|
On a sidenote, to all the people whining REAPERZ GONNA BE USELESS NOW... I've seen a high level T (was it SeleCT or Fenix? was streamed and commented on by Trump) use reapers vs P in MIDgame. Very potent harass, I must say. He controlled them well and kept his opponent on his toes. Neither does this require a starport, nor do you risk losing your medivacs, which you would if you were doing a hellion drop. On top of this, reapers are more mobile.
And I've seen autoturret harass used to exceptional effect by top players. Neither autoturret nor midgame reaper harass is particularly effective against Protoss outside of the occasional surprise attack or fluke, as they require a significant investment in terms of build time/economy and are easily countered by a handful of inexpensive units.
Stalkers utterly destroy reapers. +1 range roaches will destroy reapers. Marauders destroy reapers. All of these are staple units in XvT builds, and all will be on the map before a reaper ever arrives in their mineral line thanks to the proxy nerf. That being the case, the reaper has no dependable role in the game outside of scout, as hellions will be better for worker harass and stimmed marauders will be preferred for sniping buildings and dealing with defenders. Sure, you may see reapers used in these roles occasionally, but they're less than optimal when compared to the alternatives terrans have at their disposal. It's like landing vikings for harassment when you could build banshees instead.
All that aside, my concern is not that reapers are being nerfed out of all high-level play (even in 1.1 they're largely redundant with hellions, and hellions have a better transition against Zerg), but rather that Blizzard apparently wishes the unit had never been in the game at all. If the rest of the game design is as ad hoc as these proposed changes seem to be, we have a right to be legitimately concerned about the game's future. Removing the proxy rax is as insane as robbing Protoss of the ability to cannon rush or Zerg to six-pool--these have been aspects of StarCraft gameplay for more than a decade, and now one is being tossed aside out of concerns over 2v2 balance. It's hard to believe that they'd do something so dramatic and bizarre.
|
oh
my
god
I LOVE THIS!!!!!! ^_________________________^ all around good changes. I'm not sure if fungal preventing Blink is necessary -- perhaps at higher levels than what I play at -- but the Nitro Pack nerf is *awesome*
|
I like the +range on roaches. They are weak to defend against 4gate push because of force fields and they are totally outranged by hellion/reapers : they are a really frustrating unit without their speed upgrade.
This will maybe help to win some battles against colossus without ultralisks 
The barrack nerf is strange because +1 range on roaches could change everything against reapers.
I guess it's a change for team games.
|
I'm loving the range on roaches except I'm kind of worried they'll be too good now. I wouldn't mind them throwing in a third unit or making hydras more usable but adjusting the cost. I find roaches boring to use and boring to watch. BTW I wish this was in the sc2 general forum I had to find it by searching for a closed thread that was in that forum earlier and mod linked to this. I didn't even know this forum existed until now but I found the link in the op to be pretty informational.
|
I seriously doubt many of these changes will see the actual patch, and if they do they'll likely be accompanied by a ton of other changes that make judging them quite different.
I dislike supply required for rax though, it just seems so arbitrary and takes away from strategic plays.
|
YES! Blizzard finally listened to our prayers. Thank god. Zerg will not be as UP, infact, this might turn this around. We'll have 2 wait and see. Thank u blizzard.
|
reapers are super easy to counter... and now no ones gonna go rax / reapers...
i feel like banshee and vikings need to be nerfed instead
and protoss needs nerf... terran is good as is atm..
|
|
|
All blizzard is doing with this patch is utterly shattering build diversity and unit diversity, roaches no longer are a unique unit if they basicly are just an anti everything version of the marauder. it wouldnt be os bad if they made it a researchable upgrade but having it inherent is awfully uninspired. Reapers are already on the brink of pure novelty, i hate it when they have stuff like this in games its like the dam magikcarp of starcraft now with no gyarados evolution. and to top it off they want to constrict terran even more by utterly limiting their early build order. i geuss they think if one build order is good enough for zerg why not force terran to only have 1? Just foolish blizzard has to be trolling or they utterly failed as game developers in submiting to whiny zerg intimidation. this only reduces strategic diversity, it does not enhance it. and i was just starting to see zergs not fast expand into mass expand every game too...
|
Wow, Roach range is really interesting. It might create quite a lot of EZ builds for zerg.
|
On October 08 2010 15:42 GathFox wrote:
All blizzard is doing with this patch is utterly shattering build diversity and unit diversity, roaches no longer are a unique unit if they basicly are just an anti everything version of the marauder. it wouldnt be os bad if they made it a researchable upgrade but having it inherent is awfully uninspired. Reapers are already on the brink of pure novelty, i hate it when they have stuff like this in games its like the dam magikcarp of starcraft now with no gyarados evolution. and to top it off they want to constrict terran even more by utterly limiting their early build order. i geuss they think if one build order is good enough for zerg why not force terran to only have 1? Just foolish blizzard has to be trolling or they utterly failed as game developers in submiting to whiny zerg intimidation. this only reduces strategic diversity, it does not enhance it. and i was just starting to see zergs not fast expand into mass expand every game too...
how the hell are roaches anti-everything? they're still countered by units that do bonus to armored like stalkers and marauders.
