared wrote: People think that because terrans go depot before rax the vast majority of the time making it a requirement doesn't amount to a big change. But it does. The threat matters more than the execution. It allows the opponent to play much greedier if rax first isn't an option, despite it being used infrequently. Think about in BW if rax required depot. The only thing stopping protoss from going 12 nex every single game was the threat of the proxy rax first. Because those kinds of greedy openings had an auto-lose % to rax first, they were done far less often than they would have been if terrans were unable to do that build. this. Also, I haven't read a ton of this thread, but in the maybe 8 or so pages I've looked at I've seen no mention of tvt. Hyperdub beat TLO with a proxy 2 rax, building the first on 8/11 supply and the second on 11/11 supply. First marine started on 10/11 and was the 11/11th supply. There are other proxy rax builds in tvt, though probably used less often. But people will still try a reaper proxy now and then. Summary: marine was started and a second barracks was building BEFORE any supply depot. Which means with this patch, none of this would happen. Starcraft has cheeses in it and it's part of the game. TvT is guarenteed to have 0 cheese early on now. Hell, your scout is basically worthless as he can't see anything. Just send a late scout to check for position; there is no reason to send a scout earlier as the 12rax builds its marine before anything tactical happens. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On October 08 2010 19:36 Aetherial wrote: I don't mind the changes except the supply depot prerequisite to build a barracks, that one just seems stupid imo. Basically it'll make reaper rushing impossible,or atleast delay it, and people who play normal wont even notice good change imo | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
I never saw a patch update being so discussed and hated ... | ||
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TyrantPotato
Australia1541 Posts
On October 08 2010 21:52 noD wrote: about 1600 posts here, 800 in eu battle.net, 3.500 in battle.net us, Do they ever read feedback from users? I never saw a patch update being so discussed and hated ... because it effects terran.... so in turn it effects 50%+ of all sc2 players. | ||
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Perscienter
957 Posts
On October 08 2010 20:00 ChidoriPOWAA wrote: Why is everyone saying that Reapers are gonna be useless now? It's like saying zerglings suck unless you six pool. I bet if Terran players explore the mid-game harass with reapers they're gonna be even more dangerous than the expected reaper rush. Speedlings hard counter slow reapers. The speed upgrade of the Zerglings usually kicks in shortly after your first 3 reapers harrassed a little bit. Early reaper openings, which involve one to three reapers at the beginning, won't be viable anymore. And how do you want to use them in the midgame? Protoss might have chargelots, stalkers, colossi and/or phoenixes. Zerg will have roaches, infestors and/or mutalisks. TvT almost always involves tanks and marauders, maybe banshees, too. Even if you perfectly hide reapers from the enemy, which is highly improbable, you'd have to sneak them into some enemie's base without encountering any of his main forces, because anything can hard counter them. | ||
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Mastadon6900
United States46 Posts
But seriously, as a zerg player, I see no reason for Terran to have to build a depot before a barracks. | ||
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RedHelix
250 Posts
I'm wondering if someone could explain the depot before barracks complaining to me though, i used to play terran before zerg and depot before barracks never really affected my wall-in's and the only time i would go barracks before depot was to perform some kind of proxy cheese or to fend off some lulzy tactics in 2v2's | ||
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