And lol @ making it an upgrade.
Roach speed = upgrade
Roach burrow = TWO FRIKKEN UPGRADES
I don't think we need a 4th upgrade for a single unit do we?
|
Just like how Zerg players were accused of being QQ'ers for just about everything, now every Terran player is coming out of the woodwork doing similiar QQ'ing with all their l33t TheoryCraft. It's nice seeing the twist of the crying.
It was mentioned in the article that there are other changes included. So maybe they're going to change a mechanic of the Reaper to adjust? Maybe a change to Mech or Toss or something else Zerg?
It's so funny that requiring a Supply Depot limits OMG-SO-MANY builds.......... Toss have to build a Pylon just to build their first building. You can build Barracks wherever you want. I see no problem. Hell, I wouldn't mind if Blizzard required an Ovi before a Pool if they wanted to eliminate all of the stupid early rush tactics.Terran players still have stupid amounts of viable combos and tactics. Requiring a Depot beforehand only puts a dent in their overall pool of usable strats and brings them in line with other Races.
Frankly though, I'll wait till the actual patch comes out or more notes are released before posting my own full opinions on what they've done. Until then I get to watch verbal Terran players become the very verbal Zerg players they so hate.
|
Terrans early game becoming either one dimensional or completely reactive... welcome to zerg land ^_^. Im happy they are trying this stuff out... im not sure if everything will work, but im happy theyre trying.
|
On October 08 2010 14:44 Losticus wrote:
Predictably, the QQers are giddy, proving they were never concerned with balance so much as nerfing Terran to smithereens for reparations over their perceived victimhood. They cried, and cried, oh and cried some more -- and Blizzard is forced to submit to appease the Zerglings. Nevermind the hilarious statement before the patch notes: "While the evidence doesn't really support this, we feel, and the community feels, that Zerg is UP."
For game designers to ignore the facts and go on "feelings" alone is absurd -- but even worse was what was coming.
This over-nerf and over-buff will destroy the game's balance. Terran will be unplayable. Yeah, I know "revenge" will be sweet for a while -- but balance changes this drastic is going to have catastrophic implications.
Meanwhile, Protoss continues to quietly rape humans with hardly a notice...
Wow....a reaper speed nerf and depot before barracks will make T unplayable. I've heard it all now. Maybe it wasn't the greatest change to have depot before barracks but wild exaggerations like some of these posts are just as bad if not worse. T become unplayable? Seriously?
|
To all the terrans complaining about depot before barracks, welcome to toss build orders. Every game is the same untill after you get your cyber core up, unless you want to screw yourself over by 2 gating in which case you still need to make a pylon before gateway.
|
<--- Terran player.
Roach range: Good! Zerg really needed a better ranged early game unit to battle the stalker/marine/marauders as well as giving them more options for mid/end game.
Reaper nerf: Eh? Not that reapers are widely used atm anyway since helions often do the harass job better, so i guess it won't affect gameplay that much. But really, whats the point with them at all now? Maybe making one as a scout/picking off enemy scouts early game, and thats about it.
Supply/Rax change: Hmmm, maybe terrans had a bit too many too good cheese openings (proxy reaper, proxy marines, proxy marauder, bunker rushes) so if that would've been the point I could have understood it. But they changed this because of reaper?!!? What? While it seems stupid, I guess it might lower the amount of cheese you bump in to a bit, which I guess is good. Will have to wait and see what I think about this.
Fungal and zerg building buffs seems reasonable too.
|
On October 08 2010 16:02 Logros wrote:
To all the terrans complaining about depot before barracks, welcome to toss build orders. Every game is the same untill after you get your cyber core up, unless you want to screw yourself over by 2 gating in which case you still need to make a pylon before gateway.
So when will Terran get chronoboost and warp in units at a depot? The same patch that will give Protoss some Mules? awesome!
What do you mean that will never happen because Protoss and Terran have different macro mechanics?
|
On October 08 2010 16:10 Ganso wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2010 16:02 Logros wrote:
To all the terrans complaining about depot before barracks, welcome to toss build orders. Every game is the same untill after you get your cyber core up, unless you want to screw yourself over by 2 gating in which case you still need to make a pylon before gateway. So when will Terran get chronoboost and warp in units at a depot? The same patch that will give Protoss some Mules? awesome! What do you mean that will never happen because Protoss and Terran have different macro mechanics?
bunkers are unlocked with your equivalent of a gateway and its repairable. stop whining you can put way more pressure on early. once marauders are unlocked (only takes a tech lab) you have instant map control because nothing either race can do about concussion.
the reaper nerfs are fine and will only really be noticeable in 2v2. any 1v1 standard build order is supply before rax anyways so that doesnt even count as a nerf. cant understand why so many are complaining about it. the delayed reaper speed sucks, but is still possible.
|
Some building requirement for void ray please, so we actually can see it coming, also buff them so they still warm up if change target
|
there are more changes next patch.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
